Prince William for Air Ambulance?

[whoateallthepies]

William eyes new job in the sky | The Sunday Times (http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1414770.ece)

Interesting?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...

I do hope he enjoys doing all of those exams ....... :hmm:

[Harry O]

Good question. Will he sit the 14 exams to carry out the commercial role, or just one being ex mil?
More news on the subject.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/prince-william-job-air-ambulance-pilot-113110195.html#tQJV8m1

It will be be a nightmare for his protection team. How will they follow him or will he be given a sidearm to carry with him while landing at HEMS jobs which haven't been cleared for royalty arriving?

Not a job for royalty given the current threat levels in the UK.

Prince Andrew drives his own range rover through London fitted with blue lights and sirens while visiting hotels with his entourage in tow in a second car.
I counted a team of 10 with him the last time I saw he screeched to a halt while calling at the Dorchester Hotel for tea.

Maybe he applied though their vacancy page ;)
http://www.eaaa.org.uk/about-us/job-vacancies/

[Mechta]

A royal aide said: “The duke is fully committed to his foundation and charities, but he feels he has not yet got flying out of his system.

If he's anything like that other well-known rotary winged East Anglian, Ken Wallis, that could take some time...

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Ananke, are you an ex UK Military pilot. Prince William is!!!

Credit where credit is due both the princes made the trade. ANANKE, did you.

DB

[Sloppy Link]

There is no longer the mil bridging package of one exam so he will have to sit the lot. CAP804 part O lists the exemptions he has, in simple terms, he can go straight to exam with no formal training (gutsy) and likewise for his LST. His rating, if he is going for a type he flew in the military, again, he can go straight to test. You gotta love EASA.

[jayteeto]

I heard that they did make the grade, plus he would have to pass line training and regular examination in role. You sound very bitter with that last statement. Must have been a HUGE potato to make that chip for your shoulder......

[Harry O]

I agree with Ananke, its not as though he needs the money when there are other pilots needing a job.

I can't see it happening with the royals security side of things. It would make it very easy for a terrorist bunch to cause a crash knowing WilliaM would be on duty wouldn't it, and who is going to protect him... the paramedic who is on his knees dealing with a patient?

Its got to be a non starter before he ever climbs into the red 135 or will a police helicopter be following him to every HEMS job with his protection team?

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

ANANKE if you think everyone should be treated the same I agree!
So apply to the the RCB and pass.

Then attend RMA Sandhurst and pass the 12 month (9 month in my day) course to become a commissioned officer. Let me tell you there are no easy rides on that course.

Then apply for flight training. Pass the selection. Survive the 1 year attachment in the teeth arms. Join the Army Pilots course. Survive every single sortie where you are only two rides away from the chop.

Then tell me you think we are all the same!

It is not very often that we look back and feel pride in what we achieved. But those of us who have trod the same path as Prince William and Harry, who needed gainful employment, take our hats off to those two lads who did it voluntarily, with a smile on their faces, when they were already rolling in clover.

I spent three years as an regional Air Ambulance Chief Pilot. If the system can protect him, I salute Williams efforts to promote the cause and serve the public because the wages in that role suck.

ANANKE I agree with the 212 man. Your name, and more importantly your attitude is fodder for cocky rhyming slang

If you want to be part of the club do the the course and make the grade. If not show some respect for those that have!!

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

ANANKE. Maybe you are just not a Royalist. Please forgive those of us who are and accept your comments are extremely offensive to many who respect those two lads!

DB

[Tango123]

I can't see it happening with the royals security side of things. It would make it very easy for a terrorist bunch to cause a crash knowing WilliaM would be on duty wouldn't it, and who is going to protect him... the paramedic who is on his knees dealing with a patient?

Its got to be a non starter before he ever climbs into the red 135 or will a police helicopter be following him to every HEMS job with his protection team?


I agree, its a showstopper.... Not sure if William consulted his security about the subject before having it released to the media.

[Sloppy Link]

Harry O, there's a thought, put him in an NPAS cab. Simples.

[Thomas coupling]

Well, well he has followed thru on what he said he would do...good luck to him.
Ananke:
He will not be allowed ANY short cuts by EASA in qualifying for his CPL(IR). Rest assured.
He has 1000 PiC. Because I was there.
He will fly an air ambulance because he is capable and qualified to do so.
He will get preferential treatment in jumping the waiting list because he is an exception - he is going to be our future KING.
Would you turn down the future king and tell him to get back in line - of course not. It is a win win for all concerned.
If you don't like it - go live in Eastern Ukraine and kick off there sonny. Be grateful he doesn't do what these other countries do and assert his authority and walk into the job without quals - because he can :ugh:

Christ - you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, eh?:=

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Holy crap TC - we are on the same page for the first time. Good to meet the real you at last!

DB

[Thomas coupling]

Calm down - it's only a minor aberation DB, it won't last :ok:

[Bravo73]

Will he be then required to join the waiting list, like everybody else?


What waiting list? BAS are currently short of about 10 pilots at the moment.

I'm sure that they would welcome someone with his sort of SAR background.

[jayteeto]

Bond are constantly looking for the right pilots, ex mil or not. They have high standards, trust me on that. If you are good enough and have the right attitude, you will be joining a great company. They expect 100% from you and I recently discovered that they will back you 100% in times of trouble.
Why can't ANY pilot go part time??? This is 2014, not 1914 for gods sake. If I line checked any staff member, they would either pass or fail using my single scale of requirements. Their background would not matter. If William gets an AA job, he will do it on merit. If he uses his position to get the 'interview'..... So what??? I got a mate to put my CV in, hundreds of other pilots have done the same. Good luck to him, I am told he is a capable, charming young man.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Jayteeto Amen to all you said. There are no hiding places in the cockpit of a Police or HEMS helicopter. Also Kate could be the nurse......think on!,

[rotorspeed]

As usual TC is bang on with this one, as is DB. It would be wonderful if Prince William was to join the air ambulance. And apart from anything else, I suspect that the huge positive PR for air ambulance services that would result from this would generate a significant hike in the donations upon which the services rely. And that Ananke, might just result in more jobs for you to apply for - though whether you'd get them with your chippy attitude is another matter.

[skadi]

... or will a police helicopter be following him to every HEMS job with his protection team? No need for a police helicopter, his brother will do the escort job with an AH-64 Apache :E:E:E:E

skadi

[aeromys]

But would he make the tea?

[SilsoeSid]

No need for a police helicopter, his brother will do the escort job with an AH-64 Apache :E:E:E:E

Not any more he won't :ugh:

In some force areas, sorry regions, Apache can already be called to assist;

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/9b71305de5726dc34db98bc1de753f7b_zpsc305edc9.jpg
This is not a pic of a recent firearms job!

He'd be better off in an NPAS a/c as another poster mentioned, as those crews don't have to land in housing estates like the HEMS a/c.

Mmm, so when the case arises where they need to, operational effectiveness would be affected :rolleyes:

Didn't someone mention a drivers job going in the NPAS thread?
His protection sidekicks could get a job as observers. Now there's a thought

Here's another thought, protection sidekicks aren't civvies ;)

But would he make the tea?

If he did, he would be letting the side down ;)
Some take great pleasure in having brews made for them by coppers, no matter what extra ingredients may be added :ok:


There is one really, really big reason why you wouldn't see 'yer mon' in an NPAS helicopter ......

[Granny]

At last a royal that obviously has a backbone and -instead of trotting around opening day care centers shagging his old girlfriends and getting drunk at the polo,he might actually contribute something to society other than fodder for the tabloids.
It won't last though!

[Rhys 01]

Good on William and Harry both have worked hard and aren’t hiding under the royal blanket. They are both doing something they enjoy and doing what most of us would love to do but will / may never get the chance too.
I'm not a Royalist but credit were credit is due, there are plenty of people with wealth and power who do nothing but take, good to see the two young royals mucking in

[skadi]

Quote:
No need for a police helicopter, his brother will do the escort job with an AH-64 Apache :E:E:E:E
Not any more he won't :ugh:


SilsoeSid, my input was a pure joke, where is your british sense of humor?

skadi

[SilsoeSid]

SilsoeSid, my input was a pure joke, where is your british sense of humor?

It's directly underneath the bit that you quoted :rolleyes:

[Filtre de fadaises]

TC & others come with the right attitude, these two brothers are boosting pride in Britain with their personable, modern & hard-working approach to their duties & destiny.

Whilst flying AA might need to be shared around for security purposes, as has been said it would raise the profile of AA-UK nicely. I wonder if flying for NPAS would improve the perception, 'cos it sounds as if they could do with a pick-up a lot more than AA!! :ok:

[Brilliant Stuff]

Just to add my 2 pennies, I have been told by people who met William recently that he is a helicopter fanatic through and through like the rest of us. I for one am not surprised he wants to return to flying. As for stealing a job, he will generate loads of jobs because he will champion our trade without even trying. What a coup it would be for the industry to have him fly with us.


As for him flying for NPAS it could go two ways either it would be a serious turnaround for NPAS and it would become the gold standard it was originally set out many many many moons ago or it goes down the swanny....

[SilsoeSid]

2nd in line to the throne, single pilot, no FDR/CVR/HUMS, you can just imagine the fallout should something happen! :eek:

[rantanplane]

Oh dear and he will be flying euro, ahem easa, uups airbus copters ? :rolleyes:
The truth is that a brilliant pilot will be flying a brilliant aircraft. A great chance that HEMS in the UK will get the attention and understanding it really deserves:D and desperately needs :ugh:

[Art of flight]

I think it's a great idea.....Royals doing their bit for a charity and helping to save lives. The worries about security are a little wide of the mark in that by the time the AA arrives at a job, local police/pcso/fire service are often at the scene if it's an urban type environment. If it's more rural (horse rider/walker/farm worker) then there's normally no Prince hating gang lying in wait for years just in case. At an outside chance there could be a set-up so jobs would need to be vetted to reduce risk and no doubt the local police force/protection officers would need to be inside the tasking loop. As for the NPAS option, why not? The only little detail there would be HRH staying out of court appearances as a witness to L@ser incidents etc.

[jimf671]

Surely the place to put him in the UK Air Ambulance scene is Helimed 2. Government contract for a start. You won't get thronging crowds of rubber neckers on the Broadford airstrip or the shinty pitch at KLB. Once his tame spooks have tried asking a bunch of crofters for photo ID a few times they'll understand how pointless it is and maybe bugger off.

[diginagain]

He should be fine, as long as he's accompanied by someone who can tell the difference between the amber and the red CWP captions.

[SilsoeSid]

diginagain;
He should be fine, as long as he's accompanied by someone who can tell the difference between the amber and the red CWP captions.

Considering that all the warnings on the 'Warning Panel' are red, and all the cautions on the 'Cautions and Advisories Display' are yellow, not to mention that these displays are located in clearly different positions ... this shouldn't be too much of a problem :rolleyes::ok:

[SilsoeSid]

Hedski;
He flew 3 years SAR and training before that. Does he have the actual hours most air ambulance operators require?


Prince William completes search and rescue tour of duty in Wales | South Wales Evening Post (http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Prince-William-completes-search-rescue-tour-duty/story-19786772-detail/story.html)

His flying career followed the path of all newly-graduated pilots, serving initially as a co-pilot before progressing through a range of qualifications to become an operational aircraft Captain on May 30, 2012.

He got a total of 1,301 flying hours under his belt in a range of aircraft, including the Tucano fixed-wing training aircraft, followed by more flying in the Squirrel, Griffin and Sea King helicopters.

During his three years of operational search and rescue flying he has accumulated 628 hours and 30 minutes flying in the yellow Sea King helicopter — equal to his fellow Sea King pilots.

During this time he spent with the service, he devoted 231 hours and 25 minutes conducting 156 individual search and rescue operations.

It led to 149 people being rescued, often when no other hope existed of extracting them safely from the situation they were in.

Seems like he has some pretty good quality hours under his belt. Although probably not 'enough' in some eyes here, but who dictates what hours are required? Besides, it would appear he is well qualified in the hours dept.

Qualifications needed to become pilot ? Devon Air Ambulance Trust Blog (http://www.daat.org/blog/what-qualifications-do-you-need-to-become-an-air-ambulance-pilot-by-senior-pilot-rob-mackie/)
or
HEMS PILOT ? Filton, North Bristol | Bond Aviation Group (http://www.bondaviationgroup.com/careers/pilots/hems-pilot-filton-north-bristol)

[diginagain]

That's alright then. :ok:

[Sloppy Link]

Bering, take him on as FO or SFO until he has the required hours/qualifications/experience for Captain, a path he has already trod in his Service career.
Look for solutions, not problems.

[MOSTAFA]

Pro tem solutions end up as permanent problems in this business.

[Sloppy Link]

No. Treading the accepted path of FO/SFO/Capt is not pro tem but is modus operandi.

(No more Latin please, I can only answer by asking my daughter to translate, my publicly approved education didn't run to the classics)

[Senior Pilot]

But would he make the tea?

Looks like he already knows how

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/royals/cms/binary/7590879.jpg?size=620x400s

[OvertHawk]

Sloppy Link - Where does the FO or SFO sit in a Single Pilot aircraft??

[SilsoeSid]

Bering, did you read the links or just pick out what you wanted to see?

SP, nice find ...
The true test of a police pilot, should he go that way, is once in a while getting through a whole set of shifts without making a brew :ok:
(1 more night to go :E )

[Sloppy Link]

Not all AA are single pilot.....although, I accept that the conversation at the moment is referring to Norfolk where that operation is solo. He goes pro tem (whoops, I meant for the time being) to a two crew operation and then goes to Norfolk. Solutions, not problems.

[Parson]

What if the worst should happen? Commercial helo ops aren't exactly up there with the most risk averse professions. How does it fit with our future King's life in the hands of a commerical operation as opposed to the military?

Not saying that standards are necessarily any different but, as we know, things happen from time to time. I'm not sure this has been thought through fully by the establishment.

[MOSTAFA]

(Post 41, 45)

Only time will prove who was right when I said. "Temporary solutions end up as permanent problems in this business" or will it just open up another can of worm for somebody else to come up with another bunch of solutions that generally never solve the problem!

Albeit, (is conjunction allowed)? Whatever he ends up doing I wish him and his very 'cheeky' lady well.

[Wander00]

Split the difference and use his experience and let him fly with the Coast Guard - the experts will no doubt have shedloads of reasons why not, so I have my battle bowler on.

[Bertie Thruster]

Perhaps he could fly with an ex 22 Sqn colleague, who happens to be a HEMS crew member, co-pilot and SIA licenced security officer? :cool:

[jimf671]

I'm sure a solution will be found.

Iain Duncan-Smith is determined to find a job for everyone who is unemployed. He is particularly keen on finding jobs for young people from families where nobody has ever had a real job.

[cyclic]

Jim, if Pprune had a like button I would have pressed it with gusto - made me giggle.

[SilsoeSid]

BBC News - MoD defends decision to put down 'William' guard dogs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24139769)

Perhaps if this AA job goes ahead, he can get some Norwich Terriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwich_Terrier), as a replacement. Apparently they are 'bred to hunt small vermin or rodents' which would sort out any paparazzi that may be around :ok:

[BolkowBill]

HRH stating an ambition to fly AA helis has already raised the profile and shows him as a future monarch with a real conscience and a sense of duty (IMHO).
However, there are a raft of practical issues with him flying an Air Ambulance in this country. All of Bond's current Air Amb operations are single pilot and, at this stage, he doesn't really have the hours, let alone command hours that would put a 'normal' pilot in the frame for a job. I accept that he clearly isn't a normal pilot but I'd question the likelihood of BAS making an exception, particularly such a high-profile one.
Someone earlier made a comment regarding the Prince's close protection; there is a spare seat in an Ec135 but this may be needed for a doctor or parent in the case of carrying a young child.
So does one of his CP guards get paramedic training as a solution? The problem there is that they will be required to attend the patient, supporting the other paramedic/doctor and that may require them to leave HRH unattended.
Also, every Air Ambulance landing anywhere in East Anglia is likely to find itself swarmed with onlookers every time it lands in the hope that they will get to meet (and probably take a 'selfie' with) the heir to the throne. Which, as those of you who have flown Air Amb will know, can be a Royal Pain in the Arse (no pun intended).
So whilst I admire his sentiment and desire and applaud the publicity that it has generated, I believe that it's simply not practical. And if it did, I DO pity the Bond Ops department that would have to try and work out a shift roster for him with the necessary flexibility to allow his Royal duties to take place. Yowch!
Nice idea though, eh?
Whoever said he take a post back in the soon-to-be privatised SAR system has probably made the most plausible suggestion.

[Harry O]

Well said Bill :D
And then theres's the insurance problem, which i bet would triple any policy requirements with someone from the royal family working for a commercial HEMS operation.
The SAR route looks a good option, as he's already trained for it.

[misterbonkers]

Perhaps Police might be more appropriate. A lot less landing out, but still good public service. Occasional Casevacs and a secure base to operate from?

[whoateallthepies]

Daily Mail today seems to think it's "Nailed on" that William will be flying for BAS in East Anglia.

[Bertie Thruster]

In that case I still think his LHS 'co' should be a combined QHI, Ex 22 Sqn RAFSAR, Ex-HEMS pilot, current HEMS crewmember and NVG tech crewman...and licenced security officer! :)

[jayteeto]

I could tick a few of those boxes, if the pay was right............:ok:

[whoateallthepies]

What's the currency/exams situation for ex-mil? Are there still exemptions? (Like wot I got back in 1979...... OMG)

[RUCAWO]

One of my friends in the PSNI is currently rated as Authorised Firearms Officer/ Medic, this cleares him to use defib , oygen and entonox with very advanced first aid/ medical trauma training, his carry bag is bergan sized. I would imagine most royal CP officers also have this training so if needed to be carried would be a lot of use at any incident. Good on William.

[Camp Freddie]

I guess I may be the only person but I think it's against natural justice that he can walk straight into this role, when it would appear that his experience would not be considered enough if he was a nobody.

[Bravo73]

****News Flash****

He's going to be the King of England. He's had preferential treatment all his life.

What's the difference now???

[homonculus]

Now mummy has bought him his own 109 he can set up his own air ambulance and ride round in a company jag :uhoh:

[Bertie Thruster]

Actually I rather suspect any Air Ambo Charity would be quaking at the thought of this. Imagine the locals response......."Donate to the charity? You must be joking! Let your new pilot pay."

[Camp Freddie]

I am sure the air ambo thing hasn't been thought through properly by a "grown up", as it presents too many problems I think, yes they could be overcome but the effort reqd is not good value I think.

[OvertHawk]

Homonculus.... Very clever of "mummy" to buy him a 109 when she's been dead for 17 years! :rolleyes:

[SilsoeSid]

Reading through a few reports recently, I picked up that it would appear that Bond are having fuel system checks on their 135's every month/50hrs and still finding problems.

Mind you, they seem to be the only operator doing these checks!


OvertHawk :D:D:D:D

[Evalu8ter]

All the pies,
Re ex-mil converting (like wot I'm doing....). Provided you've got sufficient hours (1500 hrs plus) then you need to sit all 14 exams, pass the medical and complete a TR for ATPL (H). The MCC is waived if you've flown an appropriate type, as is the IR trg if you've held a Procedural rating - you conduct trg at the discretion of your provider and do an IRT. Simples.....or B.....

[whoateallthepies]

All 14 exams! That's a bitch. I hope his nibs enjoys studying!

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Whoateallthepies - seeing as Prince William has a degree from St Andrews University and is an RAF CFS graduate I think we can be sure he will find the CAA exams not to taxing!

I wish him luck in his new career and it will definitely raise awareness for the AA and HEMS cause.

[SimonK]

Evalu8r,


Hi mate....that is great news if they waive the IR trg (if you've held a procedural) and go straight to an ATPL! Certainly would have saved me a load of dosh, I'm intrigued by this comment about 'training as required'....have you spoke to any training providers and got a firm quote on what flying they think is a valid course?

If the CAA bite on this it's fabulous news for you guys :-)

Siko

[Aussiecop]

Some interesting comments on this thread. I applaud him for his efforts. As for the security piece. He already flew rescue ops, did he have a team of protectors on those missions? (I actually don't know the answer to that, so that would be nice to have some info on). I agree with those saying he should go the police route. Met police actually only hire ex Mil guys for their pilots, so he would fit right in, as well as the protectors would already be on board and their base is already secured anyway, so that's in the bag.

If he goes HEMS, it would still be a great profile raiser for the industry and for the royals. I hope it works out for him and the HEMS industry as well, as for all the talk about hours minimums and ratings/tests. He can clearly take all of the testing, he's already done it in the military, this should be a breeze for him. The additional hours? Well, if I was the HEMS operator he chose, I'd find a way to get him the hours he needs, purely for the PR benefit (yes I know that there are pilots without jobs etc, I get it. But as a whole for the country, royals and the HEMS industry, as was already said. It's a win/win). Oh, and I'm not British or EU, so I can't be attacked as a pro monarchy type like I've seen you guys all picking at each other about :)

[whoateallthepies]

As an ex-22 Sqn and police/HEMS pilot, I also wish him luck and it is a great fillip for UK air ambulances that it seems that he is keen to do this.

DOUBLE BOGEY
Just to nit pick -"too taxing"

[Evalu8ter]

SimonK,
The policy is summarised on the BGS website here;

ATPL Distance Learning for Qualified Military Pilots | Bristol Groundschool (http://www.bristol.gs/atpl-distance-learning-for-military-pilots/)

To quote the website;

"In the case of military pilots, QMPs with more 70 hours PIC/PICUS/P1 and an unrestricted Green Instrument Rating are exempt any training requirement before the IR test is attempted, although some training would still be considered wise."

Looks like you're enjoying the new job fella....

[helispeediii]

as Michael winner used to say helispeed iii good luck to him as for exams we all passed them ??

[aeromys]

Surely this would be a security nightmare. Most Air Ambos sit outside in unprotected, insecure environments because they are not under threat, the public love them. Put a future King on board and it instantly becomes a terrorist target. And as someone already mentioned, every base, and every ad hoc landing site, would get swamped with media and public hoping to get a glimpse of royalty. Civil SAR may be a better route.

[Agaricus bisporus]

I have to wonder whether his experience is up to single pilot HEMS ops in a first job on civvy street.

[cyclic]

I have to wonder whether his experience is up to single pilot HEMS ops in a first job on civvy street.

As opposed to all the other ex-military folk who left to go straight to single pilot HEMS/police jobs. He would have flown single pilot during training in just as taxing an environment and he was a SAR captain. Just takes a little getting used to again which will take a few months but I'm sure he will cope.

[whoateallthepies]

Prince William takes helicopter rescue job a few miles from home | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699439/Prince-Williams-takes-helicopter-rescue-job-miles-home-Duke-Cambridges-new-role-allow-hands-dad.html)

Looks like he passed the interview.

[Exascot]

Has HRH got a CPL yet? Never heard of being accepted by a company without this as the minima. I wonder who his references are. Probably not what you know but who you know.

Just joking Sir, all the very best :ok:

[Thomas coupling]

Exascot: good point, Does he have a CPL(IR)?

[Harry O]

What about his protection?
Isn't he now second inline to the throne?

Are the paramedics going to be given side arms or folding stock weapons to protect him at HEMS sites, or will another troop ship or gunship be following him to every job??
Just think of the cost, it would easily pay for NPAS for a year if he has the circus following him around while doing his shift!

Its all well and good saying he's bored, but has anybody from his close protection squad had a say in it?

What happens if a local taliban branch decide to stage an accident when he's on duty. The newspapers say a few fighters have returned to these shores from the Syrian conflict.
It will all end in tears, mark my words :ugh:

[gsa]

Isn't he now second inline to the throne?

I'm sorry to have to say this but if there is an incident and he dies there is a line of succession and George will take his place.

He's more chance of getting injured riding his bike so if he wants to fly HEMS let him, and good luck to him.

[mixture]

What happens if a local taliban branch decide to stage an accident when he's on duty. The newspapers say a few fighters have returned to these shores from the Syrian conflict.

It's not like he's taken a job with an outfit in a major city .... if the Daily Wail link previously posted by someone else is to be believed, its likely to be with 'East Anglian Air Ambulance, based near Anmer Hall.' ..... I don't know much about these things but East Anglia is not exactly likely to be a hotbed of terrorism !

[SilsoeSid]

mixture;I don't know much about these things but East Anglia is not exactly likely to be a hotbed of terrorism !
Which would surely make it an ideal target, just like the Boston Marathon! or maybe closer to home, the Giraffe Restaurant in Exeter, Glasgow Airport, or Woolwich for example! :ugh:

Lets have a look and see what Norfolk Constabulary think about terrorism shall we? :rolleyes:
Norfolk Constabulary (http://www.norfolk.police.uk/safetyadvice/preventingterrorism/generalinformation.aspx)
The terrorist threat remains real and there is no room for complacency.


Seems to me that, as you say, you really don't know much about these things, besides who is to say that it would be what we think of as 'terrorists'?

Air ambulance under stone attack (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/5107236.stm)
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/231877-yobs-throw-rocks-air-ambulance-2.html

[Exascot]

Perhaps HRH Prince Harry should cover his 6 in an Apache. :ok:

[mixture]

SilsoeSid,

Thanks for the reply.... but the short and sweet of it is that Wills is a big boy, he's done the rounds in the army and SAR, he's got an army of advisers at his disposal ...

I'm sure if terrorism was a serious threat to him in his new job in East Anglia, someone would have already whispered in his ear by now !

The chap doesn't need to work for the rest of his life, and yet he wants to, and not only does he want to work but he wants to work in some of the most challenging environments there are.... I think he is to be encouraged not discouraged !

We all face risks in our daily lives and we all find our own ways to deal with it and depends on how you look at it. For example, for the Americans, they would probably consider the security surrounding the Royal Family to be incredibly lax when compared to their own president who goes around in a multi-car motorcade and takes his own cars, jets and helicopters with him wherever he goes in the world and doesn't trust anything or anyone that's not made in the USA ...

[SilsoeSid]

I'm sure your absolutely right mixy.

By the way, when you mentioned him doing "his rounds in the Army and SAR", (I assume by SAR you mean time in the RAF, as opposed to Army attached to SAR), you also forgot about his time in the Navy :rolleyes:

[Peter-RB]

It is possibly quite good for the Air Ambulance in that area, they will never be short on funds in future.

Isn't it really that Central Government should now be providing FULL costs and funding for the National Air Ambulance Fleet, after all it seems now to be an everyday service that is relied upon and definitely gives that Golden Hour ability to ANYONE who is in dire need of medical attention !

Peter R-B
Lancashire

[mixture]

you might like to watch the TV shows to see just how close the public can get to the crews.

No need ... I had front row seats on a gusty day when the blues swooped in to clear the road ahead of the row of cars I was in on a motorway to let one land so they could go scrape up the remains of a motorcyclist who was traveling in the opposite direction until one of his tyres had a blow-out (or at least that's what it looked like).

So yeah, tough job indeed and I've every respect for those who elect to take it up....

[Exascot]

...If he wants to play with helicopters

I somehow think that HRH doesn't 'play'. Next time you fly on a commercial flight would you like to think that your driver is 'playing'? T:mad:r

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Thought like in many countries, a military qualification as an operational pilot on type, allows one to apply for the civilian equivalent qualification, ie, a CPL? If so, he will then have a HCPL, but possibly as is normally the case, sans an IR or instructor rating.

[jayteeto]

He had a Mil IR, he can get a civvie IR, plus he's not low hours.
As for the crew being 'at risk', how dare you think for them. They have minds of their own; our paramedics are saying they would relish the opportunity to fly with HRH.
As for 'stealing' another CPL's job, some companies are struggling to find suitable candidates for HEMS, so forget that one.
The security issue is valid, the pilot is often left at the aircraft with full public access and terrorists could put out a false emergency, unlike RAF SAR....... Hang on a minute........ Oh yes, he's still alive.
In the past, Kings and Princes fought (and often died) from the front in bloody battles. They earned the respect of their followers. Why do you lot say that modern day royalty have to hide behind security??? If he wants to get out there and take a bit of personal risk to serve his people (selfish or not), let him do it. The people will respect him for it and his son will learn from an early age that you DON'T have to be a leech. If something does happen??? He will have known the risks, the (future) King is dead...... Long live the King.

[Exascot]

jayteeto :ok:

[SilsoeSid]

Now, who do you think has been seen at Aviation House this morning?

[SilsoeSid]

Why do you lot say that modern day royalty have to hide behind security???

Cant quite put my finger on it, but ...

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article124563.ece/alternates/s615/kate-image-1-445434911.jpg

[mixture]

Cant quite put my finger on it, but ...

Do you honestly think that many people are going to turn up when a HEMS turns up in the middle of East Anglia on a grey rainy day ? :rolleyes:

I think its obvious from that photo why extra security was required.... planned event, large crowd etc.

Surely HEMS brings an element of security in its own right ... you don't know when one will turn up and it doesn't hang around for longer than necessary because they want to get the patient back to ICU in a hurry.

And as for terrorists faking an incident, as far as I'm aware, HEMS doesn't get called out until a bunch of emergency services people on the ground have taken a look at the bodies and deemed it too much for an ambu to take care of ? So it would have to be a pretty darn realistic faking !

[Thomas coupling]

Mixture, it is not that simple unfortunately.
His 'team' will have to ramp up security @ the AA base for starters.
Secondly dependent on how many hospitals with LZ's - each of those will have to be secured everytime he flies in, methinks; because if I was Al or Dave Qaeda, I would definitely see this as a choke point and recce the area to see if I could get a fast ball in there........
Presumably the bill will go to the royal household for these "upgrades".

PB - perleeeeze leave HMG out of AA's! The ONLY reason we have so many already is because they are all self sufficient. Can you imagine the government owning the AA's? There would be a bare minimum covering the whole of England and Wales operating between 0900 - 1700 and all the staff would be on £6/hr!

There is more of a risk from him taking himself out with HEMS. You need eyes out the back of your head to fly into some of those LZ's!

[mixture]

Thomas coupling,

In one way I see your point of view, but then as one or two others have pointed out, if Al or Dave were going to take a pot shot at His Highness's chopper, surely they would have already taken the ample opportunities given to them during his SAR missions ?

Or are you saying during his time on SAR he just joined the WI and sat at the base baking cakes and making tea for the guys when they got back from a job ?

[SilsoeSid]

mixture, if people are prepared to kill themselves in the name of their cause, a serious injury is nothing if it draws the victim.

I wonder if the ground based crews will be searching the rucksacks of casualties and other members of their party before the HRH AA arrives on scene, on the fens for example. You don't neccesarily have to get HRH himself if he stays with the aircraft, just those around him. This puts a different slant on the earlier jaytee post of "our paramedics are saying they would relish the opportunity to fly with HRH."

As for your comment of "surely they would have already taken the ample opportunities given to them during his SAR missions ?"
In the words of Bronsky Beat, It Ain't Necessarily So.
Being based on an isolated secure RAF station on Anglesey, with no way of telling if he is on SAR duty or not, is a bit different to an open civilian air ambo setup.

[nigelh]

You guys need to get out more !!! God you must be bored to be able to discuss the same old points page after page .......Trust me ...it will all be fine .
He is a good pilot . No training or testing will be left out , just as it wasnt when he did SAR. He has got a team of people behind him who know what they are doing !!!!
So just chill and wait and see .

[SilsoeSid]

Blimey Nigel, what lines are you reading between?
Nobody has doubted his abilities as a pilot.

You need to chill man!

[nigelh]

I really meant the security side of his flying , not just his ability . His people will have it all worked out . We dont need to all worry ..................
yeah , im chilled :)

[misterbonkers]

haha Nigel - well said. With you on that one. This thread is starting to sound like the NPAS one! Thankfully the toddler group in my village is far more positive.

He might be taking a job but then he's leaving another one free by not doing SAR with Bristow or perhaps something else - you see at least he's willing to work and pay tax and contribute to the system - can't be a bad thing. And clearly being a pilot is his career choice and not a bad one at that. So all in all good luck to him. It can ONLY be positive for our industry and our top gun esq images (I'm sure someone will comment on the latter). Oh, and I heard Bond are struggling for good calibre pilots at the moment, several folk have been chopped and OPCs are harder than they've ever been. Plus Avincis is under new ownership and Babcock (according to an inside source who is on the lead team for the acquisition) are certainly keen to make sure there aren't anymore incidents!

Anyway, if anyone wants to escape the usual negative discussion, the toddler group is every other Thursday between 10 & 12. It costs £2.50, you don't need a current licence or type rating but you do need to be a toddler or have a toddler with you.

Good luck Captain Wales! I still think you'd enjoy Police flying more though.

Now where did I put my aviators...

[SilsoeSid]

Thankfully the toddler group in my village is far more positive.


Thank goodness for that, as I'm sure that the toddler group would have already worked out that the google street view vehicle can only go where there is access to the general public and told someone. And with that in mind lets jolly well hope that Nigel is correct when he says, "His people will have it all worked out . We dont need to all worry ............……".

Well, don't worry as long as you ignore the fuel dump right next to the air ambulance base at Norwich :eek:

[Thomas coupling]

Nigel - I don't know where you get your confidence from in this regard, but I do know that you haven't done full time HEMS and don't understand the risks associated with it either.
Forget the terrorist angle - HEMS is a minefield of aviation threats and requires the pilot to be 100% on the ball ALL the time. The industry is littered with pilot 'gottcha's'. His SAR experience will NOT fully prepare him for this because mil ops are far far more regimented and de-risked.
His PPO's will of course do their due diligence bit, but as SS said, a dummy call out could so easily be on the cards. That aside, if AQ et al really wanted him gone - then the air base is a pretty good place to start.
No-one here is stressed or OTT, buddy - we are just shooting the breeze........
chewing the cud. Are you getting your hours in - during this gorgeous weather? Any new pioneering flights on the horizon? Enjoy.

It will be interesting at scene - the pilot usually chips in as the gofor some of the time, or otherwise hangs back and lets the PM's get on with it. William is going to have to hide in the cab with his visor down mostly - if he isn't going to get mobbed by joe public bypassers taking selfies :O:O:ooh:

[nigelh]

I agree about the weather !! So nice to be able to plan trips and not have to go to plan B !! About 50 hrs in last month so lots of flying .......:ok:

[aeromys]

Security at the base could be solved by putting him on the TVACAA ambo at RAF Benson.

[SilsoeSid]

aeromys;
Security at the base could be solved by putting him on the TVACAA ambo at RAF Benson.


Kind of defeats the object of him becoming an air ambulance pilot in the first place!

[aeromys]

Well he'll just have to commute then like the rest of us.

Security could also be ensured by making all air ambo pilots wear Prince William masks, that'll confuse 'em.

[SilsoeSid]

Security could also be ensured by making all air ambo pilots wear Prince William masks, that'll confuse 'em.
:D

Only one problem with that one aeromys, all air ambo pilots would then become the target. It would be best for HRH to wear the official 'generic air ambo pilot' mask;

http://www.partysuperstores.co.uk/img/cr066.jpg

Wearing this, he would simply blend in with the rest :p;)

[Peter-RB]

TC,

Round here the AA don't fly from dusk to dawn, I still think the HMG should put something in!

PB ;)

[Thomas coupling]

that would be MONEY then!

Regards
TC

[tomotomp]

He could come and work for us operate from a secure base and generally to a secure base, but don't know were or when we are flying. (perfect)

[Cabby]

I can see the hospital security guards being given Tazers to protect him from all the selfie cameras when he lands at the hospital sites.. all alone on the pad.

Will the jobsworth's in their stab proof vests go into meltdown instead of issuing parking tickets around the hospital grounds ;)

Re the mentions on HEMS pilots who have been chopped, why have they been chopped? How have they made the opc's more difficult, just curious?

[SilsoeSid]

If HRH really wants to work out of Norwich in order to be close to home & family, why doesn't he fly for one of the many other helicopter operators there?

[jayteeto]

You know the answer to that one........ Why don't YOU do that job??????ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

A Prince 'serving the community' looks much better than a Prince working in the offshore/corporate industry

[misterbonkers]

Haha Jayteeto! Good one - bit harsh on the offshore boys though? And corporate folk don't have time for sleeping - they're too busy golfing!

Cabby - operators set the standard they expect from an OPC so they can set the standard as they see fit. Not to be confused with a PC which has different regulation for pass/partial/fail.

From a security point of view Police Ops would probably be better but it's hardly the glamorous role of a HEMS pilot (although the flying, in my opinion, is better). And he'd be potentially turning 20% of the population against the royal family ;)

[SilsoeSid]

If HRH really wants to work out of Norwich in order to be close to home & family, why doesn't he fly for one of the many other helicopter operators there?
You know the answer to that one........ Why don't YOU do that job??????ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Uuumm, because I already have a job that's close to home and family :confused:

(or did I misinterpret your reply?)

[jayteeto]

Yes you did. I think you do know what I mean. He wants to do the 'serving the people' thing, much like me and possibly you too. Whilst offshore flying is highly skilled, it is certainly more routine than HEMS flying. The future King working in the oil/gas industry is far less 'acceptable' than saving lives

[jayteeto]

I take orders from mine....... Paramedics can be scary too........ :p

[misterbonkers]

Haha good one cabby. Although one can easily get round the passenger's orders by facilitating a good bit of CRM... they are the Crew, in a Resource, and the pilot is the Management ;)

[PoloJamie]

Confirmed?
BBC News - Prince William to join East Anglian Air Ambulance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28685666)

[[email protected]]

Any comments now from the naysayers???

Excellent news.

[Pittsextra]

Further destruction of pay in the industry now he's effectively doing it for free..

[chopjock]

now he's effectively doing it for free..

Wow, does that mean if you "do it for free" you don't even have to hold a CPL?

[vfr440]

Hey Pitts, that's a bit ungracious :oh: the report I heard on BBC was that he was to donate his entire salary to the Charity. Which seems pretty generous, AND those :mad: crooks at HMRC won't be able to deduct NI and tax. :D:D


Seems like a win-win scenario to me - VFR :ok:

[Pittsextra]

Yes its was a low blow. Its a very generous gesture and I'm sure he is a super chap. Although I was making the parallel between working for charity and wondered how far that is away from those that pay for type ratings, IR's, driving down/ pressure on wages etc...

[[email protected]]

Then maybe ask what he is being paid and see if it is the industry standard - if so he is not doing it for free, he is just donating his salary.

[Bertie Thruster]

I can't fault his career path, RAF SAR to HEMS. He obviously loves rotary.

Having worked with RAF winchmen, he's bound to be able to put up with HEMS paramedics. I wonder if his crews will be allowed to 'bark' in response to any bumpy landings he might make? (barking as in 'waking the corgis').

Hope to met him in a field, next year.

(He'll easily recognise our helicopter; it's the safer to land one with no tail rotor and the simple fuel pump system.) :)

[jimf671]

Not a fan of this. The important person is the one in the stretcher and I expect that to be forgotten in many quarters.

Little chance of anything important in aviation being given weight during the next few months either.

[choppertop]

Who will be sued if he messes up and kills someone? Just asking...

[misterbonkers]

Good on William. I can only see positives for the industry as a resultof this news. You doom mongers need to try enjoying life a little more!

[[email protected]]

William and his security didn't come first when he was on SAR, the casualty did and it will be the same on HEMS.

[GreenKnight121]

Hey, chopjock - Press release (http://www.dukeandduchessofcambridge.org/news-and-diary/10780/press-release)

The Duke will begin training for his Air Transport Pilot's Licence (Helicopter) in September, which is estimated to take a minimum of five months to complete. The Duke will continue to undertake engagements on behalf of The Queen and his charitable affiliations during this time.

Training for the ATPL (H) will culminate in 14 examinations and a flight test.

After completing a mandatory period of training this autumn and winter, The Duke will start work with the Air Ambulance, based at Cambridge and Norwich Airports and flying both day and night shifts, in spring 2015. The Duke will start as a co-pilot but, after a period of training, will be qualified to fly as a helicopter commander.

So, he will do the normal training & exams, followed by normal in-flight/in-service training to pass qualifications!

[heli1]

According to the BBC he will have a protection officer with him......even when flying,but then can you believe the BBC? I think its a huge boost for our air ambulance charities,now and in the future, and hope people will let him got on with it quietly and efficiently once the hoo hah dies down.....Do you think Kate might train as a nurse?:ok::rolleyes:

[Davef68]

EAAA have an EC-145 due (*Is it there yet) which will provide some extra room for the protection officer.

[Bertie Thruster]

and they are going 2 pilot.

[The Night Owl]

Well done, definitely a positive for the industry.

Everyone I have ever spoken to with any link to William, and his younger brother, have spoken very highly of their respective attitude and abilities.

It will be interesting to see if donations to EAAA are effected and if the rate of call outs goes up.

Good luck to him:D

[serf]

How far is the commute?

[SilsoeSid]

You beat me to it serf.

The op link says;
A year after he stepped down as a search-and-rescue pilot with the RAF, plans are being drawn up for him to take a “day job” with the East Anglian air ambulance service near his country home.

Rumour now has it that the Norwich duty crew will be picking him up from 'home' and will take him to Cambridge for his shift, returning him at the end of it. I guess his donated wages will cover the cost somewhat :hmm:

'Near' by air is always closer than 'near' by road, wherever you need to commute to/from!
:E


Nice to hear that he has decided to work for them, the interview process must be different these days!

"So Mr Wales, please tell us about when you have come up against an incident involving a diversity issue and how did you deal with it?"

".........and I resolved the situation by saying, Grandfather, do be quiet!!!"
:ok:

[chopper2004]

@Jay and. Mr B,

Good luck and best of,luck - as some1 suggested this could even increase funding or attention. What better PR and combo - brand new T2 first in UK op and HRH - first time a Royal is performing public service serving the communities. The laughing joke from ma mates around here is will his presence help to lighten up the ever increasing traffic jams around our fine city in particular the Newmarket road whether it's coming in in the morning or everyone leaving in the afternoon - or maybe they will re route all traffic away.

@Jay and. Mr B,

Look at the protocol of HEMS accidents (fatalities) stateside in the last few years - the semi common opinion is that there is a strong voice or two from the back or seat beside leading to decision making process being skewered and asked to do mission impossible or be chopped. Unfortunately it ends up with all ending up chopped from this planet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EMxuO77mdQo

Cheers and all the best

[jayteeto]

????? CRM...... I will listen to your views and then do the safe thing. Chopped???? Doesn't come in to my thought processes, just do what is safe and correct.

[SilsoeSid]

There are times when only one method of CRM will produce the necessary result;

'Clough's Reality Management' :-))

fU3d-IKyiDo

[mickjoebill]

The TV and film rights to the ride-along with the future king of England reality series would be worth millions....
International sales would be enormous.
I hope the HEMS aviation community can get their cut.

A classier idea is a feature length doc, landing in confined areas would look superb on big screen.

Got to start shooting now to follow him through training.
Start training his personal protection to operate a 4k camera!

Given HEMS often land in public places, close access to HRH will be available to the paps (paparazzi). Since there is no law against photography in public places the paps will try to get close to the aircraft for a good shot of the crew. I suggest creating guidelines that would serve to remind photographers that their physical presence could interfere with the operation by delaying or distracting flight crew with checks and flight planning.
The guidelines (lets say no public allowed within xx feet of the aircraft) should be distributed to local police to prevent the local bobby from overstepping the mark in what is often an emotionally charged scene.


Mickjoebill

[misterbonkers]

MickJoeBill - hope you are keeping well! Agree with you on the filming a great series that will be sort after globally but I have to chuckle at the training to operate a 4k camera - GoPros are idiot proof...! ;)

[SilsoeSid]

The guidelines (lets say no public allowed within xx feet of the aircraft) should be distributed to local police to prevent the local bobby from overstepping the mark in what is often an emotionally charged scene.

So, how would a police officer be expected to enforce a 'guideline' against such people?

[Thomas coupling]

With his tazer of course :ok::D

Will they have the "By Royal Appointment" sticker on the side of the cab?

[Stationair8]

Prince William's long term ambition is to be SBP for the RFDS in Derby WA.

[krypton_john]

Ha ha!

I believe Catherine has vetoed that!

[heli1]

Assume the EC145T2 will be leased from Bond with crew,but when is delivery due....On contract from end March??

[Harry O]

Silsoe, I agree,
how much will the squad cost each day ferrying him back and forth? £10mill or £20m a year paying for the ten close protection cops, not including the motorcycle escorts.
Will they have another 10 cops checking and sealing the drains on route each day which is what normally goes on with a royal visit?
Its good PR for the HEMS unit, but the taxpayer is going to pay far more in the long run to protect him from the unsavoury types, and thats just travelling to the job.
NPAS will probably also be involved each day following his car. There goes the budget ;)

[mickjoebill]

Will they have another 10 cops checking and sealing the drains on route each day which is what normally goes on with a royal visit?

The day to day activities of the royals are very low key compared to their official engagements.

Mickjoebill

[John Eacott]

Started today, lots of coverage on the local news here :ok:

Prince William begins East Anglian Air Ambulance job (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-33503402)

Prince William undertakes his first mission with East Anglian Air Ambulance (http://www.itv.com/news/2015-07-13/prince-william-has-undertaken-his-first-mission-with-east-anglian-air-ambulance/)

[SilsoeSid]

:8

'Operator Training Manual for the TLC Helilift'

Section 2 - Safety and Regulations

2.2 Intended Use

Carriage of Persons

The Helilift is not designed for the carriage of persons. The Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations (LOLER) for equipment designed for the carriage of persons differs from those of equipment designed for carriage of goods. The helicopter must therefore be vacated before it is attached to the TLC Helilift, and people must not ride or stand on the TLC Helilift.

2.4 Operation

When trailing the helicopter, walking straight ahead and facing the direction of travel, have one hand on the handle.

4 Controls and Safety Devices

4.1.2 Cabinet Safety Devices

Audible Alarm (11)
This audible safety device is a warning to others that the TLC Helilift is active.
Depending on the type fitted, it will sound automatically and continuously:
With ignition ON, or
When handle pulled down, or
When either forward or reverse is engaged

(bold type copied from manual)

vsVDHfO4pwA

[One35]

An excellent and informative piece of investigative journalism there, SS. How long have you been writing for the Daily Mail? ;)

[SilsoeSid]

Sorry, just going through the manual at 3 this morning in between tasks, when I remembered this vid. Not so much investigative journalism, but refreshing my own standards of operating the equipment I am expected to operate in a safe manner. Perhaps there was another paragraph I should also have mentioned!

Maybe it's a simple matter of others following different SOP's/Operating Manuals :confused:

[misterbonkers]

And another excellent example of nit picking!

[Frying Pan]

Ooh Sid, you are a pis$ taker. Surely you had something better to do at 3am, I know I do.

I must confess though, I do tend to look at the helicopter when I dragging it out of the hangar rather than what's behind me, which I've already cleared. So perhaps a lesson there for me :}

[Brilliant Stuff]

What a sad world....

[jimf671]

Leave Sid alone. This guy has been borne and raised as a media event. Never alone with a microphone and all that. Are we saying he doesn't know to be on good behaviour and get the drills right when a camera turns up? :ugh:

[John Eacott]

Leave Sid alone. This guy has been borne and raised as a media event. Never alone with a microphone and all that. Are we saying he doesn't know to be on good behaviour and get the drills right when a camera turns up? :ugh:

Not if the operator doesn't know/teach the correct procedure/drill.

Sniping at something this petty is disappointing. I've no idea how the AA operate but if they have a need to have someone in the aircraft then it's their machine and their rules.

Raise it with management: not the new pilot on his first day on the job.

[SilsoeSid]

I agree, my earlier post can be seen as petty, nit picking, pis$ taking, sniping, creating a sad world, 'elf & safety gone mad, etc. etc, which I suppose is all well and good ... right up to the point where something gets damaged or someone gets injured.

I've no idea how the AA operate but if they have a need to have someone in the aircraft then it's their machine and their rules.
Absolutely, and I'd love to know why one would require a doctor in the rh pilots seat and a 'suit' in lh pilots seat while the ac is being dragged out of the hangar.

[An_engineer]

H145 is fairly tail heavy. Extra 'ballast' in the front seats helps to settle the front of the skids in the forward clamps a little better, as the tubes are much smaller than the clamp diameter. There's no soft padding inside the clamps so any movement can cause paint damage when going over rough ground.

In terms of safety, I'd assume the crashworthy seat is actually the safest place to be anyway, so no problems there...

[SilsoeSid]

Thank you for that an_engineer, that should add another twist to this part of the thread;
Welcome to the TLC Helilifts - Helicopter List (http://www.tlchelilift.com/helicopterlist.html)

... so no problems there ...
:ooh:

[nigelh]

Sid ..... You really need to get out more . What are you thinking of with this nonsense ??!! Get a life and don't embarrass yourself any more !

[Private jet]

So did he pass his 14 ground exams then, or did he receive an "honourary" CPL or is he flying on a PPL because his "wages" go straight to charity?

[nigelh]

Hasn't this been done to death ? He passed all the exams , just like anyone else . He had to be checked out just like anyone else . He is flying with CPL
ATPL like anyone else . Happy ?

[An_engineer]

I'd say the only twisting here is in your knickers Silsoe

[SilsoeSid]

Private Jet, it would be nice if you read the thread that you're posting in .... fully qualified, move on :rolleyes:

[MightyGem]

Sorry, just going through the manual at 3 this morning in between tasks,
As you do. Personally, I preferred the NPAS Ops Manual, just to pick out all the errors in it.

Sid ..... You really need to get out more . What are you thinking of with this nonsense ??!! Get a life and don't embarrass yourself any more !
Go easy on him. NPAS staff aren't allowed to comment on the NPAS topics anymore, so he has to do something. :E

[SilsoeSid]

So, I pick up on something relatively minor and a simple ground handling issue, and then an_engineer comes out with this revelation

Quite some post an_engineer, but just to sum up for Nigel's sake;
You've told us that because the Helilift doesn't operate quite right for this type of aircraft, people have to sit in the front seats in order to balance it out, a practise that goes against the regulations mentioned in the manufacturers user manual.

Walking backwards is nothing, I'll go and find something else to do while an_engineer reveals more.

[An_engineer]

Well that really is quite sensationalist, considering what you wrote before editing. I can only assume you have nothing better to do today either?

I suggest you get in touch with the parties involved if it really bothers you that much.

[SilsoeSid]

Not quite sure what great editing I did apart from neatness, but you have rather spilt the beans old chap!

[An_engineer]

Describing it as a 'Revelation' and talking about 'revealing more'...

Sharing a link to the website as if it is some sort of definitive list of approved and certified uses, when it clearly states it isn't.

I'm sorry you think there are beans to spill old boy.

As I've said before, ring the relevant parties involved and I'm sure they will explain everything for you

[nigelh]

And I pull my 109 out with a quad bike and a piece of old rope .... What does our resident jobsworth have to say about that ?!!!!

[vortexadminman]

Just give the man a chance for Gods sake. If you a Royal supporter or not He is is rotary driver like all of us just getting to grips with a new job. All HEMS drivers know its not what it says on the contract with your company it's a shed load more involved than that, where ever you work.
How many of us got our current work through "contacts"....... before any anti everything people pop up, I will be conservative here but I think about 80%.
The Docs and Paras will also have another bandwidth (not my term theirs) reducing factor on a job. So have a thought for them.............
As a new pilot in this game ( and father of two) good luck with that........:D
As for the peeps involved with his security, we know their all over that and and all the stuff we read on here has been thought out...... I hope. Not just for PW, but the rest of the crew.
So good luck, if we meet on a job .........excuse me if I ignore you when the medical crew ask for my Gopher duties to commence:sad:
Because they will................ and farmers fences spare no shredded legs:O

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

So are certain folks upset by Nigelh's quad bike, or the bit of old rope?

“O! beware, my lord, of jealousy; it is the green-eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on.”

[[email protected]]

Not sure why William would find this new job challenging - flying to a field and landing on, then flying to a hospital and landing on was quite a small part of what he used to do on a daily basis in the SAR force.

No winching, no night mountains, no bouncy fishing boats, no AFCS and radar letdowns with aging avionics - I'm surprised he gets paid at all;)

[Fareastdriver]

When is somebody going to start whinging about him holding a job that one of the sixty soon to be redundant Bristow pilots could have.

On the 'last in first out' basis that could be all the ex military SAR pilots that have just joined.

[SilsoeSid]

This thread has been 'revived' from almost a years inactivity in the whole because of the use of the helilift, nothing to do any individuals in post. Anyone with any sniping in mind aimed at any individual at EAAA, was shot down ages ago and matters of qualification etc were put to bed last year.

No matter who was operating the helilift in the video, so widely covered and broadcast in the worldwide media, the same comments would have been made; just like any other video that has been posted and commented on here on pprune.

I'm sure there's also a 'money for old rope' analogy here somewhere, but I've found something else to do :p

I'm looking forward to the occasional pop in brew at Cambridge when we find ourselves over that way in the early hours, the choc hob nobs are in the nav bag at the ready :ok:

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

SS, you're back-tracking so quickly; you must be great driving the heli-lift. Just mind you dont trip over your bootlaces... :p

[MightyGem]

This thread has been 'revived' from almost a years inactivity in the whole because of the use of the helilift,
Err..no. It was revived by John Eacott for Prince William starting his new job. It was you that started the helilift discussion, almost a week later. :ok:

[SilsoeSid]

MightyGem
This thread has been 'revived' from almost a years inactivity in the whole because of the use of the helilift,
Err..no. It was revived by John Eacott for Prince William starting his new job. It was you that started the helilift discussion, almost a week later.


It was revived as you say by John, but there were no posts until my helilift post a week later. I didn't think one post would constitute a revival.

Art, one doesn't drive the helilift, one operates it, and I haven't been allowed boot laces for a while now :E

[SilsoeSid]

Prince William security alert over app that lets anyone track his ambulance helicopter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174593/Spy-sky-terror-threat-William-Security-alert-app-lets-track-pilot-Prince-s-air-ambulance-helicopter.html)

"Security alert over app that lets anyone track pilot Prince's air ambulance helicopter"

[EESDL]

Funny old thing - remember sometime ago when Sky covered the closure of South of England due a power outage/computer glitch - they used the same app and the RF was clearly depicted for all to see - coming into shot from Aylesbury?
Wonder why DM thinks it is a concern now?
It has been a concern ever since RF flights have to share their flight details.
Personally, I think such a 'significant' Royal flying for an Air Ambulance is self-indulgent.

[G0ULI]

The whole point of transponders is to allow air traffic controllers and automated anti collision systems to prevent two aircraft occupying the same area of sky at the same time. The fact that ADSB transmissions can be picked up and decoded using a £5 TV dongle and a PC running appropriate software, or a mobile phone app, is irrelevant as far as air safety is concerned.

If a determined effort is made to target high profile individuals, there is no need for high tech methods. Simply observing a place they are known to be attending is sufficient. Computer assisted tracking doesn't necessarily increase the security risks associated with holding a high profile public office.

Switching off or spoofing an aircraft transponder will increase the aviation safety risks far more than it decreases the chances of a personal attack on an individual flying in that aircraft.

[[email protected]]

Heard a funny thing recently - someone in an Air Ambulance recruiting role said that SAR hours couldn't be counted as HEMS hours..........what on earth do they think SAR aircraft spend half their lives doing???? The other half is proper tricky stuff, not just landing in fields and at hospitals:ugh::ugh:

[Exascot]

This only tracks the aircraft it doesn't track HRH. It could be a different crew.

Does he get purple airspace? :E

[Rotate too late]

Hmmmmm, wonder if it's the same guy that is selective about what types can be counted for captaincy??? :cool:

[jayteeto]

Crab, what do you mean by HEMS hours?? Who has a requirement??

[darkroomsource]

If one is able to get an anti-aircraft missile on the scene of an accident in time to intercept HRH (and know that he's the pilot at the time, etc. etc.), then one can probably get that missile in position to shoot him while he's at home, or at the palace, or doing any kind of charity work.
Why all the fuss?

[SilsoeSid]

Exascot;
This only tracks the aircraft it doesn't track HRH. It could be a different crew.


If you look through the news reports that are linked to in this thread, they will tell you HRH's start date and that he is on a four on, four off roster. I'm no Archbishop but .... :rolleyes:

I love it when people comment on threads without giving fellow posters the basic courtesy of reading the content of their posts :ugh:

[TeeS]

Hi Crab

Heard a funny thing recently - someone in an Air Ambulance recruiting role said that SAR hours couldn't be counted as HEMS hours..........what on earth do they think SAR aircraft spend half their lives doing????

Unfortunately, the definition of HEMS is written into European Law now and that means, like it or not, you can't count UK military SAR hours as HEMS because, well HEMS is HEMS and SAR is SAR and actually they are different - I suspect the opportunities for a SAR pilot to land in an un-surveyed 2D landing site in a city centre industrial complex are reasonably rare - Generally, ex SAR pilots make quite good HEMS pilots, the ones we sometimes struggle with are those that won't learn because they already know it all but we get those from all walks of life.

We can however, use SAR hours to count towards the requirement for "500 hours’ operating experience in helicopters, gained in an operational environment similar to the intended operation"

Cheers

TeeS

[[email protected]]

Tees - I take your point but HEMS hours won't specify how many 2D unsurveyed LSs that pilot (who may well have operated in rural areas) will have completed will it?

It is a nonsense since so much of HEMS is covered in everyday SAROps - the only real difference is not having to comply with PC1 profiles.

Logicfreezone - nope:ok:

[cyclic]

is there anything an ex-RAF SAR pilot can't do? Not seen it yet :eek:

[Thomas coupling]

Having done both (SAR and HEMS) they are, on the whole quite different.
Crab hasn't done any HEMS, I might add so it could be difficult for him to compare ;)
I can understand how SAR hours don't count, the mentality and approach is different.
'Most' SAR is long haul with some trickie stuff at the end - even then its using big a/c and fairly open spaces. HEMS (don't confuse hems with air ambulance) is little helo's and tight spaces - very tight spaces.
The regs allow for this within reason but nonetheless, when hems is played out, the actions of the pilot are much more tightly honed when it comes to judging landing zones and immovable objects which might spoil your day.

It is subjective - of course it is but the 5 "S's" come into play continuously when it comes to HEMS.......not so much with SAR.
Therefore, QED the challenges (although not as often as enormous they may be with some SAR sorties) are thick and fast - with very little (often none) time to plan fully.
HEMS pilots are little and often. SAR are big and rarely. :ok:

[snaggletooth]

It is subjective - of course it is but the 5 "S's" come into play continuously when it comes to HEMS.......not so much with SAR.

I must take issue with that statement. :=

SAR regularly necessitates landing in confined areas, hill sides, clearings, rough fields, hospital HLSs, etc., the variety is enormous. The 5 'S's are our bread and butter old chap and drummed into us, SH or SAR, from day one. They are a core skill we use day in day out. :ok:

[misterbonkers]

7 Ss! Don't forget Sun and Shadow - they can ruin your day too ;o)

Silsoe - start dates don't always mean you're straight into the 4 on 4 off. But then you don't need the news to help out - you could just sit near the gate and watch what day he arrives...

At the end of the day I think HRH just needs to be allowed to get on with things and enjoy himself at work like the rest of us :o) Afterall, 10-12hrs of drinking tea, ebaying, reading accident reports, watching jezza/war movies and bitching about the world is good life experience! (Oops, I forgot to mention about occasionally going flying)* (who said SAR was different?!?)

*note this is no reflection on my current employed status

[[email protected]]

Crab hasn't done any HEMS true but I have spent 30 plus years operating in and out of confined area of all shapes, sizes and locations - some considerably less accommodating than 2D and for several years without the aid of rearcrew.

It's not rocket science nor particularly difficult so why make a big deal of specialist hours. All in small aircraft with compact rotor discs and often Fenestrons or NOTAR.

[SilsoeSid]

If one is able to get an anti-aircraft missile on the scene of an accident in time to intercept HRH (and know that he's the pilot at the time, etc. etc.), then one can probably get that missile in position to shoot him while he's at home, or at the palace, or doing any kind of charity work.
Why all the fuss?

'These people want sensationalism, so what could possibly be more repugnant to the British people than a suicide bomber at a hospital helipad taking out the second in line to the throne, the second pilot, the doctor, the paramedics, the patient, the hospital staff and the fire crew!

As mister bonkers says, 'all you have to do is sit at the gate and watch for who is on crew' .... Meanwhile the rest of the paradise seekers are hanging around the regions hospitals ready to do the deed.

But as someone said earlier, all this has been taken into account.

[TeeS]

Hi Crab

You have to go back into slightly ancient history to understand where the HEMS experience requirement comes from. Under JAR, there was a minimum of 1000 hours P1 set for command of a HEMS helicopter; however, there were some operators conducting multi-pilot HEMS and someone thought to ask how a HEMS co-pilot could ever gain 1000 hours of P1 in that role. The fairly sensible decision was made that a co-pilot with 1000 hours of HEMS experience will have a good chance of passing a HEMS command course. It is the 500 hours operating a helicopter in a similar role that is pertinent to the SAR pilot, the HEMS co-pilot experience is for HEMS co-pilots.

Also:

It is a nonsense since so much of HEMS is covered in everyday SAROps - the only real difference is not having to comply with PC1 profiles.


is a bit of a red herring. Not only is there no requirement to operate in PC1 at a HEMS operating site, it is impossible to do so unless your HEMS operating site happens to be a pre-surveyed landing site, a surveyed heliport or an airfield. PC1, by definition, requires a known obstacle environment so an un-surveyed HEMS landing site can only ever be PC2 at best.

Cheers

TeeS

[[email protected]]

Useful info Tees, thanks. It still smacks of a system that thinks SAR is all about hovering over boats.

Out of interest - and professional broadening - what are your profiles for PC2?

My RFM only has Cat A procedures (older aircraft) and Cat B just gives a H-V curve for single engine which doesn't even apply under specific AUM.

[jayteeto]

What he means is that whilst you always try to fly PC1 profiles, the sites are not recced.
Crab, as far as I know, any SAR Captain would meet company requirements for experience. As much as you Sarbouys would like to argue, it IS a different job, although SOME things are similar.
Is it harder to do?? Hell no, but it is DIFFERENT.
Yes you go into hospitals, yes you operate in seriously more difficult conditions, but a HEMS pilot requires a slightly different mindset.
The most obvious one is that you do not risk your or your crews life, they are pax, just like easyjet pax.
The rules and regs are restrictive, we often know that we COULD land, but we have to turn away. Ex military pilots can really struggle with that concept. A lot.........
You are also operating with a commercial (money making) brain engaged, you are considering the customer as well. Aircraft monitoring systems are watching you in real time, you should not be upsetting your crew with your 'style' of flying. Whilst the Captain has the last say in the aircraft, the customer has the last say with the money.
What I am trying to say is that the experience requirements don't always come down to pure flying skills (sar has that in abundance). Operating HEMS gives you many many other experiences, your first six months is a blur, operating without an onbase backup team (ie nobody but the crew) and into sites that even SAR would draw breath at. You would easily learn the job, but more importantly, you WOULD have to learn HEMS because you DON'T know it. You know who I am and my experience level, trust me on this one

[[email protected]]

Jayteeto - fair comment:ok:

PS it wasn't me looking for a job but an ex-colleague.

On a separate topic that came up in conversation recently - how many female pilots are there in the AA/HEMS/Police role in UK?

[OvertHawk]

At least one, Crab.

I heard a female voice in the Wiltshire Ambulance 429 the other week (or maybe the crotch straps on the seatbelts are too tight! ;) )

[Spanish Waltzer]

And I believe she is an ex crab SAR jockey too!

[Thomas coupling]

crab: it's the delightful Nicky S, ex Valley.:)

[[email protected]]

So one then!

I did know Nicky had gone there but wondered if any others had made it in.

[jayteeto]

My replacement was female at merseyside, there is at least one other in Hems, plus Nicky

[Thomas coupling]

Just so we are all politically correct here - don't also forget those who started out as guys but became gals later - who fly safely:uhoh:

[MightyGem]

My replacement was female at merseyside
Yes and very good she was too. However, the UEO at Cheshire didn't want the training bill when she couldn't learn mountain flying in one trip, so she was replaced.