Why I (may) quit flying

[PompeyPaul]

In August 2007 I completed my skills test and got my shiny new PPL. Exciting times. I wondered why anybody would be nuts enough to get rid of their PPL afterwards. I'm now at that position where I may just do that.

There are a few reasons, but after 180 hours airborne, night rating & IMC I'm thinking of quitting because:

I've seen everything you can see as a PPL

Ok, I know this isn't true. There's lots of long flights to do, you still learn forever etc etc. However I've flown to France, several times, Netherlands, Belgium and around the South East. I've crossed the Irish sea and flown around N. Ireland & The Giants Causeway. I got my IMC.

Outside of super long trips I don't know where else to go. The longer trips require a very flexible job in case things go south. Something I don't have, as I *used* to earn good money which required an exemplary performance.

Unless I start to take longer, riskier, trips then I've hit all of the local targets. Usually several times.

My financial circumstances have changed

I have started a new business and so money is tighter. Whilst it doesn't preclude flying, I could certainly cover the renewal, I just have to now really want to go flying to pay for it.

My personal circumstances have changed

I now have a 16 month old son. I feel I've pushed my luck, I've been in a couple of icky situations that weren't pleasant, but basically had my fun and survived. I am now more risk averse after his birth.

On top of that going flying, even for an hour, puts far more pressure on my wife as she is now looking after him for a much more longer period of time. Couple that with following the mighty Portsmouth FC and suddenly it's more of an ask on her.

I admit it, pilots aren't the friendliest of people :eek:

I stopped reading this forum after being disgusted with some of the comments people were prepared to post. Some of the things people wrote, about dead pilots, where absolutely revolting and made them subhuman in my eyes.

Let's face it, groups of pilots usually have a higher asshole content than any other group of people I have interacted with. Not exactly a deal breaker but with time & money now more limited I'm not sure I can really be bothered with it anymore.

It's really unreliable as a hobby

Roughly 50% of my booked slots fall through. Usually the weather, but then planes going tech, some guy getting back much later than expected etc all conspire.

Wasn't a problem when I was single, or even had a very accommodating girlfriend, but now I just don't have the flexibility in my life to take it in my stride. "Booking" time out is now just that bit more of an operation.

What's left on offer just isn't interesting to me

Aeros, meh. Maybe but I'm 41 now and my stomach, and digestion in general, is not as resilient as it used to be.

Flying more types? Just seems like hassle. I'd rather go places rather than memorise charts & flight envelopes. Then again it'd be more fun to drive through France enjoying the people, restaurants and places along the way rather than sitting in a cockpit talking to ATCOs and doing FREDA checks.

Ssssooooo overall I am thinking it may be time to hang up my headset. I had a blast doing it, I loved it, wow I spent a fortune doing it, but really it feels like the fat lady is singing.

Has anybody been in this position before? What did you do? Any other general thoughts?

[The Fenland Flyer]

Why not get a share in a simple type and have some fun flying around local short strips and working on your flying skills (get a tail dragger for added fun :))

I bet there is plenty on you door step you haven't discovered yet, both great airfields and great people. At 180 hours I hadn't even seen everything and been everywhere in East Anglia, still haven't now at 400 hours, and probably still won't have visited everywhere in the area at 1000 hours.

It sounds like most of your flying has been straight and level from A to B, you don't need to get into aeros to have a lot of fun without going far or spending a fortune. No need to take risks either.

I hope you decided to keep flying and take your son up one day :ok:

[mary meagher]

Yes, Pompey, its time for you to take a break from flying.

Your family is much more important.

You can always come back to flying 20 years from now....we'll be pleased to welcome you then if you decide to try gliding; but if you do, a bit more is required than just swanning around the continent .. a gliding club can survive only if every member helps out.

Talking to other real live people is always more satisfying than pontificating on a website.

And the skill of flying will still be there, even after 20 years. Rusty, but intact.

[Jan Olieslagers]

@Mary: well said!

@Paul: yes, I recognise several of your feelings. The difference for me is that I have bought my own craft so now it sits there in its hangar so I must fly it even if my budget gets tighter and tighter. The only alternative is to sell the bird, which would loose me even more money.

But do take Mary's advice to heart: for the time being your family is obviously dearer to you. Family life is an essential value, to me at least and apparently to you too. Private flying is a luxury which you can return to any time. Like swimming or cycling, you won't have to learn anew, you'll only have to refresh what you learned, then pick up the thread where you left it.

[Lone_Ranger]

Bye.........

[Cusco]

Yep PP

With that litany of miseries it prob is time for you to go.

Good luck

Cusco.

[thing]

Let's face it, groups of pilots usually have a higher asshole content than any other group of people

You've obviously never had to work with singers.

[xrayalpha]

I could take almost every point you make and argue with it, but.....

You have obviously decided private PPL flying isn't for you.

Well done for making that decision, it was good to have you around while it lasted and welcome back should you ever decide to give it another go.

[A and C]

Singers ? Try glider pilots ! ( not all of them but the bad ones are bad at Olympic level)

[ec155mech]

I would quit the soccer thing, I know I'm gonna get loads of bullocking for this, but it's just a bunch of overpaid blokes in shorts kicking around a piece of dead cow on a grass field.

But it sounds like you made up your mind. And well done for that, one shouldn't fly when you're not focused on it.

And I'm sure your family would rather have you in one piece.

[Heston]

Its a leisure activity - its not compulsory - and its your life to live as you think fit.


But why post on here unless you want to be convinced not to stop?

[tecman]

In my observation PPLs come with lots of different motivations. Some are into flying just as a way of transport and, after a while, realize that that works well for only a small handful. Some are in it just for the image (you know the type). Others are homebuilders and experimenters, enjoying the flying just long enough to have a break before starting a new project. Still others have their own individual reasons. But some of us just like to fly, and we mix in a bit of everything else to provide the outward justification that we don't actually need.

A few years ago, when I thought of giving up flying due mainly to time pressures from my profession, I realized I was lucky to be one of the pilots who enjoyed flying just for its own sake. With that in mind, I bought a second hand VLA with a nice panel, and based it a country field relatively near to where I live. The result is a simple flying life, with minimal time overheads. Plenty of endurance for the longer trips on the rare occasions I can get away. No apologies needed if I can only make an hour on a Sunday. And the aeroplane is safely tucked up for the many weeks I'm away.

I occasionally miss a bit of 'heavy iron' but I don't miss the hassles of rental bookings, or group maintenance coordination. And if the pangs for a C182 or Bonanza get too sharp, there are plenty of rental opportunities.

Having been through the decision process, I'd encourage the OP to reflect a bit on motivation. If his interest is really just sightseeing, the advice to go and do something different might be correct. However, with all that activity packed into 180 hours, maybe he's not ranking the flying experience itself highly enough. I guess the only thing that gives me pause for thought is the comment about not wanting to try new aircraft types - that's a new one to me. But how about giving some of the low-key recreational flying opportunities a go? Very little to lose!

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Paul,

I agree with Mary; it's time to go.

However, remember one thing, FLYING IS A NARCOTIC and like booze or tobacco you can never ever be sure you are free of it.

I gave up flying in 1969 but throughout all the succeeding years found myself looking skywards whenever something flew past.

Then in 2002 I felt an overwhelming need to come back.

I flew from 2005 to 2008 when the financial effects of the 'Credit Crunch' damaged my finances and put paid to it.

So I haven't flown for six years - but still read Pprune daily.

Now I find myself once again looking, with longing eyes, this time at the three axis microlight category which looks like cheaper flying.

Should I? Who knows - perhaps...

Good luck Paul,

BP.

[Pace]

PP

I am sorry to hear that! I think if most of us are honest we have all been there! I know with myself several times in 30 years of flying.

Situations, circumstances change! We change.

In my case when I took up flying all I wanted to do was get to solo then I would chuck it all in but somehow over the years situations change back and new challenges come along.

for me it was going commercial and getting the chance to fly some tasty machinery.

I have had the privalage of some jet ferry work which has taken me all over the world and i would be far poorer without those fabulous memories and experiences.

Sometimes I think it is better to tread water rather than make the bold statement
what you feel today you won't feel tomorrow and you have put a lot into achieving those licences so why not for now just do the minimum and see how you feel in a years time or whenever?

As for pilots and forums? Text is a faceless medium anonymous forums are places where people hide, pretend to be what they are not and places where text can be misunderstood. On top of that we are egos and it is so easy to make a mistake and get those egos damaged.

So in reality probably no different to people in forums from any other occupation.
I know of a friend in the local golf club and I have never heard of so much backbiting and self importance as there. So do not take up golf :E

Pace

[Heston]

What you need is one of these :)


http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/2/6/1551623.jpg

[FantomZorbin]

Years down the road, if you do you'll regret it ... I know I do:(

[Echo Romeo]

Sounds like you've crammed a hell of a lot into 180 hrs! Does that include initial training?

If you feel that way you're best out of it I'd say.

[thing]

Why does it have to be a permanent decision? Do you have a favourite restaurant? Would you go every night? Same with hobbies/pastimes. You do them as the desire takes you.

What's wrong with packing up flying? You don't want to do it anymore so it would seem to be a no brainer. You can always come back to it. I've jacked in and restarted gliding several times. Same with fishing and golf.

[Camargue]

Sounds like you enjoyed the adventure but not flying for flyings sake. So take a break and wait for your son to be old enough to come with you.

Try aeros, tolerance builds quickly. If you don't like them, fair enough and awful lot of pilots don't. If you do you practice for competions etc, you only need to fly in the summer months and trips are short. Also the nature of the beast means that there is always room for improvement, more accurate flying, more figures etc. can't do anything about the weather though......

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I almost gave up flying when my first daughter was born in 1986, so I know where you're coming from. I'm so glad I didn't. 20 years later she was loving flights in the Chippy and flying it very well herself!

[englishal]

Do you rent Paul? That is an unsustainable way of flying IMHO. You need to buy a share, even if it is relatively cheap share.

I got bored renting, and could have easily given up in the mid naughties. So I bought my first share which reinvigorated flying. Eventually we sold that one and me and one of the others in that group bought our own plane between us (Commander). This was much faster and our own plane so we can do whatever we want, when we want, and we do.

When my son was born I went through all the usual guilt trips, about what would happen if I killed myself, or leaving the Mrs at home looking after kids while I go flying (which was a source of discussions, believe me ;) )....BUT now he is older (almost 3) I can take him flying with me, give her a break, and he LOVES it...After a flight he talks about it non stop for days. Now we can also go flying as a family, and so those "discussions" are largely disappearing. can't wait for the day we can jump in the family Turboprop and fly down to Switzerland for a weekend's skiiing (ha ha, yea right, but we can dream....).

yes I do think "what if I crash" with the family on-board but I have come to trust my skills so that if anything goes wrong, I believe I can handle it to the best of my ability....I also took out life insurance.......

[Pace]

I used to take my son flying with me when he was little in fact living next to a field we used to fly past the kitchen window waving at her (only joking)
he was right seat in a 737 at the age of 20 flying for Easy Jet so look what you might deprive your kid of :ok:

Pace

[Stall Inducer]

Why not take your wife & son along with you ? It can make a great family activity that you can all enjoy together . Ive taken my 2 children up aged 6 months & 3 years - no probs at all. The 3 year old loves it & the 6 month old just falls asleep.

[PompeyPaul]

Thanks for all of the advice and tips.

I did actually go cold on my flying once before but then watched a Christmas special of "some ,others do 'av 'em" and thought 'I really need to get back to that:

F49v_p7FwcQ

I guess there is good advice here. Take a break, wait for my son to grow a bit then take him with me :ok:

Thanks guys!

[Level Attitude]

I guess there is good advice here. Take a break, wait for my son to grow a bit then take him with meI does sound as though you are at a stage in your life where you 'should' take a break from flying. We hope that break will be temporary: A lot of people don't even learn to fly until their late 40s / early 50s - once their children have left home and they have more disposable income and time.

Working on the assumption that you are likely to want to return to flying in the future then make this easier for yourself by not starting your break until you have the most up to date / longest lasting qualifications:

Licence - Make sure you have an EASA Part-FCL PPL (which is valid for life).
SEP Rating - Revalidate it before your break. Valid for 2 years, can be renewed without CAA involvement (or cost) for 3 years beyond that.
Night Rating - Valid for Life
IMC Rating - Renewable by test at any time. Not worth doing before your break.
Class 2 Medical - As you are over 40 this would only be valid for 2 years so probably not worth doing before your break.

[dobbin1]

Try aerobatics.

[maxred]

Paul, I actually thought that was a truly depressing post you made, but I am only an amateur phsycologist, not a qualified one.:sad:

We ALL face these issues. When my sons were born, guess what. I gave up flying at the weekend, gave up a display routine, and spent the weekend with my wife and kids, where every father should be.

Ok, I was fortunate, I took every Wednesday off, MY day I called it, and I went flying. It kept me alive, kept my family fully functional, as a pose to the rest of the dysfunctional's, nowadays, and life went on. Still built up over 1100 hours, and now I am back with a full schedule, my kids are now older.

That post echoed that something else may not be quite right, not all to do with flying. Tell you what, pour a large Gin, go outside, assuming it is not raining, and have quiet word with yourself.

Works wonders, trust me:confused:

[PPRuNeUser0173]

I would keep your options open and follow the advice of Level Attitude!

[FullWings]

I've seen everything you can see as a PPL
What's left on offer just isn't interesting to me
It sounds like you need some new challenges in aviation. Also not ones that require an increase in funding (aeros, IR, etc.)

As a airline pilot, I still find my day job has the odd interesting bits, sometimes too interesting(!) but after more than thirty years I still get up early in the morning in anticipation of a good soaring day. I can launch, stay up, go cross-country and think of nothing else but the task in hand for 5-10hrs. I’m still improving (I think) and there are always more challenges when you think you’ve hacked it: thermal, anabatic, ridge, wave, shear, mountains, deserts, different countries, different hemispheres, the list is endless.

The soaring disciplines reward concentration and pilot input (and also punish inattention and sloppiness) like no other. You get to a point flying power where you’re just sitting there waiting for something to fail to get the arousal level up, while spending several £s a minute. Motorless flight is not at all like that: fairly constant thought is required just to stay airborne and if you own your kit, the cost per hour goes down the more you fly it!

I can understand that increasing commitments with family and finance can make you question the whole affair, especially if you feel the magic has gone out of flying and you’re only doing it because you have invested large amounts of time and money in the process. Taking a break for some time might be the answer if the motivation to carry on as you are is no longer there. I hope you find a solution...

[IFMU]

Soaring is real flying. I miss it.

[foxmoth]

Like others have said, if you give up you will likely get to the stage where you really want to fly again (usually about two weeks for me!), so, pack it in until you reach the stage where you NEED to come back - may be shorter than you think!:ok:

[mary meagher]

Full Wings says it all!

Here is an airline pilot. The pinnacle of his profession. And what does he find most interesting and challenging in aviation?

Soaring!

Go back and read his post again, he says it all.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Here is an airline pilot. The pinnacle of his profession.

Apart from fighter pilots, test pilots, SAR pilots and various other people whose jobs require a far higher level of skill than operating an airliner.

Of course he'd find soaring more fun!

G

[Lukesdad]

Paul: Good advice being given here to keep your options open for the future. I flew with my little boy when he wasn't very old and he's now earning his living in the front seat of a GR4.

[Mechta]

Whilst gliding does give the new set of challenges that the OP seems to need, a reality check is needed if you think a weekend at a gliding club is the place to be when you have a 16 month old child at home. Going gliding at weekends whilst the mother gets left with the baby again after a week of it, sounds like a recipe for divorce. Gliding clubs expect all pilots to assist with running operations when they are not flying, so unless it is known and agreed that the OP is only there for a little longer than his flights, there is either going to be friction at the club or at home.

A mid-week evening gliding course may be the answer as it will leave the weekends free and the time commitment is less. Mum may even be willing to come along with the child to get some fresh air.

When it is Dad's turn with the sprog, flying and gliding clubs can be a good place to take the child (on a suitable restraint) to have something to look at and wear him/her out whilst giving Dad at least a partial fix as a spectator. Lasham & Popham were both regular destinations when my two were small.

[mary meagher]

Yes, Ghengis, fighter pilots, test pilots, S&R, North Sea helicopter pilots, trouble is most of these forms of flying, while immensely satisfying and challenging, are not open to ordinary mortals!

When I think of an airline pilot, as at the top of his profession, I think of the 360 people sitting behind him who place their lives in his hands. Respect for that responsibility is due.

Though of course, it all began when an airmail pilot in the State of Washington was offered an incentive to fly a man to a very important meeting in California.....(the only seat available was on top of the mail bags)

The pilot said "Well, I guess if my ass gets there, yours will too....."

[First_Principal]

Paul, I'm reminded of the following from Hamlet:

"there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so"

Unlike some others I didn't find your post depressing or negative, or that you were just looking for confirmation of a decision already made. Rather it was a call for some discussion that might assist you in where you are on flying at this time...

FWIW my view is that there are times in life when priorities change, where previously enjoyable activities pall, and where new directions call for some reflection on life past and life going on.

I sympathise on the situation you're in and from your post perhaps it could be a time to put the flying aside for a bit. It's not an irrevocable decision, it's neither good nor bad, it's just a decision you make and move on. Later you can return if you wish to, and take up some of the suggestions people have put forward, or perhaps never grace the skys again. Either way it's not the 'wrong' (or right!) path to take.

Personally I no longer fly much because there's no reason to. I was never really in it for 'fun' and since the work I did has mostly dried up I've moved on to other things. I still have a circle of friends from aviation, occasionally do things on the odd 'craft, and of course there's still the 'Prune so I don't feel like I'm bereft, or have lost anything in not flying - rather I'm grateful for the good times and the people I've come to know.

In closing I would say that I'm sorry to hear the comments regarding personalities here. While aviation is probably no different from other walks of life in terms of the mix of people, I've found some enduring friendships from the group of decent people I've been involved with over the time.

FP.

[Aware]

Paul,

I think maybe you are a considerate chap thinking of Family, and your comments about others in this field fairly sensitive to others. Thats fine because many are not. Flying to some is their whole life, they need it, some can dip in and out. On the whole most I have met are good people willing to help you, some are numpties, some schools are full of them, share groups are usually less ego lead.

I learned at 20, gave up by 23 due to money. Had the chance of sponsorship but turned that down could n't see me doing flying for career. So went into financial services.

Got the bug again at 35, did CPL FI NIGHT IR(R)+IRI(R) + GRE carried on in FS but instructed for 10 years with some good schools, all part time, gained 1500 hrs, Re did ATPL exams due to employment propects in flying looked good, the place I instructed at had offered me the chance to fly their company ac but had no IR, still dont.

Then the recession came, and a requirement for me to gain further financial services exams at a high level which kinda put pay to aviation. Couldn't juggle both easily anymore.

So there I am in FS for good I guess, am now a company director, and was offered the chance recently to fly and interview for a job instructing again having not flown for along while, flight went well after I realised I was trying to land downwind on the PFL ha ha. Offered job instructing again and doing ground school, but turned them down as some how just didn't feel right, because I'm so busy with my new company.

During this time I have had the same wife and bought up 2 kids and have always put my Family first, and given them a good life.

Moral of my story is I have dipped in and out of flying all my life, but sometimes other things are more important, I have a career now where I could afford to fly for pleasure which I may do, finish my IR and go touring, but despite all my exams, training flying, my head is still looking out the window on nice days when Im sat in the office and as now a company director a rather nice lifestlye, so you are unlikely to get this totally out of your head I'm afraid, if you had the will power for getting the ratings, all that work time and money is not easily let go.

Take a break, make sure as the advice says above get an EASA licence, and yes maybe simplfy things, gliding etc, Ive been looking at ac shares again and getting rather excited, I'm now 50 and not ready to be totally earth bound, but as everything in life who knows what will happen, but to give up totally on it never felt great to me, but always considered it a hobby really, a break is better. And some days I miss the flying a lot, others I could take it or leave it, strange old game this.

One thing thats make me think about this game is , Ive kept in contact with lots of my students, and when they call me most complain about their jobs in aviation, not many seem overly happy and are always trying to get to that perfect job, bigger ac more exciting company etc etc, and all say keep it as a hobby for Gods sake, but the students who did the flying as a hobby and have bought ac shares seem much happier on the whole and keep going with it far longer than those who use schools.

[maxred]

Something I don't have, as I *used* to earn good money which required an exemplary performance.

Lost his job.

I have started a new business and so money is tighter. Whilst it doesn't preclude flying, I could certainly cover the renewal, I just have to now really want to go flying to pay for it.

Starting a new business, presumably because jobs are scarce

I now have a 16 month old son. I feel I've pushed my luck, I've been in a couple of icky situations that weren't pleasant, but basically had my fun and survived. I am now more risk averse after his birth.

Major life change circumstance

Let's face it, groups of pilots usually have a higher asshole content than any other group of people I have interacted with

No surprise here, worse than yachties...

Roughly 50% of my booked slots fall through. Usually the weather, but then planes going tech, some guy getting back much later than expected etc all conspire.

Major issue when time constrained

Aeros, meh. Maybe but I'm 41 now and my stomach, and digestion in general, is not as resilient as it used to be.

Flying more types? Just seems like hassle. I'd rather go places rather than memorise charts & flight envelopes. Then again it'd be more fun to drive through France enjoying the people, restaurants and places along the way rather than sitting in a cockpit talking to ATCOs and doing FREDA checks.

I don't think PP likes it anymore


Soooo, for all of those who obviously did not read the OP, a trait on Pprune, Pompey has a lot more going on than just wondering about gliding. Several major life changes in there, all of which an Internet forum may not resolve. As stated, we all face life changes, some more frequently than others, and unfortunately, you just have to sit still,and work out your priorities and where you want to go, simples really:uhoh:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Though of course, it all began when an airmail pilot in the State of Washington was offered an incentive to fly a man to a very important meeting in California.....(the only seat available was on top of the mail bags)

The pilot said "Well, I guess if my ass gets there, yours will too....."

Well, exactly. The 'responsibility for hundreds of pax' can be overstated - the pilot wants to get there in piece too! I'm reminded of my mate, retired BA captain who, when asked what it's like to fly that awfully big jumbo jet with hundreds of pax in it says "I just fly this little bit at the front, and the rest of it sort of follows along".

[bad bear]

Hi Paul,

All your points are valid.

What is there for you to do next after all the ratings and 180 hours ? Renting is expensive.

I see you are at Guildford and not that far from Lasham Gliding Society (nr Basingstoke). Lasham is child and partner friendly and have a child play area (over £1,000 spent on games and toys this year alone), good bar and restaurant. All this week there is a competition with 100 pilots racing against each other for 5 hours a day, except today when its raining, if you have time off pop up and watch. 200 movements in one hour is a spectacle worth watching!!
Converting to gliding is relatively easy if you find the right instructor and with some gliding experience you should be able to fly towplanes. A winch launch cost £10, soaring is cheap. Glider pilots do some interesting and challenging flights in UK and abroad.
In gliding you can local soar or go cross country, fly fast plastic gliders or enjoy the Vintage scene. Vintage is big at Lasham with old gliders being rebuilt and displayed in the purpose built Heritage centre, and regularly flown. http://www.glidingheritage.org.uk
There are times when lots of kids are around for your to play with and the teenagers learn to glide a low cost on Saturday evenings and solo @ 14 years old. There are sometimes 10- 20 youngsters having fun on a Saturday evening.
Owning a 1/3 share in a basic glass glider can cost around £3,000 and cost £700 per year for all the flying you want, just add launches, club membership and beer for a fun year.
Some UK flights from Lasham have exceeded 750 kms this year (click on the link to see a map of the flights Daily Scores (http://www.bgaladder.co.uk/Enquiry.asp) ), returning safely to base while others enjoy much shorter local flights in open cockpit vintage gliders.

Worth a try before you hang up your headset?

bb

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Hi Paul

I think I'm the same as you insofar as you feel that flying has lost any PURPOSE.

You've done all you set out to achieve - in 180 hours whereas it might take many several years or a lifetime in private flying to visit the places you have flown to.

Maybe you're easily bored and constantly need new experiences rather than repeat that which has gone before?

If you take away the 'airline route' and finances are limited then maybe microlights and gliding are an option, as suggested by others.

Not just gliding - but maybe the 'excitement' of achieving badges would provide a new purpose - silver, gold, diamonds?

When I had 180 hours and an PPL/RT/Night/IMC I was about to embark on my airline career through the 'self-improver' route - MEP/BCPL/FI/IR/CPL/ATPL/FE on pistons, turboprops and jets.

Now it's over and I feel like you - no purpose.

I don't think you have the passion, so unless you can find a purpose through further training and achievement it's probably time to move on.

All the best in any event.

[Crash one]

Hi Paul.It would be a shame to waste what you have achieved. Have you thought about the LAA route? Either share or outright at ~£10K or thereabouts.
Gliding is fine if you can spare the time, it is usually a whole day job, mucking in as a team etc. renting club a/c would be a financial killer.

[AdamFrisch]

I got bored after my initial PPL. I also couldn't afford to fly in my 20's, so that was part of the reason. Didn't even look up into the sky when an airplane passed. Then one day, about 15 years later I just woke up and wanted to fly again. Ever since that day the passion has not only stayed, but become stronger. I love it more than ever. Big part of it for me was becoming an airplane owner. Just the thought of my own plane sitting there, always ready to take me at a moment's notice anywhere, is exhilarating. I don't want to share it, rent it. I want it to be all mine.

So, take a break, concentrate on other things, family, business. One day you'll wake up and feel the urge again. Might take 2 years or 20. And then, ownership is a great way to get excited again.

[Whirlybird]

I've given up flying, for the moment. Not a lot of people on here know that, even those who remember me, and I'm not here very often these days although at one time I just about lived on PPRuNe (when I wasn't flying).

It's actually over 2 years since I last flew, and just about everything has lapsed - licences, ratings, you name it. I couldn't be bothered to try to keep them when I didn't want to use them. And that's after PPL(A), CPL(H), FI(H), about 1,300 hours, instructing jobs, lots of foreign flying, over 30 helicopter types, winning the Dawn to Dusk...I could go on, but you get the picture.

So what happened? Well in no particular order...loss of well paid non-flying job, health problems/temporary loss of medical, loss of instructing job and little chance of new one, a few flying scares, a new relationship, other interests. But mainly...I just didn't want to do it any more; I don't really know why. It's been absolutely great, it was a wonderful 15 years, and I don't regret a single moment of it. But all good things come to a natural end, and this feels like a natural end for my flying career.

I haven't lost interest altogether. I come on here now and then. I still write about aviation for pleasure and profit, and I have the knowledge and anecdotes to do so for many more years. But actual flying...nah, been there, done that, it's time to move on. There was a time when I thought I'd never feel that way, but now I do. Things change, and I don't have a problem with that.

As for trying something new like gliding, new types etc - I could, but I really don't want to do that either. Someday, maybe, I might decide that I want to fly again; life is long, and I certainly don't rule it out. I may have a bit of a hassle getting licences back etc, but so what; I got them in the first place, so I can get them again.

So do what's right for you, and if it feels like that is giving up flying, then....go for it! And enjoy whatever comes next....

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Mine's a similar tale to Whirly's. About 2 years since I last flew. But in my case after 34 years of fabulous fun in many many types, mostly tailwheel, very long term Chipmunk share, shorter term Yak52, Citabria, and 172 shares (OK, the 172 came with the Citab in the same group, that's how that one got in!). Even did a spell as a meat bomber pilot. But I sense it's time to hang up the headset because quite honestly it's a lot more 'controlled' and therefore less fun than it was.

I feel the best years for me were the first 20 - late 70s to late 90s. After that increased security, yellow-jacketitis, and a generally less tolerant attitude from authority have taken the edge off grass tailwheel fun flying. When someone made me an offer for my beloved Chippy share, I reluctantly decided it was time to take it. I treasure the memories which are simply amazing, especially the stuff we used to do in the early days.

I suspect a lot of the fun that we enjoyed 'messing around in small aeroplanes' is today to be found in microlighting. I might look at that... but like Whirly I have other interests now so don't really miss flying like I thought I would.

Wouldn't have missed any of it for the world, though. Second only to raising a family, getting a PPL relatively early in life while there was fun flying to be had messing about and stripping in a vintage taildragger, and of course aeros taken further with the Yak, was the best thing I ever did.

Don't give up until 'the time is right'.

[Pace]

SSD

I can remember when me and some friends would take a PA28 to Manchester park amidst the big jets on the apron. Walk up into the main terminal and get a coffee!
You have a good point it is all becoming too much hassle now and the costs horrendous!
I now have to consider what will be required of me to convert my FAA ATP to an EASA equivalent to fly an N reg jet in Europe!
If it's far off a straight swap I too might just chuck it in!
When I started flying in the 80s a C150 was £23 Per hour !!!

Pace

[foxmoth]

When I started flying in the 80s a C150 was £23 Per hour !!!
Yes, and when I started it was about £5 IIRc - but average salary was about £2,000pa - all relative!

[Maoraigh1]

I had to give up flying for over 20 years when renting a Chipmunk or C150 went over £6. (The Government stopped giving a fuel rebate for flying.)
I've now been flying regularly for over 27 years, and would have flown more than the 6.5 tach hours so far this month, if the weather had been better.
The important thing is enjoying flying you can afford, rather than looking for some more training for something you'll not use.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I'm not going to publish on here some of the stuff we did... but now everyone has a video camera on their phone and will stick the results on social media... Different times!

[AndoniP]

Hi Paul,

I understand where you're coming from. We've got a 2 1/2 year old and although for the first year and a half maybe it was a bit more difficult, it's a lot easier now.

Re following Pompey (commiserations, firstly :E), I would have thought that going away to somewhere up north for an away game is as long a day as flying to Belgium or somewhere.

For me the weekends are a toss-up between following Tottenham and flying (weather permitting). The disillusionment for me has come with my football club, so that always gives way to any flying that occurs. I can't fly and go football on the same weekend (agreement with the Fuhrer). Having said that I only have about 100 hours and haven't been abroad yet so I still have a wide range of airfields to land away at.

But I also get your 'what else is there to do?' point. You hire, fly somewhere, maybe get a bite to eat and fly back. Great. Then what? It does feel as though there's little other purpose sometimes and once you've done it you feel like there should be something else to it, and doing the same thing will quickly become a bit dull. Have you considered getting a CPL and doing some ferry flying or supplementing your job with some part time paid flying work? That could provide some interest to you.

Whatever you do you can come back to flying so if you feel the time is right to take a break then do it, raise your child, then who knows, you might want to get back to flying sooner than you think.

It's like missing a home game after a bad run of results, you think, 'sod it I can't be bothered with this', then when you miss it, you wish you were there... :)

Good luck

[Aware]

The important thing is enjoying flying you can afford, rather than looking for some more training for something you'll not use.

Very wise words, keep it simple and low cost, then the guilt goes away so does the hassle.

Paul when you said you had spent a fortune I was thinking PPL + IMC plus lets say 120 hrs, can't be that bad, but today that would cost I guess the best part of £30K !! Cricky the Mrs would have to be understanding !!

I spent 20K on all my ratings and over 10 years earned that back part - time with a bit to spare, at £20 - £25 ph, so as a cost exercise ok, time wise not good, but some of my students are now still instructing for free, having spent fortunes on ratings.

This thread got me thinking what else would I do, classic car maybe, but looking on net a good one of those is 30K or so, but I guess in 10 years if you have had enough you sell it and maybe make a profit. I was looking at single engine training for IR £320.00 dual PH on south coast, its probably time to move on !!

[golfbananajam]

Paul

1. take your son with you, you can fit the car seat he uses to mots (if not all) 4 seat types that I'm aware of

2. flying in France (and other places too) isn't about how far you can go but the places you can land (mostly free) and what you can do/see/eat when you get there

3. Don't give up unless you really have to. I did, through financial reasons, and now regret it so I'm looking at starting again

all that said, when you get round to making the decision, don't look back.

[Piper19]

The thing I most regret in my flying career is the 4 year stop I did. Got my PPL back and 270 hours later I am still enjoying it, even when I got 2 daughters in the meantime. Of course the wife doesn't want to fly with me as she used to do before the kids, but in the end it's my hobby, not hers. The oldest daughter now shows some interest in aircraft, although I never pushed her into it.
It is expensive, but the weather will act as a money saver from time to time.
Most important is to find a few flying buddies (difficult, not all pilots are compatible with each other), and to do some things from time to time that attracted you into flying in the first place (for me that's flying oldtimers).

If you can't find yourself in this, it's really time quit flying, it's not a shame to do that and you will not be the first one nor the last.

[thing]

There are guys as well, this is not in any way a criticism by the way, that enjoy the challenge of doing something new and once it's achieved have no other reason for doing it. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, a friend of mine at my club who isn't a commercial pilot summed it up perfectly when we were talking about reasons for flying the other day. He said 'I don't fly because I want to, I fly because I have to.' If you fall into that category then aviation is in your blood for ever.

[AndoniP]

'I don't fly because I want to, I fly because I have to.'

What you didn't hear was the 'get away from the wife and kids' bit after that :E

[thing]

What you didn't hear was the 'get away from the wife and kids' bit after that

Thought that was a given...:)

[ChickenHouse]

Tired at 180hs already? This sounds like you chose the lady to crawl on her back, or something went terribly unpredictable in your life. I remember, when I was in the 180hs, it started to feel like really get to know the machine, not only flying it.

My most interesting adventures began after 200hs, when I strolled over the airfields nearby and still today, I get to learn new place astonishing near I never visited. Even more, starting after that I got real friends - the ones who where frequent airborne as I was.

The old rule 'o pilots - if you start to dislike, end it, before it kills you!

[CABUS]

PPaul

I am sad to say but I agree with a lot of what you have had to say. The private flying world attracts a wide range of people most of which are great and one can have a lot in common with however, it also can attract quite a few competitive egomaniacs who can nearly always be found at flying clubs holding court on gin clear weekends. With commercial airspace taking over, VFR corridors and sectors being ever squeezed and nice little strips closing down private flying is getting ever worse - especially on the South coast. I can see how these things would defiantly drive to to think twice about flying, especially if you have ticked off all the major PPL training boxes and flown to a variety of places, the challenge and fun have sadly gone.

I would agree with the sentiments of a few others and put powered flying on the back burner for a while. If you keep flying while not fully enjoying it you will only end up seeing it as a money drain and end up resenting it. Where as if you stop flying for a couple of years you could always go back to it with only a few hours as a refresher. Enjoy a few holiday in the car to Reims and hopefully you will come back to flying and enjoy it all the more so.

Cracking advice about a new challange Fwings, I would defiantly give soaring a go, great fun and hones the skills.

All the best.

[echobeach]

The real question if you leave aside the affordability of private flying, is why any of us carry on with it.

Lots of points have been raised including cost, risk assessment, family and work responsibilities etc

It can be an unforgiving hobby if you make a mistake and it comes with increasing red tape.
If you have an all consuming job it can be difficult to make the time. I have thought long and hard about this at times.

Do you fly to achieve qualifications, tour, visit new places or just to get airborne ?

I have wrestled with all the above. I have done about 650 hours and Sep, night, mep, taildragger, Imc, most of jaa ir theory and practical. But then I thought, what do I really want to do with this. Do I have to always do something new ? All of these qualifications were really about raising my game and making my flying safer.

I have now reached a point where I am totally happy with what I do when flying. It's all too easy to forget how much work it took to get to the point where a 1 hour flight might not seem challenging enough. I am not likely to fly for work, do regular long tours (though I have done a few) or be a professional.

I now fly, knowing that I am totally addicted to the view of the uk coast from the air.

I don't want to fly jets, be a sky god or airline pilot. I just want, as long as health and finance allows, to go flying on whatever routes weather allows, to experience being airborne.

I only have to see a plane or smell the avgas and I am wish to get up there.

My flights and routes might be similar but the wind the weather or other factors always change. I learn something new every flight.

If it's not the costs, but the loss of that passion for flying however you maintain it, then maybe a break is the right thing.

I know when I am past it all and sit on the verandah in my rocking chair as an old man, that my flying will be one of the most rewarding and enjoyable achievements of my life.

[abgd]

Why did you start the thread - did you hope to be convinced back to the fold, or are you simply not sure?

[PompeyPaul]

I started the thread simply because that's where I was with my flying. I was wondering if anybody else had been there and if so what did they do?

When I first started my training I bought my headset off Ebay. I actually met the chap who sold it and asked him why he was selling. "Well, I was going to go flying but wasn't current so I had to go with an instructor for an hour, then I did my hour flying, so overall that flying cost me £400. I gave up just because it's to much for a quick jaunt somewhere".

Given money wasn't a problem for me I wondered why I may give up flying. It's got a terrifically high attrition rate and I couldn't understand why.

The replies were great and I think I'll definitely take a break until my son is old enough to go flying with me. That takes weight off of my wife and will also give her space in the future.

Also the Cirrus SR22 is going to become more accessible as time goes on. Whilst I may have exhausted what you can reasonably do in a PA28, in a day, the 211 knot cruise of the SR22 will suddenly bring far more destinations in sight which will re-ignite my interest.

The really striking thing was the number of people who were active, when I was very active on PPrune, who chimed in to say they'd stopped flying too. It's like we all hit that brick wall at the same time.

Looking forward to getting back in the saddle. but am happy not to for a while.

[HowlingMad Murdock]

Hi PP - interesting topic - enjoyed reading all the contributions with reasons for/against etc. made me think......sorry to hear you won't be flying for a while - though sounds like you have come to the right decision for you and your family at this moment in time.

Whirlybird - :ooh: surprised that you are not flying at the moment...again everything has its time and hopefully you will take to the skies again soon. Know this - you are an inspiration...:)

all the very best to you both.

[PA28181]

With about 2500 hrs flying experience & over 1000hrs as P1 I can see the day not far off hanging up the headset. The long awaited GA changes that are now becoming reality are outweighed by increasing costs, EASA bureaucracy, ACP's etc

The only viable alternative for me is to get more involved in my other activity, sailing. this will challenge as much, if not a lot more as I know well, and is very unforgiving if taken lightly.

The comparitive freedom from rule making obsessed civil servants & NO LICENCE required, will be more than enough to take on the challenge of sailing.

[thing]

I don't think it should be an issue really. There seems to be a feeling that once you're a pilot then that's it, you should carry on regardless. I used to like brandy, can't stand the smell of the stuff now so I don't drink it. I don't loose sleep over it. If you don't want to do something then don't do it.

I mentioned in the gliding thread that I've just rejoined my old gliding club. I know after around a year I'll have got the gliding bug out of my system and will pack it in for another five years or so. I may even never do it again, I don't know nor do I care really. If I want to do it I will, if I don't I won't. There's no soul searching to be done.

[Private jet]

Well I did my final flight just over 2 weeks ago. After 15 years of flying professionally, 20 years since I started with the PPL and in total 25 years in the industry I have just had enough. The changes that have come along with EASA are part of it, also I've reached the limit of what I can do career wise I think. I have no regrets at all but as previously stated, people change and I have. Life is short and there are many other things to go do apart from flying. I still have an interest in aviation, but I just don't feel the need to do it anymore. I must admit i'm not a fan of the PPL "scene" in the UK either. There are some good people but it is, at the end of the day, an industry that makes most of its bread and butter training people for licenses. They don't really care what you do after that. If you like bumbling around in a light aircraft then great, but if not (and I didn't) then it gets very boring very quickly. It was a means to an end for me that's all.
So, if you don't enjoy it quit. You can go back in later years if you feel you want to. Good luck.

[Pace]

Private jet

My recurrent on a N reg jet as a free lance pilot has just cost me $7200 plus airline ticked, hotels, car hire , food no change out of $10,000
An awful lot to get back before you even see a profit!
With the delay to 2015 for the EASA rubbish of dual licences unless a dead easy cost free route is worked out to keep me flying I too will step down!
I have some fabulous memories flying biz jets especially the ferry work but frankly it's all. Becoming too much of a hassle and an expensive one at that!
So maybe then just take some Cirrus hours as a private pilot Nd do more with my Scuba diving and photography

Even with the owners it's more like dragging blood out of a stone and more and more demands for what can be 18 hour days by the time you finish with all the taxis cars and trains
You would be better off as a plumber than a professional pilot
Pace

[mr_rodge]

Interesting thread. I'm in a similar situation:


Money tight due to setting up first home
First child on the way, due September
Only ever rented
Love flying, had a crack at aeros and loved it, but it's mainly a slow and expensive (yet incredibly pleasurable) mode of transport for me.
Gutted about having to hang up the headset, daren't look at the licence. Had a bit of heartache when I called Transair to cancel the chart subsription and when the AME sent me the reminder saying my class 2 was due.
Got disillusioned by renting, now I keep reading the mags, watching the forums and occasionally visit airfields by car.
I haven't flown for over a year, when I last flew it was a check in the circuit followed by an hour's jaunt over North Yorkshire, before that about 6 months between flights.


Now I have an 'ideal' which funnily enough I was going to post my own thread on. I'm unsure I'll ever earn enough to own a CofA outright but for me flying isn't an option unless I own at least an LAA mogas (or diesel?) 4 seat tourer with IFR kit outright. The 'ideal' consists of me, the other half (who is the best passenger I've ever flown with) and a 5 year old taking the tent into Europe instead of going on package holidays.

I'm now saving every spare penny towards this ideal, rather than doing what I view as 'frittering' the money on renting. Timescale? None, time I have. Timescale not necessary, just eventually. Realistic? Maybe not, but it's my ideal. We all have them.

The main threat to this (as I see it) is IFR & Night being permitted on Permit aircraft causing aircraft values to rocket, but that's another issue. Perhaps a more realistic threat is a second baby, which I won't rule out and which will always take priority.

In short I hate that I'm not flying now, but there's some comfort in knowing that I will be flying again in the future. In the meantime, maybe I'll dust off the old r/c planes I've had since I was 13 and see if they still fly. On second thoughts, I probably won't. House to fix ready for babies.

EDIT: Completely agree there are some arse holes on airfields. There are also people who, as grumpy as they are, make great friends.

[Aware]

thing hit the nail on the head I feel - why make it more emotive than it needs to be no big deal to quit anything if you don't have the energy or desire to continue.

[mary meagher]

Why giving up IS a big deal! Quitting would be a big deal.

Because if you are a pilot, you have made the grade. (funny how often I manage to mention this fact to people I meet....yes, I am a pilot. I am exceedingly proud to be a pilot. I will always be a pilot, even though I can no longer fly solo or instruct)

So don't quit, take a break. Family comes first. Dont insist on taking the sprogs flying, they get sick and bored.

You can always come back to flying, even after twenty or thirty years the skill is still there, rusty but renewable. When the kids are leaving home, (if they ever do!) more time, more money, more opportunity. If they don't leave home they should at least pay rent, so they'll appreciate the roof over their heads!

[GBEBZ]

I started studying my ATPL Exams at 36, just for fun (!), and will sit them in a few months... amazing how much you DONT know as a PPL !!!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I started studying my ATPL Exams at 36, just for fun (!), and will sit them in a few months... amazing how much you DONT know as a PPL !!!

But how much of that is relevant to a VFR SEP PPL?

[colmana]

Listen mate ..

I am 53 started flying at 24 have had several breaks sometimes 3 or 4 years , have lost friends in accidents, had kids and brought them up, in my early days I could really not afford to rent from schools so just doing minimum hours to keep the PPL. During my lay offs ( with young children mainly ) I just accepted that maybe that was that ...but the urge always returned. I put aside my guilt about spending large sums on my self as I realized it was sanity for me life changes drastically when children arrive, I took out a hefty insurance policy and joined a group with a 172 had a bit more money and flew the arse off it.

Red tape and rising costs and falling income due to starting my own business and the recession left me wondering if it was sensible to fly an hour a month ...which was what I was down to..Meanwhile my now 18 year old son spent his accumulated wealth and some accumulated from me ! on an NPPl. Knowing he was going to hate renting and not going be able to afford to do so I decided to by an LAA machine a RANS S6 with a 912 Group A for 11K..

Why in gods name did I never do this before ? I fly when I want I spend hours doing safety stuff EFATO ,PFLs at little cost £22-25 ph, a 4hr + range at 100mph, it takes two hefty blokes full fuel and 50lb of baggage, I do my own repairs and so on ....This means I can really go anywhere 2 hours there and 2 back in a 172 even group owned costs way too much ...I spend many enjoyable hours passing my tips to my son and keeping him under my wing , and now he is giving me tips! . and telling me off. Were flying to the western Isles of Scotland this year for a week and I know we will have a ball .

I have felt all the things the OP has mentioned, the key is to get away from schools and rentals ..there is far more to flying. I made a simple easy cross country last week to land for free at Boston on well kept grass a mere bimble for me ..do you know what it was one of the best ever flights, at home in the air in my own flying machine doing it right for once and even proud of my landings..because they were rather good and ever so grateful to have the health just enough wealth and the knowledge that its a privilege. In my 25 years or so of flying I can truthful say that the last 18 months have been the best, the responsibility of owning and maintaining an aeroplane was one thing, ensuring I did not pass bad habits to my son made me hit the books and brush up my flying ...how crap I was .

Yep over the years I have been skint -bored- scared to death -over confident -under confident-disinterested and let my licence lapse ....but me and flying were old friends now we can pick up where we left off...any time.

So can you OP... enjoy your family enjoy your flying it will be there if you want it if you don't no sweat .. But join a group or something.

[gasman123]

Hi Paul, I was in a very similar position to yours a few years ago and I have stopped power flying - there are some aspects of my decision I am happy with, some that I am not.

6 years ago I got my PPL. I struggled to maintain the amount of flying that I need ed to do to keep "safe" due to a combination of cost(its a bit hard to spend an evening on the internet trying to save £100-£200 on the family holiday then blow the same amount the next day in an hour), plus, after the real challenge of getting the PPL the £200 coffee became less interesting. I would have liked to have taken things further, but aeros/ IMC etc all cost a lot of money to do.

Safety - whilst, when I passed my PPL, I was very current and could fly in my sleep, I found that, flying fewer hours, the basics of flying a plane took more of my attention, leaving less for the feared engine fire/failure. Similar thoughts and concerns for my family as you are having added to the situation.

Just before my 2 years renewal I was one hour short then had a transient medical problem that stopped me flying briefly - end result no renewal.

Anyway, about 2 years after I booked on a gliding course on a bit of a whim, and loved the new challenge. The concept of having an hours flying with an instructor for less than £30 was incredible, and the club atmosphere (so lacking in power flying) was very stimulating. I also believe that gliding is much safer than power flying, and, having been through both routes, that glider pilots are much more skilled at handling an aeroplane. Plus any fear of landing without an engine is far offset by losing the engine failure/ fire concern. I am now progressing through the ranks and, paradoxically, the more flying I do the cheaper it gets - flying for a couple of hours for £8 can't be beaten.

My PPL has now lapsed - 6 years - and I actually very much regret this. I know that I will never invest the time and money to do it again. What I wish I had done was to have gained a TMG (touring motor glider) rating on my PPL, then kept up my licence flying a TMG - this would have kept my PPL at a much reduced cost. I could then have kept the option to fly TMGs or tugs (or my dormant dream of a spitfire...) later on. But now I can't and I am kicking myself.

I know many people here have extolled the virtues of gliding, and I agree with them- however with a young family it is very time inefficient, but in a more pleasantly inefficient way than your power issues - much more helping out and chewing the cud in-between flights than in your power clubhouse when you have to wait. Still politics around, but generally in a pleasant atmosphere with interesting people, who are all interested ion the same thing as you.

So what I am saying is- back off till you have more time but possibly try to eek your license along in as cheap a format as possible by gaining a rating that allows you to maintain your PPL in a cheaper type. Spoil yourself if you get the chance by booking a week's course in a gliding club (there are several glider pilots with young families but I accept that I wasn't ready to make that kind of commitment at your stage) - but don't lose your PPL, you may well live to regret it.

Don't forget that you have 5 years after your last renewal before it is "game over" - another way is to get your renewal, not fly for 4 years then invest in a few hours to get up to speed and do your skills test again. This buys you another 5 years. You don't need to do the writtens again. You need to check the new EASA regs though.

[A le Ron]

Some people are addicted to aviation. If you're not, then you can make choices. But at 180 hours you have done a huge amount, in rented aircraft. Economically and practically, some form of ownership would almost certainly suit you better and result in a completely different flying experience and perspective. I think. :ok: