Are the Russians taking a tougher stance ?

[golamv]

Just seen this:

RAF Jet Chases Russian Planes Away From UK (http://news.sky.com/story/1247985/raf-jet-chases-russian-planes-away-from-uk)

[racedo]

No, thats just business as usual

[India Four Two]

ensured they did not plan to fly into British airspace

Just how would the Typhoon pilots know what the Tu-95 "planned"? :ugh:

What is considered "British airspace" in these circumstances. Is it the 12 nm limit or is there an ADIZ?

[newt]

Just like it was in the seventies! Only then we could scramble two jets from each of Leuchars, Binbrook and Wattisham! Plenty of tanker coverage too!

How quickly the public forget!:ugh:

[TEEEJ]

No. As already pointed out it is business as usual. I believe it has been about around 6 months since the Tu-95MS were last in the region?

Business as usual and only really amounts to around a dozen flights in a year.

Parliament - Written Answers to Questions 24th January 2013

Thursday 24 January 2013
Angus Robertson (Moray, Scottish National Party)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on how many occasions Royal Air Force aircraft have been launched to monitor Russian aircraft approaching UK airspace in each of the last three years; and where each such flight was (a) directed and (b) scrambled from.

Andrew Robathan (South Leicestershire, Conservative)

Royal Air Force quick reaction alert (QRA) aircraft are based at RAF Leuchars and RAF Coningsby. The number of days on which QRA aircraft have launched in response to Russian military aviation that approached or entered the NATO air policing area for which the UK has responsibility in the each of the last three years is contained in the following table. The Russian aircraft remained in international airspace at all times. Not every launch resulted in an interception as some incidents were resolved prior to interception.

Number of days QRA launched in response to Russian military aviation
2010 11
2011 10
2012 8

House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 24 Jan 2013 (pt 0001) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130124/text/130124w0001.htm#13012463001994)

It has been the Japanese that has seen an increase in Russian strategic bomber flights.

From April 19th

Japan scrambles fighters against Russian bombers for 6 days in row

The Japanese Air Self-Defense Force scrambled fighter jets after three pairs of Russian Tupolev Tu-95 bombers were detected flying around the Japanese archipelago Friday, the Defense Ministry's Joint Staff office announced.

While they did not violate Japanese airspace, this was the sixth day in a row in which Russian military planes were spotted flying close to Japan.

It is rare for the ASDF to scramble against as many as six foreign aircraft in a day. The ministry is analyzing motives behind Russia's heightened activities.

Japan scrambles fighters against Russian bombers for 6 days in row | GlobalPost (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/kyodo-news-international/140418/japan-scrambles-fighters-against-russian-bombers-6-day)

[Onceapilot]

"RAF jet chases Russian planes away from UK". It would be far better that the realities of Military flying in international airspace were correctly reported. The headline is a lie and, I have never seen accurate reporting of such events by UK Gov or MOD.:ooh:

OAP

[Whenurhappy]

Or accurate reporting in the Mail, for that matter. Has frontal shot of Typhoon and rear facing shot of a Tornado at Leuchars. But let's not the facts get in the way of a good story....

[rh200]

What is considered "British airspace" in these circumstances. Is it the 12 nm limit or is there an ADIZ?

I believe Vlad would think anything above London, isn't there a significant amount of Russian speakers there.:p

[air pig]

After reading Bod Prest's book Phantom Pilot, I'd be worried when we got to Q10 onwards, well maybe Q4 these days.

[TEEEJ]

A Russian Air Force aircraft will be conducting an observation mission over the UK today. A NOTAM is active for the 24th April. Keep your eyes peeled for an Antonov 30 Clank that is operating out of RAF Brize Norton.

Photos: Antonov An-30 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Open-Skies-(Russia/Antonov-An-30/2248712/L)


Russia to Perform Observation Flight over Great Britain

A group of Russian inspectors is expected to conduct an observation flight aboard an observation plane An-30B over the territory of the UK within the framework of the Treaty on Open Skies. This statement was made by Sergey Ryzhkov, Head of the National Nuclear Risk Reduction Center.

“The observation flight will be performed on April 22 – 25 from the Open Skies airbase at Brize Norton and will cover a maximum range of up to 2,400 kilometers. The observation flight will be conducted for the purpose of greater openness of the Open Skies Treaty’s member states,” Mr. Ryzhkov noted.

The Russian aircraft An-30B will make a flight along a route agreed upon with the British side, and UK experts will control the application of surveillance equipment and observation of treaty provisions.

Russia to Perform Observation Flight over Great Britain (http://www.siberianinsider.com/russia-to-perform-observation-flight-over-great-britain.html)

[TEEEJ]

Netherlands military spokesman reveals that the Tu-95s yesterday encroached half-mile into their airspace. I believe that the Netherlands have a 12 nautical mile limit?

Maj. Wilko Ter Horst said that the military learned around 3:50 p.m. (9:50 a.m. ET) that two Russian TU-95 bombers, known as Bears, had come a half-mile inside its airspace. A pair of Dutch F-16 military jets were then dispatched to escort the Russian planes and "ensure they (flew) out of our airspace," said Ter Horst, a Dutch military spokesman.

Dutch fighter jets intercept 2 Russian bombers in their airspace - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/russian-bombers-intercepted/)

[son of brommers]

Amazing that when the Tu-95 is retired in 2040 (thanks wiki) it will be pushing 90. Obviously not each airframe will be that age (?) but impressive none the less.
What can we in the UK compare that with..............:ugh:

[Whenurhappy]

What can we in the UK compare that with..............:ugh:

HM the Queen?

[ExRAFRadar]

Before I google, anyone know the maximum Q craft we have had to launch in one day ?

[racedo]

What can we in the UK compare that with..............:ugh:

BBMF

At this rate it could be the only thing going.

[NutLoose]

will cover a maximum range of up to 2,400 kilometers

Blimey, 2,400 kilometers to where? Ohh that one's closed, no we dug that one up years ago, no that ones shut too, Ooh that ones for sale, you interested?

Or perhaps they are intending a trip to the Turkish scrappers to see the Royal Navy fleet.

[TEEEJ]

Son of brommers wrote

Obviously not each airframe will be that age (?)

The Tu-95MS Bear H are new build. The last came off the production line in the early 1990s. Serial production was started in 1981. The Bear H is the only variant in Air Force service.

[Lima Juliet]

Op GREENFINCH tomorrow - see NOTAM

54) Posted 23 Apr 2014 16:20 GMT (17:20 BST) Tick here to remove this NOTAM from the maps and emails
H1160/14: Formation flying will take place

Q) EGTT/QWVLW/IV/M/W/000/060/5310N00132W093
ROUTE 3 OF 3 OP GREENFINCH 1/14. CATEGORY B FLIGHT PRIORITY OPEN
SKIES OVERFLIGHT FROM/TO 514500N 0013502W (BRIZE NORTON AD). AN
ANTONOV 30B ACFT, CALLSIGN OPEN SKIES 33F, WILL DEPART BRIZE NORTON
AT 1400,CLIMB ENROUTE AND FLY FLW ROUTE. END OF LEG (EOL)/WAYPOINT
(WP)POSITIONS, APRX TIMINGS AND FL/ALT (AMSL) ARE AS FOLLOWS.
EOL/WP EOL COORDINATES EOL TIMES FL/ALT(AMSL)
WP01 514050N 0014141W 1402 FL040
WP02 514112N 0015930W 1405 FL040
WP03 514747N 0021823W 1409 FL050
WP04 515411N 0021101W 1411 FL040 LOOP TURN
WP05 515336N 0020159W 1414 FL050
WP06 515951N 0020135W 1416 FL040
WP07 520203N 0025159W 1425 FL040
WP08 523810N 0024624W 1436 FL040
WP09 524437N 0024517W 1438 FL040
WP10 531144N 0025907W 1447 4000FT AMSL
WP11 531524N 0025358W 1448 4000FT AMSL
WP12 532449N 0030021W 1451 4000FT AMSL LOOP TURN
WP13 532851N 0025529W 1457 4000FT AMSL
WP14 534112N 0025551W 1501 4000FT AMSL
WP15 535305N 0024737W 1505 4000FT AMSL
WP16 534219N 0023647W 1509 4000FT AMSL
WP17 540114N 0013912W 1521 4000FT AMSL
WP18 541433N 0012446W 1526 FL050
WP19 542353N 0014513W 1531 FL050
WP20 543006N 0013615W 1533 FL040
WP21 543226N 0012834W 1535 FL040
WP22 543047N 0011615W 1537 FL040
WP23 543945N 0010929W 1540 FL040
WP24 542637N 0004614W 1546 FL050
WP25 540921N 0002337W 1553 FL050
WP26 540921N 0002337W 1604 FL040
WP27 531656N 0003517W 1611 FL040
WP28 531249N 0002909W 1613 FL040
WP29 530654N 0003344W 1615 FL040
WP30 530419N 0001617W 1618 FL040
WP31 530637N 0000403W 1620 FL040
WP32 524159N 0004154W 1630 FL040
WP33 523609N 0003442W 1632 FL040
WP34 523714N 0002252W 1634 FL040
WP35 521005N 0005959W 1645 FL040
WP36 515902N 0010526W 1648 FL040
WP37 520020N 0012507W 1652 FL040
WP38 514500N 0013502W 1657 FL050
ACFT HAS NON DEVIATING STATUS WI CONTROLLED AIRSPACE (CAS) AND IS
SUBJECT TO RADAR HANDOVER AT ALL TIMES. 14-04-0375/AS4
LOWER: Surface
UPPER: FL060
FROM: 24 Apr 2014 14:00 GMT (15:00 BST)
TO: 24 Apr 2014 16:57 GMT (17:57 BST)


Just a coincidence that the Russians are conducting "Open Skies"? Some would say, no!

LJ

[racedo]

Just a coincidence that the Russians are conducting "Open Skies"? These are scheduled well in advance just like the US / Czech one which US/Czech cancelled because of supposed bad weather 2 weeks ago, Russia followed agreed protocols but then ditched them and allowed flight take place 2 weeks late.

[Lima Juliet]

Waypoint 36 looks like Courtney Mil Towers - time 1648Z. I hope he has his shutters up on his study! :ok:

[NutLoose]

They may get a none nuclear flash then that could burn the retinas out of the back of their eyeballs if he's on the loo.. :p

[TEEEJ]

The Ministry of Defence has released images from the 23rd April of the two Tu-95MS Bear H.

5 Stunning Images Of Russian TU-95 Bear Aircraft That Approached Coast Of Scotland On Wednesday (PICTURES) (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/24/russian-tu-95-bear-aircraft-scotland_n_5208543.html)

[relight9]

Actual capabilities aside, that is a seriously good looking russian aeroplane......can't we send over a mariti.........

[MrSnuggles]

Short joke: Didn't the Norwegians just hear the noise of these beasts and decided they were too far away?

Ok, joking aside. Putin is really going for it. In Sweden we have only remnants left of what once was a pretty decent defence system. Soooo, Putin boats can do pretty much anything around here. Which they do.

An article in a Swedish newspaper, where a Russian ship tapped in on the Swedish military conversations.

Här spionerar Ryssland på Sverige | Inrikes | SvD (http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/har-spionerar-ryssland-pa-sverige_8540228.svd)

http://www.svd.se/migration_catalog/1201212.svd/representations/c/ryskspaning?1379695757000

The yellow blobs are Sensitive Sooper Seeekrit Swedish Defence Talks and Excercises and the red line is where the ship sneaked around. Gotland and Öland belongs to Sweden but there is something like 10 metres of international water between them so the Capt of that boat is a hell of a navigator.

Another joke: Our prime super duper extra top army general with extra bling (in Swedish: Överbefälhavare) sad, like two years ago, that the Swedish army could withstand ONE attack from ONE target only for ONE week. Now, the comedians in our country laughs at this and says that when the Russians invade, then we will have a proper defense worth bragging about! Black humour, methinks...

[mmitch]

If they are Russian shouldn't they have RT on the tail instead of BBC...?
mmitch

[NutLoose]

The TU-95s were escorted by a pair of MiG-31interceptors


No piccies?

Denmark, Netherlands, and Britain scrambled jets, Norway not | Barentsobserver (http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/04/denmark-netherlands-and-britain-scrambled-jets-norway-not-24-04)

[NutLoose]

The bloke has lost the plot.


The president warns against hostile action and terrorism in the Arctic and says regional oil installations must be protected. At the same time, he signs a law, empowering oil companies to establish their own armed forces.





Putin arms Arctic drillers | Barentsobserver (http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/04/putin-arms-arctic-drillers-23-04)

This will go down well with joe public if the companies say no.

Facebook, Gmail, Skype face Russia ban under 'anti-terror' plan - CNET (http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/facebook-gmail-skype-face-russia-ban-under-anti-terror-plan/)

[Heathrow Harry]

"This will go down well with joe public if the companies say no."

are you joking? some oil companies are FULL of people like Gareth from "The Office" - hell they'd buy F-35's if you let them.........................

[NutLoose]

H Harry,

Joe public as in comrade Joe public,
it's ok relaxing the old Iron Curtain and embracing the west as they have, the new generation of Russians will not remember the bad old days, shops with nothing on the shelves, KGB watching the populace, Trabbants and a Country ruled by a Dictator. They have grown up in a relatively free country, true you can raise a fervour in the Country with propaganda about those bad guys in the Ukraine so far away. But when big companies refusing to bow down to his demands that data must be held in Russia then it starts to hit home when their Facebook, Twitter accounts etc suddenly stop working and their Visa cards stop as well.... He needs to keep his populace onside, it seems an odd way to do it.

[MAINJAFAD]

If they are Russian shouldn't they have RT on the tail instead of BBC...?

I was wondering that :confused:, however, ввс россии translates as военно (military) воздушные (Air) силы (Force / Forces ) россии (Russia / Russian) = Russian Air Force.

[oldpax]

So when they approach our airspace we gently see them off.Do we ever let them come nearer to see how far they would come before turning back?

[India Four Two]

Following on from oldpax's question, I'll repeat mine:

What is considered "British airspace" in these circumstances. Is it the 12 nm limit or is there an ADIZ?

or do you wait until they are in the Leuchars ATZ?

[TEEEJ]

India Four Two,
See following.

UK Flight Information Region

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmdfence/276/276we01.gif

Supplementary memorandum from the Ministry of Defence

1a. How many times have Russian military aircraft attempted to enter UK territorial airspace in 2007, 2008 and 2009, without authorisation?

ANSWER

— Nil.
No Russian military aircraft have attempted to enter UK territorial airspace, which extends 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline.

Russian military aircraft operate in international airspace and have every right to exercise their defence capabilities.

1b. How many times have Russian military aircraft attempted to enter the UK flight information region in 2007, 2008 and 2009, without authorisation?

ANSWER

— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on 10 separate days in 2007.
— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on six separate days in 2008.
— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on two separate days in 2009 (correct as of 1 May).

The UK Flight Information Region, outside of 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline, remains international airspace
but to transit the area aircraft are required to file flight plans, communicate with Air Traffic Control and utilise secondary surveillance radar (SSR),
a means for providing information on the air traffic control agency and height. Russian military aircraft do not adhere to these accepted
Air Traffic Control requirements.

This is against International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) regulations for which Russia is a signatory state and poses
a potential flight safety risk. We are taking this issue forward with Department for Transport,
who through the Civil Aviation Authority and the National Air Traffic Services contract provide Air Traffic Control services.

The UK Flight Information Region (see map below) contains some of the busiest airspace in Europe including the transatlantic air route structure.
Within the UK Flight Information Region, Air Traffic Control operations rely largely on SSR to maintain safe distances
between aircraft operating in close proximity. Aircraft not transponding SSR can therefore be invisible to
Air Traffic Control operators. Risks to flight safety are mitigated by close liaison between UK Air Defence and Air Traffic Control units.
Air Defence units use a combination of primary radar and SSR and are able to detect such aircraft within Air Defence radar coverage.
The launch of UK Quick Reaction Alert aircraft to intercept unidentified aircraft also mitigates the flight safety risk.

House of Commons - Defence Committee - Written Evidence (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmdfence/276/276we22.htm)

47. The UK press have featured stories that imply that Russia's air tactics are a threat to UK security.

[76] We sought information from the MoD to clarify the scale and nature of the issue of military incursions into NATO and UK airspace.

We were told that during 2007-2009 no Russian aircraft have entered UK airspace—defined as 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline—without authorisation.

However, Russian military aircraft have entered the UK Flight Information Region—outside UK territorial airspace—without permission.

This is part of international airspace and, as such, Russia is able to exercise its defence capabilities there.

House of Commons - Russia: a new confrontation? - Defence Committee (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmdfence/276/27605.htm)

The latest figures on Russian long-range bombers over the North Sea were released by the Ministry of Defence under Freedom of Information laws.

On each of the 47 occasions since 2008, the Russians entered the Scottish Flight Information Region but turned back before they reached the UK's 12 mile sovereign airspace.

There have also been nine approved visits where Russian aircraft were flown directly over Scotland, including refuelling stops.

SNP pledge Scottish air force as Russian deterrent | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/328508/SNP-pledge-Scottish-air-force-as-Russian-deterrent)

[India Four Two]

TEEJ,

Thanks for the information. Fascinating stuff, but completely contradictory information from the MOD.;)

In the first quote:
to transit the area aircraft are required to file flight plans, communicate with Air Traffic Control and utilise secondary surveillance radar (SSR),
a means for providing information on the air traffic control agency and height. Russian military aircraft do not adhere to these accepted
Air Traffic Control requirements.and in the second:
However, Russian military aircraft have entered the UK Flight Information Region—outside UK territorial airspace—without permission.

This is part of international airspace and, as such, Russia is able to exercise its defence capabilities there.So even Sir Humphrey can't make up his mind on this one.

[Gemini Twin]

Interesting Thatcher quote from 20 years ago.


"I cannot imagine how any diplomat, or any dramatist, could improve on ( Ronald Reagan's ) words to Mikhail Gorbachev at the Geneva summit: 'Let me tell you why it is we distrust you.' Those words are candid and tough and they cannot have been easy to hear. But they are also a clear invitation to a new beginning and a new relationship that would be rooted in trust." -- Eulogy at the funeral of former President Ronald Reagan, June 11, 2004.

[WhatsaLizad?]

The Ministry of Defence has released images from the 23rd April of the two Tu-95MS Bear H.


I guess I missed it. I thought they ditched the Soviet red star marking unless I'm mistaken?

[TEEEJ]

WhatsaLizad? wrote

I thought they ditched the Soviet red star marking unless I'm mistaken?

During the early 1990s the Russians opted to keep a star. It appears that they are going to return to a one-tone red star

From 2013

Soviet Markings Return to the Russian Air Force

Russia’s Air Force Command, in agreement with the Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu, is changing the identification markings on its military aircraft. The newspaper “Izvestiya,” citing a source in the military department, writes that instead of red stars with piping in the colors of the Russian flag (white, blue, and red) a simple red star will be used, similar to those formerly painted on Soviet aircraft. There is a single difference—the stars will be smaller.

Russia’s Air Force Command assesses that the bright stars with tricolor piping break up the camouflage of its aircraft in flight. The basic idea of switching out identification markings is derived from the perception that they strongly contrast with the camouflage paint schemes of airplanes and helicopters. Such paint patterns are meant to erode the contours of aircraft, making them imperceptible at long distances and harder to identify by type at short distances.

In accordance with Shoigu’s decision, Russian military airplanes and helicopters will carry the one-tone red star without piping and the star’s size will be decreased by half. Such a variation in markings for Russian Air Force aircraft will not appear definitive, as the red star, even without the piping, contrasts with current camouflage schemes. In the long-term, Russian aircraft are planned to carry outlined identification markings in the shape of a star, a concept already worked out and undergoing trials.

The Russian Air Force is currently flying the proposed outlined identification markings only on the T-50 fighter (also known as the Prospective Front Aviation Aircraft System or PAK FA), and the markings are carried on all four existing prototypes. The Russian Ministry of Defense’s Scientific-Investigation Institute is currently defining the optimal thickness and size of the new identification markings. Outlining the star with a dotted-line pattern is also a possibility.

Identification markings in the form of a one-tone red star without piping were used on Soviet Air Force aircraft from 1918 to 1943, and then were switched out for red stars with white piping and a thin red outline. They were maintained in this form until March of 2010, when then-serving Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdiukov decided they would be exchanged for stars with tri-color piping and a thin red outline.

After the fall of the USSR, certain Russian military and political leaders called for replacing the red star as an identification marking, with some proposing the use of Russia’s state flag or even the aircraft markings of the Russian Empire. Nevertheless, in the first half of the ‘90s, the decision was taken to keep the red star on airplanes and helicopters because it is a well-known recognition symbol throughout the world.

In the meantime, replacing recognition markings is not the only change expected for Russian Air Force aircraft. At the end of December 2012 Shoigu decided to abandon the common gray-shade camouflage pattern. In the coming year, aircraft repaired, modernized, or fresh from the factories will be painted in colors characterizing the region in which they are based.

Foreign Military Studies Office - Operational Environment Watch April 2013 (http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/OEWatch/201307/Russia_05.html)

Sukhoi T-50s with proposed identification markings.

Photos: Sukhoi T-50 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-T-50/2429608/L)

Photos: Sukhoi T-50 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-T-50/2422797/L)

Photos: Sukhoi T-50 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-T-50/2391727/L)

[HTB]

From the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (which has some relevance to the airspace as well; Article 2 2):



UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA (http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm)



PART II



TERRITORIAL SEA AND CONTIGUOUS ZONE



SECTION 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS



Article2



Legal status of the territorial sea, ofthe air space over the territorial sea and of its bedand subsoil


1.The sovereignty of a coastal State extends, beyond its land territory andinternal waters and, in the case of an archipelagic State, its archipelagicwaters, to an adjacent belt of sea, described as the territorial sea.

2.This sovereignty extends to the air space over the territorial sea as well asto its bed and subsoil.

3.The sovereignty over the territorial sea is exercised subject to thisConvention and to other rules of international law.


SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA



Article3



Breadth of the territorial sea


EveryState has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to alimit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined inaccordance with this Convention.


Article4



Outer limit of the territorial sea


Theouter limit of the territorial sea is the line every point of which is at adistance from the nearest point of the baseline equal to the breadth of theterritorial sea.


Article5



Normal baseline


Exceptwhere otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuringthe breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast asmarked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Mister B

(I was looking because Alec Salmond was intimating that in the event of separation from UK if the EU did not let Scotland join the club, he would deny access by EU boats (French and Spanish etc fishing types) to Scottish waters - big deal, 12 nm exclusion zone)

[golamv]

Japan fighters scramble more to see off Chinese, Russians- Nikkei Asian Review (http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Japan-fighters-scramble-more-to-see-off-Chinese-Russians)

[500N]

China is certainly ramping up pressure over there, in that area at least.