Dr Strangeglove - bombing sequence - realism

[tartare]

Just watched this classic for the first time last night (I have to confess).
What a great film on so many levels.
The procedures used to go to war (opening of safes, handing out of sealed envelopes, arming sequences) seemed very realistic.
I've read that the interior of the B52 was in fact still classified at the time so Kubrick recreated it from one photo they had.
I wondered how accurate the sequences for arming the bomb etc were though?
The various switches etc that were shown in some detail seemed to all be the right sort of thing one would run through, air-burst, altitude etc - and were shown in some chilling detail.
I assume it is all declassified now - was it realistic?
Even more remarkable considering how secret a lot of this stuff must have been at the time.

Edited:
I note this from 1961 ten years later:

First and foremost, B-52G aircraft power must be applied to the weapon via two crew members using the Aircraft Monitoring and Control System and a specific voltage and amperage (and for a specific amount of time) before the Ready/Safe Switch could be rotated to the "Arm" position.

The pilot of the bomber aircraft controlled power via his T-380 Readiness Switch, which was safety wired and sealed near his seat in the aircraft. The Radar Navigator could monitor the bomb's circuits via the DCU-9, but he could not arm it without electrical input via AMAC nor consent from the pilot. The aircrew, in two physically separate positions in the aircraft, had to perform at least 19 steps from their checklist before nuclear weapons could be pre-armed and dropped.

[27mm]

Interesting query - would also like to hear the same for the movie "By Dawn's Early Light".

[cornish-stormrider]

Gents, you want the accurate hot poop.
read "The Goldsboro Broken Arrow" by Joel Dobson.

this gives you everything - and will probably scare the crap out of you too.

I wont give away any spoilers but - holy ****......

[sandiego89]

Given the slip stream, I don't think Major Kong would have been able to stay on the bomb as he rode it down :E

[500N]

tartare

Interesting what you say about the 19 steps.

As per above, read up about Goldsboro.

[uffington sb]

I don't know about how real the bomb sequence was, but the shadow of the B-17 when they were flying low over Siberia (?) wasn't :O

[tdracer]

Given the slip stream, I don't think Major Kong would have been able to stay on the bomb as he rode it down :E
I don't know about hanging on to the bomb, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been able to hold on to his hat :E


I love that movie - there are a few of us at work that often quote lines from the movie. Just saying "Now Demetri" is often enough to break the tension and start the laughter. :}


BTW, a little trivia for you - when Kubrick started making the movie, it was intended to be a serious movie (not unlike "Failsafe", which came out at pretty much the same time). But as he got into the production, Kubrick apparently decided he couldn't do it as a serious movie and changed it.

[Stendec5]

Part of the great Slim Pickens pre-attack procedures included a contents check on the Survival Pack, this included, inter alia, "3 lipsticks and 3 pairs of nylon stockings." They covered all the angles in those days.
Peter Sellers accent as the wheelchair-bound Dr Stangelove with his (still) Nazi
right arm Heiling away was just wonderful
Absolute classic from start to stop.

[Willard Whyte]

Part of the great Slim Pickens pre-attack procedures included a contents check on the Survival Pack, this included, inter alia, "3 lipsticks and 3 pairs of nylon stockings."

- one .45 caliber automatic
- two boxes of ammunition
- four days concentrated emergency rations
- one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleepin' pills, tranquilizer pills
- one miniature combination 'Rooshan' phrase book and Bible
- $100 dollars in rubles
- $100 dollars in gold
- nine packs of chewin' gum
- one issue of prophylactics
- three lipsticks
- three pair of nylon stockin's

Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

[ORAC]

UAeqVGP-GPM

[MAINJAFAD]

Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff..

The Vegas in that line was redubbed before the film's release, as the original filmed line was "a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff". Then just before the film was due to be released, Kennedy was shot. Slim Pickens wasn't the original Major Kong either, Peter Sellers had that role, but broke his leg and couldn't get into the B-52 set. The B-52 cockpit was based on a few photos from magazines and was designed by Ken Adam, a former RAF Pilot and the man who did most of the James Bond sets. Rumour has it was it was very close to the real aircraft in a lot of respects. Other people in the B-52, the voice of Scott Tracey from Thunderbirds (Shane Rimmer) who was the Co-pilot, and voice of Darth Vader was one of the Navigators (James Earl Jones).


"Mein Führer! I can walk!"

GiwKb-x7wXQ

[tartare]

Interesting r/e Goldsboro.
From what I can see, latest info seems to suggest in fact it wasn't close to going off at all.
See here (http://nuclearweaponsaccidents.********.com.au/).
That's where I got the 19 steps passage from.
Strangeglove is a great film.
I'm a bit slow on the uptake.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here; this is a war room!"
:)
Very droll.

[500N]

Tartare

Link doesn't work.

[cornish-stormrider]

is that latest info from the vestiged interest?
I need to reread but IIRC there wrere two real opposing schools of thought on it.

what I do know is - a damn scary time and I'm much happier living now than then. I rewatched "threads" earlier - and it still doesn't make for peaceful thoughts.

260 megatons - thats what they gameplayed fell on Blighty, enough to turn it into one big radioactive puddle.

time for a new rule - if the pollies want to go to war, they get to do it, thunderdome style.....

[Boudreaux Bob]

"The Goldsboro Broken Arrow" by Joel Dobson.

One set of Interlocks was it?

I was living close enough to Goldsboro area to have had a real interest in that event. Fortunately, we were up wind far enough we would have been out of reach of the immediate effects had one of those Cookies gone off.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/usaf-atomic-bomb-north-carolina-1961

[Yamagata ken]

My understanding is the B52 interior was modelled (guessed) on the B29 layout, plus some creative stuff. I may be wrong. Also, I may have some faults, but being wrong isn't one of them. :)

[AtomKraft]

I think at one point our gallant Captain selects 'essential power' on his OHP.

I thought that indicated some research had been done.

Wonderful film, Mein Fuehrer.

[ORAC]

Ref Goldsboro bomb - it couldn't have exploded even if the circuit had been made, as the thermal battery hadn't been activated and there was no power to activate it. See previous thread here;. (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/524012-possible-nuclear-accident.html#post8059175)

[Tankertrashnav]

I read that the reason Peter Sellers broke his leg was falling off the bomb onto the studio floor in an early rehearsal of the final scene.

The choice of Slim Pickens as a late replacement for the Major Kong was inspired. Apparently he turned up at the studios in England dressed in cowboy boots, hat, etc and somebody commented - "He's in his costume already" to which the reply came - "No, thats the way he always dresses!"

[Rev1.5]

How did the arming sequence on our V Force compare with the "19 steps"?

[teeteringhead]

And the "War Room" was made up too......

...... don't know what there really is (or isn't) but apparently Ronnie R wanted to see it when he became Pres, and was disappointed with the reality ......

[VinRouge]

Apparently Gen. Curtis le May was a key real life figure that Gen Ripper of Dr Strangelove was based upon.

A great book on the era, politics and the reasons behind the space race is:

http://www.amazon.com/Fiery-Peace-Cold-War-Schriever/dp/B0040RMF98

Also goes into detail about the sort of character Le May was; a downright nasty piece of work suffering from the sort of megalomania that any senior officer needs to avoid.

[cattletruck]

And the "War Room" was made up too......

Life imitating art. Silly company I once worked for responded to a government tender to build one in Canberra, I even made a referral to this Dr Strangelove movie.

[LowObservable]

I don't think Ripper was LeMay. On the other hand, Turgidson wasn't far off LeMay's deputy and successor, Tommy Power.

Strangelove was based on the plot of a British novel, Red Alert, by Peter George. The book Fail-Safe was so similar that George sued for plagiarism (it was settled out of court) - which explains why the movies are so alike.

It's always a good sign when you can use the phrase "mutiny of preverts" and the other person gets it.

[MAINJAFAD]

My understanding is the B52 interior was modelled (guessed) on the B29 layout, plus some creative stuff. I may be wrong. Also, I may have some faults, but being wrong isn't one of them.

Why base the layout on a B-29, when a pretty close guess of the cockpit layout was published in Flight Magazine in 1957 (for the B52C). The EW/Gunner/Nav and Bombardier station instrument layout may have been based on the B-29 though. co-pilots station had a photo of it as well in the same issue.

flight oeing | drawing depicts | retroctio tte-bor | 1957 | 1684 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957%20-%201684.html)

[Stendec5]

Didn't Curt "Iron Ass" Le May actually fly combat missions as the 8th AF was building up to full strength in the ETO? That would have been interesting if he'd been shot down and taken prisoner.
Did Bomber Harris ever fly combat missions WW2?

[PapaDolmio]

Didn't Curt "Iron Ass" Le May actually fly combat missions as the 8th AF was building up to full strength in the ETO? That would have been interesting if he'd been shot down and taken prisoner.
Did Bomber Harris ever fly combat missions WW2?

Not in any account I've ever read. I don't think he visited many bomber stations either.

[MAINJAFAD]

Very sight differences in the point of Harris and Lemay's careers in 1942, like 23 years (Harris did Lemay's early WWII levels in WW1!!!). Harris quite rightly though that most airmen would rather he didn't piss them about during their off duty time, because he wasn't going to do it while they were preparing for the next raid.

[Boudreaux Bob]

LeMay very much did fly Combat Missions during WWII.

He started on B-17's in Europe, then B-29's in China-Burma, then headed up the B-29's out of the Pacific Islands, then later went on to organize the Berlin Air Lift Operations before becoming SAC Commander ultimately winding up as Air Force Chief of Staff.

One might note he was quite right in his opposition to the Air War Strategy during the Vietnam War.....although he found himself on the wrong side during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Say what you will, but he was very instrumental in the creation of the US Air Forces Nuclear Deterrent Forces being an early advocate of Missiles as well as Manned Aircraft.

He was controversial to say the least but then most Men of his position were.

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/airforce/p/lemay.htm

[Tankertrashnav]

How did the arming sequence on our V Force compare with the "19 steps"?


Our resident V Force bomb aimer seems to be so tied up with MH 370 on R&N that he may not have noticed this.

We need an answer Pontius Navigator!

[ScrewballScramble]

Well considering our system starting off by the PM using the AA radio network to issue his launch command, everything's going to be downhill from there on compared to the Americans I'm sure!

[Yellow Sun]

How did the arming sequence on our V Force compare with the "19 steps"?

Not dissimilar but can't say that I ever actually counted them. That is based upon experience with both UK and US weapons.

YS

[Rosevidney1]

The nickname Iron Ass was bestowed on Major General Ira Eaker of 8th AF fame.

[VinRouge]

Say what you will, but he was very instrumental in the creation of the US Air Forces Nuclear Deterrent Forces being an early advocate of Missiles as well as Manned Aircraft.

he tried to bury the icbm programme, favouring the Strat bomber force... not sure you an say he favoured the icbm, as bernie shreiver and ageneral Power werre the key proponents.

[Boudreaux Bob]

Some background to the Manned Bomber Program of the USAF.

Post WWII, the Department of War and Navy were replaced by the DOD. Massive budget cuts necessary to return to Peace Time levels caused a severe fight between the Military Services.

After it was all said and done, with the Korean War turning some political positions upside down, we wound up with the current organization and array of weapon systems.

When missiles came along we saw a smaller but just as serious conflict between the Navy, Air Force, and Army over who would control the Missiles.

The is still an ongoing peeing match between the Air Force and Army over Fixed Wing Aircraft and CAS missions.

Revolt of the Admirals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Admirals)

[Landroger]

I like the scene in the war room, where everyone is looking glum and serious and George C Scott is asked if the B52 stood any chance of getting through - meaning it would be bad news. Then the Scott character loses it and sticks his arms out and gets all enthusiastic;

"You gotta remember its a big bird and ........"

Oh and the other one is Mandrake ordering the Sargent to shoot the cocacola machine to get change to call the whitehouse;

"Well okay, but you gotta answer to the Cocacola Company!"

Roger

[BEagle]

I'm sure that 'General Jack Beringer' in the movie WarGames was also based on LeMay.

Some excellent quotes in that movie - I liked the General's succinct summary of the ridiculous 'WOPR' automated ICBM launch system as explained to its designer McKittrick:

General Beringer: "Mr. McKittrick, after very careful consideration, sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new defense system sucks."

McKittrick: "I don't have to take that, you pig-eyed sack of ****."

General Beringer: "Oh, I was hoping for something a little better than that from you, sir. A man of your education."

:ok:

[India Four Two]

but the shadow of the B-17 when they were flying low over Siberia (?) wasn't

Canada, standing in for Siberia

The choice of Slim Pickens as a late replacement for the Major Kong was inspired.

He had never been out of the States before and didn't have a passport! The producers had to obtain one on a rush basis.

[Landroger]

The choice of Slim Pickens as a late replacement for the Major Kong was inspired.
He had never been out of the States before and didn't have a passport! The producers had to obtain one on a rush basis.

"Wun, check; two - Packs 'prophylactics!"

Inspired is the word.

Didn't the 'Airplane' movie people pull the same B17 shadow gag? Sometimes it was a 707 shadow with B17 sound and sometimes a B17 with jet sounds?

Roger

[Party Animal]

Roger Roger (couldn't resist it ;))