IMC Rating and EASA

[172510]

I could not find answers to the following question.
In the future, will it still be allowed to train for IMC Rating out of an ATO?

What sort of certificate will you need to be allowed to train for IMC Rating? If it's an IRI it would mean that you must have a full IR, etc..

[GipsyMagpie]

Pretty sure a cri with IMC rating can instruct for it (this is wrong - see below). Definitely don't need to be an iri (this might be wrong too - but I think FI(A) + experience - see below)

I bow to Bose-x

Outside an ato? Not sure

[S-Works]

A CRI can't instruct for an IMCr or an IRR as it is under EASA. It needs to be an FI with no Instrument restriction or an IRI. The course is the same for the FI or IRI, you don't need a full IR but you will be restricted to teaching only for the IRR.

It can be taught outside of an ATO as it is a national rating.

[GipsyMagpie]

Fair enough. Don't know who told me that porky then.

[172510]

So you must
- either take an IRI course and have logged 800 hours under IFR as a prerequisite;
- or an being unrestricted FI plus 200 hours IFR, to be allowed to train for IMC rating?

[nick14]

Either way you have to take an IRI course, the only difference for an FI is that the course is 5 hours rather than 10 for a non FI.

[BEagle]

The CAA is currently reviewing the prerequistes for an FI who wishes to provide instruction for the IMCR / IR(R). It is likely that these will be exactly as they were in pre-EASA days for the 'Removal of No Applied Instrument' restriction.

[EGKA]

Can anyone advise, I have a student with a PPL easa license, they want to do the imc course, from what I have read they won't be able to attach this to their license, is this correct.
They did have a jar license before, assume thus lapsed easa the easa license was issued.

I know we can train for the imc until 2019, just wondering how to issue it, alternatively is there now an approve syllabus for the IRr which can be attached to EASA license?

[Whopity]

from what I have read they won't be able to attach this to their licenseIncorrect, you probably read this page (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2694&pagetype=90&pageid=15204)on the CAA website; that is out of date. Try this one (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=14&pagetype=65&appid=7&newstype=n&mode=detail&nid=2298)CAA welcomes IMC vote
Date: 17 October 2013
The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) today welcomed a proposal from the European Commission to allow the UK to continue issuing the Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) rating for pilots until April 2019. The move follows considerable effort by the CAA and UK GA to support the retention of the rating.

I think this illustrates the abysmal state of the CAA website!

just wondering how to issue it Apply on form SRG 1125

[EGKA]

Thanks for that, they don't make it easy to find the right answer do they!

But whilst the document states we can continue training for the IMC rating until 2019, doesn't say it can be attached to an EASA license after it has been issued, unless you know otherwise?

Thanks for your response.

[nick14]

As far as I know it can be. It will just not be acceptable outside the UK as before.

It's called the IR(R) on the EASA licence.

[EGKA]

Thanks, that my understanding also, but I haven't seen anything from the CAA to confirm this, anyone else seen anything?

Great we can still teach the IMC, but only cause there is no approve IR(r) syllabus, the CAA just need to confirm we can attach the IMC to a previously issue EASA licence.

You what the CAA are like, if it isn't written down then you can do it!

[BEagle]

The IR(R) is identical in every way to the IMCR. Same training, revalidation, renewal and territorial restrictions.

Neither an IMCR nor an IR(R) course need approval.

The IMCR cannot be attached to a part-FCL pilot licence, but will appear as an IR(R) when initially issued to the licence holder (except for a few who cling on to their UK PPL to fly IMC on non-EASA aircraft only) - or when a non-EASA licence is converted.

Just carry on as before and the CAA will ensure that the correct rating is issued - it's really no big deal.

[chrisbl]

Thanks, that my understanding also, but I haven't seen anything from the CAA to confirm this, anyone else seen anything?

Great we can still teach the IMC, but only cause there is no approve IR(r) syllabus, the CAA just need to confirm we can attach the IMC to a previously issue EASA licence.

You what the CAA are like, if it isn't written down then you can do it!

I take it you have not come across CAP 804 in your research, more specifically Section 5 Part E Page 1 which refers to the IMCR and the IR(R).

The only amendment being to the third paragraph where as mentioned above the IR(R) can be added to the EASA licence until 2019

[taybird]

Here's one for you -

A JAA CPL plus an IMC issued 2012.
In 2013 this was converted to an EASA Licence at the same time as adding ME and IR. A UK Licence was also requested.

The EASA license is CPL and has IR(R) listed
The UK license is also CPL but does not have IR(R) included. On query they say that the privileges of a UK CPL also incorporates the privileges of the IMC / IR(R).

All fine and dandy. Two questions -
Do my IR(R) privileges as part of my UK CPL ever expire?
(Note I don't have the rating explicitly expressed on my UK License, it's part of my CPL)

If someone applies for an EASA CPL, and also applies for a UK license, will he also have embedded IMC / IR(R) privileges, even though he could quite easily have never see approaches and holds since these aren't required for the CPL training.

[Whopity]

Do my IR(R) privileges as part of my UK CPL ever expire?
(Note I don't have the rating explicitly expressed on my UK License, it's part of my CPL)They do not expire because the licence is lifetime. In practice the UK CPL does not contain the two restrictions found in para (2)(c) or (f) of the privileges of the United Kingdom Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) the IMC was designed to remove.
If someone applies for an EASA CPL, and also applies for a UK license, will he also have embedded IMC / IR(R) privileges, even though he could quite easily have never see approaches and holds since these aren't required for the CPL training. That was always the case with a UK CPL

[DB6]

I must have missed something here. My UK CPL (kept active for this very reason) has 5 year validity. Lifetime UK PPL, yes, but CPL?
Also, surely the embedded priviledges can then only be used in annex A aircraft etc, so effectively no use for teaching on EASA aircraft?

[S-Works]

That's correct, a UK licence is only any use on permit or Annex 2. There is no point in requesting a UK national licence unless you have a specific type that is national only such as a jet provost or a gnat. Your EASA licence covers everything else.