Manston Airport : Possible Closure

[CoffmanStarter]

Manston Airport owner holds consultation over possible closure

BBC News : Manston (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-26646985)

Kent On-Line : Manston (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet_extra/news/manston-airport-closure-plans-14416/)

Very sad to hear ... but I guess inevitable given the number of failed attempts to operate a commercial airport out of North Kent following the RAF leaving in the 90's. Unsubstantiated rumours currently circulating suggest that the site could go for housing development if the airport closes :{

West Malling all over again :(

My thoughts are with Mark Girdler (Ted's Son - ex RAFAT) and TG Aviation ...

PS. Wander00 ... No more feeding the OM fruit-machine when on Diversion :uhoh:

[P6 Driver]

Sad news indeed for anyone with current or former Manston connections. Unfortunately, if it does close I feel this has been on the cards for many, many years as successive operators have attempted to make it viable but failed.

For me, Manston has always had more potential as a cargo field rather than with passenger ops. In the early 90's, while it was still RAF Manston, a civil operator tried to combine two poor passenger catchment areas by flying from Gatwick to Norwich and then RAF Manston for pick-ups before delivering the passengers to Cyprus. The following week, the jet reversed the route, dropping off at RAF Manston and Norwich before flying empty back to Gatwick. This lasted only one season (B737).

While in RAF hands, you would have to go back quite some time to see any operator using the Civil Enclave (commonly known then as Kent International Airport) who would have generated enough traffic to sustain the airfield had the RAF not owned and maintained it.

Since the RAF departed, no major operator has been sufficiently tempted to use Manston for anything truly meaningful over any extended period of time, so I think it's unlikely to happen now although it would be something I would be very happy to see. The fate of TG Aviation is quite rightly a worry as are the jobs that would be lost (about 150). The two museums are also on airport land and could also be at risk.

Hoping for a good outcome.

[onyxcrowle]

I remember coming back from Athens on A Britania y
737 Back in September 1990 or 91 Enroute to Luton.
The flight was having technical issues and the pilot infomed us strong headwinds over the alps meant we hadnt enough fuel for Luton.
So we landed at Manston on what I recal was this scruffy weedy runway we wasnt allowed off the plane These two suits came on board starting pulling some electronic boards close to.the cockpit . Then closed the panels n we left.
I dont recal any fuel being drawn. But it felt abandoned. Save for cargo aircraft.
The captain told us it mainly cargo.
So whats happening to KLM is it dropped ?.

[Landroger]

I don't know a lot about Manston, but I always thought it had one of the longest runways in the country? So rightly or wrongly I have long harboured the idea that Manston could very easily be the runway that the London area so desperately needs. If indeed it does.

As a Londoner and a watcher of aeroplanes, any further increase in capacity at Heathrow just appears insanity - very expensive insanity. Not though even in the same class as the astronomically expensive insanity of a Boris Island a la Hong Kong. If, as many claim, we desperately need another high capacity runway/airport somewhere in the south, what's wrong with Manston?

It is but a few miles from the high speed rail link to the tunnel and a branch could surely be constructed? Similarly, it is not that far from the M2 or M20 motorways and spurs could be constructed without resorting to massive bridges or expensive tunnels. With prevailing winds the majority of take offs would be over largely empty farm land and, most importantly, movements would not need to conflict with either LGW, LCY and certainly not LHR.

Yes, an HS Rail branch would be expensive as would M20 and/or M2 spurs, plus smart new terminals, parking and baggage handling, but the costs pale into insignificance compared to Boris Island or Heathrow III. A sort of 'poor man's extra runway'. Passengers could be in central London or LCY in less than an hour, Heathrow in 75 mins, ditto Stanstead and a bit more to Luton. With HSII, travellers could be in Birminham in under two hours and Manchester in two and a half. Everyone else would be on the motorway network on the right side of London - the one that doesn't suffer from the Heathrow snarl up every day.

Anyone else feel the same?

Roger.

[NutLoose]

Sadly it's not the only one, and this could threaten a Vulcan

Wellesbourne Market site could be considered for housing by Stratford District Council - Coventry Telegraph (http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wellesbourne-market-site-could-considered-6845019)

http://www.stratford-herald.com/local-news/7895-wellesbounre.html

[Wander00]

Coff - you are right there about the gaming machine. Be a shame if Manston closed. I am sure Ted was at Valley same time as me.

[air pig]

Flew in Manston the other week, wet windy and dark, says it all really.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Flew my very last RAF sorties in and out of Manston, it being civvy by then (and clearly only used to puddlejumpers).
Fondly remember belling them up for their required '5 mins out' contact.
"Manston, Horseman with 2, 5 minutes out"
"...Horseman, we can't see you on radar, say range & bearing"
"53 miles, 020"
" You're supposed to call at 5 minutes!!"
"We have"
"You're at 53 miles?"
"Now 51 miles..50 miles..49 miles"
"(now squeaky voice)..er..er..2 downwind, 1 at initials"
"Contact all 3. Shall we just call initials?"
"Yes please"

On reporting to the tower, they admitted they didn't usually get arrivals doing M0.98 - they usually got calls at 8 miles. They forgave us when we let them sit in the cockpit.

[thing]

Just to add to the woes on the GA front, Leicester, Panshangar, Bourne, Booker (Wycombe Air park) and Wellesbourne Mountford are all under threat; and guess why...housing development.

Incidentally for those of you who fly proper kit there's a Pprune fly in at Leicester on 19th April. Might be an idea to get there while it still exists. I shall be there along with my flying buddy who has 11,000 hrs shuffling fuel and eating in one of her Maj's secret aeroplanes. We will bore you to death with war stories.

Fox 3: reminds me of the epic call by a 71 to some place in the States.

'Callsign **** request FL700.'

*** centre 'Callsign **** cleared to FL 700, if you can get there'. Har har.

'Callsign ****, descending to FL700.'

*** centre. Silence.

By the way, I'm surprised that they would know what initials were at Manston. Strictly a mob thing apparently.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I don't think they did know what we meant by initials; they were clutching at straws by that point. They might not have agreed if they knew it entailed the kind of run in & break that has tower controllers spilling their coffee down their shirt :E
They collared the other pilot on landing with "Do you do that at home?" to receive the response "Lower usually, I'm the Display Pilot"

p.s. I recall the -71 story was FL600, as IIRC FL660+ is uncontrolled airspace - one knows these things ;)

p.p.s. My first ever flight was with my dad from Panshanger, aged 3, in an Auster. Some boys never grow up!

[thing]

Pal of mine has an Auster. he actually flies it four up. it's interesting watching him take off.

In fact while I remember my Uncle Roy who is 90 was in the Royal Artillery in Italy during the war on Auster spotters. He bought one after the war for £25. He can't remember what happened yesterday but if you say to him 'Tell me about the war' he can talk for about four days non stop. He was attacked once by a couple of Me109s and simply flew in tight circles about 50' above the German front line. The Me's daren't shoot for fear of hiiting the guys on the ground and apparently the Germans on the ground were cheering Roy on....

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I heard a similar one from a chap delivering a Tiger Moth from the factory, when he was bounced by a FW190 somewhere near Birmingham. "I just flew round an oak tree at 20 feet till he went away"

James Doohan (later 'Scotty' in 'Star Trek') flew Austers in the War. There are a few tales there too....

[thing]

James Doohan (later 'Scotty' in 'Star Trek') flew Austers in the War. There are a few tales there too....

Didn't his ashes finish up in space? Or was that Gene Rodenberry?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Both, kind of..

Gene Roddenberry

On April 21, 1997, a Celestis spacecraft — carrying portions of the cremated remains of Roddenberry, of Timothy Leary and of 22 other individuals — was launched into Earth orbit aboard a Pegasus XL rocket from near the Canary Islands.[40] On May 20, 2002, the spacecraft's orbit deteriorated and it disintegrated in the atmosphere. Another flight to launch more of his ashes into deep space along with those of Majel (Barrett) Roddenberry, his widow who died in 2008, is planned for launch in 2014.[41]

James Doohan

His ashes, 1⁄4 ounce (7 grams), were scheduled the following fall for a Memorial Flight to space with 100 others, including Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper.[28][29] Launch on the SpaceLoft XL rocket was delayed to April 28, 2007, when the rocket briefly entered outer space in a four-minute suborbital flight before parachuting to earth, as planned, with the ashes still inside.[30] The ashes were subsequently launched on a Falcon 1 rocket, on August 3, 2008, into what was intended to be a low Earth orbit, however the rocket failed two minutes after launch.[31] The rest of his ashes were scattered over Puget Sound in Washington.[32][33] On May 22, 2012, a small urn containing some of Doohan's remains in ash form was flown into space aboard the Falcon 9 rocket as part of COTS Demo Flight 2.[34]

Both Courtesy of Wikipedia

[thing]

launched into Earth orbit aboard a Pegasus XL rocket from near the Canary Islands.

? Doth Morocco have spacey type abilities?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Depends what they're smoking...

[thing]

Ah, you may be just old enough to remember the Marrakesh Express.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Heard of it, but the only highs I got were all courtesy of Auntie Betty's fast jets - as far as I can tell, all drugs are a pale substitute by comparison.

[diginagain]

From Pegasus (rocket) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_%28rocket%29)

In a Pegasus launch, the carrier aircraft takes off from a runway with support and checkout facilities. Such locations have included Kennedy Space Center / Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida; Vandenberg Air Force Base and Dryden Flight Research Center, California; Wallops Flight Facility, Virginia; Kwajalein Range in the Pacific Ocean, and the Canary Islands in the Atlantic.

[chopper2004]

Ummm, if Wellesford and Wycombe are in the target crosshairs - Heliair ain't going to be happy as they are predominantly one of the main operators (main office) at the former and have another major flying training / charter op at Wycombe.

[Party Animal]

Problem with Manston as the extra London airfield is that you will be able to fly from Inverness to London (Manston) for 39p on EasyJet and then will have to fork out £75 for the single rail ticket to St Pancras!

[P6 Driver]

Classic thread hijack at work here (Manston to Cape Canaveral in less than one page!).

Back on track to update a couple of posts;

LANDROGER - Manston may have had the longest hard runway in the country when it was constructed in 1944 but it has been overtaken a few times now. It had certainly the widest runway at 750 feet, designed to accept three returning and damaged bombers side by side towards the far end and then stack them up. In late 1944, 744 aircraft made emergency landings at RAF Manston - in one month.

There are at least ten UK runways in active use longer than the current 9016ft/2748m of Manston - Heathrow, Gatwick, RAF Brize Norton, Boscombe Down, RAF Fairford, RAF Marham, Stansted, East Midlands, Manchester to name a few.

AIRPIG - You should fly in when it's dry, calm and in daylight! I can't figure out what your point was - surely many airfields could be like that, not just Manston!

Fox3WheresMyBanana - We used to find when we military controllers had charge of the airfield that some civilian pilots didn't understand what we meant by our terminology - it wouldn't surprise me that they might misunderstand "Initials", or be taken by surprise with a little speed!

Anyway, it's good to see that the subject has stirred some memories. Now, if you feel that Manston should have a future, there's an on-line petition you could add to in order to show support if you wish;

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-manston-airport

I have very fond memories of Manston in its later RAF days that could give current military conrtrollers a few headaches, such as operating three simultaneous visual circuits (Rwy 28/10 - 1500ft jets - 1000ft light a/c, Rwy 06/24 - 800ft light a/c and a gliding circuit to the North side). If 202 Sqn were training with their Sea Kings, it was possible to have four visual circuits on the go! Good times.

[diginagain]

Used Manston a few times when transiting to/from BFG. Handy for getting out of a rubber suit, and the nice gentlemen of the Customs were always friendly enough. With the withdrawal from BFG I guess there's not so much trade.

[CoffmanStarter]

Just a bit more colour to add to what P6 has posted above ... for those interested :8

There was a rumour circulating at the time that the Manston runway was listed, although never used, by NASA as an emergency diversionary landing strip for the Space Shuttle programme along with RAF Fairford. Mind you, if true, It would have been interesting to have seen a Space Shuttle do an approach off the North Foreland NDB :}

Manston was never/still isn't blessed with viable communication routes (Road and Rail) off the Isle of Thanet and this has always been IMHO the handicap in terms of promoting it as a credible London satellite airport. The only operation that seemed to eke out a living was Hugh Kennard's Invicta Airways during the 60/70's ... on the back of the RAF maintaining the airfield/runway.

Along with RAF Leeming, RAF Manston was a MDA (Master Diversion Aerodrome) with Foam Carpet laying capability ... a now somewhat outdated mode of emergency recovery.

If Manston is to go ... then what will happen to the Ministry of Defence Fire Services Central Training Establishment (MOD FSCTE) currently based there. Additionally LFA18 will loose a good diversion runway ... certainly the OC of II(AC) Squadron was glad of the Thanet tarmac when suffering a Bird Strike in January this year :uhoh:

And here's a pic from happier times in the late 60's during the filming of a certain film :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ManstonBattle.jpg

Best ...

Coff.

[Roadster280]

As sad as it is to see former RAF stations go, one does have to be pragmatic. Its location served the purpose in the war years, and did so admirably even into the 90s.

As a commercial airport location, it's just not in the right location. The local catchment area is too underpopulated. Bringing folk in from elsewhere needs to be quick and convenient if it is to succeed. Ramsgate is not the center of that particular universe. The investment required to make it more attractive to a wider catchment area is better invested elsewhere.

If it didn't have a future with the RAF, and can't stand on its own in the commercial world, the future is inevitable.

Sad to see the history go, but everything has its price.

[P6 Driver]

ZA398 still resides at Manston following the birdstrike in January.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3714/12702408133_0c9875dcd7_z.jpg

The same airframe was also diverted into Manston in late 2013, again with a birdstrike. It has been reported that it won't fly again due to high hours and the cost of repair. The tail might be transferred to another jet apparently.

I personally have always seen the commercial future of Manston as a cargo airport rather than passengers, but it does appear that it's time has come.

The airport released a statement today saying that flight operations are not viable after 9th April - well within the 45 day "consultation" period. Staff cannot be made redundant until the end of the 45 day period though according to the local TV news tonight.

The BBC have tried to book a KLM scheduled flight in April and say that it's not possible to buy a ticket for anything after 8th April.

[P6 Driver]

With regard to the MOD FSCTE (Fire Training) at Manston, the closure of the airfield should have no impact on them (now re-named as the Defence Fire Training and Development Centre) as the RAF camp is separated from the airfield by a public road and was retained by the MOD when the RAF airfield was sold.

The only thing they wouldn't be able to do is fly any airframe in to Manston for transfer to the RAF side (such as the Nimrod). Tornado ZA398 has been moved closer to the B2050 pubic road and I would hazard a guess that it will be taken over to the RAF camp very soon, off the airfield.

Of concern must be the fate of the two aviation museums on the airfield land. The RAF Manston History Museum has many large exhibits such as complete Jaguar, T-33, Wessex, Whirlwind, Chipmunk and Iskra, as well as cockpits of Tornado, Victor, S360 and Buccaneer. The nearby located Spitfire and Hurricane Memorial houses one of each of those types.

[aluminium persuader]

Did my IMC rating with Ted Girdler at Manston c1989. Very nice chap, as indeed all at TG were. It would be very sad to see it close.

[CoffmanStarter]

By way of an update on events today for those interested ...

The consortium that had been interested in taking over Manston Airport has withdrawn its offer and pulled the plug on the deal.

Staff at the airport were told at a meeting this morning about the development, which represents a significant blow to those hoping the airport could be kept open.

More here ...

Kent On-Line : Manston (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/manston-buyer-withdraws-offer-15199/)

Not looking good :(

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

And it is, of course, the last place that a MR2 landed:

http://timstubbingsphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/NimrodManston-083-400x600(pp_m1385146162_a20_pTR).jpg

Duncs

[airspace alpha]

This probably belongs in "Freight Dogs" but early in 1974 I had a cattle charter from Manston using, I think, an Invicta Britannia. It was a night load and as the truck backed up we pushed the wooden barriers up to the loading ramp. One particularly big bull wanted nothing to do with this and charged our barrier and romped off away into the night.... and as it happened there was a loaded Vulcan parked nearby with an RAFP guard complete with alsation. The poor dog took one look at the charging bull and legged it and we all spent the rest of the night trying to find the damn bull- which ended up in a garden nearby.

[ORAC]

p.s. I recall the -71 story was FL600, as IIRC FL660+ is uncontrolled airspace - one knows these things Fox3,

I am reminded of the time I handed over a Lightning to Midland for recovery shortly before they left service.

The handover call was along the lines of, "Ltg, cs XX, VFR, fuel precautionary recovery, 040, 30nm." The response was on the line of, "OK, stud 5".

The response on the phone wasn't silence when he checked in and the controller found out he was VFR above and descending into the MRSA.....

Little things make some of the best memories.........

[sitigeltfel]

early in 1974 I had a cattle charter from Manston using, I think, an Invicta Britannia.

IIRC they were CL44s, the stretched Britannia with the 'swing' tail?

[fulmar]

Sitigeltfel, nope they did not have cl44s as far as I know- but they were certainly manston-centric and mostly used Vanguards. You might have been thinking of tradewinds or ias or even tmac. or Young cargo from belgium (aka the flight number hijackers)
I dug out my logbooks and found on 9dec 78 (not 74 as I thought) we had a cattle charter manston - Casablanca using Britannia G-AOVF with the above mentioned bull mayhem.
We returned via almeria and thereby hangs a tale. We loaded 18 tonnes of cucumber but on taxi there was a"thud" and we lost all hydraulics. Back on the ramp the FE got out 10 cans of coke and said "drink this I need the cans" whereupon he brazed a pipe from aforesaid cans to make an emergency repair to get us back to Manston. We were tempted to ask for the arrestor barrier on arrival but the captain stalled the Britannia onto the numbers and we rollout without touching the brakes- a superb performance.
And 18 tons of cucumber has a most intense smell

[Skeleton]

I used to live in Herne Bay and worked at Gatwick. Simply put Manston is in the wrong place No one from London is going drive past Gatwick and spend an extra couple of hours travelling to the arse end of Kent. EU Jet were the last to try and maybe a poor choice of aircraft, odd route choices and a less than stella advertising campaign didnt help but they discovered bottom line , the catchment area is simply not big enough.

[CoffmanStarter]

I remember G-AOVF ...

As she was ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/g_aovf_zpsdc870344.jpg

Image Credit : Airlines-Airliners (http://www.airlines-airliners.de)

And now ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/G-AOVF_Britannia_312F_RAF_Museum_Cosford_UK_Painted_in_false_R AF_markings_as_XM497_zps4ca9f3af.jpg

G-AOVF Britannia 312F RAF Museum Cosford, UK Painted in false RAF markings as XM497

Image Credit : Wikipedia

[oldpinger]

I landed a Seaking across the runway once doing a running landing (because we could!) With the late LCDR Colin Douglas RN during a visit to his home town from Culdrose.:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

OldPinger ...

It certainly was/is a W-I-D-E Runway :ok:

http://www.bobleroi.co.uk/ScrapBook/RedSandsRadio_8/IMG2615a.jpg

[Fake Sealion]

Visited Manston for a night stop June 79 as part of a four ship of 705 NAS Gazelles.
We were enroute RAF Wildenrath and enjoyed run ashore in downtown Margate:eek:

[CoffmanStarter]

Fake Sealion ...

You should've gone to Pegwell Bay and met the Hoverlloyd Hostesses ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southeast/series9/images/week_nine/stewardesses203.jpg

Come to think of it ... I believe Hoverlloyd stopped in 1977 ... making your trip two years too late :uhoh:

But it didn't take the ULAS Instructors long, during the 1974 Summer Camp, to reconnoitre :}

[Madbob]

Coff, and as the army are wont to say....."time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted" :ok::ok::ok:


Pity we don't have the capability we once had......and I'm not talking about MRA/Nimrod!!

MB

[HTB]

I was Manston's CAA Aerodrome Inspector from 2001 to 2010, so saw much of the development. I watched attentively as the airport grew from a bare bones former RAF Station, expanding into...well not much really. Various change of owners, a couple of not so low cost operators and the fluctuating freight traffic. But as has been observed, not enough people in the area (also imagine how vibrant and active Lydd would be just down the road) and poor rail and road links to anywhere. Even dualling the A299 did not help much (I assume it's been completed all the way to Ramsgate now).

Basically, there was not enough dosh around to develop/expand the airport, or in the pockets of potential passengers.

There were some interesting challemges on those developments that did take place, such as the Bravo Apron and Bravo taxiway link (to runway). Due diligence and planning revealed the the airfield had been seeded with "pipe bombs" during WWII to be detonated in the event it was overrun by the invading Hun in order to deny use of the field. Plans showed the location of 21 such bombs, the condition of which was assessed as highly unstable as the original explosive material had decayed/transmuted into a far more voaltile liquid form. Anyway, the offending articles were removed by gentlemen of the Royal Corps of Engineers prior to proper development digging commencing. Only snag was when the RE located bomb number 22...and no way of knowing if there were even more (original plans probably made up in a rush and not updated). Tough decision. The bullet was bit and they went ahead anyway, presumabnly with fingers stuck in ears:\. I made sure I was far too busy elsewhere in England while this was going on.

Mister B

[andyl999]

Perhaps our London Mayor should dump his plans for an estuary airport and take on Manston?


Seriously though I just cannot see any civil airport making a commercial success that far East. The transport links are woeful and there is insufficient travel superstructure in place and population.


Mind you I don't know why Heathrow succeeds with such a lack of Westward train links, so what do I know?


Wasn't Manson the airport where FIDO was developed? I remember once reading about the job of lighting it which I believe was some asbestos skinned ground staff who drove around it holding a burning torch and lighting the jets from a Land Rover...............a job not to have :0)

[CoffmanStarter]

Andy ...

FIDO was installed at Manston (1944, last being used in 1958) but developed at Hartford Bridge Flats.

Manston Installation Schematic

http://www.ramsgatehistory.com/images/fido_rnwy_29.jpg

Image Credit : RAF Manston History Museum

More detail about the Manston installation here ...

Manston FIDO (http://www.ramsgatehistory.com/forum/index.php?topic=81.0)

Apparently towards the end of its life, a full FIDO burn was costing around £44,500 ... :eek:

[andyl999]

It's hard to believe that there is so much documentation.


One think that makes me smile is that how close the sleeping headquarters were to the line, no cold barracks for the operators?

[CoffmanStarter]

My pleasure Andy :ok:

The location of the original tanks/road infrastructure, to the south of the main runway, can still be seen ... but the tanks visible in this Google Earth image are of modern design ... I think they were/are LPG but nothing to do with Jentex Ltd or the airfield anymore.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/imagejpg1_zps8b431d5d.jpg

Image Credit : Google Earth 2014

[CoffmanStarter]

For those interested ... The Manston Mirror (produced by the Manston Spitfire Museum) is worth a read :ok:

PDF Back-copies here ...

Manston Mirror | About The Trust | Spitfire and Hurricane Memorial Museum Manston Kent (http://www.spitfiremuseum.org.uk/manstonmirror)

Very sad to note that Squadron Leader Paddy Brown passed away at the beginning of the year (Feb Edition) ... RIP Paddy.

[lightbluefootprint]

Manston was where I flew for the first time with 1 AEF in 1976. I can still remember the Belfasts parked on the opposite side of the airfield, the chicken curry in the Airmen's mess on a Sunday lunchtime and lining up in the kitchen to get a fried egg straight from the pan at breakfast when we did a weekend camp there. The chef's assistant was apparently an ex-POW from during the Battle of Britain who stayed in the UK after the war. Might have been a tall tale but as I remember him, he would have been about the right age then.

Ninety odd glider launches from there as well. I visit what is left whenever I can when visiting Kent, its sad to see it going down the pan, although that said, communication links in north-east Kent are a lot better than they used to be and presumably can only get better.

[Wander00]

Some of the development work for FIDO was carried out in one of the reservoirs near what is now Heathrow, I think Queen Mary. I remember my dad telling me he was one of the firemen sent there as safety fire cover

[Reverserbucket]

Fairly sure BA diverted an A320 into Manston one morning last week when there was a bit of fog around LHR. Remember landing there in my youth in a puddle jumper and losing depth perception in the roundout due to the width of the threshold and surrounding hard surface.....of course, I went around from that one :}.

[Wizzard]

Mid 80's I was at Middle Wallop as a QHI on Advanced Rotary Squadron. Just approaching Christmas we were due to take our students to Germany as a famil towards the end of the course.

Just before departure from MW our boss gave us a "Gypsy's Warning" that if were caught bringing back any duty-free over the limit we be severely dealt with etc.

We all duly screwed the nut so we approached Manston with a clean conscience and on arrival sure enough the Customs guys were waiting by VASS in their L a n d r o v e r. As out engines ran down to silence one of the Customs guys wound down his window, shouted "Merry Christmas" and they buggered off!

Oh how we laughed...

[NutLoose]

We tried to beat the Americans to Manston Customs as they had several UH1's and a few AH1's.... Sadly they got there first (Wessex lol) so we expected a long wait... Out comes about 10 Customs and the top neddy informs us he has a class of trainees and can they blitz the Wessex.... Gulp. Crewman has an extra bottle in his kit bag and is shaking like a Jelly.... Sprog Customs chap pulls out two bottles from his bag asks who's are these? Crewman says nervously mine... Sprog Customs says thanks, and pops them back in bag without realising he had two. :E

[mmitch]

I have seen several times over the years, a practice engine failure after take off by a flying school aircraft. The instructor clears it with the tower first of course. After the aircraft has landed there is still plenty of room to take off again.
mmitch.

[CoffmanStarter]

By way of an update for those interested in the old place ...

An offer has been made to buy Manston Airport and keep it as a working air hub. The move was revealed by North Thanet MP Sir Roger Gale who made the announcement yesterday (4th May 2014).


"It's reputable and it's an American company, and I believe it has the resources necessary to buy, and not only to buy, but to run the airport because that's important as well."

More here ...

Kent-on-Line : Manston Formal Offer Made (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/formal-offer-made-for-manston-16762/)

Express & Star : Manston Formal Offer (http://www.expressandstar.com/business/city-news/2014/05/05/manston-airport-offer-realistic/)

But there still needs to be a willing seller it would seem ...

Coff.

[HTB]

Coff

I hate to say this, but I've seen it all before - change of ownership, that is. The prospective new owner may have a load of money to throw at developing the site, but the harsh reality is that the road/rail transport infrastructure is not good. And the pool of potential passengers still remains low (even with the occasional fly/cruise ship packages). The freight option also seems to have dwindled - and it was a slick operation in its heyday; any potential major increase in freight traffic will be subject to the poor road links to the west (even though they are somewhat improved in the last 5-10 years).

So wish them luck, but due diligence on the part of the purchaser may reveal an unpalatable cost/benefit outcome.

Mister B

[CoffmanStarter]

I sadly agree with you Mister B :(

PS ... And the latest "offer" has now been rejected ...

The Courier : Manston Offer Rejected (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/business/news/manston-airport-offer-rejected-1.352734)

[Evalu8ter]

I had a happy 6 months holding at Manston waiting for an OCU Cse in the late 90s. There were only 10-12 livers in, so often we'd have a "whole mess dinner" in the middle of the week where there were almost as many staff as members! I can remember playing cricket and asking the bowler to wait as an An124 taxied behind him.....the pitch was effectively on the airfield.

It's probably the only station I've been at where the locals were desperate for the unit to expand and get busier; I think they were dismayed when 202 left. Sadly I feel the shareholders see a West Malling future as already mentioned....

[brakedwell]

I spent some time flying live stock out of Manston in 1975/6 with G-AOVF or G-AOVS when they were owned by IAS - happy memories of staying in the Pegwell Bay Hotel!

We are off to Malpensa (Milan) in VS - yet again. Photo taken by a tame customs man Mar 1976.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Britannia312GAOVF_zps8ea26c7b.jpg

[NutLoose]

Sad to say the last nail has been banged into the coffin..

15th of May is the final date

BBC News - Kent's Manston Airport to close on 15 May (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-27294532)

[CoffmanStarter]

There was a large protest yesterday evening at Manston against the closure plans. It was covered by the local ITV News which included an interview with Mark Girdler MD T G Aviation (Ted's Son).

Video clip here ...

ITV News Manston Closure (http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/topic/manston-airport/)

Apparently the US firm, RiverOak Investments, is still interested in purchasing the airport as a going concern ... but the cynic in me says that in the medium term they might have the same commercial objectives as Gloag

[NutLoose]

The trouble is with announcing closing it, your business clients then shift elsewhere and an airport without traffic is on a downward spiral to nowhere.

I still think improve the infrastructure and put in a direct rail link with Boris's planned London airport scheme funding and rebrand it London airport is the way to go.

The Americans offered to more or less meet her spend on the place but I think the current owners are hoping for big bucks as a housing estate.

[brakedwell]

The is Grate Brittin innit, so it will end up as a bloody great housing estate with no new jobs and a creaking infrastructure. New runways at LHR and LGW will plaster over the cracks and (almost) everyone will be happy.

[CoffmanStarter]

Bang on the nail Nutty ...

Gloag got the airport for a nominal £1 when she originally purchased it. Almost certainly the Local and County Authorities will turn-down a planning application for residential housing. But I suspect under appeal Central Government will approve planning given their stated intension of increasing the housing stock in the Southeast.

It's just commercial poker ...

And what's to say that RiverOak won't have the same commercial objectives in the medium term as Gloag.

[dazdaz1]

Ann Gload OBE. Non executive director, Stagecoach board. Sure knows how to make a few ££ or two. Bought the airport for a £1 please correct me if I'm wrong.

She has learned the money game very well from her brother Sir Brian Souter, Chairman of Stagecoach.

[NutLoose]

Yep you cannot read it any other way, and I can understand there distress at the announcement and the MP's comments, it in effect wipes out a main asset, customers. One does wonder if that was the plan all along... Or am I being cynical.

Details of the bidder here:


THE American firm behind the rejected Manston airport offer has been named as RiverOak Investment Corp LLC of Stamford Connecticut.

A statement released by the group says it offered airport owner Ann Gloag a price “significantly higher than the entire capital investment expended by the current owner since Manston was purchased in November of last year.”

It is understood Mrs Gloag has invested some £1.5 million with another £2.5 million in reserve. The offer is understood to have been above £4 million.

In a statement a RiverOak spokesman said: “ RiverOak currently has $350 million of assets under management with a number of operating partners and has a successful track record of turning around troubled operating and real estate assets.

“In this particular project, RiverOak is the capital partner of a number of aviation operating entities specialising in aircraft maintenance and cargo operations, and principal partners at RiverOak have extensive US experience with the capital markets and debt restructuring of a number of major airport assets, one of which is a singular maintenance and cargo hub in Texas.

“RiverOak has developed a long term plan to own and manage Manston as an airport in line with its investment philosophy of diversified investing in asset backed businesses. RiverOak remains committed to investing in and developing Manston as a successful diversified aviation services, cargo and potential future passenger airport facility, and values Manston as an important piece of aviation infrastructure that is very important to both Kent specifically and the United Kingdom in general.

“RiverOak is distressed to learn of the announced closure of Manston today and remains willing to engage with all parties to achieve a solution which allows the airport to continue operating and preserves the jobs of its staff.”

The firm is backed by MP Sir Roger Gale who says he is convinced it is a viable offer. He said the decision to close the site when the money and plan is there to buy Manston as an operating airport amounted to “corporate vandalism.”

But, he said, he remains hopeful that Mrs Gloag will reconsider the bid.





From

Manston airport buyer group revealed | Thanet Gazette (http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Manston-airport-buyer-group-revealed/story-21063574-detail/story.html#ixzz30y7TaBVH)

[Heathrow Harry]

all they are offering is her money back - she can see millions being made out of houses, business park, distribution centre

No wonder she won't sell

[dazdaz1]

Or possibly........... Fracking

[Heathrow Harry]

given the location probably a wind farm...............

[CoffmanStarter]

Harry ... already been done just off the North Kent coast by Vattenfall ...

http://i.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/17/1300386012633/Thanet-wind-farm-2392010-005.jpg?width=620&height=-&quality=95

[Heathrow Harry]

a lot easier to stick them all over an (ex-) airfield.............

[CoffmanStarter]

Manston closed at 17:00 Hrs Local today ... a very sad day :(

For those interested ... I understand TG Aviation will be operating out of Pent Farm Airfield ... which is located just north of Folkestone Kent.

Pent Farm Airfield (http://ukga.com/airfield/pent-farm)

Good luck Mark and Sue Girdler ...

UPDATE 17/5/14

I understand TG has now moved their fleet to Lydd ...

Unfortunately Pent Farm isn't suitable for training/PPL flights we are now moving the aircraft to Lydd and will operate there as of tomorrow

[Wander00]

Knew Ted years ago - best of luck to them

[NutLoose]

I just hope any future planning decisions that do not involve aviation are thrown out.

A sad day for aviation.

[NutLoose]

Plans for 1,000 homes at Manston airport discussed | Canterbury Times (http://www.canterburytimes.co.uk/Plans-1-000-homes-Manston-airport-discussed/story-21083143-detail/story.html)


Those ones were being planned even before the closure date

[CoffmanStarter]

Well the "bonkers silly season" has come early this year :mad:

Following a High Court decision today, Lydd airport has been given the green light to add an additional 984 feet to the existing 4,938 feet of runway ... and progress investment of £25m on a new Terminal and airport infrastructure.

Just 24 Hrs after Manston closed with it's 9,106 feet of runway :ugh:

And in terms or remoteness and lack off communication infrastructure ... Lydd is more remote ... ask any Romney Marsh Sheep or have a squint at a Topo :ugh:

BBC News : Lydd Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-27439540)

Lydd Airport : London Ashford Airport (http://www.lydd-airport.co.uk)

London Ashford Airport ... who are they trying to kid :rolleyes:

Rant over ...

[pr00ne]

Coffmann Starter,

At least Lydd, has services, is in use, and is expanding, more than can be said for Manston.

Not quite sure WHY this is a sad day for aviation, there is no aviation need for Manston, that's the problem...

[NutLoose]

PrOOne, Manston had as well until this happened

http://www.manstonairport.com/userfiles/files/news-items/20140325-Press-release-KLM.pdf

There are a lot of aviation based companies now having to relocate.

[CoffmanStarter]

Pr00ne ...

The "sad" bit is purely personal (evidently shared by a few others on here) to see yet another RAF WWII airfield succumb to a developers JCB ... as was the case with West Malling. However I'm not commercially naive. Having seen over many years a number of false hopes for both Manston and Lydd ... the question in my mind is why this time will be any different at Lydd. The fact remains that without significant investment in infrastructure (fast rail) linking either Manston or Lydd to London neither site had/has any real hope as a Hub Airport of any significance IMHO.

[NutLoose]

My sadness is also in the madness of it all, why build a new airfield for London on the estuary which is full of the one thing you don't want.... Birds. When you have a viable airport close by that simply needs a high speed link building to it... The country seems to be obsessed with demolish and build new, it's just madness, like closing schools that don't perform and building new ones.... WTF would they do if the new one didn't perform either.... We just throw money the country hasn't got at the problem without fixing the cause...

[CoffmanStarter]

Well said Nutty :ok:

[aw ditor]

Perhaps that nice Scottish gent'. will buy it for £1, as he did Prestwick?

[CoffmanStarter]

Mind you ... the last time Lydd was a little bit "exciting" was way back in Silver City days with their Bristol Freighters ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Bristol_Superfreighters_at_Lydd_Airport%2C_1960_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1279861.jpg

One just drove the old jalopy on to the Bristol and tootled off to Le Touquet for a spot of lunch ... how civilised :ok:

[Heathrow Harry]

TBH, if wasn't for the water, it would have been a lot faster to DRIVE to Le Touquet

A few years back I saw a Bristol Frightener pass over White Waltham one evening and it was..... leisurely.......... if not staid......

[P6 Driver]

I add myself to the list of those sad to see Manston close, both from a sentimental point of view as one who has worked there and from a detatched angle as it hasn't been developed into a viable and sustainable business over the sixteen years or so since the RAF sold it to civil ownership.

My hope is that the current owners are serious in their willingness to sell it as an airfield and that we don't hear of half a dozen diggers arriving early one morning to start breaking up the hard surfaces and therefore make it unusable to anyone apart from land developers.

[Heathrow Harry]

they're probably there today - or maybe over next Bank Holiday Weekend

There is no credible business case to keep Manston as an airfield for any owner - the returns are negative or zero

[Dysonsphere]

Have they painted the dreaded white X's yet.

[CoffmanStarter]

Latest developments ...


MONDAY, 19 MAY 2014

Manston - Time for Compulsory Purchase
North Thanet`s MP, Sir Roger Gale, is supporting calls for the compulsory purchase, by Thanet District Council, of Manston Airport.

Speaking following a weekend of discussions with local and national political leaders Sir Roger has said:

“Laura Sandys and I are of the view, which I have reason to understand is shared by the new Labour Leadership of Thanet District Council and by the Conservative Opposition, that with the closure of the airfield the best way to secure a new future for aviation at Manston will be for a Compulsory Purchase Order to be placed upon the site which has, at present, planning consent only as an airport. This is detailed in the very recent draft of the local plan so there should be little difficulty in establishing existing use and thus for the local authority to acquire and then perhaps lease out or sell on the site at a sensible price.

Clearly the Council will wish to prepare its own study of options based upon legal advice but the opinion that we have been offered is that a bid to place a CPO on the airfield would succeed and that it could be readily funded. If that is so then it ought to be possible to remove the airport from the hands of those who clearly have other objectives and to restore Manston to its rightful place as part of our airport capacity in the South East.

From the work that has already been done we have good reason to believe that those who wish to re-open the airport and have the capacity to do so have every chance of succeeding where others have seemingly chosen to fail and we hope and expect that TDC`s senior officers, acting on instructions from elected Members, will take a very robust line.

We have to dispel the impression given, arising from discussions that apparently took place with TDC officers earlier in the year, that housing is a “done deal” and that anything other than airport use is on the agenda. As Iris Johnston has made publicly clear, it is not”.

[Heathrow Harry]

"and that it could be readily funded"

who by??

I'd imagine the Courts would roast any application for a CPO in this case

[HTB]

It's not my part of the country, but my previous involvement with Manston was as the CAA's aerodrome (safety regulation) inspector (along with about 30 other aerodromes in the southern part of England).

The MP and TDC do not seem to have a real grasp of the costs involved in running a viable airport, nor of the relatively meagre income a low-cost operator would generate for them; and the terminal is hardly a shoppers' paradise - won't sell many socks or ties there (even if the low-cost passengers were to materialise, they are notoriously stingy in aiport retail outlets).

Maybe they should splash out on an unbiased aviation consultant first. Someone who could spell out the costs involved with providing an ATS, along with operation and maintenance of the associated comms and navigation equipment. Then the operations staff for ensuring provision of a safe operating environment, inspecting and clearing operating surfaces, keeping the wildlife at bay; properly trained apron staff (and if there is a low cost airline, the ground handlers as well, as these will generally be skimped by the LCA operator). Did I mention provision of rescue and firefighting services (dictated by the aircraft size)? A regulatory requirement that is costly but inescapable (a major firefighting vehicle with the appropriate amount of extinguishing media, and a host of other specifications, costs about £300,000 - they will need at least two for 737 sizr aircraft ops).

The costs soon mount up, and it is never really viable to try and provide the services on a part time basis. I expect the TDC studies will show that operating Manston as an aiport (with what airline and source of passengers I know not) will be a huge drain on financial resources.

Sorry to sound like a Jeremiah, but that's just the realities of the commercial airport/airline business today.

Mister B

[Skeleton]

The wind farm idea is actually not that far off the mark. If the present owners think builders are going to be falling over themselves to build houses at Mantson they are fooling no one. That end of Kent is a council estate.

[HTB]

Noticed this in today's Daily Bellylaugh:


Manston Airport in Kent, which closed earlier this month, could become agarden city, its owner has said.

Ann Gloag, co-founder of the Stagecoach Group, bought the airport forjust £1 in October last year, but shut it on May 15 with the loss of 140 jobs,despite reportedly receiving a £5 million offer from a US firm.

The decision to reject the offer angered unions, but Ms Gloag told theTimes that talks were ongoing to secure the future of the site, with theconstruction of a garden city – including provision for thousands of homes – apossibility.

The proposal could incorporate other schemes in Thanet – one of the southern England’s least affluent regions – such as Discovery Park Kent, a business park in Sandwich.

Manston lost its final scheduled passenger flight – a KLM service to Amsterdam – in April, and had been running at a loss of £10,000 a day prior toits closure.

The site had been used by aircraft since the First World War, and RAF Manston was heavily bombed during the Battle of Britain. Barnes Wallis used thebase to test his bouncing bomb, used during the Dambusters raid.

In 1989 it was renamed Kent International Airport, and in the years that followed Dan-Air, Yugoslavian carrier Aviogenex, Aspro Holidays, Irish airline EUjet, Monarch, BMI and Flybe were among the firms to operate there.

Two museums, the RAF Manston History Museum and the Spitfire and Hurricane memorial, are located on the site, which also appeared as a North Korean airbase in the 2001 Bond film Die Another Day. It was also one of a handful of UK airports with a runway large enough to accommodate Concorde, as well as the A380 "superjumbo".

Just what Kent needs - a new garden city between the jewel of the East that is Ramsgate and historical Canterbury. I guess all those migrants, asylum seekers, fruit pickers, et al, need somewhere to live.

I thought that the two museums were outside the aerodrome boundary and independent of the aerodrome operations.

Mister B

[P6 Driver]

The two museums stand on land that was leased from the airport owners at the time it was sold by the RAF. I've not heard how secure they are currently.

[CoffmanStarter]

Garden City indeed :yuk:

[Valiantone]

Well if they turn it into a garden city, can someone give the Luftwaffe a call and get them to come back and finish what they started in 1940.....

V1:ugh:

[chevvron]

Maybe someone should take a look at Newquay (St Mawgan) to try and find how they operate compared to how Manston was operated; could be some lessons to be learnt.

[HTB]

Chevvy

Newquay was also one of the aerodroems for which I had development and inspection oversight as a CAA aerodrome inspector.

The simple (and somewhat sanitised answer - commercial sensitivity) is that the owner, Cornwall county Council, received a large wedge of EU regional Objective One development dosh, and subsequently heavily funded (in equal measure I think) by CCC. I still have about 500 e-mails on the topic, plus a load of documents relating to construction, rehabilitation, etc.

Also, there were a few more people wanting to fly to the southwest (and it now serves Plymouth to some extent since closure of Plymouth City Airport - Roborough as was). And it doesn't actually make very much money, despite the local entry/departure "tax" levied on passengers (used to be £5, don't know if they still do it, or how much).

Mister B

[CoffmanStarter]

Latest update ...

A HIGH Court bid to serve an injunction on Manston airport's owner has been adjourned until next Friday.

Light aircraft operators TG Aviation, which was based at Manston for more than 30 years until its closure last month forced the business to move to Lydd Airport, have taken legal action in a bid to be able to continue using the runway.

Owner Mark Girdler, son of founder and former Red Arrow Ted Girdler, and his wife Sue are hoping to force the halt of any current action at the airport and gain the right to return and use the runway.

If the injunction is granted it is believed the Civil Aviation Authority will grant permission for TG Aviation’s discretionary use of the runway.

More here ...

T G Aviation High Court injunction bid against Manston airport owner | Thanet Gazette (http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/T-G-Aviation-High-Court-injunction-bid-Manston/story-21255241-detail/story.html)

Good luck Mark and Sue ...

[CoffmanStarter]

Latest update for those interested ...

A mass auction of equipment used at Manston airport is to take place later this month.

The site’s owners Kent Facilities Limited – owned by Stagecoach founder Ann Gloag – are putting dozens of items under the hammer following the closure of the airport in May.

Lots include boarding steps, an aircraft de-icer, mobile baggage conveyors, Land Rovers and specialist fire engines.

Manston Ground Equipment Sale (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/manston-equipment-to-be-sold-19525/)

Meanwhile TG Aviation await their return to the High Court on 9th July 2014 following an earlier adjournment (see above).

[CoffmanStarter]

Sad news ... :(

TG Aviation has lost its High Court battle with Manston airport owners over use of the site’s runway.

The verdict was delivered this afternoon and means the flight school will not return to the airfield it had been based at for more than 30 years prior to closure.

If the injunction had been successful, TG Aviation would have been awarded full use of the runway, operating out of Manston as an unlicensed airfield.

More here ...

TG Aviation lose High Court battle to return to Manston airport | Thanet Gazette (http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/TG-Aviation-lose-High-Court-battle-return-Manston/story-21440621-detail/story.html)

[CoffmanStarter]

The Campaigners are still fighting ...

The fight to reopen a Kent airport has been taken to Downing Street where a petition signed by more than 26,000 people was handed in by campaigners.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76419000/jpg/_76419144_manston.jpg

Image Credit : BBC News (L2 Sue Girdler)

More here ...

BBC News - Manston Airport campaigners take petition to Downing St (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-28407426)

[CoffmanStarter]

For those Members interested ... the saga continues :bored:

A US businessman who had three bids to buy Manston Airport turned down has said he can secure £20m to reopen it.

Stephen de Nardo, of US investment firm RiverOak, said the focus on passenger services in the past had been wrong and cargo was now the way forward.

BBC News - Manston Airport bidder says cargo is the way forward (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-29241641)

Coff.

[NutLoose]

I still say use the monies that was going to have been blown on Boris's airport to develop it and put in a high speed road and rail link, at least its got a runway and is on land already without the need to build an island to put it on.

[CoffmanStarter]

Latest update ...

Manston airport has been sold to the firm behind the Discovery Park at Richborough it has just been announced - apparently ending hopes that it will reopen as an airport.

Trevor Cartner and Chris Musgrave have bought a majority interest in the 800-acre site from owner Ann Gloag.

The partnership has experience of large-scale regeneration projects and is part of the Discovery Park consortium at the former Pfizer facility in Sandwich.

The new owners envisage a £1 billion redevelopment of the 800-acre site, over a 20-years into a mixed-use scheme which they claim will help to create more than 4,000 jobs.

More here ...

Manston Airport Sold (http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/BREAKING-NEWS-Manston-airport-SOLD/story-22966666-detail/story.html)

Coff.

[Madbob]

Coff Thanks for posting. How sad, the end of another famous former RAF station. I remember it vaguely as only an occasional fleeting visitor and for the fact that I left my no. 2 SD hat in the OM gents' WC and for it never to be seen again!

Still my the time some toe-rag gave it a new home it was pretty well worn-out. Made by Messrs. Allkit I recall but replaced on promotion to Flt Lt by one from Messrs. Bates.:ok: So no great loss in the overall scheme of things......

MB

[Wander00]

Bet the fruit machine has gone too...................

[The Helpful Stacker]

Sad to see the runway may not see aircraft again.

Many happy memories of visiting such a historic airfield. Sitting on the grass besides the 1 AEF building on balmy summer days, waiting for my trip in what, if you squinted really hard, looked like a Spitfire.

I always loved it if an instructor asked "can you see the runway?" If you couldn't see that huge, fat ribbon of tarmac on a summer's day from just about anywhere you'd be flying you really should have brought your guide dog with you!

[Al R]

Could the surface ever support FJ again, would there be scope to use it as a hub for a QRA FOB or satellite? Or is Northolt now 'it' (Olympics cover)?

[CoffmanStarter]

Al ... Anything is possible, but Manston is consigned to history sadly :(

[Al R]

Coff,

For sure, commercially right now. But if the real estate is still there I was wondering if it was feasible (in terms of infrastructure, manning, service and support, ops management etc).. or is Northolt just as good.

[CoffmanStarter]

Al ...

Certainly it had/has a superior length of runway (+9k feet) to Northolt, but I suspect significant investment would be required to resurface and service/reinstall the RAG alone for FJ ops. I believe the Search Radar is an antiquity and the Bulk Fuel Tanks would probably require money spent on them. I'd love to see the old place back in mil hands ... but the chances of that happening are slim to nothing :(

[mmitch]

Certainly F16s and RAF FJ operated out of there for airshows right up to closure. Freight and flight training aircraft up to 747 and A380 also used it.
It was to be the site of the new civil SAR base, but there has been no sign of
it and if the developers build 4000 houses on it I think they will need to look elsewhere....
mmitch.

[Out Of Trim]

I thought the plan was for an Industrial Park, rather than housing. Maybe I'm wrong.

I still think the Local Council could have maintained it's status as a Heritage Airfield and not allowed a change of use. Which then may have made prospective owners look to maintain it's use for an aviation purpose.

Rather than making a quick buck for any old property development!

Perhaps in addition, NATO could have funded it's use as a FOB in the same way as Stornoway; for exercise and/or operational use if needed.

[CoffmanStarter]

Latest development ...

BRISTOW Helicopters is reportedly speaking to officials at Lydd Airport about moving its search and rescue operation there following the closure of Manston airport.

Bristow were due to use Manston airport as a base for its south east search and rescue services, provided on behalf of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, from July 1 this year.

However, after the airport’s closure in May 2014, the firm has decided to consider alternative locations from which to operate.

http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Bristow Helicopters SAR (http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Bristow-Helicopters-search-rescue-service-Lydd/story-26052975-detail/story.html)

Another nail in the coffin :(

[GeeRam]

Looks like Kemble might be the next one to succumb to the developers according to news reports this evening :rolleyes:

[mmitch]

Bristow have confirmed they are going to Lydd.
BBC News - Manston loses search and rescue service (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-31542599)
mmitch.

[P6 Driver]

Would it be possible to have a link to the fact that Lydd will be used please?

All I can find in the BBC link is that the Leader of TDC understands that Lydd will be used and frankly, I'd like to see that in writing from Bristow rather than rely on her opinion.

I'm not saying that her opinion won't be proved correct, but on the Bristow SAR search I've done today, the name "Lydd" doesn't pull any information up.

[Jerry Atrick]

Not sure why Lydd would be chosen as it's not that far from Lee-on-Solent. I would have thought the excellent facility at Wattisham would have been very attractive to Bristow?

[mmitch]

Not a full article here but the local MP has been quoted on local radio
that Bristow are planning to move to Lydd.
Politics (http://www.localrags.co.uk/index.php/view/Main/Politics/)
mmitch.

[Bigpants]

Ah RAF Manston c 1995 at the end of my 16 years, flying Chipmunks on the AEF with Pete Stonham and Ted Girdler, a couple of talented gents now sadly gone.

Memories aside, what would happen if Mr Putin bought the place for "cargo flights" and suddenly little green men started disembarking in the dead of night?

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning BP :ok:

These threads might interest you ...

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/375999-raf-manston-history-no-1-aef-1967-1995-a-3.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/412255-raf-chipmunks.html

In answer to your question ... The smell of 'cabbages' should be a sufficient deterrent :}

[mmitch]

Thanet has gone 'hi tec' now Coff. To the west of Manston is this place.
Thanet Earth (http://www.thanetearth.com/our-crops.html)
Definitely not a place for supersonic flight...
The cabbages (and cauliflowers) are still grown outside though!
mmitch.

[CoffmanStarter]

A further update ... couldn't have anything to do with a certain up and coming General Election and a certain Mr Farage standing as the South Thanet candidate :rolleyes:

A minister today told representatives of investment firm RiverOak the government "would leave no stone unturned" in order to help find a way to "rescue" Manston airport.

At a meeting of the Transport Select Committee, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport, Robert Goodwill MP, said prime minister David Cameron took a "keen interest" in the future of the airport.

He said the Government would work with the Civil Aviation Authority to ensure Manston had a licence to operate and was “very optimistic.”


Mr Goodwill told Stephen DeNardo, chief executive officer of RiverOak that the Government "are keen to leave no stone unturned to facilitate any rescue that could take place”.

RiverOak has put its faith in Thanet council making a Compulsory Purchase Order for the airport. The company plans to run the airport as a freight hub, with some aircraft recycling at the site.

Mr DeNardo said: “As the minister acknowledged, freight traffic is growing and there is a very good case to have a point to point freight hub at Manston. We have identified the perishables market as being a successful way to operate and grow Manston.

“We thank the Department for Transport for its support and urge it to conclude its review of our business case as soon as possible to help ensure we have the best possible chance to reopen Manston Airport as quickly as we can.”

Government pledges help to see Manston reopened at meeting of Transport Select Committee (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/government-pledges-help-to-see-32328/)

[P6 Driver]

Fingers still crossed for Manston re-opening. I don't know if "care & maintenance" programme has been operated to keep the paved surfaces in good order since it last operated aircraft, but if not, when it does open again it could be quite expensive to re-commission. Equally, I don't know if equipment was stripped out from ATC or Fire Section premises.

[NutLoose]

In the comments


I attended The Aviation Select Committee today as chairman of TSMA. Your report on the Aviation Ministers remarks today are not actually what I heard, I believe Mr Goodwills comment was: "IF an Aviation Solution can be found then he (the minister) would support this initiative in negotiating a fast track re-licensing with the CAA". However when asked directly if he would be proactive in seeking an Aviation solution for Manston his responses were evasive at best. There is still much work to do, however the future does look promising.

[Martin the Martian]

It's downright frightening the way airfields seem to be closing across the UK. Filton, Woodford and Manston gone, Kemble looking like it's going the same way and Wellesbourne Mountford and now Hucknall. To say nothing of Coltishall, Leuchars and Lyneham.

At this rate we'll have the military at Brize Norton and everyone else at Heathrow.

[HTB]

MtM

Manston's been off the MoD slop chit for some years now. In its most recent incarnation it was KIA (not 'killed in action', but Kent International Airport). During the time that I was the CAA aerodrome inspector for this place, it was obvious that it was never going to be a major player in either the passenger or freight market - for one thing, onward lines of communication were somewhat limiting. For potential passengers particularly, why would you pass several other major airports (with the 'London' appellation) to a very limited destination operation in North Kent?

Romantic or nostalgic as it might seem to keep the airport open, the reality is that it costs big bucks to operate and maintain such a facility, hence the previous three owners pulling put (and the reluctance of airline operators to use the place)...they just weren't making any profit.

P6D

There is/was no reason for a C&M programme once the latest owner pulled out - their intention was to maximise the investment (or at least not make a stonking great loss), not to hope for a resurgence in air travel inKent; again these things cost money. And without such a programme I can envisage the creep of vegetation from the tarmac/concrete areas adjacent to the runway onto, into and under the paved operating surfaces. As for the other assets, they would be saleable and have probably been disposed of (major fire engine, new, would cost in the order of £300,000). Don't know what the market for navaids is, but I'm sure that there is one.

As far as 're-licensing' goes, the rules are undergoing change; the CAA would have to issue an EASA certificate, using the criteria in the recently issued EASA ADR Rules (March 2014 - ED decision 2014/13/R). There is a caveat that could exempt KIA from the requirement for an EASA Certificate based on the number of passenger or freight movements, i.e. below the stipulated threshold, no EASA Certificate required, but still might need to conform to a less stringent set of national CAA criteria. But I'm sure that the Transport Select Committee is fully up to speed on all this (or they could get themselves briefed up by the CAA).

In any event, I don't envisage the Govt throwing a vast amount of public money at reopening KIA (aka Manston), when private ventures have been seen to fail, or not be adequate to make a profit.

Just filling in the gaps to paint the big picture.

Mister B

[P6 Driver]

HTB,

Thanks for providing some detail. Some of us live in hope more than expectation!
:)

[SWBKCB]

We have identified the perishables market as being a successful way to operate and grow Manston.

Hmm - just when the supermarkets are moving in the opposite direction? Interesting that this comment appeared just below the post about Thanet Earth...

[mad_collie]

I was there yesterday having a look at the last GRI that the RAF is still responsible for. The vegetation is coming through the paveways at a great rate of knots & the whole place is falling apart TBH. The 2 frames that were outside the main terminal a couple of months ago had disappeared (presumably cut up). Can't see any future for the place apart from redevelopment.

[Skeleton]

Re-development to what though? Its at the wrong end of Kent and hardly the most salubrious of areas, Ramsgate and Margate make Gravesend look posh! I am surprised it lasted as long as it did. The locals kept banging on about it being London's 4th airport when i was there, but i just don't buy that people are going to drive past Gatwick, Heathrow or Stanstead to travel from Manston and the catchment area it had simply did not provide enough passengers. The freight operators that used it pulled out one after another because the profit was simply not there. Sad to see it go because it provided me with my first job (EU Jet) when i entered civvy street but it was always walking a fine line.

[P6 Driver]

There are diggers working at the South East corner, visible from the main road, next to large piles of rubble. Can't see exactly what is being excavated though.

[P6 Driver]

News from Flight Global on the link below that Manston was to be used, but no more. They are not confirming where the SAR helicopters will be based yet.

Bristow kicks off final push to UK SAR operations - 2/26/2015 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/bristow-kicks-off-final-push-to-uk-sar-operations-409509/)

[mmitch]

Not sure if it is the same site but they have been demolishing an old fire station which apparently in a dangerous condition.


The MP for Folkstone has been quoted on local radio that Bristows are looking to move to Lydd airport.
mmitch.

[CoffmanStarter]

Just found this little gem :ok:

Manston 1955 with SAC F-86's and F-100's. I believe much of the colour footage was filmed on the 'Loop' which became farmland in the 60's. Note the B-36 visitor !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RbMBSZmU7js

[P6 Driver]

An interesting film. Just after the four minute mark, there appear to be hills and woodland in the background, which I can't relate to Manston.

[CoffmanStarter]

P6D ... Yep got me thinking too ;)

[Skeleton]

Agreed looks more like Balmullo Hill at Leuchars if i had to take a guess.

[TBM-Legend]

Manston 1955 with SAC F-86's and F-100's.


Nice footage of lots of types. However the F-100D's place it in the late 50's or so as the F-100D didn't enter squadron service until 1957/58...

[A and C]

With the managment of LHR, LGW & STN all wanting new runways and airport expansion it is clear that traffic volumes are set to increase, when something goes wrong at an airport in the London TMA the disruption is felt over all the south of the UK.

It is my opinion is that the granting of planning permission for expansion for the three major airports should include a duty to keep Manston open for diversion of Emegency traffic, recently the Virgin 747 incident resulted in much disruption at LGW and other airports with the LGW traffic diverting.

Manston is also in a area of low population so aircraft with technical problems or security issues won't have to be (as with LHR ) flown over densely populated areas.

The three major airports would have to subsidise Manston but if they are smart about using the airport for cargo, maintenance and GA they should keep the costs to a minimum and may be even cover the direct costs, the real cost recovery would be when there is a major incident and there is no resultant disruption at the major airports because the problem has gone to Manston.

If such an planning arrangement was arrived at I would also expect the other airports to be able to reduce their tax burden on the costs of maintaining Manston in the national interest.

[ETOPS]

Spotter alert :rolleyes:

Great film Coff - There are three F-84 Thunderstreaks taxying out around 2 minutes in. As a kid that was my favourite of the F-8 series - a proper futuristic design.

[Martin the Martian]

Here's a thought for you. On another forum the subject of airfields closing has also come up, and I sat down with a useful little book published in 2000 (this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/U-K-Airports-Airfields-Spotters-Tim-Laming/dp/1853109789/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1425554187&sr=8-7&keywords=Tim+Laming) to carry out an exercise.

Including those that are at significant risk of closure in the next two or three years, I estimate that in the first twenty years of the 21st century the UK will lose about ten percent of its licensed airfields, both civil and military. It's an average of more than one a year, but the pace has accelerated in the second decade.

Leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

[ShotOne]

Maintaining Manston in the "National interest"? Or as an electoral bribe to a narrow section of the South East of the country which is already well supplied with airports? Even worse if that bribe is to be paid from an enforced levy on airports elsewhere! Manston is a disastrous place to try to get to for 97% of the UK population. The UK desperately needs more airport capacity but Manston is not the answer.

[A and C]

While I agree with you that the UK needs more airport capacity in the north this does not take away the need for one very underused runway in the south, after all the blocking of a runway at Gatwick disrupts air traffic in the whole of the UK as diverted aircraft cause further congestion at other airports.

If you think keeping Manston open is a political bribe I would sugest it is a poor one and the bribe money would be better spent on other projects, as a diversion airport for the major London airports it is good for preventing disruption from Manchester southwards......... The only problem is that people don't see the disruption that has not happened due to this sort of investment so politically it is a poor investment.

The cost of keeping Manston open should be the responsibility of LHR, LGW & STN, after all it is these airports that send most of the disruption oop North when they have a problem.

[1.3VStall]

a diversion airport

Ah yes, I remember the days when the RAF had 12 Master Diversion Aerodromes. These days the RAF would be pushed to name 12 operational airfields, much less those open 24/7. I think it's called progress.......

[xtp]

Government review process grinding into action.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/manston-airport-review

[CoffmanStarter]

The government will appoint a consultant to undertake a review of the process so far on decisions about the future of Manston Airport.

An invitation to tender for this work will be issued tomorrow 6 March.

I wonder who might end up on the Governments 'short list' of credible consultancies ?

[ACW418]

1.3VStall,

Whilst I agree with your underlying sentiment the facts are that when we had 12 Master Divs we needed them a lot more than they are needed now. I am thinking of the number of aircraft flying, the threat and the technology of both the aircraft and ATC kit/Navaids at the time.

ACW

[handleturning]

Guess it will depend on what they look for in the tender. Doesn't look like they did publish one yesterday.

[CoffmanStarter]

Consultant Appointed ...

PwC has been appointed to review the process so far on decisions about the future of Manston Airport, Transport Minister John Hayes announced today (19 March 2015).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/consultant-for-manston-airport-review-announced

An interesting choice and remit ...

[Heathrow Harry]

this is a duplicate of the post in the Airlines, Airports & Routes thread - it doesn't belong here

[CoffmanStarter]

Fair point HH (even though this Thread has been running for over a year on the Mil Forum) ... I'm relaxed if the MOD's what to move/amalgamate it :)

[CoffmanStarter]

This is going to be interesting ...

Manston Airport is to be used as an emergency lorry park when Operation Stack is in place, to help ease traffic in Kent caused by delays in Calais.

I wonder if anyone has bothered to get an OS Map out and understand the difficulties of getting lorries to Manston let alone down to Folkestone/Dover when a 'Stack' call is lifted :ugh:

[P6 Driver]

Content removed

[SWBKCB]

The current owners most definitely don't want to re-open the airfield, they want to re-develop.

There is some opposition, and a rival investor, promoting compulsory purchase of the land and re-instating the airport.

[mmitch]

The owners have already 'made some income' from selling the radar, ILS ground equipment etc. I think it's called asset stripping...
mmitch.