Russia beating up USA warship [Archive]

HAS59

14th Apr 2014, 17:21

1,000 yards and 500 ft! - That's well within the guidelines used by a shrinking airforce near you which used to fly Maritime Patrol aircraft.

To be fair I do have photos of RAF Jaguars significantly closer to Soviet Navy ships - back in the days when Kriegsmarine Starfighters would overfly the Baltic Sea AGI at Mach 1.

And ... among others, photos of Soviet Navy May's lifting their wings to avoid the masts of Royal Navy Frigates.

Yes this sort of thing does go on ...

Let's just hope we don't have another case of 'AGEIS Arrogance' and the jolly yankee sailors just enjoy the show.

Emel.OW

14th Apr 2014, 17:43

Courtney Mil, we have a VERY different view on the latest events, and I wouldn't like to get into a long and useless discussion, but what I really see is Russia and US trying to show their muscles. US warship in Black Sea, what's that??? Why no russian warships near US border? Nevertheless, being somehow distant from military subjects, I do really consider this a kind of a show. Hope there are some clever people to prevent further escalation.

West Coast

14th Apr 2014, 17:48

Russian spy ship visits Havana (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/27/russia-cuba-warship/5876249/)

Why no russian warships near US border?

TEEEJ

14th Apr 2014, 18:54

Emel.OW wrote

US warship in Black Sea, what's that???

Nothing new in US Navy vessels in the Black Sea. It is freedom of navigation. Romania and Bulgaria and Turkey are also NATO members and the US Navy regularly conduct exercises and drills in the Black Sea. US Navy also exercise and make port visits to Ukraine and Georgia.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=75504

USS Jason Dunham Completes Underway Training for Sea Breeze 2012 | EUCOM, Stronger Together (http://www.eucom.mil/article/23937/uss-jason-dunham-completes-underway-training-for-sea-breeze-2012)

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=60839

Geehovah

14th Apr 2014, 18:58

Its gone on for 50 years. The secret is not to take it too far. Remember 1962?

I may have been guilty in the past.

ValMORNA

14th Apr 2014, 19:06

Is it a just continuation of the 'Ferret' system to check the radio and radar capabilities of the 'target'?

MPN11

14th Apr 2014, 19:07

My BIL was helping drive the Vulcan passing the Kiev (?) with the assorted chaff/flares going off. I think there's a colour copy of that in his Study :)

Emel.OW

14th Apr 2014, 19:21

Nothing new in US Navy vessels in the Black Sea. It is freedom of navigation. Romania and Bulgaria and Turkey are also NATO members and the US Navy regularly conduct exercises and drills in the Black Sea.

Yes, and that's the point! A little bit disturbing to have such activity near your border, isn't it? Especially these days.

Its gone on for 50 years. The secret is not to take it too far.

Exactly!

Lordflasheart

14th Apr 2014, 20:10

Glad Rag - "It's ok, he fires one, I fire one"

Book 'em Danno ! LFH

Busta

14th Apr 2014, 21:01

I remember meeting a P3 and a Nimrod in my Triangle over the Med one fine day, and treating the Kiev with some others to an assortment of flypasts. Never seen any pictures.

rh200

14th Apr 2014, 21:42

US warship in Black Sea, what's that??? Why no russian warships near US border?

The Russians like to think the Black sea belongs to them, regardless of the the law. Thats why they make this big build up of American forces bullsh!t they are playing at home.

Cr@p how far have the Russian Navy and Airforce fallen if they regard one p!ss ant destroyer as a huge build up.

Fox3WheresMyBanana

14th Apr 2014, 22:42

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag156/RickXI/559c2a56-033f-4a9e-956d-453504275a60_zps12eed85f.jpg
Of course, we never used to beat up Sov ships, did we? :E

500 foot?? I realise this is US low level, but it's more likely to generate derision than annoyance

Emel.OW

14th Apr 2014, 23:18

The Russians like to think the Black sea belongs to them, regardless of the the law. Thats why they make this big build up of American forces bullsh!t they are playing at home.

Well, Americans like to think the whole world belongs to them, regardless of the law. That's why they start this bullsh!t.

Easy Street

14th Apr 2014, 23:39

That's why they start this bullsh!t.

Interested to see a description of how America started the invasion of Crimea. Anyway, it depends whether you define bullsh!t as:

a) Sailing a solitary, unsupported warship in international waters

b) Fomenting unrest in a neighbouring state on the basis of unsubstantiated (and almost certainly false) threats of ethnic cleansing as a pretext to proxy invasion using suspiciously well-equipped and uniformly-dressed local 'militias', while repeating the story on national media until even Putin himself believes it!

No sign yet of any Russian-marked vehicles in eastern Ukraine. Anyone care to speculate on the fate of the commander whose unit omitted to delete their markings before going onto the streets of Crimea? :E

rh200

15th Apr 2014, 00:17

Anyone care to speculate on the fate of the commander whose unit omitted to delete their markings before going onto the streets of Crimea?

I think theres most likely not to much media attention in Siberia.:E

N2erk

15th Apr 2014, 00:58

I like F3's piccie- I even think I remember what it is!:ok: Yeah I noticed 1/2 mile and 500 feet- Sukhoi must have been a mere dot on the horizon. However to the general public, reading the articles stressing how dangerous this is, it must seem like a big deal. I remember in 2009 &2010, when our (Canada's) Defence Minister made a series of big press releases like the following Canadians hunt Russian Bear | Welland Tribune (http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2009/03/03/canadians-hunt-russian-bear-2) or another when Bears came 463 kilometres east of Goose Bay, Newfoundland. "closer than we have seen in recent times."and we "chased them away". guaranteed to excite the citizenry.
Only ship I ever got close to was a close photoshoot with the IAF camera of a tanker off Grimsby suspected of leaving a big oil slick.

Barksdale Boy

15th Apr 2014, 01:16

June 5th 1980. 27 Sqn had missed a sortie or something and so it was up to us as a 617 (non-MRR crew) to relocate the Kiev/Minsk (can't remember which). We found the group, which immediately huddled together for warmth, i.e. to form one radar response. They then split and we had to decide which response to concentrate on before a descent for a SELPRO. We homed in at 500' and at about 8nm the AEO's panel lit up as I had never seen it before. Luckily we had chosen the right return and the great vessel hoved into view out of the murk. The captain said, "If you open the bomb doors, I shall be very cross." (Or words to that effect.) I stayed on HOME rather than go to BOMB and scuttled up the ladder for a good view. As we passed over her the ship's company were waving their headgear - all good, clean fun.

Saint Jack

15th Apr 2014, 01:41

"It's ok, he fires one, I fire one" is a quote from the movie 'The Bedford Incident' (Richard Widmark, Sidney Poitier, Martin Balsam, Ronnie Cox) not from Hawaii Five-0.

GreenKnight121

15th Apr 2014, 02:00

"It's ok, he fires one, I fire one" is a quote from the movie 'The Bedford Incident' (Richard Widmark, Sidney Poitier, Martin Balsam, Ronnie Cox) not from Hawaii Five-0.

Hawaii Five-O originally aired for 12 seasons from 1968 to 1980.
Detective Daniel "Danno" Williams, played by James MacArthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_MacArthur)* (Seasons 1-11)

* Though many of his movie parts were not starring roles, and some were quite brief, they were usually pivotal to the plot. His role in The Bedford Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bedford_Incident) was that of a young ensign who becomes so rattled by the needling of his Captain (Richard Widemark) that he accidentally fires an ASROC at a Soviet submarine, thus creating a nuclear incident when the submarine returns fire, resulting in the destruction of both vessels.

MFC_Fly

15th Apr 2014, 03:11

1,000 yards and 500 ft! - That's well within the guidelines used by a shrinking airforce near you which used to fly Maritime Patrol aircraft.
That may well be so, but international protocol limits the number of passes to 3, not 12 :eek:

rh200

15th Apr 2014, 03:24

That may well be so, but international protocol limits the number of passes to 3, not 12

Has anyone looked at the exact definition of a "pass":p the way the baby bear has been going lately they may have found a technicality.

Along those lines I read on one of the news reports that the aircraft in question had no markings on it. Must of been one of those "non Russian" proclaimed self defence forces jet.:E

TEEEJ

15th Apr 2014, 07:02

West Coast,
Viktor Leonov SSV-175 was noted off Florida along with Tug Nikolay Chiker during March. Nikolay Chiker is now back off Florida.

15th April 06 GMT

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/TOMMYJO/NikolayChiker15thApril2014.jpg

Emel.OW

15th Apr 2014, 07:23

Fomenting unrest in a neighbouring state

The question is WHO was fomenting unrest in Ukraine. I do believe that Ukrainian people had had enough with their former gov, but trust me, no rebellion can be unplanned or uncontrolled.
And one more thing - we're all living in a media-controlled world, so neither you nor me have the whole picture of what is happening, so let's try to be a little bit more skeptical when watching TV next time.
That's the reason why I say: let the military guys play their games, at least they'll have some more stories to tell their grandchildren about a crazy Russian fighter or a gigantic US warship ;)

Easy Street

15th Apr 2014, 08:59

Viktor Leonov SSV-175 was noted off Florida along with Tug Nikolay Chiker during March. Nikolay Chiker is now back off Florida.

I guess the F-35 operation out of Eglin must be limited to basic pilot training when those chaps are around. I always thought it was a slightly odd choice of location!

rh200

15th Apr 2014, 09:00

we're all living in a media-controlled world, so neither you nor me have the whole picture of what is happening, so let's try to be a little bit more skeptical when watching TV next time.

Your right there, but there's a major difference between the west and Russia. The media is controlled by various entity's that have there own agenda. In Russia it looks like its actually getting controlled by a single entity.

Emel.OW

15th Apr 2014, 09:37

Your right there, but there's a major difference between the west and Russia

I think there's no major difference if you believe in what you've just said.

Here's a picture for you

http://demotivation.me/images/20100129/yjofrhgqt7la.jpg

Sorry for Russian, but you'll get the meaning.

Roland Pulfrew

15th Apr 2014, 09:47

That may well be so, but international protocol limits the number of passes to 3, not 12

Surely if you are not at the minimum distances, then its not a pass? ISTR it was only 3 passes at the minimum separation distance. Outside those distances you weren't doing a 'pass'. Must admit 500 feet and half a mile doesn't seem like a problem to me; not very threatening and very close. The sailors on board would need a pretty long lens to get their own happy snaps of the "bad guys"!!

melmothtw

15th Apr 2014, 10:40

Interesting picture Emel. I see a US soldier giving a drink of water to an Iraqi prisoner. What do you see?

rh200

15th Apr 2014, 11:33

I think there's no major difference if you believe in what you've just said.

Hardly, it means one is controlled or at least intimidated by the Kremlin. The others are controlled by a variety of interests, with the common denominater for most, not all, being to make money for the corporation they work for.

This will give a right wing view for some and a left for others, and a mixture depending on the independent reporters they have reporting live from the scene.

At the end of the day if you are really interested in whats going on its easy enough to filter out the sh!t. Another words its obvious what news is just propaganda.

minigundiplomat

15th Apr 2014, 12:41

Having worked with Russian pilots, he was probably p1ssed out of his brain and bored with licking scorpions or something equally daft.

Lonewolf_50

15th Apr 2014, 12:46

FoN Ops in the Black Sea. I remember being in a few back in the 80's. A few days port call in Istanbul (woo hoo! :ok:) followed by a few days sailing near the territorial limits of Bulgaria, Romania, and various points north. Always had a welcoming committee, and always had an escort. Usually got a flypast from our friends with Red Stars, once it was a Backfire.

On another occasion, there was a Slava and a Krivak in formation with us, and an FFL (forget the class... EDIT, might have been a Petya). If we had the same flag signals, the five of us could have done division maneuvring tactics for a while. As it was, when they came close by to play chicken with us, our CO put on our above deck loudspeaker "Back in the USSR" by the Beatles, at full blast. Good times had by all.

Now that the Bulgarians and Romanians are on side with us, the Black Sea visits are doubtless more interesting than before, with port calls in places like Varna. :ok:

The INCSEA agreements (http://www.state.gov/t/isn/4791.htm)were drawn up to avoid messy things happening when playing tag. Not sure if US and Russia have renewed them, or established a newer protocol.

West Coast,
Viktor Leonov SSV-175 was noted off Florida along with Tug Nikolay Chiker during March. Nikolay Chiker is now back off Florida. 15th April 06 GMT
Has he dropped by to pay his taxes? :}

Bannock

15th Apr 2014, 12:50

I remember the good old days of FOST training at Portland when prior to kick off of the Thursday War, a Russian AGI would park its arse slap bang in the middle of the Ex area. The Hunters would get airborne for their air raids on the Fleet (when we had one !) and warm up by buzzing the hell out of it.
Always met with a "Good Morning" from said ship.

All very amicable.

West Coast

15th Apr 2014, 13:35

Easy street

Eglin is,hundred of miles away on the panhandle of Florida. They are set up quite nicely to observe any missile launches however.

Eclectic

15th Apr 2014, 13:54

Ukrainian air force staying under the radar today:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlRExiJCUAA5I9i.png

N2erk

15th Apr 2014, 14:11

THAT looks lower than 500 feet, and far more fun!:ok:

melmothtw

15th Apr 2014, 14:13

Eglin is,hundred of miles away on the panhandle of Florida.

Is it? It was right on the panhandle last time I was there....

Edited to add: Helps if I actually read what's said before commenting. Apologies.

Eclectic

15th Apr 2014, 15:35

Seems like for the first time in decades Russian (or before that Soviet) tactical warplanes are getting more real use in the world than American ones.

Ukrainian airforce SU 27 video: Su-27 Fighter Jet Above Kramatorsk Caught On Tape | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-15/su-27-fighter-jet-above-kramatorsk-caught-tape)

gr4techie

15th Apr 2014, 17:06

Navaleye

15th Apr 2014, 18:04

If it had been a British ship, the conversation would have gone like this.

This is British warship xx (number) to unknown aircraft bearing xyz. If you continue to fly an attack profile I will be forced to take defensive measures. this is your final warning..

Then.

Stand to Sea Dart.

Biggus

15th Apr 2014, 18:17

Navaleye,

Presumably that "warning" would have to be given in Russian to have any chance of actually achieving anything useful...

Navaleye

15th Apr 2014, 18:19

What is the international language of the air?

henra

15th Apr 2014, 18:26

Ukrainian airforce SU 27 video: Su-27 Fighter Jet Above Kramatorsk Caught On Tape | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-15/su-27-fighter-jet-above-kramatorsk-caught-tape)

Hmm, not to be nitpicking but considering the planform of the wingtips, the Silhouette of the LERX and the angle and planform of the Tail feathers that definitely looked like a Mig 29 rather than a SU-27.

RAFEngO74to09

15th Apr 2014, 18:28

A retired USN aviator capt commented today on Fox News that the extant international agreement regarding flying near warships specifies a height of 1000 ft parallel to the ship and that in the Cold War days it would have been normal for a diplomatic protest to be filed.

GR4 techie:

Indeed, well-trained Buccaneer crews flew very low over the sea. It's been shown may times before but look at the video below and pause at 2 min 37 sec. The wing is below the top of the side of the hull of a RN Type 42 which I estimate to be 20ft to 30ft above the sea. I'm sure some ex-Buccaneer aircrew on here could comment further / correct:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6QckzDpUQ8

Also, in the flyby of the ATC tower at Gibralter in the video, the wings are below the level of the roof of the ground floor roof / VCR interface. Brings back memories of the RAF Laarbruch demonstrations of 16-ship coordinated airfield attacks where some aircraft were below the level of the Bloodhound radar heads (raised on mounds).

Biggus

15th Apr 2014, 18:44

.... and that means every aviator in the world understands English does it?

Navaleye

15th Apr 2014, 18:51

Well yes. I have met some Czech, Polish and Russian Aviators who spoke perfect English

Biggus

15th Apr 2014, 18:53

So you've met every aviator in the world, and they all speak 'perfect' English!

That's alright then!

I remember many years ago, in the days of TACEVAL, when we were playing the role of the defecting aircraft. We were given a Russian speaker as part of the plan, and the confusion caused when he made all our inbound radio calls in Russian, and 'didn't understand' any of the replies was a cause of considerable amusement - but also an indication of a possible problem if it ever happened for real.

Taking a Spanish speaker along when going out to find a Spanish FV with sick crewman on board was also generally very useful - although why we bothered I don't know, after all, I believe that the international language of the sea is English!

Emel.OW

15th Apr 2014, 19:57

Interesting picture Emel. I see a US soldier giving a drink of water to an Iraqi prisoner. What do you see?

I see just people doing their jobs. US soldiers transporting Iraqi prisoner to somewhere they're told to; a prisoner just about to die after serving his government; mass media telling people what they have to tell.
I don't believe in black&white anymore, I just see that everyone is a part of the system, and that's the way the things have been for eternity. Just relax and enjoy your life.

glad rag

15th Apr 2014, 20:22

Lonewolf_50

15th Apr 2014, 20:34

I don't understand Team America World Police, how they shot down Iran Air Flight 665 in 1988 because they thought it was an Iranian F-14. Yet offer no deterrent to the Russian SU-24 that was doing as it pleases.
Might be because you're as thick as a prop shaft.
26 years ago,
a different captain,
a different situation (note no surface action to distract the captain in this case)
Captain Rogers' Airbus event became a "lessons learned" training module,
a visual,
INCSEA agreements ...
so no, not the same thing at all.

rh200

15th Apr 2014, 21:31

@grtechie

A different situation as said by LW is an understatement, suggest you read upon the incident. A typical c0ckup involvin multiple factors.

The Russians are not going to attack a US warship without a real good reason, and every one knows that. If they where in the Gulf and It was Iranian it could be a different story.

unmanned_droid

15th Apr 2014, 21:45

Henra,

Agreed. Not familiar with the white radome though...that is something I associate with Su-27s. I associate a neutral grey and dark green as radome colours for Mig-29s. However, a quick google shows that Ukrainian Mig-29s have had white radomes. So maybe this is in fact footage of a Ukrainian Mig-29?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ztVhNUTQWOo/U02n2_Wr5OI/AAAAAAAAAWY/zEiFpgpflzc/s800/Screen%2520Shot%25202014-04-15%2520at%252022.30.56.jpg

Googled pic.....

Photos: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 (9-13) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ukraine---Air/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-29-%289-13%29/1407029/L/&sid=e24a7333368d19bc3be2906674d9ca83)

RAFEngO74to09

15th Apr 2014, 22:22

glad rag,

Hilarious comedy Sea Dart footage - I could swear I heard someone say "Sh#@" as it went off like a damp squib and set the ship on fire !

West Coast

16th Apr 2014, 02:26

Go easy on GR4 techie, he was a maintainer (an absolute necessity) and hasn't a background in the operational end.

Bannock

16th Apr 2014, 13:27

More like,

If it had been a British ship, the conversation would have gone like this.

This is British warship xx (number) to unknown aircraft bearing xyz. If you continue to fly an attack profile I will be forced to launch a rubber boat full of sailors and get them to surrender. this is your final warning..

Then.

Stand too White flag. :E

Just having a laugh Naval Eye, dont have a coronary.:ok: