MXP/JFK ..

[nakbin330]

EK lose the case brought against them by Alitalia. MXP-JFK to be dropped.

[777boyindubai]

Italian court bars Emirates from flying key route - Culture & Society - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/italian-court-bars-emirates-from-flying-key-route-546108.html)

No more seats to India

No more seats to YYZ

No more flights via MXP to JFK

The price of arrogance from our beloved "Management"

[Mr Good Cat]

Don't know how that's classed as arrogance.

Anyhow, the backup plan is operating to the US via the UK regional hubs. Think they already had the rights to MAN-USA before they announced MXP-JFK.

There's no local competition either, only US carriers flying the routes - so they can just call it a 'mini hub' and claim to be investing in the local economy in the UK regions.

Watch this space.

[crewmeal]

In that case it's Italy's loss and could be Manchester's gain.

[myekppa]

Totally agree with Good Cat.

I fail to see the arrogance in seeking and gaining approval via legitimate channels to operate an air service?

American carriers, and probably AZ as well, have operated many 5th freedom services before and still do. Let's call it 'quid pro quo'.

Whose the winner here if the court order stands? No one. The AZ shareholders may gain a reprieve until the next lease payment is due, but eventually something will need to change in the AZ model for them to be a profitable entity that provides both, a level of service that customers expect and viable returns to the shareholders.

[RoyalEnfield]

Does that mean we get it back on the 330? :)

[TheDarkHorse]

Whilst I realise that some may not agree with me I personally feel that this is a step in the right direction. Far too often the company bully's others into getting what they want. Now while this will have been done legitimately and that I understand, I feel its a blow to the EK ego who think they are virtually invincible.
They need to eat some humble pie and maybe this will spur other such events to ensure that EK is brought to a more humble level.

I would hate to see the UK govt bow down to EK, regardless of how much money they "bring" to the economy. The management need to realise that they cannot do what they want just because they are EK.

Much like the hotel contract in SFO, "oh no we won't pay $5 more because we're EK" now they have a worse hotel further away from the city and paying over $15 more because of arrogance - yes I consider this arrogance

[Panther 88]

And I am sure that the airline that can't be named investing up to 49.9% into Alitalia, has nothing to do with the judges decision.

[ekwhistleblower]

They are barking getting involved with Alitalia and it's onions! It will bite them mark my words.

[Rather Be Skiing]

Slavers back to their sandy castles...:ok: Etihad will never happen EU to block the deal. Paradoxically seen the developments in Doha Qatar will be soon the best employer in the area..

One day I may actually take the time to figure out what you are trying to say... But, it is not this day!

[Mach_Krit]

to be fair...it probably made sense in his mind.

[crewmeal]

Italians have always done what they want and with who they want when they want and usually stick 2 fingers up to EU rules if it suits them.

[Trader]

The Italians should do what they want--it's their country! That attitude most certainly prevails here in the ME--they will do what they want, when they want. Why should Italy, or any country for that mater, be different.

[BLOGGSON]

The difference is that the Italians make fantastic motorbikes and have brilliant dress sense. Folks from the Arabian Gulf on the other hand.......

[MumbaiRadio]

EK has been granted permission to operate the route until the 6 of May to allow for some relief during the easter holidays.

On another note .. I spotted the first Alfa 4c on SZR the other day .. divine!

[ETOPS240]

My money is on EY causing this fuss. That, or Alitalia's executives need to refocus their efforts elsewhere.

This is nothing more than Manchester's gain being Italy's loss.

Much as I dislike their bully-boy antics, EK will get their way most of the time. Airbus have tens of billions in money to arrive from EK, and EK have an ability to defer/cancel to put the pressure on Airbus/EU. That will have an effect on any negotiations EK conduct with governments.

Also, EK are focusing on the US being their largest growth market in the medium term. The US majors hate rights being doled out left and right to EK, but ultimately, as TC has said - they have hundreds of orders for widebody Boeing jets. If the US don't capitulate, they can have the jets back!

With the likelihood of hundreds more aircraft orders, that is tens, and ultimately even hundreds of billions of dollars of export trade. The price of the additional competition to their major carriers pales into insignificance compared to the amount of money EK is bringing in the the US. Unfortunately, the US carriers refuse to believe that any of this 'unfair comptetition' is to do with their abortion of a product, or utterly disgraceful service.

EK will get their way.

[cerbus]

What a childish statement to say "they can take their airplanes back if they don't let us in."
That goes beyond childish. What does buying Boeings have to do with the State Department and the FAA letting in a foreign carrier?
Just goes to show you how the middle east operates. In the sand with the Command Economy one man or one department decides everything. In the Western world you have checks and balances and many different facets of the economy. One man doesn't decide everything and can not interfere in an area that does'n't belong to him.
The Arab world will never learn.

[ETOPS240]

I'm not saying it's right, but it is what happens.

To answer your question, however - What buying Boeings in exorbitant numbers does for you, is raise your lobbying power immensely. If you don't think that hundreds of billions of dollars in potential export purchases carries immense negotiating capital, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

The US will weigh up the cost of cancellations to their economy vs the cost of the competition to their carriers. That's a pretty one-sided result.

It could also be a win-win of the US carriers provided a non-embarrassing product; EK fulfils its order obligations, and US carriers actually tried to compete.

If you don't understand that concept, then there's plenty of literature to help you.

[cerbus]

I understand Economics 101 but what I don't understand is how the Arabs think.
There short sightedness and lack of understanding of how a market economy with representative democracy works is very telling not to mention the kindergarten mentality of "I am taking my ball and going home" is very childish.
We all know they are not going to cancel their orders with both Boeing and Airbus so acting like children is not the best way with dealing with civilised countries. It makes them look foolish and exposes them for the lack of education and sophistication we all know they lack.

[yoyonow]

Cerbus,

Their short sightedness not there..............

It makes them look foolish and exposes them for the lack of education and sophistication we all know they lack.

[777boyindubai]

EK lease their planes. They haven't bought in the past. I understand they are now purchasing some outright as financing isn't as easy for them to obtain at the rates they want to pay. If EK don't buy planes there are plenty of other buyers.

The bully boy tactics are coming home to roost. EK are now on the radar for a host of reasons. Not many of them positive. TC's arrogance in his dealings with the Indians is well known; it got him nowhere. Ditto Germany and Canada and now Italy.

The Americans won't be pressured by EK. There is only one country in this region that pressures America. It ain't these guys.

EK is the cash cow that is being used to pay some of Dubai Inc's debts. They will play brinkmanship games, but they will always back away at the end. Just like they did with Canada

[fatbus]

For most of the Capt's here would not be effected by any slow down in the expansion . FO's on the other hand a big effect and poss a big effect on recruitment. This year @100 upgrades on the 380 and@30 on the 777 maybe a few on the 330 but that it, I'm guessing 2015 will be much the same or even a bit slower. 3500 pilots @ 1800 capt ,by years end 3800 and 1950 capt . Next year ? Good luck

[stealthpilot]

I understand Economics 101 but what I don't understand is how the Arabs think.Errrr ... did I miss something? When did EK say (in all seriousness) they will cancel 380/777 orders if they dont get rights :confused:

An Italian court ruled the MXP-JFK rights were granted incorrectly, how these rights work none of us will know. Many other airlines have 5th freedom rights including Europe-beyond. This is more politics from Alitalia/Assaereo than anything else.

[777boyindubai]

A statement to that effect was issued at the Airshow by a senior ek staff member. I will have a look online and post. It was said though.

[sheiken around]

This ought to answer that....

West must loosen airport access or we may cancel jet orders ? Sheikh Ahmed - Politics & Economics - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/west-must-loosen-airport-access-we-may-cancel-jet-orders-sheikh-ahmed-526765.html)

[777boyindubai]

Thanks, Shaken. was just about to post the same link.

[TheDarkHorse]

:ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: They are so arrogant...one day their day will come and they will not be quite so arrogant or powerful. I look forward to this day :E

[nolimitholdem]

West must loosen airport access or we may cancel jet orders – Sheikh Ahmed

Setting aside the whole "holding my breath till I turn blue" petulance of such a stance (which does sum up the level of sophistry of the place).

The logic (??) is that EK will cancel their aircraft orders that they need to serve new destinations - if they can't get more access to new destinations?

Ohhh. OK.

Let them buy airframes from the Chinese and Russians then.

Sheikh Ahmed said some governments were hindering business and affecting customer convenience by refusing to allow airlines more landing slots, in some cases to protect national carriers.

Yes, the concern for local business and customer convenience is touching. Couldn't have anything to do with not being able to expand unimpeded with the tsunami of cheap labour to further the company's massive profits. Could it?