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Contacttower
30th Mar 2014, 13:39
I was looking through various ads for biz jet jobs recently and it seems that pretty much all advertised positions require type ratings on the relevant aircraft.

Now I know that a lot of biz jet jobs are word of mouth but when moving up the size of aircraft who normally pays for the rating? If one is flying say a Citation 500 how easy is it to move up to something larger, does it normally involve buying a rating to move on?

GlobalExpressDriver
30th Mar 2014, 14:46
Hope your owner buys a bigger one or get lucky.

Few self sponsored TR on biz jets; too expensive.

Contacttower
30th Mar 2014, 16:26
OK I was just curious how it works in the biz jet world - airlines seem to typically get a candidate for whom it is their first airline job to self sponsor the appropriate type rating, not normally any way to get it paid for or bonded.

A lot of airlines have 'non-type rated' recruitment for experienced pilots moving onto a different type but I never seem to see reference to this in the biz jet world.

Perhaps it is just because there are still so many experienced guys sloshing around post the recession that there simply is not demand for non-typed people?

Moonwalker
30th Mar 2014, 18:01
I joined a biz jet operator with a 3 year bond so it's possible but I had experience from before.

Pilot Positive
30th Mar 2014, 18:04
Contacttower, Its a case of supply and demand and depends on the nature of the operator. At the moment most operators want type rated pilots because, as you say, there are plenty of experienced, type rated pilots sloshing around.

However, a few operators with enthusiastic expansion plans will bond those without the relevant type rating - especially if that operator is putting in a purchase order for newly certified aircraft where experienced type rated candidates are few and far between.

Pilot Positive
30th Mar 2014, 18:09
Just seen Moonwalker's post - it was posted whilst i was typing and reinforces the point. :ok:


Moonwalker: May i speculate? You're bonded on a new Bombardier product perhaps?! :cool:

Kelly Hopper
30th Mar 2014, 19:22
Supply and demand of course, and as always, however...
I see a state now that I have not seen before. Previously there was always a way in for experienced guys without ratings. Now it is damn near impossible to get a position if you are more than 3 months out of the aircraft! With recurrent training costs running into multiples that of airliner ratings it is leaving very experienced pilots high and dry very quickly if they are unfortunate enough to find themselves out of work.
The cost of training burden is shifting in an ugly way and I am seeing more and more pilots being left with recurrent training costs that sometimes run into truly scary figures. Having so many Netjets guys on the lookout has killed the market for the forseeable future for those without the relevant rating, current within a few days, and the best part of 12 months left before renewal.

lifeafteraviation
30th Mar 2014, 23:18
Let me guess....this was the ad?

"exotic new bizjet driver needed...located middle of nowhere, must be one hour from airport, must be current with 1000 hours PIC in type, must be available on call 24/7 and 365"

Most of the time, bizjet operators don't need to advertise to find pilots so the ads they place are always for the hopeful perfect candidate...one that costs them nothing to hire.

I find it amusing sometimes seeing these ads knowing there is no one who will meet those qualifications but there will be a few who come close. Operators usually still need to run new hires through the same training mill regardless of experience anyway so they're really only saving money on the insurance bill. Previous time in type ensures you aren't likely a dud who can't pass the training they pay for.

It's true that the supply of willing candidates is drying up as the airlines suck up the excess of pilots with the promise of one third the pay but not having to toss the boss's bag into the rear hold. Fractional pilots will likely stay where they are now as hiring picks up and new jets are coming. Charter and private flights are increasing lately so the prospects are good.

The best bet is to be persistent and just try to meet some of the pilots and the guy in charge of hiring at the local operators to get your foot in the door. One day your timing will be just right and they'll hire you and send you to school to fly something for a modest salary. From there you will meet more people from that side of the business and find more opportunities even if you can't move up in your own company.

Networking is key, it's rare to get hired by just mailing out resumes.

One of the things with bizjets is when a company buys a new jet it typically comes with 4 or 5 training slots paid for by the manufacturer. So the operator will almost always send their own best guys to get typed at no cost to themselves...it's good for morale and makes him look like the hero to his employees.

On the flip side when an operator buys a used jet it often comes with the crew (the previous owner may work it into the deal) which means less opportunity for advancement.

Klimax
31st Mar 2014, 01:25
On the prospect of my first biz jet job, I financed my own type rating, and got a foot inside this part of the industry. With about 100+H on type, I was lucky enough to have a contact that pointed me towards a big operator in need of a pilot with experience on type. Joined this operator and got upgraded, via 2Y bond, onto a large cabin biz jet. I did have prior experience from a variety of other kind of operations.

Hope this shed's some light on how it could be done. Good luck.

B200Drvr
31st Mar 2014, 04:39
"On call 24/7 365"

Dream on Mr Aeroplane owner, and what the hell is an "exotic biz-jet" ?

Spunky Monkey
31st Mar 2014, 10:10
errr it was a joke...:ugh:

Moonwalker
31st Mar 2014, 12:48
Pilot Positive: Haha I know who you mean but no Im not a Bombardier driver.

deefer dog
2nd Apr 2014, 01:34
Moving up the ladder and getting your first jet ride is a hit and miss affair that falls largely down to being in the right place at the right time, and it helps if you know the right bloke!

Whether one should pay for a rating or not is a perennially asked question. My guess is that most would advise you not to do so, and probably for good reason. Unless you have some kind of guaranteed job after having paid for the rating, and have covered the line training (if required as per EASA), I would agree with the argument that it is not a good idea.

There was a time when the CE500 rating would be a good one to get, and if one funded their own training it used to be a realistic proposition that work would come your way. That was pre EASA, and in the meanwhile many of the older Citation models have dropped off the register. Picking a type to self fund, if you wanted to take a punt, is now not so easy...there are more types flying, and it is likely that you will end up with a rating that is not so desirable.

My advise, for what it may be worth, is to invest time rather than funds. Spend as much time as you can meeting and networking. Pop into offices, ask to say hello to as many employers as you can, and keep showing up as often as you can. Most CP's I know will give you credit for trying, and I certainly do when it comes to hiring. I'm sure also that they remember the hurdles they had to overcome when they were looking for their first jet ride, and going out of your way, rather than simply replying to ads, will appeal to them.

If it helps, I probably was one of the most undeserving co pilots in terms of time and experience when my chance came along, but having met the guy soooo many times I'm sure he would have felt guilty if he did not give me a chance. Having got it I made sure NEVER to let him down, or any of the other employers that followed. After being given a chance,that is key to keeping the dream alive!

Good luck.

Phil Brockwell
2nd Apr 2014, 06:52
Deefer,

I may be wrong, but I'm not convinced with the "pop into offices" advice. Most CP's are generally pretty busy guys and having a 250 hr wannabee turn up unanounced when the CP may or may not be lookin to recruit is probably as likely to reduce credit as it is to increase it.

Phil

maxed-out
2nd Apr 2014, 10:53
Mental note to self.

Never darken P B's door for a job.

Phil Brockwell
2nd Apr 2014, 10:56
maxed-out,

I'm not one of those busy CP types - just business development, all lunches and corporate hospitality!

I did think of becoming a pilot, but didn't fancy the operation where they widen your mounth and chop half your brain out!:E

maxed-out
2nd Apr 2014, 11:02
Ah ok. Sorry my bad. Just a little frustration on my part kicking in.

My apologies Phil.

deefer dog
2nd Apr 2014, 20:08
Phil you may be right but all CP's are different in their own way. Personally I always have a few minutes to spare when someone shows initiative because I remember when I was in that boat.

I don't think there is a definitive "right way" of going about job seeking, but I believe there are several wrong ways. Just waiting for adverts to appear and sending out long winded CV's are two examples, but related to the topic buying a rating is a risky proposition.

Being proactive by canvassing and networking is probably the best strategy.

B200Drvr
3rd Apr 2014, 01:29
Err.. I know :ugh::ugh: