Nigeria kidnapping-UK mil to be involved.

[Hangarshuffle]

Someone is briefing the UK paper The Guardian. UK military will offer assistance and possibly become involved. Special Forces and aircraft.

Nigeria kidnap: US and UK offer help in hunt for schoolgirls | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/07/nigeria-kidnap-schoolgirls-us-uk-help)

I never liked Procul Harem anyway, way too hippy for me.

[Whenurhappy]

Err, I think the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs stated that Her Majesty's Government would offer assistance. And quite rightly, too.

[Trim Stab]

I'm flying a vertical camera equipped aircraft in Nigeria at the moment and we can photograph down to 5cm GSD. I offered this to NAF and NSA (Nigeria Security Adviser) on 14 April when this story first emerged, but they were not the slightest interested. Nigerian government officials are only interested in doing anything if they see an opportunity to chop some money from a contract - they are not the slightest bit interested in the well-being of their populace.

The NAF has a KingAir 350 with a vertical camera, but this is not flying at the moment due to lack of spares. The reason they have no spares is not because of lack of budget, but simply because of corruption within the NAF - spares were invoiced, but somebody stole all the money...

The root of all the problems in Nigeria at the moment is massive endemic government corruption at all levels. I suspect that this incident will be first of many.

[FODPlod]

...The root of all the problems in Nigeria at the moment is massive endemic government corruption at all levels. I suspect that this incident will be first of many.

Fully concur. If you wish to support a campaign to end government corruption and insidious email and internet scams in Nigeria, PM me. The equivalent of 1 billion naira is being held for you pending receipt of your bank details and the payment of a relatively small administration fee.

[Sun Who]

FodPlod,

I laughed my tits off.:) I do hope your post is also appreciated by others.

Sun.

[Capetonian]

I do hope your post is also appreciated by others.I don't appreciate it ...... he's muscling into my territory!

[Danny42C]

One hundred and ten years ago Nigeria was one of the most prosperous and flourishing of Britain's African colonies. My Father was out there, seconded to the Southern Nigeria Regiment from the King's (Liverpool) Regt. as a SNCO Instructor. (I believe a Major Trenchard (any relation ?) was the C.O.)

Of course, the British Empire was a thoroughly Bad Thing (or so I am told by the Intelligentsia).......I wonder (having seen some of it).

In any case they are Independent Now (with all that that entails). It's all very sad, but we are not the world's policeman any more. We should keep out of it.

D.

[barnstormer1968]

Trim said:

"I'm flying a vertical camera equipped aircraft in Nigeria at the moment and we can photograph down to 5cm GSD. I offered this to NAF and NSA (Nigeria Security Adviser) on 14 April when this story first emerged, but they were not the slightest interested. Nigerian government officials are only interested in doing anything if they see an opportunity to chop some money from a contract - they are not the slightest bit interested in the well-being of their populace.

The NAF has a KingAir 350 with a vertical camera, but this is not flying at the moment due to lack of spares. The reason they have no spares is not because of lack of budget, but simply because of corruption within the NAF - spares were invoiced, but somebody stole all the money...

The root of all the problems in Nigeria at the moment is massive endemic government corruption at all levels. I suspect that this incident will be first of many."





The Nigerians are fools not to take up your offer, as it seems you also spotted two army lynx flying over Cumbria while you were flying over Nigeria......
That is some super duper camera :)

[Trim Stab]

The Nigerians are fools not to take up your offer, as it seems you also spotted two army lynx flying over Cumbria while you were flying over Nigeria......
That is some super duper camera


I made the offer in Abuja on 15 April and I happen to be home on leave in the UK since May 1. It was only one Lynx over Cumbria. Do keep up at the back, and try to learn how to use quote marks in your replies otherwise you give the impression of being a bit dim.

[bcgallacher]

This will be a total waste of time and possibly cost the lives of British personnel.Anyone who has spent any time in Nigeria knows that there is no political will to get involved with anything that does not enrich politicians or military officers. The last involvement of UK special forces was a disaster - the hostages were both killed. Incompetence, squalor and corruption are endemic - the north east is a ghastly place,I spent a little time in Maiduguri and was exceeding glad to leave. Why the British government wants to get involved is anybodies guess - we should leave well alone.

[Trim Stab]

Personally I want us to help for the sake of the children.

But I agree with the rest of your statement. We should not be giving any aid to this country while it is governed by such vile, feckless, venal politicians and military. The money we give to them in Foreign Aid should be given to our police to shut down and confiscate all the foreign bank accounts owned by Nigerian politicians, civil servants and military officers.

[Rosevidney1]

Why the British government wants to get involved is anybodies guess - we should leave well alone.


Indeed we should. I am suffering from donor fatigue but our glorious political leaders insist on making gestures...

[500N]

Maybe they think they can pull off another Sierra Leone ?

[Hangarshuffle]

Agree with just about all above. Yes I started it a little tongue in cheek, but it was pushed hard by ITN tonight by their reporter (Rageh Omar, apologies for bad spelling of name but I cant be bothered to look it up-I never liked the man). I find it amazing that we could be even partially involved because of the news reports have pushed the Govt. to make a response and make them seen to be do something-for the sake of good TV. Are they serious? Are they saying the UK involvement has to assist in finding, and possibly assaulting this relatively unknown "enemy" force.The UK Military is too small, too far away and frankly too insignificant to have an rapid effect here. Is this not the point when a SO should step in and halt this nonsense? I'm showing an interest in this because back in about 2009 I took part in an exercise where we and others formed up for some war playing , Joint NATO and bit of everything but focused on amphib. One of the scenarios was to recapture a large holiday complex that had been taken by a terrorist organisation. the region was within the Eastern Med etc. Well, the whole thing was a shambles (its true, as a worms eye viewer it was a shambles) and it brought home to me how much we had declined as a force and how little we would really achieve if this ever occurred for real. those times are behind the UK.I'm sure there's a few on here know the time and place I'm on about. And now it appears our leaders seem to be pushing for something even harder, even further away, with less and less material and actual people. Maybe it will come to nothing for our side, I truly hope so.

[reynoldsno1]

Well, that's the element of surprise gone ...

[Basil]

Stand by for some 'mafi bacon' to make his disgust known by 'direct action' in the UK.

[Ogre]

With the way the news reports have been going on, it is clear that the main protagonist has a very clear religous inclination. Therefore any action by an armed force not aligned with that religous inclination will automatically be taken by certain parties and the media as oppressing that inclination, leading to repercussions on other fronts.

Do you think I managed to say that without offending anyone? Probably not, but you will get the drift

[Basil]

Ogre, Would that I had your tactful way with words ;)

[barnstormer1968]

Trim
Its a shame you missed the big yellow smiling emoticon in my post, but don't worry I won't insult your intelligence for that. :)

Enjoy your leave.
I may clearly be a bit dim in your view for reading two of your posts, one saying you were in the UK, and one saying you were currently flying a type in Nigeria on the same day..............................But it may surprise you to know I actually realised that you weren't in both locations, and was making light of something, hence the smiling emoticon.

[parabellum]

In any case they are Independent Now (with all that that entails). It's all very sad, but we are not the world's policeman any more. We should keep out of it.


The only justification for UK forces going in is humanitarian and then at the behest of the UN. Unfortunately, in the past, the 'host' country have always wanted their own forces to be included and this has sometimes led to a major clusterfkuc with unnecessary casualties. I suspect UKs own SF would refuse a combined operation on the grounds of possible causalities to themselves. It would have to be a night operation with NVG anyway and I doubt the Nigerians have them, they would have been sold off long ago.

[500N]

Parabellum
I agree. UK SF do it by themselves or with the us but not the African nations.

Look at the success of Sierra Leone and the recovery of the soldiers.
A textbook example of a recovery operation.

[Toadstool]

I also agree.

This is precisely the operation in which UK SF would excel. For those who think we are 'getting involved' its not an invasion and we are not and will not commit UK ground troops.

There are probably many other instances where UK SF get involved, this is just more in the public eye.

We may not be the worlds policeman, but we can still be a force for good.

[ShotOne]

So do you want to send them or not?? You say you want us to "be a force for good" but at the same time agree with parabellum who doesn't want us involved unless a string of conditions are complied with which are very unlikely to be met. There is almost zero chance of a fullUN resolution in time to be any help for these girls; the Nigerians (or any other nation) are simply not going to allow foreign military free reign in their country without some measure of involvement or control.

To be fair, these contradictions are representative of the very difficult situation we face, particularly when a request for help from the host state is tardy or non-existent.

[Trim Stab]

This is precisely the operation in which UK SF would excel.

This problem is too large and diffuse for UKSF at this stage. Nobody even knows where the girls are being held now. The best guess is that they are probably dispersed amongst many Boko Haram camps and caves in the Sambisa forest area in the mountains bordering Cameroun. I've flown over the area and it is huge (about four times the size of Wales) and dotted with tiny villages, hunter camps, caves. Some areas are fairly open and accessible, but other areas are thick jungle.

The only way to search it is with aerial reconnaissance. The Nigerian Air Force does have modern photo-reconnaissance assets (ATR42 with EO/IRs, B350 with vertical camera, DA42s with EO/IR) which would be suitable but they were mainly acquired so that corrupt officers could chop back-handers from the contracts. The NAF is far too feckless and lazy to actually use them and maintain them, and they would never be able to analyse and interpret the images anyway.

The rainy season is now underway, so satellite imagery may not be possible and aerial-reconaissance would have to be flown under cloud base which is typically 2000-3000ft agl. The other issue would be where to base aircraft. There is a NAF airforce base at Maiduguri, but it is completely insecure and you would not want to rely on the Nigerian Army to protect the base in the event of a Boko Haram attack (it has already been attacked a few months ago - several aircraft destroyed and many killed). Kano and Makurdi NAF bases are a bit too far. N'Djamena in Chad would be the best logistical choice, or Garoua in Cameroun would be closest - but the Nigerians will be reluctant to allow cross-border flights.

However, the biggest obstacle to any outside intervention will be feckless and venal attitude of Nigerian officials. They will object to any plan that will see them losing an opportunity to chop some money.

[Toadstool]

Shot,

obviously I should have made myself more clear.

I agree that our SF should go in, given their particular skill sets, and help to find these children.

I don't agree that this would constitute us 'getting involved and being the worlds policeman.'

I also don't agree with our involvement being conditional. Our SF either go in to help unconditionally or they don't go in at all

So do you want to send them or not??

Again, yes.

As for a UN resolution, this isn't us declaring war, this is our SF going in to help another country with a particular problem. This has been done many may times before without any kind of UN resolution. Why would this necessitate a UN resolution???

[Boudreaux Bob]

Send them in....and let them do what they do best....put an instant end to nasty pieces of work....then back home for a bath and beer.:ok:

[Thelma Viaduct]

At least this time rescuing the young girls is reason enough for military action.

Normally they have to make up some obscure reason for it.

What were the lies/tales/fables told for Afghanistan and Iraq again???

I bet Mr Putin laughs his cock off every time little William Hague opens his mouth. :ok:

I hope the girls are rescued by those that do it best.

[500N]

" I bet Mr Putin laughs his cock off every time little William Hague opens his mouth. :ok:"


Did you see the video of John Kerry the other day on the same subject ?

[Robert Cooper]

Latest from the intelligence agencies over here is that the girls are no longer in Nigeria. It's been over three weeks with no action, so I guess they could be anywhere. Going to be a problem finding them now.

Bob C

[500N]

Wouldn't surprise me.

It's right on the border anyway and out there, anything goes.

[crackling jet]

The situation is a disgace and should be addressed and assisted by any right thinking nation, however why have we and the US decided that this is worth getting into, just being sceptical, is there oil or such like in the vacinity? and is it the £ signs shining in our leaders eyes with the companies that they are major share holders in could make for them if we get a foothold.

I know it sounds like something out a film such as 'the wild geese', but i really do wonder and as i say i really am sceptical these days in respect of our leadership.

The main reason i am perturbed by this situation is we made a promise to the Ukraine that if they gave up their nuclear weapons stock pile that ourselves and the US would back them up if they come under threat from anyone, bearing in mind this was a cast iron aggreement and what has happened, these same leaders didn't want to know and have just sat back and let it happen with the odd comments of outrage, all this has shown is our word around the world is worth nothing, perhaps that's it, if it was worth something they'd want their cut.

I must end this now before i get carried away. anyway being ex forces myself (RAF), if any of you lads and ladies do have to get involved then best of luck and best wishes get home safe.

[Hempy]

If Thatcher was still in power the SAS would already have had them out, leaving behind plenty of reminders about trying to play with the big dogs. And then she'd sneer at any possible attempt at political ramifications.

No leadership anymore..

[Heathrow Harry]

CJ - oil in Mali and Chad but its already spoken for - several western companies already operate there - not much in NE Nigeria IIRC

[ShotOne]

While we all want to see these girls safe, ought our forces be sent to help the tens of thousands under threat in other regions like South Sudan. If not, given the sentiments expressed here, why not?

[Toadstool]

Shot

you still haven' answered my question about why this necessitates a UN resolution. Probably because this situation doesn't require a UN resolution, which means you actually have no idea about actually goes on.

Never mind. When you actually have a clue about anything. please be sure to let us know.

Tens of thousands under threat, or hundreds actually kidnapped??!!

[chopper2004]

Shell Nigeria operate a fleet of Airbus Helicopters EC155B1 and Dornier 328 and Bristows Nigeria have a sizable operation.

Hempy has a point.....and its probably the same thing, the Israelis would do

[smujsmith]

I would think that, if our SF people can really offer a positive outcome in this scenario, then why not put them in play? Unfortunately I suspect that the current government are more interested in the "media" kudos than reality. Who announces that they are about to deploy SF troops? Totally counter productive, unless it's some sort of twisted political spin. Perhaps as a normal bloke, and ex service, my opportunity to see anything of even a small, let alone "the big" picture could blur my thinking, but like Danny42C I believe that it's yet another political whim we should not chase.

Smudge:ok:

[ShotOne]

Read my post again, Toadstool; I never asked for a UN resolution, it was parabellum who did so a couple of posts earlier. You agreed with him. All I did was point out such a resolution was unlikely.

"...Under threat or hundreds kidnapped", well, brutally murdered, since you ask!

Not sure why you've felt the need to lapse into abusive mode. This is the kind of situation which makes me glad I went into the Air Force and not politics. Yes I'm pleased we are doing what we can to rescue the girls. But I note you ignored my question about sending our military to other areas where terrible things are happening.

[parabellum]

Who announces that they are about to deploy SF troops?


No one, you will hear about it afterwards, if successful it will be Dave, if unsuccessful then a junior minister.

[SARF]

These kids were kidnapped weeks ago.. No one gave a ****.. Quiet news week and its front page news .. Special forces this, Facebook that, twitter here and mumsnet there.. there is eff all we can do militarily or politically .. In the last few weeks there will have been hundreds of young girls in this country that need help from scumbags.. Perhaps we should concentrate our efforts there rather than chase the headlines in Africa.

[Trim Stab]

Rather amusing to read that some posters are still claiming that SF is the magic answer to this. The opportunity for any targeted operation was lost over three weeks ago. These children are now dispersed over a very wide area split into small groups. What are SF going to do? Wander through a forest bigger than Wales and hope they bump into a few?

The only way to find them now is through aerial reconnaissance and humint, and negotiate their release. Unfortunately as already posted the NAF is corrupt and feckless and The Nigerian intelligence service (SSS) is no better. Boko Haram have penetrated it far more effectively than they have penetrated Boko Haram.

Probably it will be the French who sort this out. They have aerial reconnaissance attitudes in place in N'Djamena and unlike us, they have developed a reasonable humint network in NE Nigeria and Cameroon as a result of several of their nationals having been kidnapped up there (a family of seven, then a priest) and spending a lot of time and effort negotiating their release. By contrast, when UK had a national kidnapped up there in 2012, we just sent in a (noisy) Shadow and the Shakeys, botched the operation, and burned any humint network we had up there.

However, even if we do find these children, it will not fix the root cause of the problem which is the utterly feckless and corrupt governance in Nigeria. The international community should start on its own doorstep by making it harder for international banks to accept deposits from Nigeria. At the moment, it is only the USA which really vets deposits in its banks from Nigeria. If Nigerians officials were unable to take their stolen money out of the country they would at least be keeping it in the Nigerian economy. Also, there should be bigger fines for companies which pay backhanders to Nigerian officials in order to win contracts - again the USA is leading the way in this by heavily fining any US registered company which pays a bribe in Nigeria. The EU has laws in place but they are not so rigourously enforced. China and Israel are the worst offenders (which is the main reason you see so many Chinese and Israeli arms in Nigeria).

Nigeria is on the way to becoming a failed state and is not far from an all out uprising of poor workers against the staggeringly rich and corrupt officials.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Probably it will be the French who sort this out. They have aerial reconnaissance attitudes in place in N'Djamena

I can't disagree with much of your post but, for the life of me, can't quite grasp what an AR attitude is.

[Trim Stab]

Meant to be assets - pesky spell hanger strikes again. I meant spellchanger..

[smujsmith]

Hate to be the " Guy Gibson dog in the logs", but I've seen some media stories suggesting that "procol harum" are funded from the UK. That being the case, perhaps shutting down this funding might be more practical than military action. No doubt any decision on SF deployment will depend on potential for political credibility than military sense. I just hope that these children are released from the scum, with no casualties. Good luck to anyone who becomes involved in this, do your job, and come home safe.

Smudge

[500N]

Didn't someone mention France would solve it ?

This in my local newspaper

France offers to host African security summit on Boko Haram
Read more: France offers to host African security summit on Boko Haram (http://www.smh.com.au/world/france-offers-to-host-african-security-summit-on-boko-haram-20140512-zr9sf.html#ixzz31RQBFvUY)

[bcgallacher]

If western SF are to operate in Nigeria they must operate autonomously - if they have to work in conjunction with Nigerian forces it will be a complete waste of time and could cost the lives of foreign forces. Nigeria is a country of total corruption and incompetence whose government has the sole purpose of personal enrichment - they do not want to waste time and effort trying to rescue the girls when they could be making more money. I have worked for several years in the country - the only place in a long overseas career where I had armed bodyguards - and found it to be the most unpleasant place by far with a population that would cheat ,lie and steal without compunction.

[Hangarshuffle]

If I offended anybody at the start of this thread, by calling them PH and appearing to be flippant then I apologise, unreservedly.
The story is already slipping down the newspapers online editions, way down on the Telegraph, 3rd or 4th on the Guardian and then only on there because Mrs Obama is highlighting it (ie that's the interesting bit).
And that's the truth, outside of that its just another minging story from an utterly minging part of Gods earth. The politicians have jumped in, probably committed our servicemen to God knows what yet again in such a thoughtless and callous way it beggars belief.


In the Graud, there are long, long online replies about the situation-some even suggest that the terror group involved are being funded by Saudi Arabia.
Nigeria kidnapping: why Boko Haram is a top security priority for the US | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/09/boko-haram-us-security-policy-nigeria-kidnap?guni=Keyword:news-grid) main-1 Main trailblock:Editable trailblock - news:Position3:sublinks


If you can be even bothered to follow it.


What to believe?
But I say again we as a military nation are utterly incapable of affecting the situation on the ground here to a positive outcome, without a major risk to our own individual military people involved.
We are not world police and this could end in an utter disaster for our people if pursued.
Its not on. Sad, but Nigeria's problem

[smujsmith]

BCGallacher,

"Nigeria is a country of total corruption and incompetence whose government has the sole purpose of personal enrichment"

I read that and my mind turns to modern Britain. Perhaps the likes of Hague and Camoron recognise kindred spirits. I just hope that any military involvement from our country Is successful, and as far as possible, sparing in casualties. Unfortunately, if the pollies are involved, I won't hold my breath.

Smudge

[bcgallacher]

Smudge - If you think that British politicians are comparable to Nigerian you have little perception of what totally corrupt means. As an example the late unlamented Sani Abacha and his family were reckoned to have aquired something in the region of 6billion dollars during his regime. 60% of the oil revenues were estimated to disapear at one time.Everything in Nigeria runs on 'Dash' - you would have to be involved in some kind of business venture to understand the all pervading culture of graft and bribery.What happens in the UK cannot be remotely compared to Nigeria - be grateful that it is one of the least corrupt countries in the world. I have spent years in some of the worst - Nigeria,Bangladesh,sadly The Philippines and Uzbekistan so I do have a reasonable knowledge of the subject.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

bcgallacher. I'd say you make a good point. UK side we have an additional problem being the former colonial power and all the odium that stirs up. To me, this is another example of the perils of an Empire being "railroaded" by a benign "friend" (shan't say who but the strange verb may give a clue) dictating a "freedom" timetable.

Nigeria was not ready for independence but received it anway. Had the clock been run a bit slower, lessons may have been taught and learned.

[Trim Stab]

Smudge - as BCG said - you have to live and work in Nigeria for a while to fully understand how utterly corrupt and venal every level of Nigerian society is. Everybody is only interested in themselves and will steal anything they can, and are continually on the look out for opportunities to scam each other.

Whenever there is a car-crash in Nigeria, passers-by flock around not to help the victims but just to loot them.

There is a culture of impunity that means that people in power are completely immune from prosecution. They will run people down in their large vehicle convoys and not even stop. Ministers will brazenly steal billions from their ministry, and there will be no pressure whatsoever for them to resign - simply because everybody else in power is also stealing as much as they can.

The military is no better - as I alluded in an earlier post, most equipment is procured at great expense just so that senior officers can extract huge kickbacks from the arms dealers (usually Israeli and Chinese since western manufacturers cannot pay kickbacks nowadays). The equipment is then just left to rot because there is not enough money to be made out of maintaining it.

The reason these girls were kidnapped in the first place is because the Nigerian soldiers who were supposed to guard them accepted a bribe from Boko Haram to run away.

[212man]

you have to live and work in Nigeria for a while to fully understand how utterly corrupt and venal every level of Nigerian society is. Everybody is only interested in themselves and will steal anything they can, and are continually on the look out for opportunities to scam each other.


Having lived and worked there for over 8 years (does that count as "a while"?) I would say that statement is a simple/sweeping generalisation, and that there are large numbers of normal honest people there for whom this is untrue!

[bcgallacher]

Unfortunately the generalisation is correct - there are indeed some honest people,the driver of our crew bus found my wallet while cleaning the bus and returned it to me intact - there was $900 in it.I gave him $100 for his honesty. Have a look at the world corruption index - that will give you some idea of the situation in Nigeria. Where in the country were you based and what line of work were you in? I worked in Lagos,Kano,Sokoto,Kaduna and for a short time Maiduguri. I felt safer in the northern Muslim areas than in the Christian South but the way the system worked was the same.

[212man]

I was based in Eket, Port Harcourt, Warri and Lagos flying helicopters supporting oil and gas from 1996-2005. I was taken hostage in 1999, so I think my comments are quite impartial. What used to disgust me more were American evangelists flying in in their Gulfstreams and taken the last 20 naira from the audience, or sitting in Business class with Wole Soyinko.....

[BEagle]

To be fair, many Westerners have no idea about the very low wages paid to many African employees.

I was stuck with a dead jet in Dakar many years ago - the other 3 had flown back to the UK. One of the hotel's African cleaners asked me about a crate of empties which one of my colleagues had left in his hotel room. At first I thought he was making a complaint about the state of the room, but it soon became clear that he was saying that he'd be quite happy to remove them. But he pleaded for a note to say that he'd been allowed to take them, in order not to be accused of theft. I don't know how much a crate of empties gained him at the market, but he was very grateful.

When I was at school in the late 1960s, we had a few boys whose fathers were in colonial service in Africa. A friend told me how much their Nyasaland 'houseboy' was paid - or rather, how little. When I asked why they didn't pay him more, he told me that, if they did, it would very probably be a death sentence for the poor chap - someone would soon knock him on the head and be after his better paid job.

Greed and corruption at every level, it would seem.

[Trim Stab]

Once I was camping on my own in some remote place in Niger, about 10km from nearest village. Just as I was getting into my dosbag, I was annoyed to see a mobylette put-putting over the desert towards me, alerted by my camp-fire. "Bonsoir Toubob", he greeted me, "Qu'est-que je jeux faire pour vous?". Feeling slightly annoyed that I'd been spotted, I gave him a few francs just to get rid of him, and told him to bring me a couple of beers.

About two hours later, I was woken by a headlight and sound of mobylette. "Voila Toubob" and he hands me two warm beers, and the change. I felt a bit guilty after that!

Back to Nigeria, I see from the Grauniad that the septics have deployed manned surveillance aircraft to look for the girls. Interesting to note that they haven't deployed their Niamey-based UAVs - no doubt the Nigerians would have objected to UAVs as they wouldn't be able to insist on one of their "intelligence experts" riding in the back (and getting paid handsomely for their "expertise").

[Trim Stab]

Because Nigeria is on the way to failed state and there is lots of oil there too -

BBC News - Nigeria soldiers 'fire at army commander in Maiduguri' (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27417778)

[Hangarshuffle]

Seriously, a type of lager?
On the C4 it was still a story, but now more about how ****e the Nigerian Govt. is.
Any UK SF deployed will be returning home - the story will fade out. It was a Tory spinner to pacify the press. Silly season soon, after the EU elections.
As for oil...nothing will change in the region? I expect most Western oil companies know their way about the private security industry/western govt. route well enough not for us to notice.
Plenty of oil and gas in many neighboring W Africa countries anyway - bitter cynic in me says I hope so = my share prices in Cameroon might rise a bit.

[Lonewolf_50]

'Tis an ill wind that blows nobody any good. :cool:

[parabellum]

Hausa are the tribes in the North of Nigeria and primarily Muslim, the 'Federals' as the bunch in the West, around Lagos are called, used the Hausa to stir up trouble with the Biafrans, (mainly Christians), the Federals, including the Nigerian Army, then moved in and so started the Biafran war because the Biafrans were sitting on a whole lot of oil.


At least that is how it was explained to me when I was out there in 1969.

[Brian Abraham]

Wole Soyinko, an interesting take he has 212man.

Nobel laureate Wole Soyinka says England is 'cesspit' of extremism - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/7130597/Nobel-laureate-Wole-Soyinka-says-England-is-cesspit-of-extremism.html)

[Party Animal]

Soyinko makes a very valid point in his comments and I wouldn't argue with him.

[TEEEJ]

The Sentinel R1 plane, which has a crew of five, took off from RAF Waddington, Lincolnshire, at 09:25 BST on Sunday, the Ministry of Defence said.

BBC News - Nigeria abducted schoolgirls: RAF plane sets off (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27460163)

[Melchett01]

Took off to do what exactly?

After over a month this is little more than a flag waving exercise akin to sending an aircraft out to a natural disaster to get the roundel on tv and a bit of positive press for UK plc.

Of course, it's also another string to Sentinel's bow that might save it from the chop in 2018 if it can be proven to be good in multiple environments and not just open battlefields. In this instance however, I would be very interested to see what it turns up.

[500N]

Melchett01

You mean like sending an old submarine and a ship to help search for MH370 a few weeks after everyone else gets there ? ;)

[NutLoose]

Having worked on a Nigerian CAA aircraft it was an eye opener... Indeed several Nigerian aircraft I worked on amazed me, one in for an annual (BAe 125) had the loaner engines recovered, it had them fitted while his went for overhaul, that was the last the owners saw of them for several years and they ended up with a pair of scrappers and the Nigerian owner with a pair of nearly new engines. Took his aircraft sitting engineless and a lot of money to get it back in the air.

[Trim Stab]

BBC reports that it will operate from Accra. Seems an odd choice, given that Ghana has no involvement with the situation and there are French assets already operating from N'Djamena and US assets operating from Niamey.

Mind you the Movenpick hotel in Accra is by far the best hotel anywhere in West Africa, not that that could possibly have anything to do with the RAF's decision:-)

[Sandy Parts]

ahem, why 'dig-in' when you can 'check-in' (and get better rest)?

[teeteringhead]

One hundred and ten years ago Nigeria was one of the most prosperous and flourishing of Britain's African colonies. My Father was out there, seconded to the Southern Nigeria Regiment from the King's (Liverpool) Regt. as a SNCO Instructor. (I believe a Major Trenchard (any relation ?) was the C.O.)
No mere relation Danny42C, 'twas the man hisself! Wiki is your friend..... Following the end of the Boer War, Trenchard decided to apply for service in the West African Frontier Force and was granted the position of Deputy Commandant of the Southern Nigeria Regiment with the promise that he was entitled to lead all regimental expeditions. On arrival in Nigeria in December 1903, Trenchard initially had some difficulty in getting his Commanding Officer to allow him to lead the upcoming expedition and only replaced his superior by going over his head.
Once established, Trenchard spent the next six years on various expeditions to the interior patrolling, surveying and mapping an area of 10,000 square miles which later came to be known as Biafra. In the occasional clashes with the Ibo tribesmen, Trenchard gained decisive victories. The many tribesmen who surrendered were given jobs as road builders and thereby began to develop the country as part of the British empire. From summer 1904 to the late summer 1905, Trenchard was acting Commandant of the Southern Nigeria Regiment. He was appointed to the Distinguished Service Order in 1906 and was Commandant with the temporary rank of lieutenant colonel from 1908 onwards.

[Jet In Vitro]

A true MMA would be useful in this scenario:

A rapidly deployable rugged and reliable platform which requires little supporting infrastructure in terms of host nation support and airfield services . Sensor mix:

GMTI/ SAR
COMINT
EO/IR/FMV
HS

Good Comms.

The same platform could also provide SAR support for the missing yatch and crew.

[ORAC]

RAF spy plane breaks down on way to find Nigerian schoolgirls (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/10841874/RAF-spy-plane-breaks-down-on-way-to-find-Nigerian-schoolgirls.html)

An RAF spy plane sent to join the international hunt for schoolgirls kidnapped by Boko Haram militants has broken down on the way. The Sentinel R1 was forced to divert to Senegal with a “technical issue” and will be grounded until repairs have been completed.

The unexpected delay is a repeat of last year’s embarrassment for the Ministry of Defence when a C-17 transporter sent to help French troops in Mali was also temporarily grounded by technical trouble.

David Cameron offered the Sentinel to the Nigerian government to use its advanced ground scanning radar to hunt for more than 200 school girls abducted from a school hostel last month.

The modified executive business jet, left RAF Waddington on Sunday bound for its new base in Accra in Ghana, where it will be stationed while flying across northern Nigeria. However the crew reported technical problems midway through the flight. An RAF source said: “We had a choice of turning around and coming home, or landing en route.”

It was last night unclear when the jet would be able to resume its flight and travel the remaining 1,300 miles to Accra...............

[Melchett01]

Jet,

Concur - for the most part. But unless they're walking in a long straight line and wearing huge chunks of tribal jewellery and Pattern 58 webbing belts to act as radar reflectors, I'm still struggling to see the utility of SAR GMTI in a jungle/forested environment.

[Jet In Vitro]

200 people will require logistic support.

I will say no more.

[Lonewolf_50]

200 people will require logistic support. While very true, that lot and the prisoners they are dragging about with them will take up a lot less logistics per capita than a party that you or I would organize. :cool:

[500N]

Far better off staying in one place with that many people.

[Melchett01]

Or breaking them up into smaller more manageable cells that you can conceal more easily and which requires a far smaller logs chain and which would also give you an element of redundancy in the event a govt force tried to move against you.

[Trim Stab]

200 people will require logistic support.

I will say no more.

Not very much, if any. The people in the area are largely self-sufficient, living hand to mouth from the forest. There is very little cultivation in the area, which would require organised logistics. They will certainly eat any of the children that die of natural causes (snake bite etc) and may even eat a few healthy ones if they can't get enough bush-meat. The children are likely to be dispersed into groups by now anyway.

[Jet In Vitro]

Small groups will require some coordination.

[Heathrow Harry]

20 groups of ten hostages spread out over say 10 sq km of bush with runners in between (they have mobile phones but won't use them)

from the air you'll never find them nor, more importantly, be able to distinguish them from other family groups farming/hunting in the same area

[Trim Stab]

(they have mobile phones but won't use them)

There is probably little or no network in the area anyway. Outside towns coverage is patchy even in the relatively normal parts of Nigeria.

[gr4techie]

200 people will require logistic support.

Who says the bad guys are giving them any support to 1st world western standards? They might not even care for the captives?

For their own food, the bad guys might pillage what ever village they happen to be driving through at the time.

[Lonewolf_50]

Trim Stab, what reason do you have to believe that this bunch of Boko's are cannibals? :confused:
They will certainly eat any of the children that die of natural causes (snake bite etc) and may even eat a few healthy ones if they can't get enough bush-meat.

[Trim Stab]

Trim Stab, what reason do you have to believe that this bunch of Boko's are cannibals?

Cannibalism is not uncommon in Nigeria - try googling it and you will find plenty of ghoulish recent references. These are just the stories that have sufficient corroboration to make it through the veracity filters of western press outlets. I read the Nigerian newspapers (when I am out there) and there are plenty of other locally reported stories that never make it into the western press. These are just the stories from reasonably literate areas of Nigeria too.

The villages in the north and east are totally cut-off from central government, the police (even if they dare go there) are utterly corrupt and unreliable. Nigerians eat anything they can kill. I think it is a safe-bet that any young child who dies of malaria or snake-bite will end up in the soup pot.

[Lonewolf_50]

Thank you, Trim, I wonder if there's a preferred herb or spice that goes with such meat.

Ya know, like sage for beef, mint for lamb, clove for pork, what goes with human? :eek:

[500N]

Cajun spices ;)

[ursa_major]

Why have we sent a Sentinel? Surely a 1970s-era Radio1 DJ would (allegedly) be much more adept at finding schoolgirls if the tabloids are to be believed...

[500N]

ursa

:D:D:D

Very good.

[Lonewolf_50]

And the plot thickens.
A pair of powerful bombs tore through a crowded market and bus terminal, the second one timed to target rescue workers.
There appear to be a few prize :mad:'s running amok in Nigeria.
The initial reports from Jos are that Boko are behind this. \

Over a hundred dead. :(

[500N]

Lone

Yes, read about that. 20 minutes between them.

They have sunk to a new low.

[Hangarshuffle]

The UK mil thing was a tabloid spin. Nothing seems to have come of this story and its already old news. We see a familiar modern pattern in the rapacious military/media twist. There will be no UK SF assault. We will not be deploying search planes, or a rapid deployment force, or surgical strikes or anything else in a buzz word way.
There is a pattern this summer, developing. We have Syria with alleged chemical bombs and the Govt. wants to start a war, but loses consensus and it fades away. We have this Nigeria thing, and now its faded away, We have the missing yacht, and that now fades away.


Maybe the UK military are now viewed as...what? Media lozenges? Suck it for a bit and it eases the itch, but really offers no long term solution.

[Just This Once...]

So if we are not 'deploying a search plane' what do we do about the aircraft and personnel that we have actually deployed??

:rolleyes:

[Trim Stab]

There appear to be a few prize 's running amok in Nigeria.
The initial reports from Jos are that Boko are behind this. \

Over a hundred dead.

Boko Haram's strategy seems odd. They actually had a lot of public support in the North East when they first formed up as they were seen as crusaders against corruption. If they had carried on just targeting police, army and government officials they would have gathered more support. Instead, they turned against the unarmed poor to attract more attention, and have now lost any public support they once had.

Which ever way Boko Haram turn now, Nigeria is on the boil and could be tipped into meltdown in the near future. There is a wide-spread feeling of social injustice in the grass-roots of the population and bubbling resentment at the way they are treated every day by the police, army and government officials. Just a small spark could ignite a bonfire - just like the suicide of a market trader in Tunisia set off social change there.

Boko Haram are not the only possible trigger. There is plenty of intertribal tension in some parts of Nigeria which could also spark off a wider conflict - e.g. the Fulanis (nomadic cow-herders who roam all around West Africa) have attacked several villages killing a lot of people, and even recently attacked the heavily armed convoy carrying the governor of Benue state, killing about 30 but not the governor himself. There are also armed militant groups operating in the south in Rivers state and Delta states primarily opposed to the way the oil revenue from the region is misused, though they have other grievances too.

[Thomas coupling]

Leave them to it. Let them wipe each other out at will. It will keep the country in the dark ages for generations to come and be one less worry for the rest of the world.
In fact the reason why the western world wants to become involved is to continue to destabilse such continents. They either sell them arms from without or go in and rock the boat from within.

The corridors of power - eh?

[Lonewolf_50]

Nigeria says more girls, women rescued from Boko Haram in Sambisa Forest - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nigeria-says-more-girls-women-rescued-from-boko-haram-sambisa-forest/)

A bit of good news among the tragedy of late.
A day after the Nigerian army celebrated the rescue of 200 girls and 93 women (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nigeria-evacuates-traumatized-girls-rescued-boko-haram-sambisa-forest/) in the forest stronghold of Boko Haram, the army's spokesman said more women and children believed to have been abducted by the Islamic extremists were rescued as firefights broke out there
A tip of the cap to the colleagues in the Nigerian army. Got a few back, though of course this issue with the Boko :mad:'s is hardly over.

Well done, gentlemen.

[Trim Stab]

A tip of the cap to the colleagues in the Nigerian army.

Except that it is not the Nigerian Army who are doing the heavy hitting...

[Lonewolf_50]

Except that it is not the Nigerian Army who are doing the heavy hitting... Then a tip of the cap to whomever is doing the heavy lifting. :ok:

[Lonewolf_50]

This is unfortunate.
The stigma of Boko Haram has tainted girls who escaped their captors.

Segun described the experience of some of "the Chibok girls," as they have come to be known, who escaped in the first couple of days of their abductions. Some got away as they were being transported in open trucks by grabbing the branches of low hanging trees.

Instead of being admired for their bravery, some of those "who had escaped were being called Boko Haram wives," said Segun. After speaking to one of the girls, Segun "got the sense from her that it deeply, deeply shamed her and her companions ... they were being discriminated against because of close contact with Boko Haram and stigmatized," Segun said.

She said some of those girls have left Chibok and are living with relatives or supportive family friends elsewhere. "These girls weren't even touched (raped)," said Segun, "but Boko Haram is so despised that anyone dentified with the group shares some of that label, the slur."