IFR into Bankstown from the west.

[Homesick-Angel]

Just a question regarding coming into Bankstown IFR from the west.

The flight will be inbound from Cowra.it looks like they want flights to come in from V599.(Ersa FPL.?)

Any local tips or tricks to not giving everyone the Sh1ts on arrival at YSBK :}

Have been through the area some time ago VFR, but not into YSBK.

Thanks in advance

[ZAZ]

Bindook oak dale rwy 23 works then if you get visual slow down transfer to bk tower make sure you have at is and slot in with circuit traffic. Have vtc out and follow joining instructions. If you can't comply or sight cct traffic tell them.

[Ovation]

For IFR arrival into YSBK from the W, you will usually get a WATLE 5 ARR which is a track WATLE to SY VOR, taking you towards 2RN radio mast, which is the VFR approach point and when you talk to BK TWR.

Your next reporting point is (generally) at the racecourse, and depending on which RWY is in use, you will need to be at 1,000 or 1,500 Ft.

Keep a good lookout between WATLE and 2RN - it gets busy out there, and there will also be inbound traffic from Prospect Reservoir as you get closer.

[muffman]

It's been a few years since I flew into Bankstown. Happy to be corrected if anything's changed.

The only trick to the WATLE 5 STAR is that if your situational awareness isn't great because you're in cloud an unfamiliar, you can end up way too high.

The STAR gives you a route LSALT between WATLE and D20 SY, and then two fixes based on SY DME for the 25nm and 15nm MSAs at Bankstown to allow further descent.

Whilst the D20 SY altitude restriction allows you to be "at or below 6000", you really need to be a lot lower than that. That position approximates the 2RN inbound reporting point. If you hit there at 2500, you can then descend further to 2300 after the fix and if that doesn't get you visual, you're going to need the approach anyway.

I've seen people sail over the D20 position closer to 6000 and they're still in cloud, and too high to lose the height anyway.

The ideal situation for ATC is that you get visual on the STAR and avoid the need to do an approach, which is a pain in Bankstown's busy class D.

[Mail-man]

Is there actually a legal way for a CatB to descend visually at night into BK without either going below LSALT or busting SY CTA?

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Is there actually a legal way for a CatB to descend visually at night into BK without either going below LSALT or busting SY CTA?

No. The leg from 20 SY to BK is 10nm and LSALT 2300', the MSA is 2500'. Unless you can convince someone that descending to 1500' by about 3nm BK (the step) is part of the normal pattern approach then you'll clip.

Only potential option is to get to 20 SY at 2500, stay within the 10NM MSA for a straight in for 11C. Track visually at 2500 to the WI for the 11 RNAV-Z and you've got a straight in approach clear of the Class C.

There is - or at least there was and I assume the STAR, LSALTS and C boundaries haven't changed - the potential to stay above the LSALTS and below the steps all the way in without going to WI. That said, if it's cloudy and you won't get visual then you will get a clearance for the WATLE5 because otherwise the missed spits you straight back into Class C.

UTR

[Mail-man]

It's been a while since i've done anything VFR but would that mean that NVFR into bankstown is an impossibility without a clearance into SY too? If so, why do they suggest downgrading to facilitate arrivals?

[Shrek33]

With regards to arriving at night :

There are a few options, but I would estimate that less than 10% of inbound aircraft use them- the majority turn up at the approach points well below the MSA.

1- shoot an approach.

2- join a long final for RWY 11 and descend on the PAPI (obviously not ideal when BK CTR is operating RWY 29, but traffic depending still a good option to safely descend into the circling area)

3- make a request with SY Approach or SY Centre to maintain MSA until established in the circling area.

Sure, any of these options will sometimes cause a delay and a few extra track miles, and if YSSY is using RWY 07 you will likely get shafted until they change runways or the curfew steps in.

When choosing option 3, the PIC would be well within their rights to say to APP or CEN 'REQUIRE to maintain 2300 until established in the circling area.'.

The sad thing is that I regularly see dual training flights elect for option 4- call TWR at 2RN maintaining 1500ft.

What chance has the student got?

Regards