Can it really be 45 years ago this weekend ?

[CoffmanStarter]

Yes ... 45 years ago this coming Sunday (4th May) will mark the success of the Royal Air Force and a Harrier GR1 in winning the fastest London-New York (E-W) Trans-Atlantic crossing in 6 Hrs 11 Mins (5 Hrs 57 Mins Pad-to-Pad) ... in the Daily Mail Trans-Atlantic Air Race.

The Harrier GR1 used during the record (E-W) flight was XV741 piloted by Squadron Leader Tom Lecky-Thompson, with Squadron Leader Graham Williams piloting XV744 on the return (W-E) flight, which took 5 Hrs 31 Mins on the 9th May.

I understand the (E-W) flight involved some 4 air-to-air refuellings. No information on the (W-E) trail.

The RAF team operated under the mission name of "Blue Nylon" which included aircraft and crews of No.1 Squadron (Harriers), No.55 and No.57 Squadrons (Victors), No.72 Squadron (Wessex), No.543 Squadron (Victor SR2).

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/BmoeiImIcAAHijw_zps275dafcc.jpg

We should also remember that the shortest time between New York-London (W-E), during the DM Air Race, was set by Lieutenant Commander Brian Davies (pilot) and Lieutenant Commander Peter Goddard (observer) of No.892 Naval Air Squadron in a Phantom FG1 on the 11th May 1969 (5 Hrs 11 Mins).

Hopefully there will be a few PPRuNers who were perhaps involved in the above events and would like to share a little more background ... Didn't the FAA try and ground Graham Williams due to bad Wx (their definition) on the W-E flight ... to no avail :}

Hopefully our John Farley might add a bit more colour ... as I believe he was involved in the subsequent demo of the Harrier in the US after the DM Air Race.

I understand XV741 (as a GR3) was kept (may still be) at HMS Sultan Gosport in 2012.

Here is XV744 (as a GR3) in a bit of a sorry old state being transferred to Tangmere Aviation Museum.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0mQbeTM4sdw

I wonder if in 2019, assuming the F-35 is in service with us by then, that the RAF will have a go at celebrating the Alcock and Brown 1919 Centenary ... although with the F-35B being a "single" engined aircraft it's unlikely to be given clearance to fly over London.

PS. I was 12 years old at the time and still remember the TV coverage ... wonderful stuff back then :D

[MPN11]

I remember that!

Was it faster than Concorde? Or the SR-71, which I controlled on one of its runs?

Still a good result for a little battlefield tactical jet, though :ok:

[Heathrow Harry]

I doubt it would have beaten Concorde or an SR-71 if they were around for a race withe same motorbike or helicopter support

say 30 minutes at each end by bike, 15 minutes each end for a helicopter and 2 hours travel time airport to airport = 4.5 - 5 hours

[thing]

I remember it like it was yesterday. We also had the first flight of Concord and a certain Mr Armstrong went for a walk in the same year. Heady days to be an aviation mad thirteen year old kid, every day was exciting.

[Vendee]

I still find it mind blowing that there was only 66 years between Orville Wright's first powered flight and Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon. The pace of development seems to have slowed since then.

[CoffmanStarter]

MPN11 ...

Just to answer your question here are the later times for the SR-71 and Concord Trans-Atlantic crossing records :ok:

SR-71 1st September 1974 New York Radar Gate to London Radar Gate (W-E) 1 Hr 54 Mins 56.4 Sec.

BA Concord 7th February 1996 New York JFK to London Heathrow (W-E) 2 Hrs 52 Mins 59 Sec (with a 175 mph tailwind).

[MPN11]

Ahh, it was the 1974 run I was controlling.

The Eastern Radar (ex-894) 'Ship's Bell' was on one of the runs :ok:

[GeeRam]

At some point he flew very low and fast (presumably after taking off from St.Panc) over West London, on a line similar to that now taken by the Trooping flypast along the route of the A40 out past RAF Northolt. As a young lad, I was out playing with the lad who lived next door, and I still vividly remember the sight and noise of it as it flew over.

[brakedwell]

I flew the Royal Navy and RAF ground crew and equipment from Wattisham to Floyd Bennett Naval Air Station, Brooklyn in a 99 Sqn Britannia on 25th April 1969. I seem to remember we had Graham Williams on board for the 10.45 flight via Gander. We returned non stop from New York to Lyneham in exactly nine hours, not bad for a turbo-prop.

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks Brakedwell for your contribution ... :ok:

[thing]

I still find it mind blowing that there was only 66 years between Orville Wright's first powered flight and Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon.

Things that I find mind blowing:

I took an eighteen year old LAC flying the other week. We were chatting away and I told him that it was forty years this year since I joined up and it seemed like ten minutes ago. I later realised that it was the equivalent of me at eighteen flying with someone who had joined up in 1934...

The aircraft we were in first flew when I was twelve...

When the Canberra retired in 2006 it had an operational service record of 55 years. Equivalent to the Sopwith Camel being operational until 1972...

Some guys who flew the Lightning are now in their 90's...

[SilsoeSid]

I still find it mind blowing that there was only 66 years between Orville Wright's first powered flight and Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon.

Then you'll be even more mind blown to find out it was actually 65 Years, 7 Months & 4 Days :8



What I find mind blowing is the photo Voyager 1 (launched in 1977) took of Earth 13 years later in 1990;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Pale_Blue_Dot.png
"Seen from 6 billion kilometers (3.7 billion miles), Earth appears as a "pale blue dot" (the blueish-white speck approximately halfway down the brown band to the right)."

[Hempy]

I still find it mind blowing that there was only 66 years between Orville Wright's first powered flight and Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon. The pace of development seems to have slowed since then.

Take WW1, WW2 and the Cold War/Space Race out of our history and we'd probably still be flying around in biplanes..

[thing]

What I find mind blowing is the photo Voyager 1 (launched in 1977) took of Earth 13 years later in 1990;

Equally astounding is the fight Carl Sagan had to get them to take the photo.

[tdracer]

I still find it mind blowing that there was only 66 years between Orville Wright's first powered flight and Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon. The pace of development seems to have slowed since then.
The part I find really truly amazing is that in mid 1961, "state of the art" space travel (at least for the "free world") was a Mercury/Redstone that could loft one human ~100 miles off the earth in a 15 minute flight.
Just over seven years later, Apollo 8 circled the moon with three humans on-board. Of course, seven months later Neil and Buzz were walking on the moon. And it didn't take a shooting war to get it done.
Compare that to today, when the same country that accomplished that incredible feat in 7+ years will likely go more than 7 years without even the capability to send people to it's own space station :eek:.

[Lancman]

The Harriers were also supported by the Belfast XR363 of 53 Suadron that accompanied them on a sales tour of the Floyd Bennett NAS, Andrews AFB and Norfolk NAS. I believe that the display that sold the Harrier to the Americans was the one at Andrews AFB, Washington. The Belfast was parked at the back of a pan behind a large group of distinguished guests that included Senator Barry Goldwater, who became a powerful supporter of the Harrier purchase, and a single Harrier which took-off vertically to gasps of amazement and then came back over the crowd at high speed. But what really caught the crowd's attention was the second Harrier that had been hidden from view behind a nearby clump of bushes and which popped up as the first one passed. The implications were immediately obvious to the military men.


The Harriers post-display curtsey to the crowd brought roars of applause.


The crowd was also impressed by the size of the freight hold and the minstrels' gallery of the Belfast which returned to Wittering via Gander; but nobody bought it.

[Tiger_mate]

Both Harrier airframes remain in existence.

XV741 spent many years with the Naval Flight Deck school but was sold to the civil sector within the last two years. The RAF disposal team had no regard for its historical significance. The scrap metal value is all that these people care about. I believe the airframe went to Bentwaters and will be preserved.

XV744 was the airframe decaying outside at MoD Shrivenham for a long time. It is now on external display at Tangmere Aviation Museum having been loaned (rather then sold) is my understanding. It was in very poor shape and the RAF could do a lot worse that donate the airframe to Tangmere. Unfortunately Tangmere has limited space under cover, hence long term security is not a given.

The RAF Museum at Cosford does not have a GR3. If someone had some foresight; XV741 would have gone there. Now that that opportunity has gone, perhaps the GR3 owned by RAF Cosford could at least represent the type at Cosford. Again short sighted military opinion would say that Cosford has a Harrier. They do, a GR9. But that is like saying that a first generation Mini is the same as the latest Cooper, when clearly all that is in common is a name.

[Lancman]

OT I'm afraid; see your 9 hours Brakedwell and offer 12 hours Jacksonville NAS to Heathrow in Britannia XN404 20/21st of September 1963. Off airways and with a light load, just Lord Louis Mountbatten and staff. http://www.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon7.gif.

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks Tiger Mate and Lancman ...

Poor old XR363 (G-OHCA) "Goliath" ended her days on the scrapheap at Southend ... :(

RAF Belfast C1 XR363 "Goliath" (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1032983/)

[teeteringhead]

Although it was a couple of years before I first served on 72, it was still much talked about.

IIRC, clearance was obtained (from whom I know not?) to fly at 140 kts rather than the normal VNE of 120, subject to a reduced MAUM (MAUW in them days) and adjusted NR.

Now: would the NR be increased to delay the onset of RBS, or decreased to delay the onset of compressibility effects on the advancing tip. :confused:

[SilsoeSid]

And it didn't take a shooting war to get it done.

:confused: