Helicopter shot down near Sloviansk

[Fareastdriver]

BBC News - Ukraine army helicopter shot down near Sloviansk (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27618681)

I think that the 'pro Russian rebels' have made a big mistake.

[Ronald Reagan]

Some of the sights coming out of eastern Ukraine are horrific. Kiev should halt all military operations immediately.

[Stupidbutsaveable]

Dead from the National Guard. That'll be Right Sector in uniform then. The whole situation is a tragedy; just wish our free and impartial media would report both sides of the story.

[melmothtw]

Some of the sights coming out of eastern Ukraine are horrific. Kiev should
halt all military operations immediately.


Some of the sights are horrific Ronald, but this wasn't a fight of Kiev's making.

Seeing as you brought up horrific images, just be sure you're seeing what you think you're seeing from your Russian news channels. In what can only be described as cynicism of the highest order, Russian media is posting images of atrocities carried out in Syria (by a regime that Putin supports) which it is saying are being carried out by Kiev.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u613/Melmothtw/BovVo66CYAEScxN_zpsae02266e.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/Melmothtw/media/BovVo66CYAEScxN_zpsae02266e.jpg.html)

[Lonewolf_50]

BBC News - Ukraine army helicopter shot down near Sloviansk (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27618681)

I think that the 'pro Russian rebels' have made a big mistake.
Looks like they hit what they were aiming at.

[AnglianAV8R]

"just wish our free and impartial media would report both sides of the story."

Shirley thou doth jest ? Or perhaps it was irony :ok:

[rh200]

Some of the sights coming out of eastern Ukraine are horrific. Kiev should halt all military operations immediately.

Yes and Putin should stop sending Cossacks, Chechen terrorists, and Russian special forces to keep things stoked up.

It amazing that even the so called Russian separatist leaders even admitted that they where sending the bodies of the fighters that died at the airport back to Russia.

Goes to show how much support they have that they need to import the majority of their fighters in to support their cause.

[melmothtw]

34 Russian fighters being repatriated back to the Motherland. No mention on Russian news.


A Coffin Convoy to Russia - The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/29/a-coffin-convoy-to-russia.html#)

[Phileas Fogg]

As someone that has visited, and occupied time in, Ukraine some dozen or so times, and a family of common law "in-laws" there, I can assure all that pretty much all of Ukraine would just love to join the EU to relocate to the land(s) of milk & honey which normally involves traveling to a country who's capital is London :)

Never mind the others but 10% of the former population of Lithuania are now resident in UK, gawd knows how many Polish are in the UK but it's significant, and I used to joke with my ex that if Ukraine was ever to join the EU it would become deserted ... With a smile she 100% agreed.

The everyday language in Ukraine is Russian, sure in the west of Ukraine they like to speak Ukrainian just like in the west of UK they like to speak Welsh, but even the east of Ukraine long to be in the EU so all this "nonsense" going on is the work of a madman in Moscow infiltrating it with his military personnel.

Putin quoted he had the right to go in to Ukraine to protect those who spoke Russian ... the whole damn country was forced to speak Russian until the demise of the USSR in 1989 ... Do England have the right to go and invade any country to protect those who speak English which just about covers every country in the world?

Putin is full of excreta :)

[Ronald Reagan]

I have some friends from the east of Ukraine, they have very different views from those in the west of the country. They tell me they would prefer to be closer to Russia but not part of Russia. They do not wish to be part of the EU at all. They also were totally against the protests and coup in Kiev.


Putin is doing the right thing here. It is indeed a shame the USSR broke apart, hopefully he can attempt to rebuild at least parts of it.
The EU would have never been able to expand as much if the USSR and Warsaw Pact had still existed and Washington would not have been able to be so aggressive. The main thing though is we would have had balance in this world.

[melmothtw]

Putin is doing the right thing here. It is indeed a shame the USSR broke apart, hopefully he can attempt to rebuild at least parts of it.

The mask is slipping by degrees....

[Ronald Reagan]

It was far better back then melmothtw, far better for us in the west and for them in the east. We had balance. I think a permanent state of détente would have been the best outcome.


We may have to rely on the Russians in the end to put a stop to the EU. The soviets defeated the Nazis and maybe, just maybe the Russians can save us from the EU!

[melmothtw]

Yep, things were so good for the folks in the east that there was no need to build a wall to stop them from leaving.

And comparing the EU to the Nazis? Only an idiot would do such a thing.

[Lonewolf_50]

Mel, not as big of a reach as you might suspect.

The tyranny of a extranational monetary regime versus the tyranny of a bankrupt ideology.

The Third Reich versus the Fourth Reich (as I have seen it describe in a variety of places) using "other means" to exert political control and influence, that "other means" being finance/economic.

Granted, the latter is a far less malignant form of overlordship, and maybe that difference is sufficient to argue a different case.

[Ronald Reagan]

I like this idea of a wall! Shame we could not put one up around Britain right now!


The EU is yet another attempt by a group of people to rule this nation! It is a major threat to the future of this country. We must leave it and also ensure the EU ends up being broken to free all of Europe.

[melmothtw]

Sorry Lonewolf, but it is a massive overreach to liken the EU to the Nazis. The EU is not an "extranational monetary regime", as evidenced by the fact the the UK retains the pound. The nations that chose to adopt the Euro were not forced down that road.

Far from being a 'malignant overlord', the EU is a democratic body which (if the British politicians are to be believed) we can choose to be a part of or not when a referendum is held.

The EU is far from perfect, but in its defence I'd say it is probably the reason why its members have not had a war since 1945.

[Lonewolf_50]

Not the Nazis, the Third Reich. There was more to it than the political party in control. The entirety of German industry/finance was an imbedded part. I find it an error of classification ot narrow down your assessment of that version of German empire as "the Nazis."

Mel, I admit to conflating the "Euro monetary union" with the EU, but you would not have the former without the forms of the latter.

So I was being a bit sloppy.

The EU is far from perfect, but in its defence I'd say it is probably the reason why its members have not had a war since 1945.
Horse****. You had forty years of occupying powers in central Europe keeping a lid on such things, as well as a tangible threat/concern to unite against, which was the malevolant power to the East. Your EU/continental security and stability was a direct result of occupation and support from the US of A and to a lesser extend, the French and the Brits.

[Ronald Reagan]

melmothtw, the EU has not prevented war in Europe at all. The things that prevented war in Europe are the USSR and USA along with the concept of mutually assured destruction. There was no way that in the cold war the Soviets or Americans would allow European nations to be so silly again. The danger with the Soviets gone is that one part of that ''peace maker'' is missing but a resurgent Russia can take its place and also act as a foil to Washington on some issues. The EU can only taking credit for ruining this once great nation.


The EU has come close to causing a war with its dangerous policies of expansion.


Farage: EU to blame for Ukraine crisis - YouTube (http://youtu.be/09jHEGKyd-M)

[melmothtw]

So we have one poster saying that life in the USSR was great and that it should be brought back, and another saying that the Third Reich was nothing to do with the Nazis?

In PPRuNe land, black is white and up is down.

[rh200]

We may have to rely on the Russians in the end to put a stop to the EU. The soviets defeated the Nazis and maybe, just maybe the Russians can save us from the EU!

There really needs to be a p!ssing your self laughing icon for statements like that.

Save you from the EU, you don't have to be in it. The only thing to be afraid of is freedom. Their a bumbling mob of politicians.

Ronald, could you at least try and put something constructive forward instead of blind propaganda.

And as for the eastern Ukraine, none of the independent polling has supported any separatism for the eastern parts.

[melmothtw]

Horse****. You had forty years of occupying powers in central Europe keeping a lid on such things, as well as a tangible threat/concern to unite against, which was the malevolant power to the East. Your EU/continental security and stability was a direct result of occupation and support from the US of A and to a lesser extend, the French and the Brits.

melmothtw, the EU has not prevented war in Europe at all. The things that prevented war in Europe are the USSR and USA along with the concept of mutually assured destruction. There was no way that in the cold war the Soviets or Americans would allow European nations to be so silly again. The danger with the Soviets gone is that one part of that ''peace maker'' is missing but a resurgent Russia can take its place and also act as a foil to Washington on some issues. The EU can only taking credit for ruining this once great nation.


2012 Nobel Peace Prize - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Nobel_Peace_Prize)

[500N]

melmothtw

As though that is an endorsement !

The Nobel Peace prize lost all cred when they gave it to Obama.

This just proves they are out of whack !

[Phileas Fogg]

I lived in all three of the BENELUX countries over a period of 6 years and, particularly in Luxembourg where 40% of the population were foreigners, the biggest joke was the UK and it's "Island Mentality".

Reading through this thread need I say more? :)

[melmothtw]

So you don't feel Leymah Gbowee (peace activist responsible for leading a women's peace movement that helped bring an end to the Second Liberian Civil War in 2003), Tawakkol Abdel-Salam Karman (Yemeni journalist, politician and senior member of the of Al-Islah political party, and human rights activist), Ellen Johnson Sirleaf (President of Liberia. She served as Minister of Finance under President William Tolbert from 1979 until the 1980 coup d'état), Liu Xiaobo (Chinese literary critic, writer, professor, and human rights activist who called for political reforms and the end of communist single-party rule), and the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons are worthy winners 500N?

Yes, I am aware that the thread drift has now reached epic proportions.

[Tourist]

Being laughed at by Benelux is hardly the worst thing in the world.
Clowns are supposed to laugh, surely?

[Ronald Reagan]

The junta in Kiev have no right to do what they are in eastern Ukraine. They are criminals who stole power and ousted the legitimate President in a western supported coup. The day will come when the people of Ukraine realise how bad the EU is and will rise up once again and return to the Russian fold. You wait and see! When austerity bites they will rise up! Maybe the pro western junta will put down the uprisings in a very brutal way with no noise from western governments at all, just like they are doing to the poor people in the east of Ukraine right now.


The one mistake Yanokovych made was to underestimate the power of the west, when he said no to the EU they were enraged that anyone would dare say no to them so had him ousted in their little coup. In their position of supreme arrogance no one dares to say no to them. But one day maybe the people of Europe will hopefully wake up and say no to the EU once and for all.


Russia and Putin are allies for an independent Britain outside the EU. That's why he has my support, we need him to grow stronger for that dream to be realised. The ultimate aim has got to be to make Britain great again.

[melmothtw]

Ronald, could you at least try and put something constructive forward instead of blind propaganda.





The junta in Kiev have no right to do what they are in eastern Ukraine. They are criminals who stole power and ousted the legitimate President in a western supported coup. The day will come when the people of Ukraine realise how bad the EU is and will rise up once again and return to the Russian fold. You wait and see! When austerity bites they will rise up! Maybe the pro western junta will put down the uprisings in a very brutal way with no noise from western governments at all, just like they are doing to the poor people in the east of Ukraine right now.


The one mistake Yanokovych made was to underestimate the power of the west, when he said no to the EU they were enraged that anyone would dare say no to them so had him ousted in their little coup. In their position of supreme arrogance no one dares to say no to them. But one day maybe the people of Europe will hopefully wake up and say no to the EU once and for all.


Russia and Putin are allies for an independent Britain outside the EU. That's why he has my support, we need him to grow stronger for that dream to be realised. The ultimate aim has got to be to make Britain great again.



Er, I guess not.

[Ronald Reagan]

melmothtw, why would anyone wish to change the Chinese political system. The communists have done a great job ever since Deng Xiaoping took over. They are another country we can do business with in a big way once we leave the EU. We could be their main ally in the region if we wished. They are likely to be the leading nation on Earth in the future and able to offer us far more than the failing EU!

[melmothtw]

melmothtw, why would anyone wish to change the Chinese political system.

Maybe you should ask this fella.


http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u613/Melmothtw/t01_90605094_zps35a929b2.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/Melmothtw/media/t01_90605094_zps35a929b2.jpg.html)

[Ronald Reagan]

Yanukovych Blames Poroshenko for 'Bloody Firework' After Ukraine Election


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/yanukovych-blames-poroshenko-for-bloody-firework-after-ukraine-election/501189.html

[Ronald Reagan]

Mel, I could put plenty of photos on here of people killed by western regimes but I won't bother. China is I think the greatest nation on Earth and they are the greatest people.

[k3k3]

Send us a postcard when you get there.

[barnstormer1968]

Ronald Reagan Mel, I could put plenty of photos on here of people killed by western regimes but I won't bother. China is I think the greatest nation on Earth and they are the greatest people.

That is one of the most memorable posts I've read this year.

While it is true that evil and despotic leaders such as Hitler ordered the death of their countries or political/ethnic enemies, it always amazed me how Stalin could order the deaths of many millions of his own people and still have his picture posted everywhere as a hero..............and the population went along with it.

I am not convinced on the greatness of the Chinese though. Due to the number of state sponsored executions there must either be loads of bad Chinese people, or a bad regime !

[dead_pan]

Judging by his/her rather single-issue posts, I think we can safely say that Mr Reagan is what is termed a "Putinbot" or "Kremlinbot" on other on-line discussion forums. Usually, if their posts are ignored, they tend to lose interest and go away.