Low hour modular fATPL - what jobs are out there?

[macs86]

Hi all,

I am currently a PPL holder deciding whether to do modular or integrated training for fATPL (the never ending debate). I'm not asking for the pros and cons of each, I know this has been very well covered elsewhere and is surely a matter of opinion. But can I ask, what jobs are out there in the UK (other than instructing) for low hour modular fresh fATPLs? Virtually every airline it seems wants TR + experience, PARC for EZY (as an example) always seem to want 500hrs or so on type. The odd biz jet job ad that comes up also seems to always want TR. So my question is, how do modular guys build up hours and experience in order to move on to the bigger stuff one day? I know it’s unrealistic to expect to go straight from flight school to the airlines for your first job (unless you are on a tagged scheme, or maybe did the CTC integrated cadet route), but how do people actually build the experience needed to ever be eligible to make it to the airlines? The more I read on pprune and elsewhere, the more I wonder about this…

Thanks in advance for any replies or experience anyone has.

[doratheexplorer]

macs,

guys are being employed via both modular and integrated. A large part of whether or not one gets employed is for most part due to how well you succeed through flight training. CTC Wings integrated will most likely get you best employment oppurtunities.

I am now a Qatar Airways cadet pilot and will commence training in September.
I will be parting with money just under twice as much as modular training. However, i have an offer of employment before commencing training and that is motivation in itself to really do well throughout training.

BA FPP is one of the best schemes going in terms they will act aa guarantor...but that is incredibly competitive because of that.

I know guys that have come straight out of modular and have gone straight into RYR. (bear in mind that by the time you pay for type rating and accomodation in modular you are pretty much at the figggure of an airline backed scheme) food for thought

I too have my PPL which is now essentiay irreevent in helping me go into an MPL but of course the experience does help

Best of luck

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just stay honest.

http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/comics/2013-11-19-cw0642.jpg

[macs86]

Hummm.... its all gone quiet. Slightly concerning!

Thanks Dora. RYR is one option for the modular guys. Any others anybody knows of?

[fwjc]

The reason you don't have many replies is that the people that know where the low houred pilot jobs are don't want to exponentially increase the competition by advertising their existence.
That said, google it. There is a website, can't remember the address, that lists some people who recruit low hours. You'd be surprised how many there are, and how little some of them care about the route by which you got your ticket - integrated or modular, the end licence is still the same.

[macs86]

@fwjc

Thanks for the reply. There is the odd site out there with some information, but mostly it seems the jobs are very few and far between, out of date, and you often need to be willing to pack up and head east which may not be an option for guys and gals with families and commitments at home. Maybe i should rephrase the questions to 'low hour modular fATPL jobs in the UK - what jobs are out there?'. It seems to me not many... but i would be very, very happy to be corrected on that.

[fwjc]

Unfortunately it's a dog eat dog world in the low houred commercial world. You won't find anyone daft enough to post leads on here. Even the companies that are hiring people with fewer hours, know not to advertise overtly. Sifting through 5000 cvs takes too much time and costs too much money.

Edited to add - a fair proportion of the non-airline operators that are more likely to take low houred pilots may prefer modular. If you are ruling these out and aiming for airlines only, then integrated may give you a slightly better chance, and you already know which operators will take low hour, financially advantaged pilots.

[mad_jock]

There are a lot more than you will find on the internet.

Basically pretty much all of them are by word of mouth.

You will have to move for the first job. If you have any hesitation when someone offers you a job in say Wick you might as well give up.

[macs86]

Thanks for the replies. Im not ruling out non-airline work at all, in fact i might well prefer it.

Wick i can probably manage - but china i can't, so im looking for uk opportunities. Good to know some are out there - even if no one will ever tell you about them... :oh:

Financially i could manage either integrated or modular. To be honest i would prefer to go modular - i prefer the course - but at the end of the day im looking for a job at the end of it and the more i read the more it seems that although its not impossible with modular, it does put you at a disadvantage. Shame really.

[maxed-out]

Mad jock,

The job you mention with a posting in Wick, if I have the correct operator, has a new minimum of 1000TT and 500 multi as I am sure you are aware. I have been trying to get in for 4 years and have a friend there who has recommended me. I would bite their hand off in a heartbeat.

It's not easy out there.

[mad_jock]

I was just using wick as an example of a basing which some turn their nose up at then moan they couldn't get a job.

And I agree it's not easy.

You haven't a hope in hell of getting a low hour job outside easa land. Those jobs go to locals.

[maxed-out]

I agree. One shouldn't turn your nose up at a job. When I trained modular in 2007, I was aware that these entry level prop jobs were where I would apply to. 3 years into part time GA and still not a sniff.

Anyway, we soldier on and carry on networking. It does seem likely though, that I will have to follow the dreaded "buy a rating" like some of my mates in business aviation and one other modular mate coming up for command at Easy after PTF.

Shame really.

[fwjc]

mad jock is right. I'm in my first job now, a few months after I completed modular training. The position was never advertised. I am aware of at least two positions that were advertised through word of mouth on social media. Although these needed slightly more than "low hours" they weren't exactly high hours either.
Off the top of my head I have eleven mates who went modular, six have decent flying jobs. I know three who did integrated and none of them have a job. This is a small sample size so there is no statistical significance here.

[Cows getting bigger]

Overheard at Gatwick yesterday - a couple of ATPL Theoretical knowledge candidates (ie people who clearly do not have an EASA CPL and/or IR).

"Yeah, I've just got a job flying a Falcon in Saudi"

"That's good. Any idea where I can get 25hrs MEP cheap? I've got a job offer but I need 50hrs 'cos of insurance. It's got to be proper MEP - I don't like the Diamonds, they're no good"

"I like the Diamonds, we fly them in Saudi. Good for 185kts at 18000ft"

:zzz:

[macs86]

So fwjc's in a job after a few months, and maxed-out isn't in one after 3 years?

@fwjc - can i ask what kind of job you are in? What were the hours requirements to get it? Don't worry i don't want the name - im not planning on showing up at their door CV in hand lol (although i cant speak for maxed-out!). Just wondering about what kind of work is out there? What about your 6 modular mates - what do they do? I'm guessing your mostly instructing but would be very interested to hear. Equally, would be interested to hear what schools your 3 integrated mates went to. Not reading too much into this poorly-powered cohort, just an interesting case report ;)

@maxed - out even buy-a-rating doesn't really help much as far as i can see. Eg: Easy are currently advertising but need 1500 TT and 500h on type as i remember. I have a friend who did buy a rating/PTF, still no job, 40k worse off.

@Cows getting bigger - East is east.

[portsharbourflyer]

Well my most recent assessment has seen me ending up in a country where the local shopping mall has armed guards, the traffic police are carrying pump action shotguns, you have to get taxis everywhere as it doesn't seem to be that safe to walk anywhere. That is the sort of thing you may have to contend with to get the first job (well second job in my case). The joys of the East.

Wasn't successful in getting the job, sometimes not always a bad thing.

[redsnail]

portsharbourflyer sounds like Luton ;)

[sobokow]

How would you find these jobs then? Another poster said word of mouth via social media. Just following EasyJet and the likes on Facebook? Surely that can't be...