Just how high do these things go

[ExRAFRadar]

From FighterControl.
Check out the pilot in the second picture.

Dragon21 arrival at Fairford 19Mar ? FighterControl ? Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=94920)

[Haraka]

It's pretty much a space suit.
Just think how much atmosphere is still around at 70k plus ft (allegedly)

[hoodie]

Forget how high they go - how many's in the crew?

http://airwingmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/u2-pilots-pressure-suits-670x250.jpg

;)

[Davef68]

Quite high..

1PmYItnlY5M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M

Pressure suits and helmets have always been part of the U2 driver's couture

[Kluseau]

USAF article on the U2 flight suits here:
http://www.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123310891

[Willard Whyte]

At over 70,000 (sustained) atmospheric pressure is 1/20 standard.

[thing]

Here's a thing that interested me. Apologies if you already know this. David Clark, maker of fine headsets, G suits and pressure suits for airmen and astronauts etc started off as a brassiere manufacturer. During WWII their expertise in woven elasticated garments led them to being asked by the US gov to develop a G suit for fighter jocks, which they did. The rest as they say, is history.

[500N]

The U2 video of James May I found quite interesting.

Like the footage from the edge of the earth.

[tartare]

The thing I find fascinating about the U2 is how close to coffin corner it cruises.
Just a big jet powered glider really, flying in the thinnest of air, right on the stall for hours on end.
Filmed an ER2 taking off from Christchurch Airport once to do atmospheric sniffing for NOA over Antarctica.
We were in a Squirrel with the doors off, hovering halfway down the runway off to one side.
I'd heard the jet had a very steep climb out rate and said the the chopper pilot, "you'll need to pull full collective mate just to keep him in shot."
The jet rolled, lifted, the Squirrel pilot hauled his left hand to the roof, and in about 3 seconds the ER2 just shot right upwards past us, heading for the clouds.
We didn't stand a chance.

[Surplus]

Service ceiling quoted as 85,000'.

[Halton Brat]

The guy third from the left is my cousin.

HB

[ShyTorque]

I'd heard the jet had a very steep climb out rate and said the the chopper pilot, "you'll need to pull full collective mate just to keep him in shot."
The jet rolled, lifted, the Squirrel pilot hauled his left hand to the roof, and in about 3 seconds the ER2 just shot right upwards past us, heading for the clouds.
We didn't stand a chance.


I once tried to chase one in my Jet Provost after it appeared out of a flat topped cloud bank a couple of miles away. Not for long, the "constant thrust variable noise" machine I was flying could go nowhere it; it appeared to climb at a 45 degree angle. Very impressive!

[Haraka]

One also comfortably outclimbed a couple of "light" 41 Sqn RAF Phantoms.

[thing]

One also comfortably outclimbed a couple of "light" 41 Sqn RAF Phantoms.

I think above 25,000' most things could couldn't they? Apart fom a Tonka...

[ancientaviator62]

During GW1 we were trundling along near Cairo in our C130K when one of a pair checked in at FL 570. The Egyptian controller came back with 'no known traffic at your level ' I should think not. Always awesome to watch them take off in Thailand during the Vietnam War. Landing was an 'interesting' experience I understand. On our way to Akrotiri we had to divert to Larnaca as the 'resident' had blacked the runway in a crosswind landing.

[Spanish Waltzer]

Check out the pilot in the second picture.

....all we know is he's called the Stig :mad:

[kaitakbowler]

My wife tells me they (280SU) used to "loose" the bird @ 70k ft.

She also heard Brian Trubshaw "requesting Flt level 600 and Mach 2" from Nicosia Control, which was promptly granted.

PM

[KPax]

Remember a couple of F3's coming off the range south of Akr when the 'Local' came back on frequency, they asked if they could Embellish him, yes was the reply. Request level passing, FL 600 in the descent, ah we will wait came the reply. They used to turn the transponder off passing 600 which then indicated NMC.

[Lightning Mate]

One has to be correctly attired if going high.....


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/Lightning_29105/pressure_zpsff162533.jpg

[Boudreaux Bob]

The F-15 Streak Eagle was no slouch either.

98,425 Feet in Three Minutes and Twenty Seven Seconds for an average climb rate of 28,419 Feet Per Minute then coasted to 103,000 feet.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2283

[Brian Abraham]

it appeared to climb at a 45 degree angle. Very impressive!The U-2 flight manual has a recommendation that a climb made on instruments below 40,000 feet should be made at the normal climb schedule of 160 KIAS, but with no more than 90% RPM, due to the difficulty in accurately interpreting the attitude indicator at higher power settings.

[Busta]

Just in case someone hasn't seen this already

U-2 Dragon Lady: Landings - YouTube (http://youtu.be/eamnTyfkUBY)

nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all

[Double Hydco]

Had one come to Chivenor for a few circuits in 1988. Requested an unrestricted climb out of the pattern up to 40K+ for the transit back to Alconbury......

[gr4techie]

The thing I find fascinating about the U2 is how close to coffin corner it cruises.
Just a big jet powered glider really, flying in the thinnest of air, right on the stall for hours on end.


I read the margin between VNE and stall speed was only 10 knots. But had a glide ratio of 23:1.

[tartare]

Lightning Mate,
that doesn't appear to be a full pressure suit you are wearing - just the helmet?
What altitude was that kit rated to - I assume a dash up to FL65?
But then how come you don't need a full pressure suit-that's right on the Armstrong limit.
I assume you've zoomed up there, might be at that height long enough to take a shot then descend?
I've read the stories about Lightnings bouncing U2s on the way down by the way... :E

[eastern wiseguy]

assume a dash up to FL65?

Pah...I've been higher in that in a Cherokee.....and in a t shirt.

[Hydromet]

The guy third from the left is my cousin.Thought I recognised him.;)

[tartare]

Wiseguy - there's a Chuck Norris joke in there somewhere...

[Wensleydale]

"Pah...I've been higher in that in a Cherokee.....and in a t shirt."


Caused by the top of descent fix?

[strake]

Here's a thing that interested me. Apologies if you already know this. David Clark, maker of fine headsets, G suits and pressure suits for airmen and astronauts etc started off as a brassiere manufacturer. During WWII their expertise in woven elasticated garments led them to being asked by the US gov to develop a G suit for fighter jocks, which they did. The rest as they say, is history.
Actually, that is interesting. I'd always thought it was the name of a chap with a unit in Essex somewhere punting out a few headsets a year to eager PPL's :)

[Stitchbitch]

LMs picture shows a gent in a Baxter-Taylor Woodhouse helmet and a partial pressure jerkin, which I'm told is good for 65K :ok:

[HTB]

Tartare

The garment is the partial pressure jerkin that some Vulcan operations required (e.g. above FL500 for sustained periods carrying out atmospheric sampling); I would guess that for this pilot the PPJ/G-pants combo would be sufficient to cover short high altitude ops. SB - 65K rings a bell, but not a realistic option for the V (580ish is the max I experienced, but it probably depends on the airframe).

Mister B

[lightningmate]

The 'official' Lightning operating altitude limit was 56,000ft and the Partial Pressure Assembly was cleared to that altitude. The basic assembly comprised:

Helmet and oro-nasal mask
Partial Pressure Jerkin
Internal anti-G trousers

Obviously, a Breathing Gas Regulator with the necessary Positive Pressure Breathing delivery performance (70mmHg) was also required.

The Taylor Helmet was never issued to all. One of its functions was to reduce neck distension during positive pressure breathing, which can be quite visually dramatic. However, the Helmet had a 'soft' construction at the rear, so precious little head protection from a head-box impact during ejection. Eventually, it gently 'faded away' since a correctly fitted and adjusted, standard helmet and P/Q oro-nasal mask was adequate for the rapid decompression pressure breathing requirement.

The efficacy of the Partial Pressure Assembly above 56K ft falls away quite quickly, plus the issue of ebullism (body fluids 'boiling') becomes a major factor. Hence, a Full Pressure Assembly is sensibly required for acceptable decompression protection once routine operations at altitudes greater than 60K ft are intended.

The confidence most Lightning pilots placed in the aircraft pressurisation system as they punched up to altitudes above 60K ft - without even a Partial Pressure Assembly - was well founded as I cannot recall any failures. However, had there been a rapid decompression at those altitudes, unconsciousness could have occurred in seconds and the effect of 70mmHg of positive pressure breathing on lungs lacking any counter-pressure would not have been beneficial!

lm

[Al R]

lm,

Fascinating. What was the highest ejection from a Lightning? Presumably if the jet failed, you would want to stay with it for as long as possible until you got into a kinder environment?

I remember being on Bacon Grill Hill when Charlie Chan ejected at Akrotiri.. rather more low level.

[Boudreaux Bob]

During WWII their expertise in woven elasticated garments led them to being asked by the US gov to develop a G suit for fighter jocks, which they did. The rest as they say, is history.

One might say Clark's kept abreast of things then!:E

[lightningmate]

Al R,

Regret I cannot answer that one with any degree of accuracy. I certainly cannot recall any ejections within the highest altitudes and, statistically, I am sure the vast majority of all ejections occur at low altitudes.

Moreover, the time spent at the higher altitudes by Lightnings would be a very small number against the overall time that was clocked up by the fleet during its flying life. Hence, the risk of a high altitude ejection would be low. Unfortunately http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/ has not yet indexed Lightning ejections, so a quick check is not possible. An educated guess only, none above 50K ft and very few above 40K ft.

As you say, given the choice, sensible aircrew would stay with their aircraft hoping to achieve optimum ejection parameters before opting for a kick up the backside.

lm

[thing]

One might say Clark's kept abreast of things then! Funny how a bra can be worn as a comedy headset as well...:).

The highest RAF ejection was 56K in a Canberra. The highest (and fastest) ejection was at an incredible M3.25 and 80K in an SR71 variant. The pilot survived, his WSO didn't.

John Roome certainly got a Lighning up to 88K in SE Asia once.

[Boudreaux Bob]

Thing,

As I recall the SR-71 was not an exit by an Ejection Seat but was an ejection of the Seats and Occupants following the aircraft going unstable following an engine failure and breaking up.

At least one event like that occurred although there were other "normal" Ejections where the Crew survived.

The WSO suffered a broken Neck during the break-up.

The Pilot was picked up by a Rancher flying a Bell 47 which he reckoned was the scariest part of the Day.

[FL575]

Thinking about the original post.

Nav and me were coming back from the West Country, passing through the Oxford - Cambridge corridor at FL200. We were with London Mil who asked us if we could help a TR1 pilot who was suffering from a partial oxygen failure, felt unwell, and had asked for shepherding assistance back to Alconbury.

We asked for a steer to go and pick him up. London Mil replied 'In your 10 o'clock, range 15, and descending through FL660'. We said we would do our best!

We eventually picked him up at FL450, and took him back.

[Willard Whyte]

As I recall the SR-71 was not an exit by an Ejection Seat but was an ejection of the Seats and Occupants following the aircraft going unstable following an engine failure and breaking up.

M3.0+ inlet unstart?

Only a couple of years until the 50th anniversary of that accident.

Mach 3.2, 100K' altitude, Russian titanium, first flew (in A-12 guise) in '62. Remarkable aeroplane.

http://www.barthworks.com/aviation/sr71breakup.htm

[Brian Abraham]

The highest (and fastest) ejection was at an incredible M3.25 and 80K in an SR71 variantWas not an ejection in the normal sense of the word. The aircraft was on a test flight to establish minimum cruise drag possibilities, and on this particular flight had an extreme rear centre of gravity. Too extreme as it turned out, the rear limit was then set somewhat further forward. The pilot was unable to control the pitch up when he had an unstart. Both crew were rendered unconscious from the pitch up G forces and the aircraft disintegrated. When regaining consciousness the pilot found himself in free fall. No actual ejection took place.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

A similar event occurred with an M/D-21 during a test flight over the (California) Channel Islands in 1966.


The D-21 lifted off but crashed back into the M-21 mothership at M3+ causing both aircraft to lose control and disintegrate. Both pilot and LCO survived the impact, only for the LCO to drown.


M/D-21 was cancelled after, and D-21 was converted to GTD-21 for B-52 launches.


Clip here: SR-71 Blackbird Midair Crash - YouTube

[Reader123]

916 Starfighter (http://www.916-starfighter.de/SR-71_Waever.htm)

SR71 story...

[thing]

A similar event occurred with an M/D-21 during a test flight over the (California) Channel Islands in 1966.



That's the one I was referring to.

[Timesgoneby]

In 67 we thought they were UFO's....Turning at right angles x mach 2...but at max range how could we guess they were turning and coming down from +70...

[Wageslave]

Had one come to Chivenor for a few circuits in 1988. Requested an unrestricted climb out of the pattern up to 40K+ for the transit back to Alconbury......

Well, most of us can only avoid the London TMA by LNAV rather than VNAV

What an utter genius Kelly Johnson was!

Here's his book - rates Top Shelf.

Kelly. More Than My Share Of It All. by - - do you have to ask? He ain't shy! ISBN 0-87474-564-0
A fabulous and totally un self-concious (and utterly deserved) FIGJAM autobiography beautifully and humourously written. Aerospace books like this are few and far between as befits real-life Giants like Kelly Johnson.

Also Skunk Works on the same subject and a little more subjectively by Ben Rich. ISBN 978-0-7515-1503-9

[Timesgoneby]

Blackbird ? 85000 ft. As the man says...'we'll wait and get him on the way back...

[PersonFromPorlock]

it appeared to climb at a 45 degree angle. Very impressive!

I remember seeing them launch out of U-Tapao; they seemed to pitch up at 45 degrees and then disappear vertically over the end of the runway. As you say, very impressive!

And loud, too.