View Full Version : Light aircraft crash in New Zealand
redsnail
24th Mar 2014, 22:55
Lost a former NetJets colleague in this accident.
He was hoping to start a new life in NZ. :(
RIP Chris.
BBC News - Briton dies in NZ light plane crash (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26710902)
TOUCH-AND-GO
24th Mar 2014, 23:06
My deepest and sincere condolences redsnail :( May he R.I.P
mattyj
1st Apr 2014, 04:12
I originally did my CPL around the turn of the century, and low flying then. There was some turns..following rivers..coastal reversals and constant radius turns..all done at about 400' with plenty of margin, some flap and no more than steep turning.
Later, when I was doing some SAR for the coastguard, I had an annual check with a senior instructor from the same school. The low flying portion modelled on the schools program involved max rate turns with flap..slow flight..and all the rest at heights around 100'.
I consider this unnecessarily risky and the school has had at least 2 aircraft losses (without fatality) in low flying areas in recent years.
I wonder why the syllabus has become so hairy, and since these poor guys came to grief in a low flying zone, whether this new standard may have left no time for recovery?
Aerozepplin
1st Apr 2014, 05:06
Very sad indeed, and sadly a different outcome to another serious Thomas accident a few weeks earlier.
While it may be unrelated I agree with mattj's opinion. One of the best things I've learnt from Pprune is the term "practicing bleeding". I know of at least one instructor and student of recent times who were lucky to survive a poorly flown max rate in a LFZ. Again though, not implying it's related to FTP's accident.
WTF, Max rate turns at 100'.
That's stupidity. There's no need for that sort of thing.
I haven't read the Part 61 low flying syllabus requirements recently but I doubt there's anything in there that requires this. If there is, I know one instructor that's not going to do it.
I bet the topdressing guys who operate at low level, day in day out, don't even do max rate turns at such a low level.
ForkTailedDrKiller
1st Apr 2014, 09:29
Been a few years (30+ yrs ?) since I did my NZCPL, but I seem to recall lots of low flying including steep turns at 100', but not max. rate turns.
Highly experienced instructor - can't say I ever felt uncomfortable.
Dr :8
Steep turns, Yes, but not max rate.
Aerozepplin
1st Apr 2014, 22:48
The flight test syllabus specifies no more than 45 degrees AOB for both CPL and PPL. Height is not specified, but the places I’ve flown or worked have had a club/school limit or recommended height of around 200-300ft.
"I bet the topdressing guys who operate at low level, day in day out, don't even do max rate turns at such a low level"
Maybe not at exactly 100' but the whole industry is pretty much based on saving seconds, including in turns, in heavy aircraft at low level. Many turns are at the max rate - at which they can get away it. The difference is that such manoeuvres are trained for and it become a specialist technique. This is a reason why there is a need for an agricultural pilot rating.
I have reservations that the average flight instructor would really be up to the task of instructing max rate turns at 100'. I'm not trying to bash instructors. It's just a specialist thing and with limited returns compared to the risk.
VH-XXX
2nd Apr 2014, 04:19
WTF, Max rate turns at 100'.
That's stupidity. There's no need for that sort of thing.
The aircraft doesn't know how high it is... :ouch:
I bet the topdressing guys who operate at low level, day in day out, don't even do max rate turns at such a low level"
Maybe not at exactly 100' but the whole industry is pretty much based on saving seconds, including in turns, in heavy aircraft at low level. Many turns are at the max rate - at which they can get away it.
Most of these turns in the Ag world are low "G" wing over style manoeuvres so not really max rate turns in the sense we are talking about here.