CAP 413 Radiotelephony Supplement 3

[strollerweb]

CAP 413 Radiotelephony Supplement 3 was withdrawn 14 january 2014.

Im trying to find the phraseology for asking for a SRA. in my notes i can't decided if its "request SRA for active" or "request radar vectors for active" did it two years ago and never done since, revalidating next week and made the mistake of not noting down the simple stuff, because its easy to remember :rolleyes:

[thing]

Did my renewal last week, ILS not SRA but I imagine the phraseology is identical. On hand over from Donny to my home base I just called 'G-**** on handover from Doncaster request vectors for ILS.' Must have been right as the examineering person never said anything at the debrief.

[2 sheds]

Stroller

Just say what you require without any hangups! "Request..."

But where do you get "...for active" from? What is an active?;)

2 s

[GipsyMagpie]

I have always said "request radar vectors for a ______"

I think this is entirely iaw CAP 413 even though not explicitly written out.

However, if you were on handover, surely they had already asked for you? :)

[Mach Jump]

Just say what you require without any hangups! "Request..."

But where do you get "...for active" from? What is an active?


I agree entirely.:)

Instead of '..active..' just say the runway you want.


MJ:ok:

[thing]

However, if you were on handover, surely they had already asked for you?It just reminds the man or lady sipping coffee in their comfy chair who you are...:).

2 Sheds, active might be a miltary term. I use it, 'Request taxi to active via xyz' etc. Dunno, don't civvy folk use it as well? It's quicker than saying 'Taxi to Runway 30' or whatever.

[Mach Jump]

Request taxi to active....

Not military as far as I'm aware. Just makes you sound like you cant remember which runway you are using.;)


MJ:ok:

[thing]

I have been that man...:O

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Just makes you sound like you cant remember which runway you are using
Yep. Which means ATC are going to tell you, which means you're going to have to read it back, so it doesn't exactly save air time!

[thing]

Standard taxi call at my place is 'G**** request taxi to active with (insert latest ATIS code) and QFE blah.' Reply would be 'G**** taxi Foxtrot hold'. No mention of runways. But then if I give the latest ATIS code I have the latest runway, yes?

[strollerweb]

Thank you for the feedback, moral of the story take better notes.

for those that have got carried away with the 'active' comment. I was repeating what was on the bottom of my page of notes. I think at the time of writing that it was but forward as a unplanned division (weather) into an unknown airfield/airport IE no plate information to hand etc. type request. As i said poor notes meaning I was confused by the phraseology and was failing to find confirmation of the answer in the usual places

[xrayalpha]

Some airfields have two active runways.

We often do.

[Mach Jump]

for those that have got carried away with the 'active' comment.

The thread participants can often benefit from the drift as much as the original poster gained from the question. ;)


'G**** request taxi to active...

Why not just say 'Request taxy'


MJ:ok:

[thing]

Cos that's not the way I was taught to do it. I would just 'request taxi' at a civvy field however. I just do what I'm told, good boy you see :-)

[dont overfil]

Some airfields have two active runways.

We often do.

Here too!

D.O.

[Dave Gittins]

I'd just say "G-ABCD with information alpha QNH 1013 request taxi for departure."

Information Alpha told me which the "active" is.

Tower will then tell me I'm cleared to alpha 2 for 26 R.

etc.

[thing]

This is what I love about Pprune. Only here could you have a thread where one word either added to or left out of a transmission can cause so much debate...:).

Now, when you're climbing aboard a Cessna, do you put your left foot on the step first or the right?

[riverrock83]

I thought "Vectors for the ILS" is different from an SRA? Certainly I'd use a different approach chart anyway. The one at Prestwick has a separate SRA approach chart which includes instructions if you lose radio contact.

During a surveillance radar approach (SRA) the pilot is given distances from touchdown, advisory altitude information and azimuth instructions to enable him to make an approach to a particular runway
That is quite different from "Vectors to the ILS".

Really, an SRA is what happens after you get vectors to the top of the glide slope. I suspect it also requires ATC to have different qualifications. There is also a no-compass / no gyro version, in which they tell you for how long to turn left / right, assuming rate 1 turns.

To answer the original question, I'd keep it simple and say:
G-ABCD, Request SRA
or if feeling extravagant:
G-ABCD, Request surveillance radar approach runway 06


If I wanted a different runway to that on the ATIS, I'd add the runway designator.

BTW - CAP413 is still there - it is just the supplements that have been removed. See page 149 of the pdf in the actual CAP413 (designated Chapter 6 Page 21 if looking in the index).

And should say - vectoring for the ILS is on p137, although it isn't explicit on how the aircraft should request this.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Now, when you're climbing aboard a Cessna, do you put your left foot on the step first or the right?
But it does matter if it's a Super Cub you're getting into that you've just shoved off from the dock - get it wrong and you could waste sufficient seconds sorting yourself out that you risk hitting something.

The beginning of my first lesson consisted of getting into and out of the aircraft in a hurry until it was automatic which foot went first and where.

[strollerweb]

The thread participants can often benefit from the drift as much as the original poster gained from the question.

its gone from asking for an SRA to ripping holes in your floats in the space of one page :)

[thing]

I doubt I could get in a super cub. I just kind of throw myself into whatever I'm flying. Tests the suspension as well you see. Always think ahead.

I thought "Vectors for the ILS" is different from an SRA? Er, yeah it is. Why would you ask for an ILS if you're doing an SRA?

[GipsyMagpie]

Really, an SRA is what happens after you get vectors to the top of the glide slope.

"What happens" , really? An SRA is a type of approach...it doesn't just happen. And why not say "Vectors for an SRA...that's exactly what you want then its the same call each time. ;) But seriously, ATC are not stupid. They'll get your drift either way. Keep it simple and short...back on message?

[fireflybob]

Give me a vector for victor roger! Really you couldn't make this stuff up!

Over and Out!

Drat got my foot stuck in that float - Pan Pan......

[thing]

The Pprune forum gets airborne...

Roger Roger - Airplane! (8/10) Movie CLIP (1980) HD - YouTube

[engineno9]

I'm still relatively new but I always assumed 'active' was a US term...

When I was learning over there you would tend to let ATC know you were 'clear of the active' (out of courtesy more than necessity, they can see you anyway of course).

Whereas since I've been back here you'd tend to use the term 'runway vacated'. Or 'clear of the ...erm...runway vacated' in my case.

[Whopity]

Following the Tenerife accuident in 1977 it was agreed that the word "Clear" should never be used by a pilot except when acknowledging a Clearance to Take Off.

"Active" is certainly not a UK phrase.

[Crash one]

In the 60s it was referred to as the active or duty runway, military.All this civvy stuff is too long winded. "Pimpernel leader answering, Pimpernel leader answering, your message received and understood".

[Mach Jump]

"Pimpernel leader answering, Pimpernel leader answering, your message received and understood".

I think you'll find that's RAF phrasiology from WW2, if old movies are anything to go by! :)


MJ:ok: