Air Training Corps – Then and Now

[Q-RTF-X]

I was an ATC cadet in latter 50’s before entering the Air Force as a Boy Entrant at only a little over the age of 15; I’ve been involved with aviation ever since. When I joined the ATC my squadron was lacking an instructor for the .303 Browning, a curriculum subject in those days. My father had served as an Air Gunner in WW2 (Tail End Charlie on Lancasters) so I approached my CO putting forward my father as a candidate to fill the void. The CO pounced on the opportunity and before he realized what had happened, father was enlisted a civilian instructor on the squadron. By the time I shipped out to become a Boy Entrant, father was the civilian adjutant; later to be commissioned and ultimately the Squadron Commander. I have happy memories of my ATC days and follow with interest, from a distance, changes in the organization. Squadron facilities seem to have improved, as has the rather dreadful uniform and the addition of the fairer sex adds a new dimension. The uniformed instructor rank system seems to have changed significantly while the content of “summer camps” seems to have diluted. Flying and gliding training has been restructured while “air experience flights” seem to have almost withered on a tree. I think there will be many in this forum with ATC experience and perspectives. I’m (hopefully) inviting a general discussion on the merit of changes in the organization and also any experiences that may be offered, humorous tales especially welcome. I have no particular agenda except to be interested in getting a better feel for all the water that has passed under the bridge and enjoying the odd yarn.

[DC10RealMan]

My observations as a Civilian Instructor on my local Squadron is that today the Air Training Corps is a youth movement for young people which prepares them for life and not just a recruitment tool for the RAF.
This rationale is much more in line with life in the 21st Century with a contraction of the RAF and consequent vacancies few and far between.

There is a wide ranging scale of activities suited to young people which equips them for the experiences of further education and the working environment in addition to the military lifestyle

If they have an interest specifically in Aviation it can be accounted for by utilizing other sources and not just military ones, for example I have just spent the day with our local cadets as guests of the Shropshire Aero Club at Sleap Aerodrome who made them very welcome and allowed them to visit all the facilities including the various club aircraft whilst watching the annual Golding-Barrett Aerobatic Trophy.

Please don't worry about the future of the Air Training Corps as it is in safe hands with dedicated cadets and staff and I, as an adult have to say it is a privilege to be associated with such fine young people.

[muppetofthenorth]

For those who are interested, Ray Kidd has written a history of the ATC ('Horizons - The History of the Air Cadets').

Know Ray through my own past with the ATC. Living legend doesn't do him justice.

News article here (http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/11217719.Air_Cadet_history_book_is_taking_off/)

Large South American river link here

[Phil_R]

This is going to sound terribly like smoke-blowing, but I've encountered groups of air cadets on a few occasions and always been impressed. My line of work means I'm often out and about with a big, noticeable broadcast camera on my shoulder, which generally attracts attention of the "hello, mum" variety. On one occasion I was shooting at an event where some members of the ATC were in attendance and in contrast to the norm they took an interest, approached, patiently and politely asked questions and ended up getting a brief lesson in camera operation (with, of course, permission from their terrifying flight sergeant).

I'm not a big fan of kids, ordinarily, Good grief, I remember thinking, teenagers I don't immediately dislike (scouts are, in my experience, not nearly as pleasant a group of people).

You really do have to do something about the awful skirt-and-sensible-shoes combo on the girls, though. They look rough enough on actual RAF women, where they tend to at least fit, let alone kids. It doesn't look smart, it doesn't look martial, it just looks like a poorly-funded 1950s reenactment group.

P

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Not enough flying now - nowhere near enough. Desperately false economy by the Governments (UK & Canada). I've been volunteering with the local Sea Cadets recently -at least they get to sail a lot.

[smujsmith]

1122 (Marmion) Squadron was my initiation to military perspective. Coming from a small Staffordshire village which offered the option of work on the local farms, or leave. As a young lad I was fascinated by Biggles, the Dambusters and all the other tales of derring do of the Royal Air Force. Luckily, between working as a lad on the farm, going to school, playing trombone in the school band, my mother had the time to drive me to the ATC on a Friday night, and collect me later (I usually had to be up at 0400 on Saturday to get the cows in for milking). You will no doubt be wondering what all this rambling is on about. Well, 1122 (Marmion) Squadron made a big enough impression on me to make me apply for a Halton Apprenticeship, which I got, and never regretted. Chipmunk flying from Shawbury, gliding at Tern Hill. Summer Camp at RAF Ouston, all still happy memories of my days as a member. Its nice to hear that the ATC still operates, and good that it serves a wider base than in my day, when a love of RAF history, and its aircraft was key. Good luck for the future to all, but Particularly 1122 Squadron, Staffordshire's finest IMHO.

Smudge:ok:

[airborne_artist]

My middle daughter is now 23 and was in the ATC for six years from 11 to 17.

She flew plenty: gliding, AEF and in service aircraft. She went on several camps and attained all three Duke of Edinburgh awards. She gained considerable awareness, both of others and herself, discovered and developed an ability to motivate and organise people, and represented the Wing at swimming and running, as well as playing football and hockey at squadron level.

The all round personal capability and capacity that she built up propelled her to spend seven months traveling the world after her A-levels, entirely self-funded. She now has a very good 2.1 from Bristol and is teaching English in a remote town in Equador.

I'd say the ATC was doing pretty well.

[Exascot]

I was a civilian instructor back in the 70s. No girlies then though :{

I taught radio and radar. The only exam I failed on my ATPL :ugh:

Got 100% on the re-take, I refuse to say how I achieved that :O

[ancientaviator62]

I too was in the ATC. I still have my F3822 ! I was in 2214 Usworth Sqn conveniently located across the road from the then RAF Usworth. My pal worked their as a 'tarmac hand' before he joined the RAF. So I always got a 'heads up' whenever there was flying to be had. I also earned 'my keep' by cleaning the a/c etc. I did so much flying that some of the other cadets complained. So the CO forbade me to fly without his permission. On the advice of one of the DUAS instructors I still flew but always 'forgot' to get my F3822 signed.
In those days flying was still an adventure but kids have been to the moon and back from their armchairs and there are innumerable other distractions.

[Old-Duffer]

Smujsmith might like to know that 1122 (Tamworth) Sqn ATC is alive and (generally) well and living in Moor Street Tamworth. It is one of the 32 squadrons in the Staffordshire Wing ATC, whose 'footprint' extends from Buxton down into the West Midlands.


I joined as a cadet in 1958 and moved on to the RAF in 1963. After 31 years, during which time I was Air Cadets Liaison Officer at several units, I left regular service and went back to being a civilian volunteer and then returned to uniform as a VR(T) officer. Much to my surprise and despite my antiquity, I was 'signed on' for another year recently.


The cadet forces are a wonderful group of youth organisations and the regular forces love them. Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience. Whatever they do, they frequently outshine supposedly better candidates. How many teenagers going for a job interview can boast a Gold DofE, four BTECs, a Sports Leadership award and - oh by the way - have soloed in a glider, just returned from an overseas camp or expedition and wear the red lanyard from the Junior Leaders Course. I wish I could start all over again!!!


The cadet forces, however, need adults to make it happen. So whether you are ex-service or not, why not search out your nearest cadet centre and as the TV game show slogan used to say - come on down!


Old Duffer

[Yellow Sun]

Old-Duffer:

Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience.

I think that you have summed up very well the major difference in the cadet force you first joined and today's organisation. Then, the large majority of adults had service experience, now they are in a minority. One could argue that this in keeping with the change of role in 1962(?) from pre-service training organisation to MoD sponsored youth organisation and the later withdrawal of the then Inspectorate of Recruiting (IoR) from its direct involvement with the cadet forces. The character of the cadet forces has changed quite significantly over the years.

One has to question whether the current models are the correct and appropriate in today's environment. The ACF, ATC and SCC have quite different structures. The CCF stands apart from the other three. There really is a case for a common model and maybe even a more "Joint" approach to the cadet forces. A looser system more akin to the SCC may even appeal given the MoD's almost total aversion to any risk in this field.

YS

[gr4techie]

I've fond memories of looping in Chipmunks, firing a bolt action .303 converted to .22, trying to memorise all the different types of aircraft the RAF had back then and camps to Bruggen and Laarbruch.

Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience.

In might be testament to the RAF's training, but my opinion differs... I find it difficult to guess who in the RAF was an Air Cadet and who wasn't. From my experiences, after a few weeks everyone in the RAF was at the same standard.

[longer ron]

In might be testament to the RAF's training, but my opinion differs... I find it difficult to guess who in the RAF was an Air Cadet and who wasn't. From my experiences, after a few weeks everyone in the RAF was at the same standard.

One of the differences would be that ex ATC cadets were generally keen on aircraft and flying... during my 40+ years both in the RAF and aircraft industry etc only a low percentage of employees had any real interest in aircraft and flying !

rgds LR

[gr4techie]

Longer Ron, I've met many who were enthusiastic to start with but the morale was soon sucked out of them.

[longer ron]

GR4techie
Sorry I was not talking about work attitude per se but more along the lines that ex ATC cadets are generally aircraft enthusiasts and keen on the flying side,where I work has probably the highest percentage of enthusiasts I have ever worked with but that is still probably only maybe 5% of the workforce.
In my experience the great majority of engineering techs etc have no real interest in flying !

[Q-RTF-X]

What encouraging replies so far, all generally positive and nice to read; thanks to those who have replied thus far. The comments and observations all have their individual slant and most suggest the ATC is very much alive and well, albeit with a broader horizon.


While the source does not steam from my most favourite newspaper, the following link documents a tale of fortitude, grit and determination (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2441484/Brave-Air-Cadet-15-marches-time-amputation-ends-years-pain.html) while at the same time providing a good example of the broader social perspective the ATC now brings to the table by catering to the goals and vision held by a very plucky young lady.


A personal experience of days gone by: I was really desperate to get a “jet flight” during a summer camp at Shawbury but, was told all available slots taken, I was however given one of those “nudge nudge wink wink” hints that said were I to be in a position the following Monday ASAP then PERHAPS. I lived in Cheshire so at 0 dark hundred the following Monday donned my uniform and successfully hitchhiked back to Shawbury and presenting myself once more; before I knew what was happening I found myself being briefed by a rather elderly Polish flight sergeant before wandering out to a Meteor T7 for the first of TWO trips that morning. I was able to hitch back home in reasonable time to confess what I had been up to. I was told I was walking around like the cat that licked the cream for days ! I doubt that sort of flexibility would be available today (more's the pity).

[*Zwitter*]

358 squadron from 1986 to 1990.

ALL we ever did was bloody drill again and again. Apart from 1990 when we got to go to Oshkosh, flying from Mildenhall to Dover AFB on a C5 Galaxy.

That was fair compensation for all the drill!

Forward winding to now, we get the local cadets to clean our aircraft and all are polite and well-behaved young types. Restores my faith in the future etc.

[Flap Track 6]

84 Squadron based at Coventry (Baginton) airport in the early eighties. Rose to the heady rank of First Class cadet and came first in the annual aircraft recognition contest one year. Went gliding at Little Rissington once.
I remember that all the cadets were there because they wanted to join the RAF. I did too, but the cadets made me realise that me and the military weren't going to get on. Ironically, one lad in my class at school is now an Air Cdre and I don't remember him being in the ATC.

[MPN11]

144 (Richmond) Sqn, which I joined after leaving school and the CCF. Subsequently, briefly, a CI before heading for OCTU and the 'real world'
Sadly my F3822 is a few thousand miles away, as I'm in the USA right now. All I can enumerate for now is many happy days (and nights) that gave me a serious focus when the temptations of Richmond, Surrey, in the Swinging 60s might have led me severely astray!! I may be inspired to do a Danny42C story when I get home early next month, if this thread is still running.

I know I gained many benefits from the ATC. I believe the ATC made me a much better person in the process.

[Deskex76]

2381 (Ilminster) Sqn late 70s. Taught me an awful lot. COs ex-RAF Airfield Construction Service and ex-FAA Corsair pilot. 2 I/c ex-Blues & Royals, so we were pretty good at drill. My first F3822 even had the wrong date of birth so that I could fly from Filton the weekend after I joined..

Besides the usual Summer Camps (Binbrook in 76 is the one of which I have the fondest memories), AEF, Gliding, D of E, sport, Wing a/c recce and so forth, we sent teams to the Nijmegen marches most years (and what a great experience that was - especially the way the regulars of all nations treated us). We manned the VIP enclosure at the Silver Jubilee airshow at Exeter so I got to meet the Reds and sit in the cockpit of a BBMF Spitfire PR XXIX. We even had a co-located GVC unit towards the end of the decade - what was there not to like? Making it to CWO didn't do any harm at OASC time, either.

Delighted to hear that the Corps has evolved to keep itself relevant to today's generation. Every time I see current cadets in action, whether helping out at airshows, at parades or up to something else in public they are a credit to their uniform and help to restore my faith in the youth of today. Let's hope that, like so many of the posters on this forum, they will be able to look back years later with so many fond memories. Long may the Organisation continue to prosper.

[fincastle84]

1960-66 until I went to RAFC to commence Nav training. First flight in a Chipmunk at Newton. Gliding course at Spitalgate, Saturday nights in the NAAFI looking after the homesick WAAF recruits!!

Trip to Singapore in March '63, out in a Brit, back on the gorgeous Comet 4c.

4 weeks in the USA in '65 followed by my Chipmunk course for my PPL at Castle Donnington.

My final year was spent instructing at the Sqn detached flight in Buxton.

Happy, happy days which prepared me very well for 28 happy years in the RAF.:ok:

[NDW]

231 Norwich Sqn. 2003/4-2008 - a cracking 4 years on a fantastic squadron.
Sadly, the RAF wasn't to be, however still in Aviation as an Air Traffic Control Assistant.
I'd recommend the cadets to any youngster!!

[seafire6b]

Truly great days, I loved it. Twice-weekly ATC squadron "parade nights" were the usual drill & "bull", but then with lectures on map-reading, air navigation, theory of flight, basic mechanics and first aid, etc etc. Aircraft recognition and shooting (trusty Lee Enfield .303 of course!) contests against other ATC squadrons, led by dedicated officers and cadet-NCO's, all of whom motivated us cadets to function as a team. That in itself cannot have been easy, bearing in mind our very disparate backgrounds and some inevitable intra-cadet "needling".

The Annual Wing Inspections were always welcomed because it always included a sweetener of 45 minutes in a Hastings, Beverley or - modern times - an Argosy! The summer camps at RAF stations were even better, being treated as young adults in the barrack room, the mess, the NAAFI and the Astra cinema, whilst we (usually!) attempted to live up to expectations.

One particularly memorable camp at Oakington, a pal and I happened to be in the right place at the right time and an officer asked if we'd like(!!!) to spend the morning flying as "ballast" in a Varsity on a nav-training exercise! Thus we spent more than three hours stooging around over eastern England at around 5000ft - great. Followed by another similar stint after lunch!

My solos in the Kirby Cadet and Slingsby Sedburgh really whetted my appetite for powered flight - in a Chipmunk obviously, towards a PPL and "Wings".

I joined the ATC aged 13, then very soon discarded my Scouts' shorts and beret, and remained with the ATC until I neared 18. However, great comrades and lifetime memories to this day - and I was set for my airline career!

[thing]

Wasn't a cadet, always seemed a bit nerdy to me as a hippy flower child. I have of course revised my opinion since then. There was one ex cadet on my IT course at Swinderby, seemed a nice enough lad but wouldn't say he was any more fitted than the rest of us.

Longeron: I too was amazed as a techie that other a/c engineering type guys weren't in the least bit interested in flying or aircraft. That's what I joined up for, to be part of the aviation world. Never figured that one out. Bit like joining the submarine fleet and not being interested in submarines. Or maybe some people enjoy doing jobs they aren't interested in. Makes it more of a challenge I suppose.

[airspace alpha]

Jeez- its amazing how many of you kept your Form 3822.... I'm looking at mine now. 131 Sqdn (Newcastle on Tyne). First flight in Varsity WL682(F) on a night navex from Gaydon. I vividly remember lying flat in the bomb aimers pannier watching as we skimmed over the clouds at dawn. Still in aviation 38 years later.

[longer ron]

Hi Thing

Wasn't a cadet, always seemed a bit nerdy to me as a hippy flower child. I have of course revised my opinion since then. There was one ex cadet on my IT course at Swinderby, seemed a nice enough lad but wouldn't say he was any more fitted than the rest of us.


I only joined the ATC for one reason - to fly :)
Chippies at Newton (lovely airfield to fly from !) and also Cambridge (not quite as exciting) and Gliding at Spitalgate - later to do a gliding course at age 16 - all that lovely free flying.The next year (1970) I joined the RAF as a brat and was on the staff of 613 GS Halton - so more free flying and also the pleasure of taking cadets on AEF flights :)
Funnily enough most of my Chipmunk flying was during my 'last tour' at Abingdon on UEF - the 2 separate flight lines were run by a corporal and I used to prefer being on the one that did ULAS and 6 AEF,if there were no cadets to fly - bingo :) I used to go and then face the flak from the Flt Sgt later on LOL

Longeron: I too was amazed as a techie that other a/c engineering type guys weren't in the least bit interested in flying or aircraft. That's what I joined up for, to be part of the aviation world. Never figured that one out. Bit like joining the submarine fleet and not being interested in submarines. Or maybe some people enjoy doing jobs they aren't interested in. Makes it more of a challenge I suppose

Yes bit of a puzzler - but some of the best structure guys I have met have had absolutely zero interest in aviation :cool:.

[chevvron]

I served with 2204 (Chesham) Sqdn from the age of 13/9 in 1962, became a CI after being CWO, commisioned in '79; all with 2204 until I was posted to 1811 (Marlow) Sqdn in 1983 as Officer Commanding.
One of the other cadets (a sergeant) when I joined was Brian Lecomber, the author and aerobatic pilot, whilst another was the less well known Chris Rollings, who became a BGA coach and gliding champion.
I got myself on a gliding course shortly after my 16th birthday and did well enough to be taken on as a staff cadet (613 VGS Halton). I didn't quite make it to 'C' Cat instructor before work commitments caused me to leave, however one of the other staff cadets who was also on 2204 Sqdn started a career in civil Air Traffic Control and without his influence I would probably not have considered this as a career for myself.
I retired from Air Traffic Control just over 5 years ago having served at RAE/DRA/TAG Farnborough for 34 years and flown in many types of aircraft. (eg Hunter, Hawk, Wessex, Lynx, Puma).
I am convinced that my experience as an ATC cadet inspired me in my later career and I devoted many years as adult staff (my last post being Wing Gliding Liaison Officer which I left in 1997) 'repaying' the Corps for all it did for me.

[beerdrinker]

Not just ATC but Air Cadets also. I was lucky enough to go to a school that had an RAF Section of the CCF.

Great fun. Camps and AEF. Culminating in a Gliding Camp at RAF Kirton in Lindsey which was memorable for two reasons. One - I fell in love with a WAAF and Two - I went solo illegally. We got to the end of the camp and a few of us were asked if there was any reason why we could not stay on to do our A & B. I said "No", so stayed on. The Instructors sent me solo in the Mk23(?). Nobody asked me my age; so I told nobody that I was 15. (Age limit then was 16).

Then the next year I managed too get through Biggin Hill and was selected to do my Flying Scholarship at Carlisle. On my check out ride the CFI (Davico) asked me what I was planning to do. I said: "Be a lawyer". He said "I don't think so". So I applied to Hamble and had a great 34 year career.

It is really quite amazing how many of my colleagues had gone through the Flying Scholarship route into an aviation career. Not just colleagues. My son went through the CCF and got a Flying Scholarship and is now a Fast Jet Pilot.

Air Cadets - a great institution.

BD

[smujsmith]

Aahh Longer Ron,

Absolutely your memories are mine. Although I was posted to the strength of OUAS, I worked wherever Trevor Plumb (the Flt Sgt) sent me. So like you, as a Cpl, running the 6 AEF ground support, any shortage of cadets, would always find me as a willing volunteer. 77 to 79 was my short tour on UEF before promotion and posting to FRS (71 MU). Did we coincide ?

Smudge

[longer ron]

Hi Smudge
No - I was 1980 - 83
I requested ULAS as my last tour and then of course found out that the reality was UEF (University Engineering Flight) ISTR that our manning to look after the 7 Chippies was 0.75 of a bloke :)
But the VR pilots were wonderful gentlemen and I personally used to try hard to help them as much as poss - all of us posted to UAS's came off jets and it certainly took some adjusting - esp for the Sumpies :)
The Flt Sgt was not TP by the time I arrived :*

[MMHendrie1]

Became a cadet in 1964, a Civilian Instructor in 1969 and a VR(T) officer in 1970. Joined the RAF as a pilot in 1971; secondary duty during my first tour was as Air Cadet Liaison Officer.

Retired after 34 years in 2005 and joined the RAF Reserve to work full-time with the Air Cadets for three years. Also 6 years as a volunteer Civilian Gliding Instructor.

The Air Cadets was, and still is in my opinion, the premier youth organisation in the UK manned for the most part by incredibly committed volunteers who sometimes go unappreciated by full-time members of their parent organisation.

Long may the Air Cadet Organisation thrive!

www.wingedwarriors.co.uk (http://www.wingedwarriors.co.uk/)

[PARALLEL TRACK]

2121(Abingdon) Sqn, part of OBB Wing 1975 to 1980. Hairy Mary uniforms! Annual Camps to Wattisham and Wyton. Visited 12 other RAF, AAC and RNAS stations. 20 types flown in - Hercules, VC-10, Chipmunk, Belfast, Britannia, Alouette, Islander, Sioux, Gazelle, Beaver, Scout, Pembroke, Puma, Wessex, HS125, Andover, Argosy, Sea Devon, Whirlwind, Nimrod . Quite a few more types since but they would give the game away.
What an introduction to the RAF and life in general. Long may it continue.

[pulse1]

When I joined the ATC in about 1954 1092 sqdn was attached to the Air Sea Rescue station in Porthcawl. This was before helicopters took over the SAR role and, because Porthcawl was tidal, launches had to put to sea every low water there was flying in the area. They couldn't get back in to harbour until the tide came back in. The launches weren't proper ASR launches but were sea plane tenders and not really suitable for the rough waters of the Bristol Channel so, although cadets were sometimes invited to go along, I never did.

We eventually moved to new premises in Bridgend and I went to camps in Hawarden (first flight in a Chipmunk), Driffield, Andover and Benson. The best flying we could get was unofficially at nearby RAF Llandow. Although it was an RAF station the security was provided by MOD police and they would let is in if we were wearing uniforms and we eventually learned who to see to get some flying. Some of my fellow cadets lived very close and were able to get regular flights in a wide variety of aircraft like Meteors, Shackletons, and Mosquitos. Personally I managed to get flights in a Lincoln bomber, a USAF C119, dropping paratroopers, and a Pembroke.

My next experience with the ATC was as a civilian instructor in a detached flight in Bedford. This flight was attached to the squadron at Cardington and met in a local school and had no equipment at all. The CO was a lovely old chap who did his best but, for the kids, it was just like going to school. One night we raided the unit at Cardington and "borrowed" as much kit as we could carry. I ended up having a Bren gun and a blind flying panel in my bedroom. I used to carry these to the school for the parade nights. Can you imagine carrying a Bren gun through the streets today?

We also discovered a lot of cash which was available for trips. We arranged trips to Oakington for night flying in Varsities and a day trip to Wittering which was then a base for Victors with Blue Steel missiles on permanent standby.

During my time in Bedford I had learned to glide (civilian) and when I moved down to the South coast I discovered that membership of the local ATC gliding school qualified me to join the Boscombe Down flying club (Bustards) where I could learn to fly a beautiful Tiger Moth. So I signed up to become a ATC gliding instructor and obtained my PPL and C category instructors rating in that order. Great days!

[chanter]

2365 ( Brechin ) squadron, first flight experience in the mighty Chipmunk during summer camp at Abingdon.
It was during that summer camp that we visited the Jaguar Major Servicing Unit and that set me off with an interest in aircraft engineering which I've spent 36 fantastic years both in the Royal Air Force and in civil aviation.
So thank you to the Air Training Corps and long may it continue

[tezzer]

Was the Wing Commander (from memory) of Central and East Yorkshire Wing, when I was a part of the ATC in the 70's. A great man.

I did 1972 to 1978 with 399 (Beverley) Sqn. Great days (and nights) taught me a great deal about life and responsibility, I'm sure without a doubt it shaped me.

[tezzer]

Oh, and Ray Kidd's book bought, can't wait for it to arrive !

[snapper41]

I was a cadet - 2507 Bicester Sqn in the late 70s/ early 80s. Plenty of flying and gliding, plus a fantastic camp at Binbrook, and also Gibraltar. 26 years in the RAF, and then became a civilian instructor with the ATC last year to 'give something back', as the saying goes. The cadets seem better disciplined than we were - any instruction from a cadet NCO is greeted with a hearty 'YES Corporal', and they salute the uniformed staff so often that it makes me dizzy - they need to adopt the 'salute once' approach of the RAF! I'm very impressed with the cadet NCOs - mature teenagers with a strong sense of respect and leadership. I have to say that I'm less impressed with the uniformed staff; the adult NCOs hardly ever turn up, and the communication to the CIs is almost non-existent. Maybe I expect too much from the VRs?

[tezzer]

My old dad, was in the VR(T), I remember him as a Pilot Officer with 152 (City of Hull ) Sqn, then promotion to Flying Officer, then Flt. Lt, when he took over at 399 (Beverley) Sqn.

Ray Kidd was on the Staff at HQ Central and East Yorks Wing, and I see from the newspaper article promoting his book, he lives in Osbaldwick. How sad that he lived only a mile and a half from where my proud father lived and ultimately died, a sad and lonely man, I'm sure if he knew, they would have got on like the two old friends that they were.

[smujsmith]

Longer Ron,

No probs with your later tour on UEF. ISTR the replacement for Trevor Plumb as Flt Sgt was a bloke endowed with a very fine moustache, though I forget his name. I wonder if such characters as Clem Clements, Geordie Easton and Pete Falcon were still there? It was a smashing couple of years, and helped me form a far better opinion of our Commissioned brethren than I had when I got there, from Cranwell. Whatever, it felt like a private Air Force to me, and the occasional trip in a Chippy or Dog absolutely made my day. Here's to the QFI's and VR pilots who gave us that experience. I certainly know the smile on the faces of the young ATC cadets getting out of the Chippies made up for the extra weekends we occasionally got walloped with, and as an ex ATC Cadet I could put myself in their positions.

Smudge :ok:

[Wander00]

Was a CCF cadet for 5 years, flew in Anson, Varsity, Chipmunk, Dominie (two wings not 2 jets), Dragonfly, Whirlwind: then flying scholarship. had a 6 month gap between school and Towers so Ruislip ATC Sqn took me on, and I did a gliding course. Was ACLO during first (and only) flying tour. After leaving the RAF first time in 1969 became a VR(T) officer at 1094 City of Ely Sqn, until I moved and joined the TA. IMHO, the Air Cadet Organisation is one of the best youth organisations going. Did a tremendous amount for me, and continues to do so for modern youngsters. Long may it flourish.

[easyflyerema]

First post on this site so I'll keep it short....

2070 squadron Glenfield, Leicestershire. I was in from 1978 to 1981, flying in Chipmunks. My eldest son was in the same squadron from 1998 to 2001 and flew in Bulldogs.

And my late father was in the founding squadron 1F in Leicester before the second world war. His memories of flying in the tigermoth were a joy to hear!!

Great days!!!

[cornish-stormrider]

aaaaaah fun times.
mostly.
joined in 88, gilded illegally that weekend as was a couple of weeks shy of the date.
summer camp at portreath, Chippy out of St Mawgan, flew over mums house.
much flying and gliding. shooting and climbing and ten tors.
wing colours for Rugby. 4 yrs running.
2 back to back trips on the flying pie wagon - first experience of honkers.
Trips to Gib,
Herc's out of Lyneham

set me right up for auntie's flying circus.

If i didn't work crappy shifts I'd go back and teach as a CI.
I can still recite a fair bit of Gas Turbines

to all those instructing and teaching and leading - BZ, keep up the good work

[longer ron]

No probs with your later tour on UEF. ISTR the replacement for Trevor Plumb as Flt Sgt was a bloke endowed with a very fine moustache,
Dunno if it was the same guy but the encumbent whilst I was there was the only guy on the sqn to call the Cadet Pilots (and APO's) 'Sir' :)

I wonder if such characters as Clem , Geordie and Pete were still there?

Yes they were all still there :)

Here's to the QFI's and VR pilots who gave us that experience. I certainly know the smile on the faces of the young ATC cadets getting out of the Chippies made up for the extra weekends we occasionally got walloped with, and as an ex ATC Cadet I could put myself in their positions.


One of the students whilst I was there was the son of the AOC (BB) - and he was a very nice guy - as were the majority of the APO's and CP's

We worked alternate weekends during my time there !
The BBMF diverted in on one saturday,and on sunday morning one of the Chippie pilots was looking round the Hurri inside the hangar (in best blue- rare sight for us ! he had a fair chestful of medals :)) - I said to him ''spose you flew these during the war''...he replied ''nah I was on spits'' :ok:

[longer ron]

Also whilst I am thinking of those times - I really admired the Chippie pilots - esp during the winter months prior to the heater mod.

At 6 AEF we had a really dedicated bunch (same as other AEF's I am sure)

I saw O B H literally blue from cold as he parked waiting for the next cadet.
AEF flying was (and still is) a great place to find dedicated pilots.
It was (and is) quite the norm to see the boss retire as a regular Sqn Ldr and be back the next day as a VR Fg Off - in my time at 6 AEF this happened with DG !
I reckon he must have really enjoyed the chance to fly up front for a change :)
We also had an Air Traffic Master Pilot join us for his resettlement course on the Chippies - once requalled - he was back the next day as a VR Fg Off :)

[Mick Strigg]

398 Staines & Egham Sqn; I thank you! You nurtured my interest in aviation, gave me great experiences, taught me well, but most of all, I thank you for putting me off joining the RAF! I joined the FAA instead; the best decision I ever made.

[Gerontocrat]

It was (and is) quite the norm to see the boss retire as a regular Sqn Ldr and be back the next day as a VR Fg Off - in my time at 6 AEF this happened with DG !
I reckon he must have really enjoyed the chance to fly up front for a change :)
We also had an Air Traffic Master Pilot join us for his resettlement course on the Chippies - once requalled - he was back the next day as a VR Fg Off :)

I once had occasion to ring an AEF and ask to speak to Fg Off Sir Patrick - aka, until a short time previously, ACM Sir Patrick Hine.

[Wander00]

Fg Off Sir C......C...... as well I believe

[Gerontocrat]

In the summer of 1976, between finishing university and the start of IOT, I was privileged to be posted to HQ Air Cadets, first at RAF Newton then out to Luqa as adjutant air cadet camps based at Hal Far.
A great summer during which I met, and enjoyed the company of, many good people.

[chopd95]

1860 (East Bristol) Sqdn

I thoroughly endorse all that has been said regarding the Uk's premier youth organisation.

The IACE (does it still exist?) was without doubt the "best of the best", a wonderful experience for a callow youth in 1965 to spend a month in Canada.

Possibly topped by the interview with school geography master who wanted to know why I would not be attending the 6th form Easter geography field trip.
"Sorry Sir, but I have a Flying Scholarship and will mostly be airborne at that time !!"

Thanks to all the great people who provided life-changing experiences.

[Wander00]

1961 - the BEST summer ever - left school a fortnight before the end of term for a month on Flying Scholarship - a few days at home then train to Scotland and the Moray Firth for Outward Bound Sea School. Returned to school a fortnight after term had started - all seemed a bit tame by comparison to the previous couple of months.

[diginagain]

152 (City of Hull) Sqn - as were both of my brothers - from 73 to 78, when rather than have another crack at OASC I joined the Army Air Corps, where among other things I reacquainted myself with Chippies.

More recently I volunteered my services to a local Sqn, and helped the youngsters win a Wing recognition competition at their first attempt. Sadly, work prevents further involvement.

[MPN11]

Fg Off Sir C......C...... as well I believe
Missing a couple of Cs, I assume, for brevity? ;)

[Prangster]

Speaking from the perspective of one who meandered up the ladder from dog collared skinny 14yr old to grizzled wing staff officer I was often struck by the wider values than just the recruiting aspects. From a personal perspective I always said that I my education was achieved despite my school not because of it and had the Corps not been there to catch me on the way down I'd never have achieved anything.

I lost count of the number of lads (when it was all lads) who blew in a little wild and marched out as useful citizens. In one purple patch the squadron (1300 Sutton in Ashfield) produced pilots, doctors, snipers, met man, navigators X 2, and a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society plus several who went on to highly successful civilian careers. I suspect that this is not at all unusual for some parts of the country but we were dealing with the 16th most deprived town a shattered mining economy and and at best bog standard local comprehensive schools.

The Corps continues to deliver for the whole community and my nearly 8 yr old grandson is already hanging his nose over the wall!

[air pig]

Mine was 7F (Aigburth) now 1st City of Liverpool Squadron. First annual camp in 1973 at Macrihanish, first time away from home at 14, well somebody had to go there, using an open ditch for pine pole exercises, and map reading exercises over the mountains, leaving someone in the night in their bed in the middle of the parade ground without them waking up. First experience of an airman's mess and RAF tea. Flying in the early evening and seeing Ireland in the distance was my first flight, and the 'lassie' supporters club at the weapons site and seeing the signs for SEAL team 6 on the station.

Later camps at Linton on Ouse and St Athan, missed Marham as a cadet and Valley and the best of all Waddington as a CI in 1981 and Tony B as the ACLO alias known as superfly. Only man to walk into the ATC office straight from flying in the Vulcan coal hole and still look suave.

Linton, having drill instruction under the watchful eye of that redoubtable SWO Mr Jack Holt.

Gliding in the 'barge' at Sealand and chippies at Woodvale under 10 AEF CO Squadron Leader Norman Rose.

Made many friends, now all gone their separate ways, some into the RAF many elsewhere, but still all have been members of the ATC squadron with the most continuous service since being formed from the ADCC. Many of our guys had come from diverse backgrounds, some from the better off areas of the city such as Aigburth and some from the hard lands of Toxteth, but the squadron brought them all together as one. Our cadet warrant officer from Toxteth, at one time surprised a teacher from his school by his presence and many of the schools pupils performing SLR drill on a parade, she saw a side of them she had no idea existed. As a squadron, we straightened many out and gave them direction in life and may have even kept them out of jail by giving them a surrogate family. Many tried to divide us but like the musketeers it was all for one, had many a disagreement on that basis.

[Arclite01]

2427 (Biggin Hill) Sqn 1979 - 1985. One of the few Squadrons with over 75 enrolled Cadets on the books.

Active station (sort of), our own personal airshow every year. Time spent with the Reds every year (they used our HQ as a canteen and briefing facility), flights on the Herc, VC10 at Brize, the Chippies at Manston, Flight on the Hawk at TWU, 6 Annual Camps (at stations long gone - Manston, Lyneham, Hullavington, Binbrook, St Athan, Newton), Overseas camp at Gib, time in the Wokka (15 hours in a week at ODI - 1981), shooting for the Corps at Bisley 4 years in a row (.303), SLR training and LMG training with the Regiment, first solo in the Venture at Syerston, conversion to the Mk3, Sedburgh and later the Vanguard. Winning the Lees Trophy (remember that ??), Gold Duke of Edinburgh Award (meeting the Duke at St James' Palace and making my parents proud), Adventure training, canoeing and abseil. The list is endless. Ultimately I went to the TA, later came back to the Corps at a CI Gliding Instructor on several VGS. I am sure that, that is what the Corps is about. In those days it was much more of a recruiting and training aid for the services (not just the RAF), many of my compatriots went to the AAC, FAA or TA. With a reduced requirement the services don't need so many people, but the skills that the ATC teaches are not just service related - they are life skills and that is now what it's all about.

When I am recruiting people for my project teams I always look to see if they have been in the ATC on their CV......................

Just wish I'd taken more pictures :sad:

Arc

[tezzer]

I was fortunate enough to get on the Luqa / Hal Far trip that year, great times.

[thesuds]

Would this be the same C....C.... ex 2275 Sqn (Walton) and De La Salle grammar ? If so , didn't he do well ?

[air pig]

Ha, 7F had its own Air Rank officer in ACM Sir J... N........ :ok:

[chevvron]

It seems to me commendable that so many ex-cadets (myself included) found time to 'put something back' into the Corps when they became too old to be a cadet either becoming squadron staff or serving on a VGS. I spent a total of 36 years in the Corps and don't regret one minute of it, only to be cruelly 'retired' when I was well below the 55 year old age limit due to a Wing Commander who refused to accept that I was doing the minimum 8 hr/mth* even though my shiftwork stopped me attending the squadron - I had already handed over command to another person and as WGLO (Wing Gliding Liaison Officer) was visiting 2 VGS at weekends to ensure cadets from the 22 Squadrons I was responsible for were attending regularly and progressing in their training. For a short 6 week period, I even took on responsibility for another 9 squadrons at a third VGS.
* I suspect another reason was a microlight operation which both he and I were involved in but that's another story!!

[teeteringhead]

Winning the Lees Trophy (remember that ??) And it's still there!

Comdt starts inspecting the Regional Candidate Squadrons next week!

[ScrewballScramble]

2342 Sqn ATC - Innsworth 91-93
Annual camp to St Mawgan, won a trip in the Nimrod - 8 hours of clouds, blue sea, and that oily smell that still makes me smile today.
What surprised me most recently was someone telling me the gliding caravan the VGS at Abingdon use is the same one I used to sleep in at Little Rissington early 90s!

I think more from my squadron joined the Army than Air Force because of the Cold War draw down at the time - and the Chipmunks at Hullavington were a bit long in the tooth by then.

[chevvron]

Gib camp in 1982. A WO called Skard was with us; he'd been a rock ape for 22 years and retired as an SAC. When the rock squadron at Gib heard he was there, they sent signals round the world saying 'we've found him, he's here!'
Cyprus Camp 1986. The incoming camp following us were to be tented so we struggled to put up the campsite for them. After we departed (late because the Red Arrows were practicing and refused to allow our 737 to land) the 'new' camp spent one night, then were loaded onto a Hercules and sent home. The next night, the USAF bombed Libya. Every morning we had watched a TR1/U2 (which officially wasn't there) take off either in the direction of Libya or the direction of Lebanon.

[MPN11]

Returned from holiday, and reunited with my archives ...

Form B/CADETS 2, Record of Service CCF.
That seems to cover a busy life as a cadet (later Cpl) in the RAF Section, late 50s until Sep 62.
Camps at Binbrook, Tangmere and Jurby
Naval Aviation Courses at RNAS Culdrose, 60 and 61
Drill Course with the Irish Guards at Caterham, 61
Gliding Course at RAF Hawkinge, 61
Flying Scholarship, Kidlington, 62
How very Tri-Service!!

RAF F. 3822
After [leaving/being invited to leave] school, joined 144 (Richmond) Squadron ATC in Sep 62 and given the rank of sgt on the understanding I would take charge of the sqn 'band'.
International Air Cadet Exchange, 63 [accompanied by CCCC and others :) ]
Promoted FS, 63
Commandant Air Cadets Certificate of Good Service, 63
Left to join RN, Sep 63
I seem to have done quite well for just 12 months on the sqn!! Rejoined as a CI for a year before heading off to a more successful RAF career in 65.

My goodness, there are some memories tucked away in those two battered little books. AEF flights in Chipmunk, Anson, Whirlwind, Beverley, Twin Pioneer. One or two events and names remembered. The Cadet Organisations gave us lads so much good experience, and fun, and early responsibility. :ok:

[VX275]

What surprised me most recently was someone telling me the gliding caravan the VGS at Abingdon use is the same one I used to sleep in at Little Rissington early 90s!



Same type, not the same one. 612 VGs at Abingdon still have the same carvan they were issued from new back in the Venture days at RAF Benson. It was though refurbished last year (but without the air con that other VGS got. :()

[Wander00]

MPN11 - you and I may well have been on the same Cadet Naval Aviation course at Culdrose, although I wore light blue


W

[MPN11]

Wander00 ... I was light blue too :cool:

Culdrose Basic Course 14 - 20 Aug 60
Culdrose Advanced Course 2 - 8 Sep 61

Dust off your archive ... GO! :)

[Wander00]

MPN11 - second period I was on Outward Bound - may have been on same basic course - will PM later


W

[PierreM]

Joined in about 1959 and left in 1962 to join the Royal Air Force as an apprentice at RAF Locking.
Great time as a cadet:
- enjoyed the drill (!)
- enjoyed the day and night exercises 'playing' at soldiers in the local countryside, especially the challenges associated with map and compass navigation
- enjoyed firing the 303
- enjoyed local flying: including flying in a Chipmunk around the Kent coast and doing aerobatics above my home (to the envy of my sea cadet friends)
- enjoyed glider flying and gaining solo licence (although well under age)
- enjoyed learning about wireless comms and morse code (still reasonably proficient)
- enjoyed learning about radar.

I mention wireless and radar at the end because these were my over-riding areas of interest and why I joined the RAF. This was due in no small measure to the encouragement of one of the civilian instructors who gave so much of his time to share his own enthusiasm, including sharing his own amateur radio set with us, as well as the 1154/1155 service sets belonging to the squadron.

Sorry for the ramble but they were good days and it is about time I acknowledged them.

[N2erk]

MPN11- where did you do your International Cadet Exchange to in '63??

[Wander00]

Mate of mine called Bob Garrett did IACE in 62 or 63 to US or Canada. Must ask him which year and destination when I see him at a school reunion in a few weeks

[MPN11]

MPN11- where did you do your International Cadet Exchange to in '63??
US of A, the start of a long love affair with the Nation!

We flew in an RAF Britannia from Heathrow to RCAF Merville, FR, and onward to USAF Rhein-Main, GE, picking up extra bodies en route. Then USAF C-118 (DC-6) to Prestwick, Harman and finally NY for a few days.
Onward in a Saturn Airways DC-6 across America, dropping off small groups people as we went ... Indianapolis, Chicago, Des Moines, Sioux Falls, Helena, Lewiston and finally Boise, ID, where we spent the next 10 days.
Return journey was via Salt Lake City, Denver, Chicago and Baltimore for 4 days in Washington, DC. Then the tedious routing home: DC-6 from Andrews AFB to Harman, Prestwick and Rhein-Main, where we got back on an RAF Britannia and retraced our steps via Merville to London Heathrow.

A wonderful experience.

[John Purdey]

Gerontocrat. Glad you enjoyed the Hal; Far/Luqa camp. I was the Staish, and because I had (many years before) been Tg 1 at HQ Air, I knew the ropes and thus had the bright idea of using the spare accomodation at Hal Far for a camp at Easter and another in the Summer. I signaled the offer to HQAC, and they fixed the first charter flight witrhin a couple of days! Happy Days!

[Tashengurt]

402 Gravesend Sqn. Great times. AEF from Manston with a short trip in a Wessex. Summer camps at Lyneham doing circuits in a Herc. We went to Hullavington the next year. Not the ideal place for a summer camp and I managed to miss the tour of the parachute packing hangar by going flying. I spent the entirety of my career as a squipper avoiding it too.
I always got beaten in the a/c recce competitions by another cadet who went on to fly F3s, Tomcats and Typhoons so I guess his recce skills needed to be better than mine!
Every now and then I catch the whiff of a cigar and it takes me back to that hut with models strung from the ceiling and its little tuck shop in the corner.
:ok:

[Martin the Martian]

Five years (1983-1988) at No.1900 (Hayle) Detached Flight.

Plenty of drill, interspersed with AEF from St. Mawgan or Exeter, gliding at Predannack (Slingsby Cadets then Vikings -wow! just like an F-16), camps, shooting, the occasional Nimrod trip.

Eventually became a corporal, left as I moved away and joined the ROC, but eventually came back as a CI for a number of years.

No longer involved as running my own business doesn't leave me with much time sadly, but I was invited to be a judge at Plymouth and Cornwall Wing's annual Caiels Trophy activity weekend last year. It was superb to see so much enthusiasm from the cadets present, and the event allowed me to see much of what they get up these days. If anything I think cadets nowadays have a lot more opportunities than when I was involved. It is still a wonderful organisation, and I hear one of the local squadrons recently had a recruiting drive and doubled their numbers from 30 to 60.

Long may it continue.

[Gerontocrat]

John Purdey
Please see incoming PM.

[chevvron]

ScewballScramble: I was Admin Officer at a summer course at Rissy in 1991 and some of the staff slept in bunks in the old control tower which was the VGS HQ then. They had a caravan but this didn't have bunks.
The cadets on the course were trucked to and from South Cerney.
What I found inefficient was closing down every evening, trucking back to Cerney for evening meal, then returning to Rissy to fly until dark, a round trip of over 30 miles taking a good 2 hours out of every day, so I arranged with the catering officer at Brize (which was 637's parent station anyway) that I would collect pre-packed airline style meals from Brize every evening so the cadets could get a couple of hours extra flying per day.