G1000 advice

[Mick Stuped]

Time has come with SID's/ageing fleet to start upgrading the old 206's with something a bit newer.

Looking for any advice on realiabilty of the G1000. We work in the bush and I am concerned that going away from analogue could be an issue when our closest LAME is 2 - 3 hours flying away.

How reliable are the G1000 with dust, dirt, rough strips?

If they go down it seems items like fuel gauge, EGT, etc that are still working well but be denied, due to some issue with the G1000 itself, and could ground us in the middle of nowhere more so than analogue ever would.

I Maybe wrong, but as we only run analogue it's a whole new world for me, I realise we have to move down this road, just concerned after hearing a few reports that they aren't really bush tough enough yet.

[Capt Fathom]

Why do you need to upgrade?

[Jabawocky]

I would encourage a G500 or G600 with a GTN and a Auracle EMS.

Be half the cost and way better. Seriously better. G1000 is ok but old and lots of sub optimal things.

PM me with contact details if you want to discuss.

[RatsoreA]

I agree with Jaba. Plus, you can't buy a G1000 and retrofit it to your older aircraft, they are only available with new aircraft from the manufacturer.

The G500/600 are whats available for retrofit.

I have a G500 and GTN650 fitted to my PA34 and it has run with no issues what so ever going on 14 months now. I also had the backups changed over for solid state electronic devices, so there is no vacuum system (not even the pumps) at all on mine, which is brilliant. Mate of mine operates a PA31 and has had 2 vac pumps (same side both times) break in that time.

Change over to them, you won't regret it, from a reliability point of view, and actually flying it. I find for me, I can fly longer with less fatigue than I can on steam driven analogue.

[poonpossum]

Pretty sure this guy is saying he wants to purchase new 206s and Is investigating the viability of the g1000 pre installed from the manufacturer.

[RatsoreA]

Pretty sure this guy is saying he wants to purchase new 206s and Is investigating the viability of the g1000 pre installed from the manufacturer.

Now that I re-read that, the original post does seem to suggest that... :\

[Mick Stuped]

You are right Poonpossum, I don't want to upgrade avionics I want to upgrade aircraft.

Crunching numbers with the ever increasing number of AD's on old 206's and now with the SID's, if we are knocking out 1000 to 1200 hours a year per aircraft, we can make payments on a newer aircraft less than 5 years old with just what we save in having quicker 100 hrlys with less AD's etc and smaller maintenance bills and time offline. Want something less than 5 years old as the SID's will kick in again 15 years and hope to be able to replace again in 10 years at 10 to 12,000 hours.

However trying to find low time less than 5 year old aircraft without all the wiz bang electronics just isn't possible as now they all come standard with G1000. I just want a ute. Same seems to apply to the Airvan as they are also going more glass.

[tnuc]

When we where looking to purchase a later model 206H (not a Turbo) we found that Non turbo aircraft where at a premium due to the low number manufactured.
Also the analogue Nav II aircraft that where built alongside or just prior to the NAV III (G1000) where being sold at a premium.

[Oktas8]

Used a couple of G1000 units in a simulator. Obviously, clean and controlled environment. However, the rotary knobs could not keep up with the hard life they got. We did not have to replace the entire displays, but knobs needed repair every couple of years.

The G1000 units in the aircraft were just fine. However, I can't comment on dusty environments; this was in a cool and humid climate.

[Jabawocky]

Sorry I was misreading due to the topic name.

In that case, there are bigger issues you need to consider. A PM is on its way and if you can find the time call me.

It has nothing directly to do with the G1000, but it needs talking about.

Glad to see someone investing in GA's future! :ok:

[Jabawocky]

Dam it...... you have no PM's activated.

Contact me somehow.... we should talk.

[Mick Stuped]

Jabba, its not so much about investing in the future its all about surviving now. Just don't have an endless pit of money to keep throwing at aging aircraft.

We in GA are bleeding and this is the only way I can see of pulling in the costs even with us having our own maintenance. At the end of the day the bottom line still says we will have same margins, we will just switch maintenance bills for loan or lease payments but hopefully pickup a bit with less downtime, require less aircraft and try and remain in business a bit longer. Think this is the CASA solution to Aging aircraft - keep on increasing inspections until it is no longer viable to commercially run that aircraft.

Question is how do we replace them? A 182 sold new in 1978 for $22,000 what are they now around the $7 to $800,000. New 206 around the $900,000 fly away. Unless you live on a pot of gold, how can a small aviation business get payback on repayments that high unless you have cast iron contracts of a substantial period. And not many of them out there any more.


Drought effected farmers with assets of up to 2.5 million can get low interest loans from the government, why cannot we get the same thing to replace aging aircraft. We are in the bush, we are getting screwed by forces out of our control, we are laying of people because we don't have the work. Lots of parallels.

GA is really bleeding hard, and the sad fact that the only time the general public hears about any thing to do with aviation having any problems is when Qantas has its first six monthly loss in years. The little guys have been bleeding harder, for longer, all you need to do is look at the number of Charter operators left compared with 20 years ago. I would love to make a profit instead of a basic wage.

I have got sick of submitting white papers and writing to MP's about issues like aging aircraft, over regulation, funding for upgrading outback strips etc. All seems to fall on deaf ears. All the lobbyist organisations we have been members of in the past seem to be just as frustrated with the general attitude of the powers that be, seems the pollies think its all to hard to sort out and are very good at giving promises without action. Will see what Truss comes up with but not banking on anything changing.

Now I have decided (and my wife says about time) not try to change the whole world, only mine. I keep out of arguments, keep my head down. This is why I don't give out email or PM with anyone as I tend to get suckered back into politics and I don't have the time or energy when I feel nothings going to change. Found NO SAR is much more pleasant. Nothing personal Jaba, want to keep it all in open forums that is the best way I feel of trying to get everyone involved in healthy open discussion.

Tnuc, re your comments on searching for aircraft, I found the same thing so really cannot understand why Cessna stopped offering naturally aspirated and analogue options when second hand market is showing buy preference is still for a basic good old ute, workhorse that has proven itself time and time again.

[RatsoreA]

Mick Stuped -

POTY

[Obidiah]

Mick,


How reliable are the G1000 with dust, dirt, rough strips?




Seemingly not too bad, worked in a company that had 4 aircraft with the G1000 that operated in somewhat bush operations. The pilot pool, management and engineering leadership were completely indifferent to the issue of dust ingress so they got a fair exposure. I only did about ~200 hours with the G1000 over 4 years and found it easy enough to use and fairly basic.

They do have failures from time to time but as I said not too bad. Pretty modular design so the offending component can be removed and replaced.

My feeling is the test for reliability starts at year 5 as repeated heat cycles, vibration, moisture, dust etc. takes its toll.

Personally I still prefer analogue systems (although now fly the Primus Apex system) and even more so for day VFR ops. But analogue or G1000 would be a toss of the coin when emotion is removed.

Give some long time operators a call is the best bet.

[Jabawocky]

Nothing personal Jaba, want to keep it all in open forums that is the best way I feel of trying to get everyone involved in healthy open discussion.

Your call, but what I have to discuss is not going to make it on an open public forum.

It is worth discussing and learning from by anyone about to spend $900,000 on a new 206.

I do not want to talk you out of it, but there are things you need to know and people you need to talk to. David Paynter at Brisbane Aero would be a good start. He might then tell you to call me.

By some of the puzzling comments you made in the last post, in particular the last paragraph I would suggest it foolish not to call me, especially if you have concern for the available revenue.

Dont get me wrong...its a great machine. :ok:

[Jack Ranga]

You'd prefer carbys over fuel injection?? :sad:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Been a while since I have flown G1000, but I seem to recall - do either one of two cooling fans and you are grounded! :E

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Same thing too with the gns430, lost fan and the screen starts to go pale and if your leg or skin touches the metal shell you'll soon know about it!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Same thing too with the gns430, lost fan and the screen starts to go pale and if your leg or skin touches the metal shell you'll soon know about it!

Not so!

Losing the G430 does not ground the aeroplane.

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Depends on whether or not you are relying on your GPS ;)

But yes Dr, you are correct, you aren't grounded with a 430 failure. My bad :ok:

[Andy_RR]

So, there's a market for leasing out ground-up restored, fully SIDS'd 200-series Cessna's with steam and carbs. Surely a couple of LAMEs could get together, rent a hangar somewhere and start cranking them out?

Here in Aus, you could also whack in a couple of Dynon glass thingys as well to make them look all modern to match the shiny paintwork.

Should be able to do that for less than the price of a non-existent new aircraft, surely? Maybe the hangar could be located in Guandong province too...

[LeadSled]

Mick and Folks,
Why the fixation on the C-206, what about the GA-8 Airvan??
Tootle pip!!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Cause its ugly as a hat full of a@#*holes? :E

Dr :8

[Jack Ranga]

And as slow as a Beechcraft Bonanza :E

[Mick Stuped]

LeadSled, have an open mind looking at everything at the moment, leaning towards low time, less than 5 year old 206's, mainly due to some of our work involves longer legs of 2-3 hours. 206 is a bit quicker and that bit of TAS over a year saves a heap of maintenance time as well as not running up TT on the aircraft.

Do admit though looks like the G8 is cheaper to maintain, so what you loose on one you pickup on the other. Lot of other operators I know are heading towards the Air van, they seem to have good reports so far.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Drift alert...

Mate of mine operates a PA31 and has had 2 vac pumps (same side both times) break in that time.

Gonna be pedantic here, Rats. PA-31's don't have vacuum pumps.:E

[Jabawocky]

Mick, I have flown one of the new ones......jeeez it even makes me look good....at flying that is. I was very surprised and impressed. I can put you in touch with a good guy if you like.

Good cabin and doors and pretty tuff.

Leadie has a good point, if that is what the job entails it is a nice unit. The one I flew was a TC unit and ran beautifully LOP at 57 LPH or something like that.

The N/A one would be better for short hauls, TC for big ones.

Again I offer help in some of the area's that everyone else is not much use in. (look at the company fuel burn for a start) Of course I am useless to you in all the areas others are useful in ;)

You can get my details from the website Advanced Pilot (http://www.advancedpilot.com/livecourse-au.html)

[Mick Stuped]

Thanks Jabba, know APA and the legends in the states, been running LOP on every thing for about 8 years, think that's why we are still in business. This is next round of economics.

My pilots don't like the idea of an air van as they are used to the bit more TAS and I can hear them all saying "are we there yet." However had a few chats to other operators they say they are very forgiving to fly don't have any bad traits so good for newbies, they said the biggest difference is you don't have to wait for a couple of weeks with the Airvan to come back from a 100 hrly like you do with a 200 series.

Talking with lames 100 hrly takes about half the time as you don't have an AD,s list as long as your arm to check each time. However I haven't checked as yet to what the current AD list is like for the 206H or the restart Cessnas that's going to be my reading for the weekend.

[VH-XXX]

Are Gippy Aero even manufacturing at the moment?

I know they lost a Supreme Court ruling over monies owned to a contractor. I wonder how they are going :ouch:

[Andy_RR]

Whatever they're doing, they're doing it under a black cloud...

[VH-XXX]

Are you talking about race or weather? :ouch::ok:

[ozaggie]

Talkin bout coal fire, I reckon!