Aero Rescue

[Advs]

Anyone have any current info on Aero Rescue such as the standard:

-Pay
-Allowances
- Hours flown
- Company culture
- Hours flown a year
- Interview structure and questions

Please don't speculate, facts would be good :)

[JRL89]

Also looking for the same information (PM's preferred), that may differ from the already existing threads found between 2008-2013.

Cheers

[Blueskymine]

Less than 100 hours a year.

Suit semi retirement for someone looking at slowing down the flying career vs building hours.

She's an orphan aircraft. If you're interested in that type of work, go to cobham and fly the trash 8.

Close to 75k for an effo. 40% more for a skipper.

It'll take 6 months to check to line, simply because of the limited opportunity for line training. It's not like there is scheduled flights or anything.

[Waghi Warrior]

I read somewhere that Cobham may be going to do it, it was on here I think? Any substance in that rumour? Also notice that Cobham are advertising for pilots, both Captains and FO's. If I had a choice and was looking at this kind of work I know who I would be applying to.

[Trojan1981]

Various government departments have been looking at combining the AMSA SAR and Coastwatch contracts. The earliest that could happen was 2020, from memory. There was also talk of a combined SAR/Disaster Relief contract. Combining contracts run by different government departments is like waiting for the planets to align, and hasn't been successful in the past, with the possible exception of asylum seeker contracts...

[Cirronimbus]

Or if CASA decides to pull the AOC, there might not be much choice but to get Cobham to pick up the work.....but I only heard a rumour about some dodgy Dornier stuff....or did the pilots really do those things?

[Errajane]

Less than 100 hours a year.

Suit semi retirement for someone looking at slowing down the flying career vs building hours.

She's an orphan aircraft. If you're interested in that type of work, go to cobham and fly the trash 8.

Close to 75k for an effo. 40% more for a skipper.

It'll take 6 months to check to line, simply because of the limited opportunity for line training. It's not like there is scheduled flights or anything.

Anyone have an update on the FO pay on the CL604?

[DutyofCare]

Anyone have an update on the FO pay on the CL604? :confused: :confused: :confused:

COB HAM haven't got that issue sussed just as yet FYI.

It's ( the money side ) is close, but from Marty in TSV it'll be CAPT $120 000 base & FO 60 % of that.

Bases are CS, PH & ML .

Not a lot of Kina to steer a CL 604 around for mine, Tom is tight as we know :{ :{ :{

[Green gorilla]

I did see 133 for captains 74 for FOs before it was removed.

[wishiwasupthere]

Not a lot of Kina to steer a CL 604 around for mine

Considering it's pretty much a part time job, it would be a tad greedy to expect too much more.

[Dashunder]

Official now, 133 for Captains and 74 for FO's.

[Square Bear]

whisiwasupthere

Can't see how it could be considered a "part time job". The job description I'm hearing is not designed for any part timer.

I'd imagine flying a jet to the task and then fly it at dot feet would be demanding at the very least.

You would be better to describ it as a "full time job" requiring a high skill set.

Hours flown per year are not the marker for professionalism

[KoolKaptain]

74k for an FO. That'd have to be an all time low! Only 55% of a captains wage too! U can easily earn that (and in most cases significantly better) in the RHS of a Saab, Dash, or ATR!

[Errajane]

What duties/activities are there to do when waitng for a call out? Is it structured by the company or you do your own thing?

[training wheels]

It's interesting that they have acquired an aircraft well ahead of the planned August 2016 start. Is to be used for training perhaps..

3SN1zbj6Wb8

[Centaurus]

I'd imagine flying a jet to the task and then fly it at dot feet would be demanding at the very least.


I wouldn't call flying on autopilot for the whole trip, exactly "demanding":ok:

[Pimp Daddy]

It's interesting that they have acquired an aircraft well ahead of the planned August 2016 start. Is to be used for training perhaps..

That and it is at Feild Aviation until end of the year getting structural mods then in Adelaide from Jan- May 16 getting the mission equipment fitted.

[havick]

What duties/activities are there to do when waitng for a call out? Is it structured by the company or you do your own thing?

How big is your hard drive full of movies and TV shows?

[chickenman]

Any idea Tech Crew Salary? Rumoured 15k - 20k cut and no allowances.

[wishiwasupthere]

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements_applications/AG2015_5900.pdf

[neville_nobody]

Good opportunity to get a degree or other qualifications. 38 hours a week is alot of sitting around. How much training can you do every week?

How do you stay proficient in such a job without flying?

[NOSIGN]

I wouldn't call flying on autopilot for the whole trip, exactly "demanding":ok:

I imagine you're taking the pi$$ Centaurus?

Critical missions, complex jet, low level, slow speed drops, inclement wx, not fully automated flight deck... sounds pretty demanding.

[Capt Fathom]

Define:
Critical Missions,
Complex Jet,
Low level,
Slow speed drops,
Inclement wx,
Not fully automated flight deck.

[layman]

There will be others more knowledgeable than me, but as a starting point

Define:

Critical Missions:
SAR usually means people's lives are at risk (30 minute from call-out to ready to take-off)

Complex Jet:
Complex operating environment? Not just the aircraft but includes the 19 day course at Bombardier to sit in FO seat + low level + SAR equipment / search training + crew integration

Low level:
possibly "below 500FT" (AMSA web site - Recommended Search Heights")

Slow speed drops: ?? (around 150kts?)

Inclement wx:
not always this bad, but thinking back to the 1999 Sydney to Hobart. Helicopters and P3s operating in cyclonic conditions

Not fully automated flight deck:
At low level, I don't imagine there would be much time on auto pilot with relatively frequent changes in search legs

regards
layman

[NOSIGN]

Gday Capt Fathome,

Similar to what Layman said...

Critical Missions, - sorties whereby the performance of the Crew may affect the rescue of lives in jeopardy.

Complex Jet, - let's face it, the 604 is no Blanik. The Challenger requires two coordinated and type rated Crew to operate it professionally. There are seven heavy volumes in the flight manual alone and many many buttons, ccb's and reversion options.

Low level, - flight below IFR LSALT. Eg 500, 200ft above ground.

Slow speed drops, - min manouvreing speed at first stage of flap is 160kt. Drops by the Danish Air Force are conducted at ~170kt I think. Not much margin there and low speed cues are visible at those configurations.

Inclement wx, - Murphys Law isn't it? Greater chance of wx below the tropopause. Low level, low speed, below 10deg c, visible moisture = icing conditions. It would be a skillful juggle to operate/ drop in those sorts of conditions.

Not fully automated flight deck. - I hear that there's no auto thrust on these particular beasts.

That's a quick personal rundown of those dot points. What's your opinion?

Define:
Critical Missions,
Complex Jet,
Low level,
Slow speed drops,
Inclement wx,
Not fully automated flight deck.

[FGD135]

What is complex about it? Your description of the 604 could be applied to every modern bizjet of the same class.

If you were describing the Concorde as complex, I could accept your description, but a 604?

[pithblot]

In flying there is always another pi$$ing competition :(

Who's calling a Blanik simple?

[zanthrus]

Seriously it is just another aircraft.
If you can start it, you can probably fly it.

[layman]

If you can start it, you can probably fly it.

In my opinion, not quite.

Have witnessed a 604 start from the jump seat ... almost a 'press one button' to start.

I think learning to fly, and the flying, would be just a bit more complex

I seem to remember being told they were quite difficult (impossible?) to trim to hands off when being hand flown - making it a little more interesting when down low (in less than perfect weather?)

[AerocatS2A]

Having done a little bit of this kind of thing with Coastwatch Dash 8s, I can tell you the job has very little to do with flying an aeroplane and a lot to do with managing a crew and aircraft in a rapidly changing environment. The fun part of Coastwatch was always getting the call (often from three different channels--satphone, INMARSAT, and HF--at the same time) asking if you could be at a certain position and recover to a certain place. How long can you hold for etc? It sounds simple, but by comparison flying from ILS to ILS around the capital cities of Australia is a piece of piss. I'm thinking that SAR will be like Coastwatch but without all the mundane searches in between.

The challenge is not the flying. It is operating below LSALT at night in IMC by coordinating with 4 - 5 crew and trying to keep a mental picture in your head of where the land is. It is trying to put the aeroplane in the best position so the guys down the back can get the information they need. In the case of SAR it's getting stores to people in need when the weather is ****. Boats don't generally get into serious trouble on a lovely day. You're effectively making up an instrument approach on the fly using some nicely conservative rules and SOPs. There's no ILS to take you down to the perfect drop spot. It's all done by crew coordination and honestly it's not for everyone. there are plenty of pilots around who have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the person in charge of the mission is not the captain.

There is also not the same support from ops that you might be used to in a more mundane operation.

An aeroplane is an aeroplane, but the job itself can be challenging.

I didn't really want to get involved in this pissing match but the guys who think the presence or not of an autopilot or autothrottle makes a difference to how challenging the job is have literally no idea what they're talking about.

[catseye]

Well said aerocats!:D

[NOSIGN]

Aerocat, Hats off to you and all the Crew who do and have tackled SAR and Coastwatch. It must be a challenging and rewarding profession.

Re the auto throttle - I raised it briefly in response to a posters statement that flying on automatics all day isn't considered challenging.

[Capn Bloggs]

there are plenty of pilots around who have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the person in charge of the mission is not the captain.

Count me out then! :}

[717tech]

Hear hear aerocat!

[AerocatS2A]

Re the auto throttle - I raised it briefly in response to a posters statement that flying on automatics all day isn't considered challenging.
Ah it was aimed more at Centaurus, who should really know better.

[gav_20022002]

Well Written Aerocat!!
Having been down the back on many of your flights what you have said is spot on. Especially about some pilots coming to grips with the fact they are not in charge of the mission its self.:DMy view from "down the back" of the plane was an eye opener. I saw many very experienced pilots struggle to come to grips with the kind of flying that CW and SAR demand.

Its definitely not everyone's cup of tea and definitely not when your 2 hours off the coast and 3 hours away from the nearest suitable airport and one of those lights start flashing with nothing but a whole lot of blue water around. But when you find that person in distress or are sitting 5000ft above an illegal fishing boat and watching a naval patrol boat of Customs vessel charge in and intercept in real time it has to be the MOST rewarding job I can think of.

[training wheels]

So has anyone been called for an interview for the Challenger 604 positions?

[AerocatS2A]

Well Written Aerocat!!
Having been down the back on many of your flights what you have said is spot on.
My flights personally or was that a general "your"? The former wouldn't surprise me, I was there long enough.

[layman]

Just curious, will Cobham's SAR crew operate differently to RAAF P3? As I understand it, a P3 captain retains command even if largely deferring operational issues to the TACO.

Also, having looked at the EBA, just wondering how this fits with the AMC earning just over 50% of a captains pay?

regards
layman

[Errajane]

So has anyone been called for an interview for the Challenger 604 positions?

Emails to participate in stage one of the selection process have been sent to candidates.

[AerocatS2A]

Just curious, will Cobham's SAR crew operate differently to RAAF P3? As I understand it, a P3 captain retains command even if largely deferring operational issues to the TACO.

No idea how the SAR will operate but Coastwatch was (is) much as you describe for the P3s. The captain is the captain but mission related decisions that don't affect safety of flight are made by the EMC.

[layman]

AerocatS2A

thanks

[Green gorilla]

After 5 years as a Dorner 328 SAR pilot and the last 3 years flying jets I would say the SAR flying was the coolest thing I've ever done.