Taking the plunge.

[triumph44]

Right, I know I should maybe be looking on the 'so you want to become a helicopter pilot' thread to find some answers, but I'm wanting some honest feedback from current heli pilots to give me a better idea.

Im 28 years old from the UK and it's always been a lifelong dream to become a helicopter pilot, and after recently taking some lessons has confirmed this! I'm currently a qualified retained firefighter and HGV mechanic working within a family business earning a decent wage and with the imminent handover of the successful family business to myself, the problem is that I cannot imagine myself doing this job for the rest of my working life and cannot shake off the continuing thought of becomming a pilot. I also have a wife and 2 young daughters.

I currently have the opportunity to loan the necessary funds from a family member to complete my helicopter training (to include JAA cpl with atpl theory + ME IR). My main objective is to become a pilot in the North Sea, but my questions are:

- Is the position I am in with a family and future business worth the gamble to pursue a lifelong dream and become a helicopter pilot?

- What are the realistic chances of gaining a job offshore with low hours?

Thanks.

[drugsdontwork]

Not worth the risk.

[spencer17]

Short and rude:

Question 1 - NO
Question 2 - NO

Run your business, get a PPL and do some hours when you like it, not if you have to.
Going into dept with a very vague prospect of getting a job is not worth it.
I'm into helicopters for more than 40 years and would do it again, but the Army paid me to get my license, so different story to yours.

Sorry, it may be a bit disappointing but honest.

All the best

spencer17

[Hughes500]

I am not a North sea pilot but ATPLH and TRE, if you are going to work in The North Sea flying described to me as 99% sheer boredom and 1 % sheer terror. Plus you will be spending a lot of time away from your family, which given their current ages seeing them grow up is more important than being a glorified taxi driver at the moment.
I work on shore as with a varied job, currently long line lifting in The Peak District, can usually be found instructing, examining in the summer months with winter doing lifting jobs.
If you can afford it have a private one and go where you want to go when you want to go.
Have fun

[nigelh]

I agree !!!!!! Having done both ..... I would say that my flying now is far more enjoyable than when I was working as a pilot ( not for long !!) . There is very little or no wazzing around having fun , landing at friends houses for dinner / lunch etc when you are working . Also I personally cannot imagine doing N Sea work . Very challenging at times I am sure , but what I do now is so varied .... One day trying to get from Yorkshire to London in poor weather , next day landing on a grouse moor in beautiful weather picking people and dogs up and going to the pub !!
Make some money and fly for fun !!

[mdovey]

"HGV mechanic working within a family business"

Obviously get proper business advice before doing so, but given your background it occurs to me that you might be able to diversify the family business to include helicopter maintenance (catering for flight schools, small charter and private owners) - it will give you good ties into the helicopter business, and you might even get the chance to fly some of them back to their owners.

Matthew

[SASless]

One Man's Opinion.....as much as I endorse living One's Dream.....in this case I would encourage you to staying away from being a professional helicopter pilot....for any number of very good reasons.

In the long run.....if you are anywhere as intelligent and talented as you appear to be....you did have the very good sense to ask advice from others in the profession.....you should be able to do very well at your current profession.

Use your abilities and head start in life and use that as a vehicle to do recreational flying of all sorts....Gliders, Airplanes, and perhaps helicopters in time. Go when the weather is right, to places you wish to go to, and with people you wish to go with.

Raise your Children, provide for them, be a good Husband.....and find that compromise between living your Dream and enjoying what you are being given.

I walked away from a family business.....turned down an opportunity to fly for the Airlines.....and decided not to attend Law School.

Over 12,000 Hours flying time....mostly in helicopters....I would not do it again. The Military paid for my training....although the Apprenticeship left some scars....so I did not wind up in debt to accomplish obtaining my certifications.

I loved Glider flying....and enjoyed Airplane flying. Helicopter flying ultimately became just a way of making a living.

The time to make your decision is when you are sat at the Dinner Table looking at your Children.....do what is best for them and you cannot go wrong.

[firebird_uk]

I stand to be corrected, but I think the change to EASA regs will make it much harder for the self funded pilot to break into the ME IR markets unless they are willing to ply there trade anywhere in the world.

In the past military pilots would end up on civvy street and discover that the CAA didn't give a hoot about their military experience unless it was extensive. Guys that had flown ME military helicopters would end up right back at square 1 starting ppl(h)'s in R22s. For many the expense to get back to where they once were meant that they couldn't do it.

AFAIK that has now changed and a large part of a pilot's military accreditation(s) can be carried across [and so it should be]. For the privately funded flyer this means that you're going to have to invest serious amounts of money to get a CV that competes.

I've spent the last 10 years in this industry and still can't find a way to make any money out of it. Has it been fun? Yeah, at times. Would I do it again? Nah, I could have saved tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of pounds that could have been spent recreationally flying whilst working in a job with a better guarantee of a pay cheque at the end of the month.

[Focha]

Its interesting that every time SASless writes, I very much agree with him.

Opinion of an intelligent man with the background and experience to support his ideas and opinions.

I totally agree with him. The difference is that he has more than 30 times the experience I have.

So, from a person who has paid the CPL (H) plus IR (H) and that have been working in the industry for about 3 years, I can tell you the following:

1. Stick with what you do now, make aviation a hobby. Even if you don't have the money to fly helicopters, try planes. You will not regret it.

2. Not everything that seems to shine do actually shine as it seems. In my short life as professional helicopter pilot I can tell you that 80% (or even more) of the time you will not do what you thought you would do.

As SASless wrote, I also could give you a great number of good arguments for not becoming a professional helicopter pilot, maybe I also have some scars, some still fresh, of the learning process, either by the good and/or bad examples.

So, my advice, be with your family, stay with your wife and raise your children, enjoy having your own business, managing your life and not being constantly managed and you will find that your dream is still achievable, I personally think that everyone should start with a PPL and not going directly to CPL/ATPL, try PPL, not as much money as CPL and a lot more fun, I am sure.

Personally the most intelligent way of being in aviation, make it a hobby. Some may not agree with me. Lucky those...

Regards.

[Old and Horrified]

I speak as one who funded his son to pursue his dream about 5 years ago. He ended up with a CPL(H) and I ended up about £60k poorer. Hoever, I did have a lot of fun with him on hours building trips around the country. There is nothing quite like arriving by helicopter at a hotel landing site for lunch, even in a R22!

Since then he has been able to get bits a pieces of work, thanks to the generosity of the flying school he went to. All other efforts to get work failed.

The result was that he managed to get about 20 to 30 hours paid work a year, enough to cover costs (OPC etc) but little else. Luckily he had another job which paid reasonably well. Last year was the quietest ever for ad hoc flying work, hardly any weddings for example. From my perspective job prospects for a low hours CPL have been getting progressively worse and show little signs of improving in the near future.

My son has now moved overseas working in a completely different field. He will renew his license this year, but only so that he can do pleasure flying at a later date when he becomes rich.

I agree with all those comments above and so my advice to you is the same - don't.

[tu154]

If you had asked me a year ago, I'd have said don't do it. However having just started in the North Sea it's finally worked out for me. But it took 4 years of graft on minimum wage and a billion trial lessons flown to get here. It's a gamble, but coming into it later in life means the odds are stacked against you somewhat.

If you have your IR today, there is a reasonable chance of getting hired, as long as you can pass the selection tests and interview. Lots don't. But things change and the window may close. Timing, luck, determination are important. It's an expensive gamble. Someone on here once said about this, "do you feel lucky".

If today me had the chance to talk to yesterday me about the slog of the last few years, I'd probably say don't do it. Just seen the bit about borrowing to do it, you'll have to think very hard about what happens if you don't get hired, and paying back that money.

[feathering tickles]

Wow, what a lot of negativity!

Where are all the pilots who love what they do and wouldn't change it for all the tea etc? - could it be that they're all out charging around the skies saving lives, hunting criminals or flying around the world's most beautiful places with the world's most interesting people...rather than reading some internet forum??

[paco]

The yellow jacket brigade crept in....

:(

Phil

[500e]

Perhaps they are looking at it as a job that pays the bills.
Self funding with IR is going to leave you with a large hole in bank balance, and still requiring hours.
It would be interesting to know the split between Mil trained & self funded commercial pilots

[Focha]

feathering tickles Wow, what a lot of negativity!

Where are all the pilots who love what they do and wouldn't change it for all the tea etc? - could it be that they're all out charging around the skies saving lives, hunting criminals or flying around the world's most beautiful places with the world's most interesting people...rather than reading some internet forum??

Not every single helicopter pilot is being well paid saving lives, hunting criminals or flying around the world's most beautiful places with the world's most interesting people and also with the best boss around to tap on your back and say "great work". Before working in aviation I thought it were just like you describe it above. It isn't.

[spencer17]

Wow, what a lot of negativity!

Where are all the pilots who love what they do and wouldn't change it for all the tea etc? - could it be that they're all out charging around the skies saving lives, hunting criminals or flying around the world's most beautiful places with the world's most interesting people...rather than reading some internet forum??

No, I'm not negative at all.
After more then 40 years and 21,000 hours in helicopters I still love it and I would do it again.
I'm not quite sure if I could say the same doing the North Sea, but luckily still on my lifting and AG stuff.
You have to see the personal circumstances and in that case the most sensible way seems to run the family business and fly for fun.

[76fan]

I am not a current pilot but ...... there is a big difference between flying for fun (when you get airborne on a sunny day and go where and when you want) and flying for a job when you have to fly when somebody else wants you to fly, be it at unsociable hours, in rotten and perhaps unexpected bad weather, perhaps in god forsaken places where expensive helicopters are only used because there is no other way, or perhaps with customers who treat you like dirt.
Being a professional helicopter pilot is not glamorous. There are summer days when it is a joy to fly and your passengers are pleasant and appreciative of your skills and care but you will find that those days are far less frequent than those when it is just another job and you are pleased when the workday ends. And remember your career could end abruptly if you fail a regular medical check.
In your position I would stay in the family business, fly for fun.

[triumph44]

Wow! Great response and thanks to everyone for their honest opinions. The reason for my interest with offshore flying in the North Sea has stemmed from me living on the doorstep of Humberside airport all my life so have regularly seen half a dozen helis flying overhead on a daily basis but it had never crossed my mind that it may become a mundane job!! I also know an offshore pilot flying out of Humberside and they seem to have a fantastic job with brilliant pay, roster, holidays etc.. I know that's not everything though.

I know I may sound ungrateful and selfish to give up on the opportunities I currently have to pursue my dream but I think I would really regret it if I didn't do it. I know my family comes first and always will but my wife has a reasonably paid job and would support me with my decision. I currently work 6 and a half days per week mostly 12 hour days! So surely being a heli pilot wouldn't take any more time away from my family than that, or would it?

If I was to pursue the training we had considered aiming for the integrated course at the Bristow Academy in Florida. Any thoughts on this school?

Thanks.

[DeltaNg]

Would you be willing to relocate to Aberdeen for 5 years?

[Art of flight]

If you don't get that NS job, where are you going to after that? Police/AA need 1500-2000 hrs minimum with twin, night etc...Corporate, still need lots plus type rating, or if you're really lucky get to work for a wealthy person and dance to their tune whilst scraping to pay off all that training.

Even at your age, you're behind most, listen to these people and show your wife this thread and see if she thinks moving to Aberdeen is worth it YOUR dream.

[Bravo73]

I currently work 6 and a half days per week mostly 12 hour days!

You certainly wouldn't be working like that if you were an offshore pilot!

If I was to pursue the training we had considered aiming for the integrated course at the Bristow Academy in Florida. Any thoughts on this school?


On balance, that would probably be your most straight forward way to an offshore job.

[SASless]

Or say.....Port Harcourt, Saudi, Fouchon Louisiana, Unst, or any number of places spring to mind for that matter.


28 is not old.....and not too old.

One measure might be to remember the age limits for working as a Commercial Pilot, the Pension one can earn in the time one is working, the portability of the Pension, the cost of moves from Job to Job as one works up that Totem Pole of experience, ratings, and flight hours.

Add to that the constant worry of losing One's license on medical grounds and the situation that provides should it happen then this flying thing becomes even more of a "risky" business.

It is not an easy or simple decision to make especially with a wife and children to consider.

Those of us who advise careful consideration and deliberation have been accused of negative thinking and of being members of the "Yellow Jacket" Brigade.....yet everyone of us are relating our own experiences from a position well down that road of life.

We were asked our views and we provided them.

Two days ago I advised a 32 Year Old Female Army Helicopter Pilot to get her Fixed Wing Licenses and aim for an Airline Job here in the United States. She is single, childless, a current Army Aviator, and can convert her Military experience to Civilian Ratings under our "Military Competency" procedure. Her out of pocket costs will be almost "Nil" as she qualifies for what is known as the "GI Bill" which will pay for her Civilian Flight Training. Even then, I have advised her to have very real second thoughts about her original goal of becoming a Civilian Helicopter Pilot. Helicopter flying is becoming a better choice of professions in aviation but it still does not compare with Airline Flying in roster, pay, pension, and loss of license insurance.

I am sure 44 will make an enlightened decision.....and wish him well in whatever he decides.

[triumph44]

Yes we would be willing to re-locate to Aberdeen or anywhere else for that matter providing there was the guarantee of a job. Me and my wife have travelled a lot in the past (pre-children) so re-locating whether it be short or long term would not be a problem for us. My wife's job with the NHS means she can also be re-located.

[feathering tickles]

T44, If you want to fly helicopters for a living then you want to fly helicopters, if that IS you then you'll already know it.

Having reflected on this thread during a flight just now, I'm dismayed that there are so many here who are trying to talk you out of it. I suggest that they may not be indicative of the average professional helicopter pilot's thoughts.

I spend my days (the last twenty years and 15,000flying hours) surrounded by people who passionately love working as helicopter pilots and never think to look back at whatever "ordinary" jobs they did before.

Loads of them (the majority I'd say) are self-funded, non-military people. If you fancy a spin to the other end of the M62 you are very welcome to come and meet some of them.

Anyhow, you'll find your way to it if it's meant for you.

Ps don't tell this miserable lot but helicopters ARE cool :)

[Bravo73]

Yes we would be willing to re-locate to Aberdeen or anywhere else for that matter providing there was the guarantee of a job.

You might be able to stay where you are. Offshore flights out of Humberside are likely to increase over the next few years and not everyone wants to live around there.

The operators might be very happy if you are a local.

[cockney steve]

My wife's job with the NHS means she can also be re-located.

And if Scotland becomes independent?

Having a dream is one thing, the harsh realities of Commercial life is something else.
As a semi-skilled factory worker,I earned promotion, I became a mobile service-engineer....Car, Expenses, Telephone.....as a 22 year old singleton, it was great...suit and tie (smallish medical equipment) good pay...... Change of circumstances saw me managing a shop....from there, I was again promoted....big "patch" included all Eireland and all Scotland...again, I lived in hotels all week, saved a lot of cash.....but theliving out of a suitcase palls....the fast-food Grill lunch/Dinner becomes monotonous.....the propping up the bar, with a load of other dispossessed souls.......
Yes! I stayed in Aberdeen and Peterhead, before and during the boom......met a Heli pilot....hadto tell Reception where he was, 24/7 He could go to the pictures, but was always aware there could be a PA to get to the airport NOW he couldn't drink either! boredom wasdriving him nuts, despite the generous pay.
starting a family was my decider I took a calculated risk and went into the Motor trade 20% down and blagged a loan for the rest....
you have a wonderful head-start, an established business.

I'd suggest, firstly, as you are being handed it, learn to MANAGEit
makeyour days shorter, delegate, make the time you invest more profitable.

Then you'll be able to have a good income, see your kids growing up (that time flashes by!) and you'll be able to take the odd day off to learn to fly.
At the moment, it's not a healthy carreer option to be a NS pilot...If you really are obsessed with the notion, despite the cautionary tales from those here, who inhabit those shoes you aspire to, Sort out the family business....it's your money -tree...cultivate it, harvest the fruit and use it to support your family and dreams. the two are not mutually exclusive. if you manage properly, the business will virtually run itself and will still be there as security if the flying job doesn't continue
(but by then you'll have a huge pilot's pension and a very successful Garage business for your retirement fund! :)

I see a goose and a golden egg....DON'T KILL THE GOOSE!

[paco]

Well, at least for the moment - at a recent seminar the manufacturers predicted a need for 20 odd thousand pilots over the next 8 years, based on current orders, but I would probably include retirements in that.

I don't think Smoked Salmond has properly thought out independence but that's the subject of another thread :)

Phil

[FC80]

I'd say if you can afford it and you really want it, go for it! There is no point in having lifelong regrets, working your ass off at your garage while longingly staring at the aircraft flying overhead.

Obviously you are aware you could end up splashing £100K (or whatever it is these days) at the Bristow Academy and end up with nothing, but that is a risk that any self-funder takes - it sounds like you have sufficient financial backup to absorb that.

Another benefit of the BA is that Bristow will interview you for an FO position (if they are recruiting at the time) whereas if you had done your training elsewhere the hour requirements are much higher.

Recruitment in the North Sea seems to be proceeding at a rate of knots at the moment and has been for the last year, I just wonder how much longer for? There are people here far more qualified than I to speculate on that, I'm sure!

[GoodGrief]

You said you have to take a loan.
Don't do it, especially with the wife and kids.
If they don't like the shape of your nose at BA you'll never be hired.

[triumph44]

Thanks for the replies again.

In response to the previous comments,

'cockney steve' - I never said that the business would be 'handed' to me, there would be payments made over a period of time to complete the final handover. With regards to the 'on call' heli pilot you described as having to put plans on hold and not drink etc.. I have been used to that having been a retained firefighter for 9 years on call 24/7 so that shouldn't be a problem. I don't think Scotland will become independent for a few years either?

'SASless' - Thanks for your comments, somebody with your experience, I'd be foolish not to heed some of your advice.

'feathering tickles' - Thanks for the positive comments, I know it's what I want to do so it's good to hear some enthusiasm from a heli pilot about being a heli pilot!

'GoodGrief' - I would be borrowing the money from my brother who wouldn't be wanting the money paying back until I had started earning as a pilot.

Thanks.

[Bravo73]

If they don't like the shape of your nose at BA you'll never be hired.

Attending Bristow Academy obviously won't limit you to just being hired by Bristow. But it will satisfy one of the OGP criteria for a co-pilot. Otherwise, you might have to have 500hrs in ME helicopters before you can be hired.

[DeltaNg]

I wonder what the retention rates are for low hours co-pilots actually staying in the North Sea for > 5 years? Most of the ab-initio co-pilots I know moved on after a few years especially those whose original plan involved something more 'exciting'. The ABZ North Sea is a novelty while it lasts for many people, once they have a couple of thousand hours doing it, it soon becomes a means to an end. Sure, a good way to earn a living, but ultimately not something that people go home and dream about doing all over again the next day. Many co-pilots will use their experience gained to branch out into other sectors, such as HEMS, police or VIP perhaps, and I would say that is what will likely happen to yourself as you will hanker after 'proper flying'. You will probably move house three or four times until you eventually settle somewhere that ticks all the boxes: job satisfaction, money & location. And then, just as you think you've cracked it, the contract you are working on will disappear and you will have to move back to Aberdeen back to where you started. Most people end up back there eventually ;)

However, you will have a few stories to tell your brother, who will by that time have expanded the company business to a multi-million pound empire, which you opted out of long ago.

Fortunately, I didn't borrow any money to start my flying career, but I did opt of a family business, which would ultimately have allowed me to buy my own helicopter and do whatever I wanted. I didn't see that at the time, and I have had some great experiences, but I do think being comfortably off through self-employment must offer more freedom and choices than being stuck in a career that just about pays the bills, however nice the view is.

[b.a. Baracus]

It is something that I have always wanted to do.

However, I struggle to get my head around the huge investment required - circa £100k. Needless to say that is an eye watering sum of money. There are also no guarantees of employment at the end of training.

In terms of the debate regarding Bristow Academy. I guess it would make sense to go there as by not attending that school you have effectively reduced your employment chances by a third (in the NS). I have only ever heard good things about the setup over in Titusville.

Do Bristow consider people who have completed PPL(H) and hour building in the UK for example and then complete the CPL (shorter course) at BA or does it have to be the full ab-initio course through the BA?

Which potential employers would you be looking at with a fresh CPL/ME(IR) - Bristow, Bond, CHC, Dancopter. With low hours are you limited to companies serving the Oil & Gas industry?

Does anybody have any details on the employment statistics for graduates coming out of BA? What sort of support do BA offer in terms of job hunting etc?

Do people think the changes being brought about in terms of reduced pax and being located next to an exit will transpire into more flights and therefore more crews being required?

An interesting point raised in the previous post. Do many NS pilots move into HEMS, Police work etc? I had heard that terms and conditions were better in the NS rather than in HEMS, Police etc.

[DeltaNg]

Yes, NS pay is (for P1s) at least 20-30% more than HEMS/Police.

But then, you guys aren't in it for the money are you?

[Boudreaux Bob]

You will probably move house three or four times until you eventually settle somewhere that ticks all the boxes: job satisfaction, money & location. And then, just as you think you've cracked it, the contract you are working on will disappear and you will have to move back to Aberdeen back to where you started. Most people end up back there eventually

If you find a good lick, then hang on tight and enjoy it while you can. At some point it shall go away and back to Offshore flying in some boring place or with a bad operator or at bad pay.