Eagle Jet A320 300 hour LT 79,000€

[lingdee]

Any takers? so blo*dy expensive!

[Alive]

€79,000

If you got hired afterwards on A320 average salary is approx €8,000 PCM

If you wanted to pay the LT off over a period of say 3 years
Then 79,000 \ 36 = 2194 - from original 8,000 & your left with around 5806 PCM

I could live off this easily, my
Problem is raising the capital in the first place.

Also there is no guarantee you may get hired afterwards. But I think you would be more likley to get hired than to not get hired with time on type.

Also have you noticed how the cost of LT has gone up over the years
2011 - $29,000 for 500 hrs
2012 - $40,000 for 500 hrs
2013 - €60,000 for 500 hrs (notice how everyone changed to euro around this point)
2014 - €79,000 for 300 hrs!

The T&C for LT are getting worse every year the golden age of paying 30k with job contract at the end are over, now even less hours for more money & no job contracts after to build more time

[Jean-Francois]

In Turkey, there is an offer on A320 for 49.500€ for the LT (500hrs)
But you need to do the TR and the BT with them which is 21.000€.
So total cost is around 70.000€

Still need a place to live and some food to eat...

The chance to get assessments seems quite high and the chance to get a job are quite interesting as well! Hard to say... It is a BIG choice but if you think that it would put you on the RHS you have to try!

Good luck!

[inthenightgarden]

A salary of 79000 isn't too bad. Do they pay for the A320 rating if you are not endorsed?

[Alive]

In the night Garden - the 79k is not salary! That is a lump sum you the pilot pays to eaglejet for the LT! There are no salaries or benefits when in LT

The cost is so high for the following reasons

1.) there is not only a surplus of newly qualified pilots, but now there us a surplus of pilots with the funds to pay the 80+K LT fees (supply & demand)

2.) there are only a few airlines that do LT and slots are limited

In terms of real money spent to allow you to do LT the only cost the airline incurs is the cost of a safety pilot, in most cases safety pilots receive a fixed fee for being safety pilot normally around say between 40 - 60 USD per flight

40 x 300 = 9000 USD
Original investment 79,000 EUR
You do the math, these schemes are almost 100% margin for profit

[Alive]

I see the future of LT extending to pilots with time on type

We will very soon have a surplus of pilots which fall in to the 300-500 hours in type category.

I see eagle jet introducing a new pay to fly for this market, a LT scheme for the 300-500 hour on type pilots

But you can only apply with time on type, Lion are would be a perfect airline dor this as they require 250 on type to join now.

Paying for command with 3000 TT is already available

In next 10 years I reckon the newly qualified pilot would need to go through initial LT the hours on type LT the pay to command until a well paid job would be within reach, sad but a bit if truth in there

[Jwscud]

Where do people get the money for this??

I sweated blood to pay for my modular training but did it all on a hand to mouth basis. I couldn't even save a lump sum half as big as LT when employed to put down as a deposit on my flat!

[JulietSierra6]

Alive - Im sorry but what 320 jobs do you know that pay EUR8k pm starting? Plus you haven't taken into account tax or interest in any of your calculations.

Be realistic with the figures and just to add i'd stay well away from paying for all this without a job!

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Jokers!!! That is double what I paid for my all of my training.

They are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Alive]

Tell me about it I am I'm same position would really love to progress but just don't have the capital.

Another thing to consider is hidden costs such as day to day money for going out, accommodation, food & drink etc

I qualified end of last year and tried for the Fly Dubai type qualification programme but didn't get it, now have 100k of debt to pay off!

Most folks work there whole life to pay off there houses and retire, Im gonna work my whole life to pay off my training.

Since this fly dubai scam went tits up I have had major fall out with parents, lost my GF of 5 years & lost touch with most of my freinds due to the sheer demand flight training consumes.

The 100 grand is secured against my parents home and is being paid over 20 year repayments!! I also borrowed 10k from the bank and used my entire life savings 20k to get this far fATPL & MECIR with 737NG type.

To say im in a hole would be an understatement

I would love to know where people get the money for this LT?!?!!

[Alive]

@JS - China Southern, Etihad, Qatar,

[JulietSierra6]

Last post on this as I don't even want to entertain it but i'd double check the sources of them figures and make sure your talking EUR and not $ and even then 8k is a stretch for JFO.

Not having a pop just saying if your seriously thinking of spending that kind of cash I would make sure you've got some realistic numbers.

Good luck to everyone on getting a job none the less!

[P40Warhawk]

Prostitution. :ugh: . WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU JUMP INTO THIS.

If you do so, you are an respectless person to all your flying colleagues. Because this SCAM brings down the T&C's. :yuk:

People who get them selves in deep s..t because of this. I dont feel sorry for you guys. You had a choice when you started your initial flight training. To do it or not.

Myself I am also jobless, but I am looking for other ways to get in. And with a bit of luck I get good news today, for another job in aviation.

Just sending out 100's of CV's does not work.

Taking the way of the least resistance says a lot about your character. I would not really like to be with you in one plane. And that is an understatement.

Actually these days , NOT the best pilots are sitting in RHS, but the retards who are stupid enough to pay for that seat, and accepting to work for 0 or low salary.

I'd rather be jobless, then working for such conditions.

Paying for initial rating with afterwords a job and long term contract with PROPER salary is a different story. For instance FR. You pay for training. And if you work hard, then you will make it through your Line Check. Then you have 0 hour contract, but you will fly around 70 hours atleast per month. And payment per hour aint bad.

[Alive]

I get your point, but I don't think the pilots even give the industry or their fellow pilots any consideration when going for this.

If there was a job flying A330 but to get to that job a few other pilots had to fall or loose some kind if benefit would you decline that job just to keep them happy or would you grab it with both hands and be ruthless?

I think in general pilots hate that they have to pay, but those that do are doing it 4 themselves to get ahead of the Que., people like me who cant afford it get no consideration, they just looking at the bigger picture IMO

Its like the other day I was at Alton Towers, there are 2 Queues 1 really long que for the folks that bought the standard pass & another Que. for the folk that bought the premium pass, needless to say I got the premium pass albeit at significant etc cost, but whilst the standard pass holders queued 2+ hrs to get on the ride I waited just 20 mins

Might sound funny but i think LT is the same, money talks those who have it get to where they want to be quicker

Even when you board a flight? Who gets called first? Its business & first class right?

I don't think these guys are prostitutes I just think there rich!!

[P40Warhawk]

Yes, I think also about fellow pilots, and about my own future. Because when you are now willing to pay for this SCAM, that means that you accept the fact, when you maybe later on get kicked out of the airline, even when you have for example 3000 hours. Getting close to Cpt. And then get kicked out for an RETARD who is willing to accept to fly for nothing and pay for his own training. That is the world upside down.
You are the one the airline needs. Without you the planes will not fly. Because you fly, the airline makes revenue. And since it is a job, they need to pay you accordingly to your responsibilities and not to forget your training. Like anywhere else in different branches.

Your comparison is not applicable to P2F Scams.
Those lines where you wait to get in whatever attraction is not applicable here. This will be always the same situation.
In aviation because of you guys willing to pay, will bring down T&C's for the guys who are already further in their flying career and for New Bees.
The experienced guys loose their seat, because why paying for an expensive pilot with experience, when you can also put there an cheap newbee pilot, willing to pay for his or her OWN training.

Myself I always think many steps ahead. Not just short term thinking. Since newbees like you and me are just in the baby shoes of our career, we have still a long road ahead. That long road I would love to fly planes till I have to go with pension. But that wont be possible, if idiots are willing to pay for their trainings and hours.

Besides above mentioned, I think like this. Treat someone else like how you wanted to get treated yourself.
I want to be treated with respect, so I treat other people with respect.
One of those ways is that I am NOT willing to pay for these kind of ****ty SCAMS. :yuk:. I have studied hard to pass all my exams first attempt , and worked hard on my flying skills , and paid, although my loan aint very big, but still it still money to get my license. Now it is up to airlines to decide if they want to take me or not.
If you work hard, you get what you deserve.

From my class, 1 had an pilot job within 2,5 months. He even could choose between 2 airlines. One he had to pay for rating, but had permanent contract. The other one he did not have to pay for his rating, and even got salary. He just signed a bond.
So it is possible. As long as you play it smart.

As I mentioned in my last post, I hope to get accepted in an EU airline for a non Pilot job first. When I am in, I build useful experience in that role, and will give my self for the full 100% for that job. Listen good and learn everyday new things, and who know, maybe in some time I get job in RHS later on.

Be patient, and try other ways to get into aviation. That does not always need to be straight into the cockpit in RHS. Everything you pick up in other roles, could be very useful when you are a pilot. You know the situation where those people have to deal with, the ones who do your job which you did as a non pilot, and together with that experience you are stronger as a team.

Again. The way of least resistance is hardly ever the best way. Only if you are a short term thinker.

[Alive]

If flying wasn't so enjoyable and thrilling we would never have this problem to begin with.

I often fantasies what i would be like to be a real life airline pilot, flying these big cool jets and making PA's.

Getting that big salary every month & driving back to ur flash apartment in your brand new sports car

All the female attention

Its all these perks that make guys do anything to get in that RHS

The very job of FO itself is the very cause of our problems

[Luggage]

Any pilot who does this should be named and shamed then banned from aviation forever!!!:ugh:

[intheblue]

Alive, I'm not going to say what everyone else would tell you about paying a #$%&load of money for a fantasy of yours that's not ever going to happen.
Don't be lazy man, do some research at least if you're so intrested about flying, I'm sick and tired of reading on this forum about people paying for 500hrs LT and hoping for a job with EY or ETD. Are you for real? Even had a look on their min requirements?
It's just not the way dude! If I had that kind of money I would consider opening up a business. Couse yes, it's not that fun to fly in the middle east and have other :mad: as bosses. Trust me on this one!
Off that chair and put some muscle in it!

[fa2fi]

Why does anyone think they would make you permanent? Much better just to just get rid of you after 300 hours ready for the next person to pay to sit in the RHS.

[Plastic787]

Alive, get real. Etihad are not going to look at a cadet with 300 on type neither are Qatar. I have no idea about China Southern but I'd imagine, in any case, they are only interested in taking Captains not FO's. Your figure of predicted earnings on the A320 are staggeringly unrealistic. Believe me I know. The A320 is stated to be the "golden type rating". It speak volumes that the only jobs available with this golden type rating right now are in the Far East. Fine if you want to live out there, miles from family and friends but many don't. Of course if you want to stay in "Europe" you may fancy earning less than a bin man's salary to fly max hours at Wizz Air and even then their recruitment is about to stop for the summer. Eastern Europe is also not the most pleasant place to live and is now firmly in the sights of the Russians.

The market is astonishingly bad right now even on the A320 and even with a so-called "economic recovery" going on.

[DILLIGAF.]

Alive...

there really is no hope for you, its your folks I feel sorry for, you show no remorse for the situation you have placed them in. You say you have to pay off the 100k debt, its your parents that will suffer these repayments, and the associated stress. All you demonstrate is immaturity. You have failed at the FZ programme. You failed, I imagine, because you want everything now, and are not prepared to put the required amount of work in. Having failed, you have not self evaluated and taken a look at your short comings, you have labelled the CAE training and FZ involvement as a scam :ugh:

A near miss for the aviation world, I am sure you would have been a joy to sit next to in the flight deck, talking about your flash cars, girlfriends with all that life experience oozing.

I wish your parents the best of luck with your loan repayments

[Crashlanding]

Alive....
"If flying wasn't so enjoyable and thrilling we would never have this problem to begin with"

True, but airline flying is day to day, very routine, only on the very rare occasions does it get thrilling, so far its only been thrilling twice for me and that's enough

"I often fantasies what i would be like to be a real life airline pilot, flying these big cool jets and making PA's. "

Hmm I dont remember making PAs to be cool.

"Getting that big salary every month & driving back to ur flash apartment in your brand new sports car"

Thats a big joke right?, big salary, not a chance, I eat via the discounted/reduced section like many pilots, flash apartment hmmm its smaller than when I was a student at university many years ago. As for my brand new sports car, yes it was new in 1994, now its paint is coming off, it has leaks, the engine is miss firing, the steering wheel and gear stick need replacing

"All the female attention"

Thats got to be the biggest joke, one of our Captains had the same ideas as you, and always say "its not how I imagined it to be", you must remember now we are just bus/train drivers, we take you from A to B and get paid less than a lot of train drivers(see london underground pay), people very very rarely show any respect for you, the amount of complaints ive seen thrown at flight crew that landed in very difficult choppy conditions and instead of people saying thanks they send complaint letters saying how awful the landing was or how the aircraft was bouncing up and down the whole way. The great bit then... Tea and Biscuits with your manager to confirm what the WX conditions where so they can explain to the director who also cannot understand how the flight was anything but as smooth as glass.

"Its all these perks that make guys do anything to get in that RHS"

Thats the very rosy tinted glasses doing that, the amount of posts on PPRUNE from airline pilots are not the ones saying we have perks,

But thats all my take on it,

I love the flying yes, very routine, very straight and level.

I dont love, T&Cs, no RPI increases, very little pay (I was on more before I started flying in a very basic job), disruption to family life, shift changes within a couple of days so you cannot plan anything further than the current day or your not going the extra mile (also means you wont make command now), sandwich's that you get to eat while flying because you dont get time in the turn rounds as your helping the guys at the back to clean the aircraft so you can try and maintain the schedule.

[pfvspnf]

Within a year the price is going to be over 100,000 Euros.

This is pathetic ! Shame on the agent, the airline and the pilot

[justagigolo77]

Alive, WOW, just WOW! I didn't know so much stupidity could be packed into one person. Your posts and your problems are caused not only by pure ignorance but also because of your complete lack of understanding of what this PROFESSION is all about. I think it's better for the PROFESSIONAL pilots, to not have people like you in the cockpit with them.

Flying an airplane is not all about T and A and making PA announcements. Until you get a grip on reality and realize the foolishness in which you spent 100k + losing everything you ever had, without doing REAL research, you will NEVER be a professional pilot.

PS. Regardless of what the scammers will tell you, if you ever take part in a P2F LT scam, you will NEVER be able to call yourself a professional. A PRO has high personal and business standards that uphold themselves too. P2F is the bottom of the barrel, the fish guts thrown to the pelicans.

Hope it was worth losing your family and long term girlfriend and every dollar you have ever had or will have to the next 30yrs for a pipe dream.

[Alive]

Maybe you are just in the wrong airline??

I accept that the lesser airlines dont pay well & may not allow FO to make PA

Im talking about the airlines that do pay big, like China Southern! Captains are making more than 1/4 Million dollars per year there!!

Emirates FO's start on 11k dollar per month
Even Lo Co like Fly Dubai pays its entry level FO's 10k$ per month + a stack load of other benefits.

Maybe this kind of money is not big to you but if I was paid this to fly those cool planes I would be over the moon.

& that salary I guarantee you would have a flash car (escort cosworth if u wanted) & a flash pad.

And with those things would also come pretty girls, all girls love pilots fact

I cant help but think to myself that the negative comments are a ambush to try & influence new people to not become pilots & flood the already overcrowded pool of New fATP's out there..

The life of an airline pilot is not to dissimilar to that of a celebrity.

If you dont agree thats fine, but this is my views on the job & i think its pretty fantastic!!

As for the user that said he its alot of straight & level not much of a thrill, i dont mind that, if you want action y dnt u become a navy seal

I just land landings anyway & ur always guaranteed to do that on every flight.

I think sitting up there looking at the view whilst relaxing sounds like my ideal job! Certainly bests working my ass off at little chef at the M4 services!!

[justagigolo77]

Alive, You have proven once again how far and away you are from ever "making it" in his industry! Good luck flipping burgers so your parents don't lose their home.

[pfvspnf]

Alive you are beginning to sound like a child!

Guaranteed to do landings?

In most of these pay to fly schemes you sit down shut up and touch the FCU if you are lucky! They may give you pf sectors but unlikely if it's a 300 hour program , they want your money!

[Alive]

So just to confirm Im a child because I have got completely the wrong end of the stick about a airline pilots lifestyle?

So just to re-confirm;

Airline pilots get less pay than window cleaners

Airline pilots live in 1 bedroom council houses with 70's style wallpaper

Airline pilots drive old Ford Serria's that have no service history

Airline pilots cannot attract good looking women because there job is so terrible

Airline pilots have the worst job in the world and there would be more productivity working as a lolipop lady

Thanks very much for clearing that up for me! I was way off with my perception of what a typical lifestyle of an airline pilot was like.

Also to the chap that think being an airline pilot is a profession if you first instruct or go through GA, i strongly disagree with you, being a pilot is a vocation no matter what route you go to make it in to an airliner, a professional is someone with a degree whom went to university for many years to become a doctor or an architect etc

This airline job is just another job, so stop thinking its the holly grail & only a select few should fly airliners, most people could fly airliners.

My dad has read this thread & he decided to increase the loan on the house so I can P2F so i will be ahead of all use ha ha ha ill show you i mean business

[justagigolo77]

So just to confirm Im a child because I have got completely the wrong end of the stick about a airline pilots lifestyle?

So just to re-confirm;

Airline pilots get less pay than window cleaners

Airline pilots live in 1 bedroom council houses with 70's style wallpaper

Airline pilots drive old Ford Serria's that have no service history

Airline pilots cannot attract good looking women because there job is so terrible

Airline pilots have the worst job in the world and there would be more productivity working as a lolipop lady

Thanks very much for clearing that up for me! I was way off with my perception of what a typical lifestyle of an airline pilot was like.

For your first decade or so, yeah, that about sums it up! Understand those guys making 250k+ per year have thousands of hours (tens of thousands) and have been at this a very long time (decades) and often started with the list you just mentioned. Get out of mommy and daddies basement, see the world, live a little and stop trusting businesses whose main goal is to get as much money from you as possible telling you whatever you need to hear to drop that 100k in their pocket.

[StevieW]

"All the female attention"

I know a number of pilots who thought they'd have women falling at their feet as soon as they got into the right hand seat, and most of them are still failing miserably attracting the opposite sex. Two bars on your shoulders doesn't give you a chiseled jaw line, a six pack or a personality.

I received far more "female attention" as a personal trainer than a pilot, and that did pay peanuts. Funny that.

(I won't comment on the rest of your trolling, you're clearly an immature kid and I hope I never have to spend a prolonged period in your presence, boring me to tears with your lack of morals and life experience)

[justagigolo77]

Alive, better yet just leave the flying of real airplanes to the big boys and girls, and you just keep playing FSX!

[pfvspnf]

alive, stop trolling.

go ahead and pay, it will get you no where! i feel sorry for your parents.

[cefey]

Alive, I like your trolling style, so I´ll play along.

Alright, you are talking about Emirates. Do you think they will accept you (you will pass assessment) after you did p2f? No.
Next one. You say 10k$ is "so much". Well, for India or Latvia - yeah! But you are talking about Emirates/FlyDubai. 10k$ is not that much over there.
When you have to pay 6000+ for rent alone, then you have to pay down your debts (education+type+p2f) + %, how much you will have left, for your "shiny sport car"? Btw, don´t forget, you have to eat as well ;)

And last, but not least. What if you do p2f, and you won´t get hired right away?
Companies require "last flight on type within 6 months". Do you have another 10-15k$ to pay each month, to log your hour? Annual renewal of your medical, IR +++?
And what about down payment of all that, without "10k from FlyDubai", working in a factory?

cheers