Sikorsky rolls out CH-53K

[chopper2004]

Aptly named King Stallion

Sikorsky Unveils CH-53K Helicopter; U.S. Marine Corps Reveals Aircraft Name (http://www.sikorsky.com/About+Sikorsky/News/Press+Details?pressvcmid=5f8372c365dc5410VgnVCM1000004f62529 fRCRD)


Cheers

[tartare]

That is one big motherf*cker of a helicopter.

[West Coast]

I hope it doesn't have the teething problems the E model did. The echo,was savaged in the media near the old Marine base at Tustin Ca where I grew up. The local paper there had a hard on for it.

[Lonewolf_50]

"Rolling out" may or may not mean putting that monster into the air.

The ground test vehicle went live on 17 April, but I seem to recall that it won't leave the earth. That beauty in the pictures here (http://www.sikorsky.com/vgn-ext-templating-SIK/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ac5f6eb78fa78110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&vcmid=0f6bef0fd0bc5410VgnVCM1000004f62529fRCRD) may fly soon.

Huzzah! :ok:

[Rhino power]

Super size pic of EDM 2, that rotor head is rather impressive!

-RP

http://mms.businesswire.com/media/20140225006132/en/404847/5/140224_Aero_CH53K_EDM2_Delivered_to_Test.jpg?download=1

-RP

[tartare]

Why is the tailplane canted to port?
Something to do with a weird torque vector?

[Willard Whyte]

That is one big motherf*cker of a helicopter.

Aye. A propper chopper.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/USMC-101210-M-1842C-182.jpg/367px-USMC-101210-M-1842C-182.jpg

Does a -53 always go on top?..

Why is the tailplane canted to port?

'Twas ever thus on the Super Stallion. One would guess to give a bit of extra lift at the rear, I'm sure the boffins in white lab coats know their stuff. From http://www.airvectors.net/avskbig_2.html

Although the prototypes were built with a wide-span, low-mounted symmetrical tailfin, flight control problems led to refitting the second machine with of a distinctive new tail assembly, with the tailfin canted to the left by 20 degrees and an inverted-gull asymmetric tailplane mounted on the right. This change was used in production S-80s.

[Trim Stab]

That is one big motherf*cker of a helicopter.

A wee tiddler compared to the Mi-26. I read once max underslung load of Mi-26 is 56 tonnes so it could possibly lift the CH-53

[melmothtw]

Pah, I'll see your Stallions and Halos and raise you a Homer!


http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u613/Melmothtw/0197393_zps1d73a1b2.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/Melmothtw/media/0197393_zps1d73a1b2.jpg.html)

[Willard Whyte]

I was wondering who nicked all my scaffolding...

[NutLoose]

Melmothtw, you can take off half of the main rotors on a Ch53 and still fly it, i'd like to see you do it with that hunk of junk ;)

[melmothtw]

Aye Nutloose, but try flying your CH-53 without a tail rotor...

[Tourist]

Nutloose

Which half of 7 would you remove?

[Lonewolf_50]

Melmothtw, you can take off half of the main rotors on a Ch53 and still fly it, i'd like to see you do it with that hunk of junk ;)
But wouldn't the vibes be a real bugger? :eek:
(Tourist, hee hee, well played :ok:)

The Black Hawk / S-70 family also has a canted tail rotor, which (according to our old NATOPS manual for the Seahawk) provides up to 2.5 percent of the total vertical lift. :8

CH-53K: oh, what a beautiful beast! :D I will go out on a limb and suggest that Igor his own self would be mightily pleased with the King Stallion.

[dagenham]

Lets hope they dont try to roll this one ...the last time didn't end well.

Amazing machine the " homer" shame only two built, but when the soviet air force says niet you know you have problems!

Any one know if the eu / uk heavy lift competition still going on, i seem to remember a supersize euro tandem twin design being flashed about..... This and the king would be an interesting sight

[West Coast]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7pVjQ5Y5g

[NutLoose]

I never said which variant Tourist ;)

http://www.popasmoke.com/visions/albums/vietnam/aircraft/normal_Vietnam-Aircraft_Specific-CH_53-4225.jpg

Comment by: Nikolaos I. Hantzis ([email protected]) on Apr 6, 2006 04:44 AM
Yep, this is true. I was lucky to work at Sikorsky in Stratford C.T. from 1987 to 1989. Jimmy Kay was the Sikorsky test pilot who was flying at the time this photo was taken ( I have a signed black and white copy at home) He said that they had a slight vibration @80knts and around 110 knts but everything else was smooth flying.

http://www.popasmoke.com/visions/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=6425#top_display_media

[VX275]

Is that as close as Sikorsky can get to a BERP blade without paying the UK royalties?

[Lonewolf_50]

Nutloose: neat, had no idea they'd done that. :ok:

VX: I'd need to look at some more images of the BERP. Various manufacturers have been messing about with blade tips for decades. I am not sure I see how the blades shown on the K are a BERP copy. :confused: There's a lot going on there, it looks like from the photographs available.

[alfred_the_great]

Don't try and stand near one as it either lands or takes off......

[Always a Sapper]

From chopper2004's link

mission radius of 110 nautical miles

What are they going to use it for? Short hops across the fleet when at anchor or summit?

[hoodie]

VX: I'd need to look at some more images of the BERP. Various manufacturers have been messing about with blade tips for decades.

BERP has always been far more than just the tip.

[Willard Whyte]

mission radius of 110 nautical miles

What are they going to use it for? Short hops across the fleet when at anchor or summit?

With 27,000 lbs of kit slung underneath. One would hope the mission radius is a little more when not carrying so much stuff...

[tartare]

Holy sh1t - I hadn't seen that barrel roll video.
I have heard it said that in terms of hands on cyclic and collective and feet on pedals, the big machines can feel surprisingly nimble to fly.
Spoke to a chap in NZ flying a Mil 8 on a logging op and he said `Mate, it's just like pole-ing a Squirrel around.'
Any Stallion drivers reading who could comment?
And yes Alf - had also heard that when one lifts off, it can blow you off your feet if you are watching nearby and not ready.

[Lonewolf_50]

The few times I got to fly a CH-53E, under the watchful eye of a USMC Aircraft Commander, I found it smooth and very responsive to the controls. Great bird. :ok:

[Haraka]

My late father, who was on EH101 design before moving on from Westlands, watched a CH -53 come in ,then depart, from the field in Yeovil many years ago .
His comment to me :

" Just what do we think we are playing at ? "

[Boudreaux Bob]

Alls sorts of barbs have been slung at Sikorsky various threads at pprune.

Yet when we look around the Western World and many of the other parts as well....we see the SK Products in inventories doing Yeoman work every single day in every kind of climate and environment.

I see those Critics as suffering from something akin to Penis Envy.

[NutLoose]

alfred_the_great

Don't try and stand near one as it either lands or takes off......


Many moons ago a French man was flying his little 152 to near Paris, but the weather got bad so he diverted to Le Touquet, an hour or so later, lost and running out of fuel he stuffed it down into a plowed field in Kent! He made a perfect forced landing with no damage, but it needed shifting from the field so it could be flown out, the USAF kindly sent a CH-53 to lift it and promptly blew it inverted, finally managing to do what the Frenchman couldn't... It came to us and we eventually rebuilt it, including replacing the whole of the rear fuselage.

[Lonewolf_50]

When the CH-53E was being introduced into the Fleet, back in the 80's, they reckoned that with the hurricane force winds that the downwash produced, the LSE directing the bird over the deck in a hover needed to have his person attached to a tie down via chain and hook. :eek:

Also, the grounding wand was a pretty healthy piece of equipment! :ok:

[NutLoose]

Of course if you get a gear stuck then it's underneath and pull it out

http://www.uflymike.com/media/personal/Jammedgear.jpg


Would be a good caption comp entry too

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200092-amazing-ch-53-picture-do-not-try-this-at-home/

[NutLoose]

And of course the movie, same thing, different location


Hung Nose Gear - YouTube

[Lonewolf_50]

:ok: Nice job, loved the video. :D

[RAFEngO74to09]

Wow - great video. Obviously before the days of Health & Safety bolleux !

[The Sultan]

Sikorsky announced at least a six month delay in flight of the 53K due to a transmission design problems. How long was the first delay of the Canadian 92's?

The Sultan

[Boudreaux Bob]

How far behind schedule was the Osprey, Ding Dong?:ugh:

[The Sultan]

Osprey first flight was basically on schedule.

The Sultan

[Boudreaux Bob]

Basically? No groundings along the way either i guess?

[Lonewolf_50]

I suspect that this set back was discussed in detail and agreed with the Program Manager. Not a surprise, but a disappointment. :uhoh: One would have thought that with the years of putting these things together and the known pitfalls in design, and as noted above, the recent experience with S-92, this design effort over the past few years would not have been caught out.

Then again, the entirety of helicopter design involves tradeoffs and compromises, and nowadays a bit of risk. Sometimes, that risk shows up in a "no, it won't work out" result.

Press on, team, and grind it out. (Wait, maybe not the best choice of words for a transmission issue. :eek: )

[The Sultan]

BB,

How can there be a grounding before first flight? Kind of a Sarah Palin moment for you!

Also no one with a passing hint of the 53 would try to compare its early (or later) safety record as a yard stick for how it is to be done.

The 53K is a derivative, but the revolutionary in every way V-22 was contracted in 1983 and first flew in 1989. The K was contracted in 2006 and will still be sitting on the ground in 2015 or beyond. Get someone to do the math for you.

The Sultan

[cornish-stormrider]

All I know is I was on the top deck servicing a mighty puma :ok: at Benson when a Pave Low came taxiing by, festooned with guns and stuff, I had to duck and hang onto the engine to not be blown off the deck......

As Arnee once said " Get to Tha Choppa....."

[Lonewolf_50]

The 53K is a derivative, but the revolutionary in every way V-22 was contracted in 1983 and first flew in 1989. The K was contracted in 2006 and will still be sitting on the ground in 2015 or beyond. Get someone to do the math for you.
Says the shill for the company who cannot and will not build a large helicopter. Your input is noted.

How's that vaporware bird doing, amigo?
I refer to the 525, which is doing "flight test (http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/FlightTestingtheBell525Relentless)" in a simulator.

Let us know if it ever flies.

[Boudreaux Bob]

Sultan,

Your history and memory are both quite fuzzy.

The Osprey is neither "new" nor "revolutionary" but is itself a DERIVATIVE with its roots firmly based in the 1950's. We have been through this many times before with you. Would you mind keeping up with the discussion and not try to describe the situation to suit yourself over and over....something that is itself nothing new or revolutionary.

Bell flew the XV-3 from 1953-1966. Your Osprey is a DERIVATIVE of that if you care to check it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL2SeFy2Czs

[Tourist]

Boudreaux

You are being silly.

The 53 (which I think is fantastic and we should have bought incidentally) has many variants. One of these is the K. It is last in a long line of development of the 53 series. It is thus a derivative.

To suggest that the V22 is a derivative of the XV-3 is imbecilic.

A descendent, yes, in much the same way that a 53 is the descendent of that first sikorsky helicopter he flew wearing the hat.

Have all the arguments you want about which is better, bigger, faster, more cost effective etc, but don't be fatuous.

[NutLoose]

So if it's the King Stallion, it will be ripe for the nickname Foo....

[Boudreaux Bob]

Tourist,

However you wish to define "Derivative" is your business.

That the V-22 is directly based upon research done on the XV-3, XV-15, and projects done to overcome problems with the design of Tilt Rotor Aircraft is not debatable as it most assuredly is.

If we can say the UH-1 Huey is derived from the Bell 47, we can most assuredly say the same about the Osprey and its roots in the XV-3.

That History started in 1950 with the first flight taking place in 1955.



http://history.nasa.gov/monograph17.pdf

[chopper2004]

Israeli air force looks for lift from CH-53K - 8/10/2015 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israeli-air-force-looks-for-lift-from-ch-53k-415528/)

Cheers

[melmothtw]

Tourist is right Bob; derivative is not the same as descended from.

If we can say the UH-1 Huey is derived from the Bell 47...

But we can't, as it isn't. It is descended from the Bell 47, but not derived from it.

[Genstabler]

The Bell 47. Now there's an aircraft that changed the world!

[KenV]

Is that as close as Sikorsky can get to a BERP blade without paying the UK royalties? Keep in mind that patents are good for 20 years (15 years for design patents). The BERP rotor was developed and patented in the 80s, way more than 20 years ago. So the patent will have expired by now.

[The Sultan]

From Flightglobal:

The US Navy’s acquisition chief expects the Sikorsky CH-53K King Stallion to take its first flight this fall, placing the long-awaited milestone somewhere between now and November.

The super-heavy-lift helicopter for the Marine Corps has seen its share of technical troubles and delays, but the navy is still targeting an initial operational capability date of 2019.

The aircraft, which began development in 2006, was meant to be approved for “Milestone C” low-rate initial production and deployment in 2012, but the target was revised to 2016 due to budgeting and development issues with further postponements likely unless the first CH-53K can get off the ground this year.

Hope the government has this under a real fixed price contract, if not it will be $300M by the time it delivers in the mid-20's.

Lonewolf when I posted the 53K wouild still be on the ground through 2015 you wrote:

Quote:


Says the shill for the company who cannot and will not build a large helicopter. Your input is noted.

How's that vaporware bird doing, amigo?
I refer to the 525, which is doing "flight test" in a simulator.

Let us know if it ever flies.

By by the way the 525 is flying, if you missed it.

The Sultan

[LowObservable]

Four years late per the 2006 schedule. Sold as a derivative in order to justify sole-source award to Sikorsky. And it is a derivative of the CH-53E, apart from entirely new engines, rotors, transmission, fuselage and avionics.

EMD was supposed to be $2.9 billion. What is it now, I wonder?

Marine procurement strikes again.

[The Sultan]

Low

They sold it as a minor upgrade to another gullible customer (like the Cyclone). It's first flight is 6-7 years late. IOC will probably be 10 years late. Poor L-M.

The Sultan

[LowObservable]

The customer was not in the least gullible. It was a tacit agreement to bypass competition and understate the costs. The Marines don't pay for this stuff anyway - it comes out of the Navy air budget.

[Lonewolf_50]

By by the way the 525 is flying, if you missed it. No, I didn't miss it: I celebrated its first flight announcement by having a nice cup of coffee with a friend. Good news that it's gotten past that first milestone.

@Low Observable: given how the procurement world works on this side of the pond, and given how things like JSF (and for that matter, Osprey) eat APN-1 money like no tomorrow (with ripple effects on all other acquisition programs) it was a smarter strategy by the PMA to not go for a clean sheet of paper design. Had that been done, we'd not see it where it is now.

Your criticisms appear to hold a parochial interest. What's your skin in this game?

[Rhino power]

Marine Corps CH-53K King Stallion Heavy-Lift Helicopter Finishes First Flight (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/support/2015/10/27/marine-corps-ch-53k-king-stallion-heavy-lift-helicopter-finishes-first-flight/74691932/)

-RP

[Davef68]

Rotors look more like the Carson blades fitted to Sea Kings in Afghanistan than BERP (albeit much bigger!)

[barit1]

Not a direct derivative, but clearly common thought process: The LTV XC-142.

Checking back in history, the V in LTV was Vought, which was once allied with Sikorsky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C7sDjNtijc

[chopper2004]

Second CH-53K helicopter joins flight test program| Vertical Magazine (http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/Second-CH-53K-helicopter-joins-flight-test-program?utm_source=vertical-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=vertical-daily-news-03-15-16-opt)

Sikorsky, a Lockheed Martin Company, has announced the second CH-53K helicopter has joined the flight test program and achieved first flight. In addition, the first aircraft into the test program has achieved flight envelope expansion to 120 knots for the United States Marine Corps' (USMC) CH-53K King Stallion heavy lift helicopter program.

"Adding a second aircraft into flight status signifies another milestone for the CH-53K program," said Mike Torok, Sikorsky's vice president of CH-53K programs. "With both aircraft in flight test, our flight envelope expansion efforts will accelerate as we continue to make good progress toward our initial operational test assessment and full aircraft system qualification."


The first and second CH-53K heavy lift helicopter engineering development models (EDM) achieved their first flights on Oct. 27, 2015, and Jan. 22, 2016, respectively. To date, these helicopters have achieved over 35 flight hours combined including multiple flights with an active duty USMC pilot at the controls.


As the flight test program proceeds, these two flying CH-53K helicopters will be joined by two additional aircraft to complete flight qualification of the USMC's next generation heavy lift capability over an approximately three-year flight test program.


These first two aircraft are the most heavily instrumented of the EDM and will focus on structural flight loads and envelope expansion. When the other two EDM aircraft join the flight line in 2016 they will focus on performance, propulsion and avionics flight qualification.

[The Sultan]

From Flightglobal:

Operating from Sikorsky’s flight-test centre in West Palm Beach, Florida, the first engineering development model (EDM) recently achieved 120kt, just 21kt shy of its advertised speed of 141kt.

What happened to the cruise speed of 170 Knots? For $25 Billion+ the US should be getting something faster that an ASTAR or 407. So the V-22 is twice as fast.

The Sultan

[Lonewolf_50]

What happened to the cruise speed of 170 Knots? Good question. Based on my few flights in an E, it handled 170 smoothly. (Granted, we were without cargo) I am not sure why you compare speed of Osprey to the 53, as Osprey isn't a heavy lift bird. The 53K's big selling point is payload, not speed. One of Ospreys great virtues is speed (and we pay a pretty penny for it, per the never ending harangues in the Osprey threads ...)

While I am not sure if 141 is a milestone or is that the final spec/requirement, at the Sikorsky site they list the cruise speed as 141 knots. One wonders: Is that a design trade off that pays the bills for the substantial payload increase over the E?


We'll see.

[Vzlet]

Seeing that "141kt" figure also sent me to the Sikorsky site, which then led to sidetracked browsing of their quite detailed Rotary Wing Legacy area (http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/D%20The%20Rotary%20Wing%20Legacy.php) where I saw this: "In 1956 a Marine HR2S-1 helicopter set 3 World records: a speed record without payload of 162.7 mph (141.4 kts); an altitude record of..."

[The Sultan]

Lone,

The V-22 is cheap compared what the 53K will cost. As to the low speed I have never seen Sikorsky put out conservative numbers. Is the slow speed related to the some compromise they had to do with the transmission to make the redesign acceptable or something with the rotor?

The Sultan

[riff_raff]

The 53K will be a very good and reliable heavy lift rotorcraft eventually. There was a big jump in performance between the 53E and 53K models. The V-22 had quite a few development issues, yet it has turned out to be a very nice rotorcraft.

[Lyneham Lad]

In Flight Global today:-
CH-53K's entry into low-rate production delayed eight months (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ch-53ks-entry-into-low-rate-production-delayed-eigh-423779/)

The Sikorsky CH-53K’s entry into low-rate production has been delayed again, this time by eight months to February 2017, because of gearbox failures last year and the late delivery of parts from suppliers, the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports in its annual assessment of Pentagon weapon projects.

The King Stallion development effort achieved first flight last October – "nearly three years later than originally planned" and five years after completing its critical design review.

In January, the second test model began flying at Sikorsky's facility in West Palm Beach, Florida and the GAO report notes that it contains the improved gearbox that was first trialled on a ground test vehicle.

“The unexpected redesigns of the aircraft's various gearboxes, as well as the late delivery of some components, have delayed delivery of the remaining two engineering design model test aircraft,” the GAO states in its 31 March report. “This has created delays at the production facility where parts are received from vendors, which is expected to impact the flight test schedule.”

The supersized King Stallion heavy-lift helicopter will replace the US Marine Corps' Sikorsky CH-53E, which was introduced in the 1980s and has anticipated service life of 41 years.

The cost of developing the aircraft has grown by 44% from $4.7 billion to $6.8 billion since 2005 and the procurement estimate for 200 aircraft stands at $19 billion.

The date for completion of operational testing shifted nine months since the GAO's 2015 report, from September 2018 to June 2019.

Despite gearbox troubles and the reported production issues, the Marines still expect to have the first war-ready squadron in place by July 2019..

Sikorsky officials said at a recent press briefing that the CH-53K flight test programme expects to log about 100h in 2016.

The Lockheed Martin-owned helicopter manufacturer expects to complete the second and third flight test aircraft this year, to support performance, propulsion and avionics flight qualification.

US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) reported on 24 March that the King Stallion recently demonstrated its advertised speed of 140kts with 15° angle-of-bank turns.

“This marked the last test flight in direct mode,” NAVAIR says. “The primary flight control system work up included 120kts, climbs and descents and hovering pedal turns.”

[The Sultan]

US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) reported on 24 March that the King Stallion recently demonstrated its advertised speed of 140kts with 15° angle-of-bank turns.

Wow those are impressive performance numbers for a 1950's rotorcraft. Can not wait for SASLESS to explain why these are great while at V-22's 300Kts is rubbish.

The Sultan

[Lonewolf_50]

Wow those are impressive performance numbers for a 1950's rotorcraft. How familiar are you with the timelines of actual flight test programs?


Program set back ... gee, what modern program isn't running into this? It appears that pushing the edge of the performance and payload envelopes keeps being difficult.
Good thing the V-22 never had any problems during development ... (oh, wait, V-22 isn't actually on topic in this discussion).
But look at what the Marines get for sticking with it, the V-22, no matter the criticisms and no matter the set backs.
A good bird.
Here's a thought: they'll get the same with the 53K. A good bird that hauls loads of stuff. (IIRC, they aren't going for speed as the major metric with 53K, that's what Avenger and Defiant are chasing after)

[The Sultan]

Lone

I was talking speed and bank angle. I am sure the bank angle will increase, but the reported max speed by Sikosky is 142 knots!

I apologize to 1950 helicopter designers the max speed for the S-58 was 150 kts, so the 53K's reported max of 142 is poor by the standards of the 50's.

The Sultan

[Lonewolf_50]

, but the reported max speed by Sikosky is 142 knots! Yeah, that's a puzzler, given the speed the E was capable of.

[West Coast]

FFS Sultan, let it run through the test program.

[The Sultan]

WC

If you scan the threads it is NAVAIR and Sikorksy press releases which keep stating the surprising low max speed of 142 Knots. One would expect a press release, especially from Sikorksy, would say that the envelope expansion is paused at 140 Knots for tests before expanding to the originally published speed of 170 K. None of them have. So right now 142 Kts is the ships PR max speed. Numerous have commented that this is strange. Ass a tax payer one would expect the an 53K with no external load to at least keep up with the UH-1Y.

The Sultan

[riff_raff]

I'm sure the 53K will eventually operate at speeds well above that of the 53E. After all, the 53K has around 9000hp more available than the 53E.

[chopper2004]

It has arrived today, in Germany ahead of next month's ILA,

cheers

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/800/40183683605_47c5c76c9e_b.jpg

[chopper2004]

Here she is, my photos first prodcution a/c making its first international debut ...mid week at ILA,




cheers




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/824/27855789098_1ae56e8012_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/976/27855788118_bbea0ec368_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/826/27855788658_044b7b73f3_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/979/40825656815_1978672fb6_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/950/41724660451_02c1ae1fc3_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/869/41684186502_0e178e3e69_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/864/41684189402_cef0bab3a5_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/909/41724660101_691b3d34d6_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/966/41724659971_67ecfa2a43_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/911/41724659701_b367b75765_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/957/41684187362_c461082684_k.jpg




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/827/39917213640_c776aa17a0_k.jpg

[sandiego89]

Thanks chopper. Those sponsons are indeed huge.

Any comment on the flight display? Aggressive or routine? I would imagine they will want to show some underslung loads off.

[KenV]

Lone
I was talking speed and bank angle. I am sure the bank angle will increase, but the reported max speed by Sikosky is 142 knots!
The SultanWith that limited a bank angle and airspeed, perhaps this are figures for flight with an external slung load??

[TEEEJ]

Thanks chopper. Those sponsons are indeed huge.

Any comment on the flight display? Aggressive or routine? I would imagine they will want to show some underslung loads off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXLvuIt0zpw

[KenV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXLvuIt0zpw

Looks like it flew well over 15 degrees of bank during the flight demonstration. Hard to say for sure about the speed, but the "high speed fly-by" looked faster than 142 knots.

[Vzlet]

...with the gear down the entire flight.

[Lyneham Lad]

Rotary-winged version of F-35? On Aviation Week.

CH-53K facing new cost & schedule pressures: DOT&E (http://aviationweek.com/defense/ch-53k-facing-new-cost-schedule-pressure-dote?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20190201_AW-05_76&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_3&utm_rid=CPEN1000003474208&utm_campaign=18344&utm_medium=email&elq2=ca306943395847fb8c1a0f9f130c4194)

[2805662]

Rotary-winged version of F-35? On Aviation Week.

CH-53K facing new cost & schedule pressures: DOT&E (http://aviationweek.com/defense/ch-53k-facing-new-cost-schedule-pressure-dote?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20190201_AW-05_76&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_3&utm_rid=CPEN1000003474208&utm_campaign=18344&utm_medium=email&elq2=ca306943395847fb8c1a0f9f130c4194)

Source document here -> http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2018/pdf/navy/2018ch53k.pdf

[SASless]

I see more 53's flying with landing gear down...than up....even in formations where some aircraft in the formation have gear up...and others gear down.

Being an Army Chinook Pilot....there is an opening for some good fun about Marines and their figuring out they landed gear up......but I shall not lower myself to that level.

The Army thought ahead on that.....and saw to it we could only accomplish that by tearing the fixed legs off the old girls.

[ORAC]

Alert 5 » CH-53K IOC delayed due to multiple design deficiencies - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/02/02/ch-53k-ioc-delayed-due-to-multiple-design-deficiencies/)

CH-53K IOC delayed due to multiple design deficiencies

[FlyHiGuy]

With 27,000 lbs of kit slung underneath. One would hope the mission radius is a little more when not carrying so much stuff...

That "short" mission radius is while carrying a 27,000-lb LAV. And I believe that this is at ISA+15 or 20C and even delivering to a certain altitude of a few thousand feet at least. The mission radius with 55 pax (assuming 200 lbs/pax) would therefore be about 180 nm. That's what it was designed to do. The normal (VFR) range (roughly 2 x ROA) of the CH-53E was about 450 nm and the MH-53E about 625 nm as I recall.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/558x354/capture_28e73507f21531e0dd48cb635189866594e0efed.jpg
The Navy could have given it more fuel like the MH-53E (~22,500 lbs if I remember correctly) but its just not needed often. When they need to they can always just call in a KC-130 for AAR refuleling. I do recall someone in my squadron "inadvertently" lifting a 39k lb load once (steel ship cradle I believe) in bay of Siracusa. 53A-D were superb, 53E's performed awesomely but had serious safety and reliability issues...hopefully lessons learned and applied by today's "nextgen" engineers in Stratford have made the K the ultimate PRODUCTION heavy-lift category helicopter in the world...Nothing like the sound and feel of the 53 starting up or flying by !

[FlyHiGuy]

From Flightglobal:



What happened to the cruise speed of 170 Knots? For $25 Billion+ the US should be getting something faster that an ASTAR or 407. So the V-22 is twice as fast.

The Sultan
There is a difference between "cruise speed" and "Max cruise speed" (often called "Vh"). The 53E's recommended cruise speed was actually 130-140 max so that's probably what's being referred to in this "141 kt" figure. The Echo flew great straight & level at 170 kts so I'm sure that the K can at least equal that figure since it was already published...there is just no point - harder on the components, fuel burn peaks disproportionately - all to get sailors or marines or cargo to their destination just a little faster (assuming peacetime ops where its not critical). Same thing applies for "your" V-22 I am sure with cruise & max cruise speeds. Same principle applied for the Concorde probably also !

[FlyHiGuy]

Lets hope they dont try to roll this one ...the last time didn't end well.

Amazing machine the " homer" shame only two built, but when the soviet air force says niet you know you have problems!

Any one know if the eu / uk heavy lift competition still going on, i seem to remember a supersize euro tandem twin design being flashed about..... This and the king would be an interesting sight

Not sure what "last time didn't end well" is based on; Frank Tefft - "THE" legend of 53's did the maneuver and it went just great ! All he had to do is compensate with a little "dishout" as he described it to compensate for the loss of lift while inverted to keep altitude. Bravo - hope he is still enjoying his retirement now in Madison Connecticut I believe !

[BEagle]

Amazing machine the " homer" shame only two built, but when the soviet air force says niet you know you have problems!

I remember seeing that thing at the 1969 Paris Air Show. It lumbered along making a most fearful racket and looked like it was barely controllable....

[SASless]

ORAC,..... Perhaps it is where and who is doing this Testing that has more to do with the problems than the problems themselves.

I bet had the testing. been done at Sikorsky the progress and resolutions of the issues would be far quicker.

Look into how the Testing process came about and you will understand my comment.

[Asturias56]

"but when the soviet air force says niet you know you have problems"

there's a view that the Russians are willing to send out their crews in any old rubbish - but I seem to remember t an other country who built 3 types of jet bomber with seats for the pilots and a deathtrap door for their crews........

[The Sultan]

From Janes:

The US Department of Defense (DoD) is looking to address ongoing problems with the Sikorsky CH-53K King Stallion's main gearbox (MGB) by sourcing an alternate supplier.

The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) issued a solicitation on 22 April for alternative sources for the MGB to mitigate current production risk and secure volume increases for future production.

The CH-53K is fitted with an advanced drive system incorporating a multiple-path split-torque gearbox with load-sharing capability, which enables the helicopter to use the extra power of the three General Electric T408-GE-400 turboshaft engines.

This gearbox was one of three critical technologies on the helicopter that had not reached the desired levels of maturity by the time system development was launched in late 2005. Problems still had not been fully resolved in 2014 when a redesign of the MGB delayed the aircraft's maiden flight, which was finally achieved in October 2015. The US Office of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT&E) 2018 report released earlier this year noted the MGB's low reliability and reduced service-life projections.

According to NAVAIR's request for information (RFI), the alternate supplier would participate in the CH-53K programme as a sub-contractor to Sikorsky, which is "the only contractor with the requisite knowledge, experience, and technical data that can meet the government's requirements on a timely basis".

As outlined in the report, the MGB is one of eight design deficiencies discovered during early testing. The others comprise airspeed indication anomalies, hot gas impingement on aircraft structures, tail boom and tail rotor structural problems, overheating of main rotor dampers, fuel system anomalies, high temperatures in the number two engine bay, and hot gas ingestion by the number two engine, which could reduce available power.



Wow! Does not get more humiliating than to get your own design taken away from you. If as suspected the transmission is an issue on SB-1 (epic loads) this is another nail in its coffin.

[melmothtw]

From Janes:



Wow! Does not get more humiliating than to get your own design taken away from you. If as suspected the transmission is an issue on SB-1 (epic loads) this is another nail in its coffin.

It's not having the design "taken away", but sourcing an additional company to supply certain key components to increase resilience in the production programme. But not great that they need to do this.

[The Sultan]

The US Department of Defense (DoD) is looking to address ongoing problems with the Sikorsky CH-53K King Stallion's main gearbox (MGB) by sourcing an alternate supplier.

If it was just a numbers issue they would have used the word additional not alternate. This appears to be more of the Navy has lost confidence in the ability of Sikorsky to fix and produce their own transmission.

[ORAC]

It’s an alternative supplier rather than additional because the original supplier went bankrupt.

One of the the problems with such long development programmes - even worse in others, such as the F-35, where components such as processors become obsolete and unavailable and the systems need redesigning in the middle if the EOD process.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/lockheed-s-29-billion-helicopter-running-short-of-a-needed-part

[Mil-26Man]

It’s an alternative supplier rather than additional because the original supplier went bankrupt.

One of the the problems with such long development programmes - even worse in others, such as the F-35, where components such as processors become obsolete and unavailable and the systems need redesigning in the middle if the EOD process.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/lockheed-s-29-billion-helicopter-running-short-of-a-needed-part

You'd think that if that was the case Sikorsky would mention it in their statement. Indeed, their comment from the Jane's story appears t say that all is well with their supply chain:

"Sikorsky’s existing supply chain can support the currently contracted quantities of aircraft. Due to the complex nature of the gearbox manufacturing, and to strengthen the supply chains for future production quantities and rate, second sources for some key components of the main gearbox are being developed.

Sikorsky has invested in improved tooling, modelling, and manufacturing at several suppliers to ensure the integrity of the programme schedule for currently contracted aircraft.

We are confident we will meet the marine’s goal for operational deployment in 2023–24.”

[West Coast]

If it was just a numbers issue they would have used the word additional not alternate. This appears to be more of the Navy has lost confidence in the ability of Sikorsky to fix and produce their own transmission.

Sultan, are you still employed by a rival to Sikorsky?

[Lonewolf_50]

Westy, I think the first five word were enough. :E

[The Sultan]

This gearbox was one of three critical technologies on the helicopter that had not reached the desired levels of maturity by the time system development was launched in late 2005. Problems still had not been fully resolved in 2014 when a redesign of the MGB delayed the aircraft's maiden flight, which was finally achieved in October 2015. The US Office of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT&E) 2018 report released earlier this year noted the MGB's low reliability and reduced service-life projections.

Low reliability and reduced service life projections are not supply chain issues. The above indicates a problem with the basic design which has not been solved in 14 years.

[SASless]

You reckon Sultan can understand the Vibes he is getting due to his Sikorsky bashing?

A bit of analysis might show him a need to make. some modifications and provide a smoother ride for himself here at Pprune.

[The Sultan]

Not bashing. To refresh:

The Defense Department (http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2018/pdf/navy/2018ch53k.pdf) laid out a slew of mechanical issues found during initial testing that include: “airspeed indication anomalies, low reliability of main rotor gearbox, hot gas impingement on aircraft structures, tail boom and tail rotor structural problems, overheating of main rotor dampers, fuel system anomalies, high temperatures in the #2 engine bay, and hot gas ingestion by the #2 engine, which could reduce available power.”

Add to this the unit cost is 3x the original and the original 2015 IOC has moved to beyond 2021 you get a picture of a lack of the program/design competence required to meet current commitments and capture future programs.

[Lonewolf_50]

Add to this the unit cost is 3x the original and the original 2015 IOC has moved to beyond 2021 you get a picture of a lack of the program/design competence required to meet current commitments and capture future programs. Not to put too fine of a point on it, Sultan, and as much as I love the Osprey, I recall that in the early 00's Bell / Boeing had a less than modest problem with "will it ever IOC" when the Navy had to shut down it's V-22 training pipeline for two+ years because there was No aircraft to feed those new pilots into. How soon YOU forget. Or did that hit too close to home for you, eh?

[ORAC]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-25/troubled-lockheed-copter-needs-new-review-inhofe-tells-pentagon

Troubled Lockheed Helicopter Needs New Review, Inhofe Tells Pentagon

The Pentagon needs to undertake another review of Lockheed Martin Corp. (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/LMT:UYS)’s $31 billion CH-53K heavy lift helicopter program amid continuing technical problems and delays, according to the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Republican Senator James Inhofe said the importance of the CH-53K King Stallion to the Marine Corps means that a “comprehensive, independent update” on the long-delayed program is overdue. Inhofe’s role leading the committee that authorizes defense spending means his request will almost certainly be heeded.

“We need to get it right, and this report should give us a current assessment and reestablish a baseline for the program to ensure taxpayer dollars are spent wisely,” Inhofe said in a statement to Bloomberg News. The senator cited concern that the chopper “is more than a year behind schedule and has over 100 outstanding deficiencies that still require resolution.”

Inhofe’s request comes as the Navy plans to award a production contract for as many as 14 new King Stallions next month, though so far only two of a planned 200 helicopters are under contract. The Navy program office and Lockheed’s Sikorsky Aircraft unit are still working to address 126 technical deficiencies, according to the Pentagon’s latest report on the system. The Oklahoma senator stopped short of suggesting the contract not be signed...........