Is there a pay rise on the cards? (aka The Italian thread)

[skysod]

What say you?

[Wizofoz]

Increment plus small (maybe VERY small!) rise, similar to last year. IF the global economy keeps crawling back, there is a crewing crisis on the horizon, but it's not here yet, and EK will pretend there is no problem until it HAS to throw money at it.

Bonus?

Not ruling it out, but not holding my breath either!!!

[BigGeordie]

The pay rise will be announced just before they need us to go the extra mile for the runway closure. Should be interesting!

[falconeasydriver]

AFRIKAANS nee
ALBANIAN jo
ALSATIAN naï
ARABIC laa
ARMENIAN votch
AZERI xeyir
BASQUE ez
BELARUSIAN Не (nie)
BENGALI na
BOBO aïlle
BOSNIAN ne
BRETON nann
BULGARIAN né
BURMESE ma hoke phu / hmar te
CATALAN no
CHEROKEE tla / hla
CHINESE pù shi
CORSICAN nò
CZECH ne
CROATIAN ne
DANISH nej
DUTCH nee
ENGLISH no
ESPERANTO ne
ESTONIAN ei
FAROESE nei
FINNISH ei
FRENCH non
FRISIAN nee
FRIULAN no
GALICIAN non
GALLO nanni
GEORGIAN ara
GERMAN nein
GREEK ohi
GUARANÍ nahániri
HAITIAN CREOLE non
HAWAIIAN ʻaole
HEBREW lo
HINDI nahin
HUNGARIAN nem
ICELANDIC nei
IGBO mba
INDONESIAN tidak
ITALIAN no
JAPANESE iié
KABYLIAN ala
KHMER thay
KINYARWANDA oya
KOREAN ahneo
KURDISH no / na
LAO bo
LATIN minime (not at all), non (and repetition of the verb)
LATVIAN nē
LIGURIAN no
LINGALA te
LITHUANIAN ne
LOW SAXON nee
LUXEMBOURGEOIS neen
MACEDONIAN не (ne)
MALAGASY tsia
MALAY tidak
MALTESE le
MAORI kaore
MONGOLIAN ugui (Yгvй)
NORMAN nennin / nenn
NORWEGIAN nei
OCCITAN non
OSSETIAN нæй
PAPIAMENTU no
PERSIAN kheyr / na
POLISH nie
PORTUGUESE não
ROMANI na
ROMANIAN nu
RUSSIAN Нет (niet)
SARDINIAN no
SCOTTISH GAELIC ag
SERBIAN ne
SHONA aiwa
SINDHI na
SINHALA nae
SLOVAK nie
SLOVENIAN ne
SOBOTA ne
SONINKE aï
SPANISH no
SWAHILI siyo / hapana
SWEDISH nej
TAGALOG hindi (po)
TAHITIAN aita
TAMAZIGHT lla
TAMIL illaï
TATAR yuk
TELUGU kadhu
THAI ไม่ (maï) / ไม่ใช่ (maï chaï)
TURKISH hayir
UDMURT oevoel (with nouns) / ug (with verbs)
UKRAINIAN Ні (ni)
URDU نهين (nahin)
WALOON ("betchfessîs" spelling) neni
WELSH nage
WEST INDIAN CREOLE awa
WOLOF déedéet
YIDDISH nein
YORUBA rara
ZULU cha

[glofish]

The pay rise will be announced just before they need us to go the extra mile for the runway closure. Should be interesting!

I doubt it. My bet is on a delay of the announcement for any rise/bonus/profit share for some lame and bogus reasons. This to keep the workforce on their toes as to really go the extra mile, not to annoy the dear leaders!

Once everybody is nearly dead from extra efforts and the resurfacing done, they will announce no rise/bonus/profit for some lame and bogus reasons and the dear leaders will have minimised losses and maximised profits.

[Dropp the Pilot]

That is entirely plausible. The fact that it is entirely plausible is an excellent demonstration of the depths we have plumbed.

[Voodoo 3]

What Falcon said. Probably :{

[palm]

3.5% ( so an other 0.5% this year :ugh::ugh: ) and no bonus ( Bonus is history in EK) . Eventually an accommodation allowance increase cause EK can't afford renting places anymore.

THAT'S IT Guys, keep dreaming. :\:\

[The Outlaw]

No Increase in allowance. You will be housed in the labour camp behind the Meydan with 528 other pilots...then many more pilots in a year from now.

Or you can take the allowance, see how long you can survive outside the ghetto and finally resign when you can't make it work anymore.

But Hey....who doesn't enjoy living under a 250,000 volt power line anyway...

Arbeit macht frei....

[Old King Coal]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Camp_ArbeitMachtFrei.JPG

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"

One trusts that 'we' are the good men ?!

[palm]

Meydan, untrue!! Less than 100 villas are ready.

[The Outlaw]

As of 2 weeks ago, 252 units ready right now.

[thehonourablefong]

As somebody mentioned, I reckon up to 5% this year - 3% step and somewhere between 1% and 2% pay rise. Not a bad number in the global scheme of things but not enough to a) keep up with the cost of living in Dubai and b) attract/keep those who are thinking about both coming and leaving.

Some people have mentioned rather larger numbers for this year in work, I think that there may be something on the cards as there does seem to be an issue attracting pilots - still interested to see who'll accept a 330 job when they didn't apply for a 380 DEFO place, as is the latest solve-all problem from above - but I think it'll be next year, or the year after. I doubt they'll do much until they're looking seriously at grounding flights (Clark being cancelled will help...not a word on that on 'prune yet)

A guy I flew with made a lot of sense when he said that paying a bonus to 60k+ staff no longer makes financial sense, targetted pay rises are cheaper for the company and have the same end effect - although of course they will then incur the cost of increased Prov scheme contributions...

As for increases in the allowance, I have heard 'we didn't cut the allowance during the crash so we're making up for that now' from one of our more diminutive leaders!

[120feet]

If they wanted to target pilots the simple solution would be to raise flying pay. Simply double the flying pay. This would move it closer to where it should be, as opposed to a "token" for showing up to work. It would also ease the pain a 7 day off 90 hour month. When was the last time flying pay was increased? (I don't know, so it's not a rhetorical question.)

[donpizmeov]

120ft, you are a moron. Please do not increase flying pay. Just the basic. Flying pay does not add to pension, nor the mythical profit Cher and reduces take home when on leave. It was introduced as part of the cost neutral pay cut we recieved many years ago.

why should we be paid less for leave, ground school, SIM training, reserve etc? That's what flying pay does.

The don

[Wizofoz]

It was introduced as part of the cost neutral pay cut we recieved many years ago.

Not actually true, Don. The "Cost neutral" thing happened before I joined (if that refers to changing the prod pay threshold to 78 from 85, but no longer counting sim and ground duties in the calc.).

The flight pay was introduced after I joined, and was actually coincident with a decent pay-rise, in about '07 when they were really hurting for pilots.

[120feet]

Dear Don,
Thank you for politely allowing me to see the error of my ways it is always refreshing to be belittled. In the future, I will simply await your post and click on the "like" button.

[OnceBitten]

If they wanted to target pilots the simple solution would be to raise flying pay.

Best solution would be keep the pay where it is and drop the productivity base threshold to 75-78 hours. This will increase roster stability and days off, it will also make the package a very competitive one. Then if you want to fly on your days off and chase productivity go for it, i'm sure there will be plenty that will without any real increase in the piloting numbers, just more in our pocket.

But rostering to 92 hours on base pay is unsustainable and will only help to deter future candidates.

[Tight Seat]

You don't fly the 330 do you? Maybe only doing 40 hours a month but with 15 events (at least 50% nights).

[120feet]

I do not work for EK. I said if EK wanted to specifically target pilot pay, increasing flying pay would be the way to achieve this. I did not say this was the best for the pilots. I was inferring this was the easiest way for EK to isolate the pilot group from the other groups. What I also did not mention was what the pilots want, need, or deserve.
120

[airbusgirl66]

Completely agree Tight Seat.

For the fellows on the 330/340 fleet the base productivity threshold should be brought down to half of that of the other fleets, and duty time should be factored in too.

Saw a roster a few months ago of a 330/340 Capt. 12 trips/8 days off/52 hours. It's probably one of the reasons that they quit showing the total duty time for the month awhile back.

They are working their a$$s off, going to crap destinations, flying nights half the time, and missing out on the extra flight pay they would be able to make if they had any ULR's or more layovers/decent flights to choose from. Oh, and of course I shouldn't forget to mention the reserve period doubled for the fleet. (15weeks of reserve in one year's time) That should also be factored in.

[CaptainChipotle]

Without a doubt there is a HUGE pay raise coming…

…for senior management!!!

Keep rowing, minions!

[haveago]

330 Roster… Week reserve. 10 days leave then 56 hours in 12 days and no lay-overs! Its a joke. Us 330 boys and gals consistently get 8 days off and do nothing but turns!! Mostly nights!

[BigGeordie]

Plenty of people will be prepared to join onto the 330/340 with the carrot of a 380 position a few years down the line.

If you live that long.

[Tight Seat]

But the reason they would be 'chosen' for the 330 is that they ain't up to the 380 ( or they would be offered it at interview).

Edit- ain't up to = not suitably qualified candidate

[Rather Be Skiing]

But the reason they would be 'chosen' for the 330 is that they ain't up to the 380 ( or they would be offered it at interview).

That's a wind up right?

[Tight Seat]

Do you think the airline want to train guys onto the 330 , an aircraft that only has a few years left in service when the real shortfall of pilots is on the 380? I really don't think that the movement from 330/340 to 380 is anything to do with career advancement ( or am I just a little cynical ?).

I'm not suggesting that the airline should be run for the individuals career aspirations, but I do question joining on the pretext that ' you'll be on the 380 soon my son' when the intervening years are filled with truly horrible rosters, 3 times 35 days reserve a year, only 3 remaining layovers (330) and a bidding system that delivers a top bid month that made my 777 mate spit his beer out. Meanwhile the fellow who interviewed with you who had a few more hours or heavier jet time has a jolly nice time ( relatively ) flying the super machine.

Again not a moan just my view of the the 330 fo lifestyle at the moment. Timing is everything in EK and to that end no one , not even fleet, seems to know what time it is.

[helen-damnation]

Agreed.

We are/will be recruiting onto the 330 fleet to release guys/girls to the 380 because we can't get sufficient numbers of DE FOs.

It's your gamble as to how long the 330/340 fleet remains and if you can hack the rosters.

Back to the thread, "they" could always do a 20% pay rise for the "heritage" fleet :E:E

[fliion]

Pops..we feel you bro.

I know CC who got in on 5th try.

Hang in there.

f.

[Wizofoz]

camel tickets

I imagine this is what Pops spell corrector came up with when he tried to write "Camel Jockey".

But no, he's not a racist.....

[what_goes_up]

Beside your Master is still sitting on a pile of debts that he will have to repay for many many years..
:ugh::ugh: Dude, you might want to check the facts before spouting... Compare Italy and UAE on this... List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt)

[what_goes_up]

If we were to compare Dubai with Palermo, it would look even worse for you... Good you have the working north to keep you out of trouble...

[what_goes_up]

Dubai... a country ? Ah ah ah ah!! Comparing that tiny, sandy ,hot **** hole ran by lazy crooks with the home of 65 million people, 8th world economy, center of a two thousand year old culture, center of the biggest Empire in man history that spread modern civilization in all of Europe the East and North Africa with their paved roads, that gave birth to Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo Galilei and innumerable artists and scientists, home of the first ever University , center of Christianity, center of excellence for craftsmanship, technology, car making, fashion, lifestyle, visited by millions from all over the world and where human and worker rights are granted, is proof that you just deserve what you get.:ugh: so please just enjoy..

You forgot to mention Berlusconi, Mafia, Ndragheta, inability to keep itself upright, home and birthplace of corruption and many more. Man, your star has sunk with the decline of the Roman Empire. What is left over is laughable junkyard of Europe.

But back to topic now....

[Wizofoz]

center of the biggest Empire in man history

You mean Mongolia??

Genghis Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan)

[scandistralian]

Sicilian Poo Poo was in my selection group, I remember him well, failed the last day, my guess it was the psych part. Poor bloke, obviously a few cylinders short of a Ferrari.

Back on the topic of a pay rise, in order to match the significant increases in cost of living in Dubai, anything that we do get really needs to be comprehensive, and involve a review of Basic/Flight/Utilities/Schooling etc. A simple 2.5% increase on basic is effectively a pay cut.

As has been stated earlier, if you don't like what they provide with the pay review, EK are very happy for you to leave for greener pastures, and opportunities are now aplenty.

Expats need to seek whatever package provides the best combination of lifestyle vs. income, if EK no longer provides this for you, then why stay?

[Al Murdoch]

From the World corruption index:
UAE: 26th out of 177 (1st position being the least corrupt).
Italy: 69th out of 177

[nolimitholdem]

Oh c'mon seriously this is getting silly. Cars, women, wine, food, fashion, music, you name it, who wouldn't take an Italian ANYTHING over the UAE. There's nothing to be won because there is no competition. Exceedingly narrow self-interests are not facts.

There will also be no raise. After inflation there will be a decrease.

Next question?

[scandistralian]

If that helps you cope Poo Poo then so be it, now run along and let the Adults continue an educated discussion. :ok:

[Al Murdoch]

who wouldn't take an Italian ANYTHING over the UAE

You've never worked there have you....?

[nolimitholdem]

Excellent rebuttal. *cough* I don't work in either country, but I'll quite happily stand by my statement. You feel free to keep your Emirati women, wine (??), cars (??), music, food, the whole lot. Enjoy.

I'll stick with the Italian selections, thanks. I think they even make some of their food with pork.

Arguing about which country is more or less corrupt is like picking the prostitute with the least diseases. Not exactly arguing from a position of strength. I'll take a guy who prefers his women a tad young to a leader who drives over a Pakistani rice merchant with his Landcruiser after beating him with a plank and rubbing salt in his wounds. To each his own, I suppose.

Like I said - a silly comparison that flatters the UAE by even mentioning it in the same sentence.

If you prefer to work in the UAE over Italy, fine. But one country has actually contributed some great things to the world. The other, feeds off of it. Perhaps hard to remember sometimes, when one earns their living from a parasite.

No raise for any of you. You heard it here first.

Ciao!

[Old King Coal]

nolimitholdem: with you all the way bro' !

Nobody in their right mind (imho) would willingly work & live in the sandpit (aside from them being a slut for the money and / or in it to grab what they can from it, and then foxtrot oscar) and perhaps by proof of that, consider the following scenario, e.g. were it possible to still be employed by your Middle East airline of choice, albeit that one had the choice to be located either within the UAE, or else wise at a location of your choosing (complete with all the local rules / regulations / taxes /protections / unions / etc, at that non-UAE location), how many here would honestly say that they would wilfully pick the UAE option?

Wrt much in the (newly-developed) Middle East, most of the numerous examples of local flim-flamery are designed merely as a blingy distraction for the dull-whitted & bedazzled amongst us, and that most of their supposedly 'great cities' are nought more than overly expensive soulless cultural wastelands, wherein everything (literally, everything) is 'imported' and / or a poor reproduction of the ('overseas') original, often being no more real than hard-board and / or glass-fibre can make it, i.e. when produced by imported & indentured labourers (e.g. just tap a seemingly 'marble' column in any of the malls to see what I mean... and I've tried :ugh:, but the columns always ring hollow!)

[White Knight]

Nobody in their right mind (imho) would willingly work & live in the sandpit (aside from them being a slut for the money and / or in it to grab what they can from it, and then foxtrot oscar) and perhaps by proof of that, consider the following scenario, e.g. were it possible to still be employed by your Middle East airline of choice, albeit that one had the choice to be located either within the UAE, or else wise at a location of your choosing (complete with all the local rules / regulations / taxes /protections / unions / etc, at that non-UAE location), how many here would honestly say that they would wilfully pick the UAE option?



I have done. And would do so again; so keep your narrow minded shallow thinking where it belongs! Stuck at FZ doing 73 turns? - ok, I can see your problem... But for me and my family life is excellent and I don't need some silly old sod telling me how to decide on my career! Nor am I here for 'money', 'wealth', 'blah blah'. I have a comfortable lifestyle that suits me and mine.
Local rules/ regulations/ taxes/ protections/ unions/ etc! Well, being a Brit I feel like I was SCREWED over by my government/ union/ rules/ regulations/ taxes. You get the gist?

Happy landings in Kabul and wherever you go to:hmm::hmm:

[White Knight]

Perhaps hard to remember sometimes, when one earns their living from a parasite.



As you did:rolleyes:

Is it an area in Naples that the Italian army has just moved into? You know - to stop the mafia and gang violence that's claimed over 100 lives in 2014? At least that's what I read in the papers today!!!

Life must be good in a 'broke' country:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Al Murdoch]

Excellent rebuttal. *cough*
Touched a nerve there did I? The only point I'm making is that you can quote whatever statistics you like to make a point. The only place the vast majority of us want to be in is our home environment. For me, that's not Italy. I'd still take the Middle East over Italy any day as a place to work. Over my home country? No.
The Italy you are speaking of, the one that contributed a great deal to the world - that was all a long time ago old bean.

[fliion]

Now, now, gents easy on the eyeties...I love their passion ..,

...especially for democracy after Il Duce was shot in '45....what 50 PMs since !

; >

f.

[helen-damnation]

Russel Peters talking about his ex-wife:

"She's like a Ferrari without an engine. Looks beautiful, doesn't f'ing go"

[flareflyer]

Bloody Italians.........
:ugh::ugh: