QF DEC's to EK?

[falconeasydriver]

Rumour alert! the word on the street is the next tranche of DEC's will be inbound on the blunderbuss, most likely speaking with that all too familiar Ozzie twang, accent.
Could be/most likely BS, but then again?

[donpizmeov]

As the QF fellas seem to think its the 767 and 744 that are gonna get the chop, it would seem your rumour lacks credibility.

The Don

[Praise Jebus]

Doesn't matter where they come from really, all will ease the pressure on any possible improvement in T and C's

[falconeasydriver]

As the QF fellas seem to think its the 767 and 744 that are gonna get the chop, it would seem your rumour lacks credibility.


Don, I can promise you it's not my rumour! I'm merely communicating it, FWIW it came from a chap who has some fairly firm connections to skippy airways, make of that what you will, I am merely the messenger.

[fliion]

JAARule

The irony of your post: Ozzies do it our way.

From LIDO CRAR Australia 1-60

"2.14 Communications

Call-Sign / Flight Number "Group form" is the preferred means of transmitting call-sign/flight number.

Examples: QANTAS 1220 QANTAS TWELVE TWENTY VIRGIN 021 VIRGIN ZERO TWENTY ONE"

And if we did that in the UAE, the confusion & this alternate call sign stuff wouldn't be needed.

There are 10m commercial departures per year in the US - no country come close - get over it.

Back to DEC rumor...whether Yanks or Ozzies...or any nationality...for the sake of our FOs I really hope not.

Starting to hear FR have put out the soft gloves and are actively accepting EKers that have decided the chit is no different here than there. If command was to be further delayed...more will go back for sure.

f.

[Desert Driver]

Not sure EK wil be too keen to go down the DEC route again after the last time when it took 6 months for them to reach the line with a lot needing extra training to adapt to EK.
Although as one QF guy said he had "Qantas time" so EK would snap him up. He was a little perplexed when I stated EK don't factor "Qantas time". Although they may do if the time was spent in the bunk, 1/4 perhaps.

[The Dominican]

Not sure EK wil be too keen to go down the DEC route again after the last time when it took 6 months for them to reach the line with a lot needing extra training to adapt to EK.
We have heard this nonsense over and over through the years and sure enough they open the DEC window now and then in spite of all the claims of the almost impossible to achieve direct left seat at EK:rolleyes: save that idiocy for the dumb blonde on an overnight....! You do realize that other pilots read this site right? :ugh:

[CaptainChipotle]

You guys are funny. There are no DEC's in the future of EK. there are hundreds of qualified FO's now that weren't qualified over a year ago when the DEC rush came in.

Good luck to all the QF guys getting the chop. There are tons of better paying jobs in china/asia.

CC

[filejw]

CC What you say is true however EK have used DEC for years qualified FO's or not. Just depends on how much money can be saved by hiring said DEC.:yuk:

[Desert Driver]

["We have heard this nonsense over and over through the years and sure enough they open the DEC window now and then in spite of all the claims of the almost impossible to achieve direct left seat at EK save that idiocy for the dumb blonde on an overnight....! You do realize that other pilots read this site right? "]

I was only stating that EK were not too happy with the return of investment from the last lot. I know at some point they will have to consider that option again. There is no requirement for several years now.
As for saving my comments for the dumb blonde on an overnight. Not sure when I would know but I will look out for you, the blonde pilot!
:)

[fatbus]

A very small % of the last DEC's required extra training , most did very well. As to DEC's on the 380 let's wait and see, QF is looking at downsizing their 380 fleet already.

[fatbus]

As of the end of today , considering QF DEC's on the 777 and 330 not the 380. Sunday things could change.

[myekppa]

They're available?

[Rim-job]

There goes any chance of a serious pay rise.... :ugh

[ironbutt57]

What is so special about QF DEC's ??

Not the individuals specifically, but given the rather cozy alliance between QF and EK...it's likely if any pilot redundancies occur, the QF DEC's might turn up..and at other carriers in the Gulf as well..

[The Dominican]

fatbus
A very small % of the last DEC's required extra training , most did very well.

My point exactly......., this is the same thing I have discussed with a couple of friends that are training there at EK and they say the same thing, that the success rate is high! but every time the DEC subject comes up there is somebody talking out their rear end.......!:rolleyes:

[TATA]

Agree with u ,and all idiots claims that DEC will not open r FO who disparate and want to become captains ASAP .thinking DEC is taking their chance .remember they will get their command soon and company commercial needs for DEC has became real threat for both ops and cost .that had been ever since emirates started,FO thinks they own emirates ,it's not yours guys grow up . Dec will be implemented weather u like it or not or some top guns manager will be fired.

[max AB]

can I offer you another Bundy ???

[altocu]

Level 6 English?

[CaptainChipotle]

I'll give him level 3 at best. "hello, how are you? My name is…"


Latest rumor… …no DEC's

[Al Murdoch]

He's right, I've always felt disparate.

[Offchocks]

I'm with QF on the B744 and junior, so I'll be in line for an aircraft or rank move. I've not heard the rumour from inside QF and would not give it much credibility.

[Avid Aviator]

"Unlikely you'd leave QF to go to EK...."

There's many Qantas pilots who soon won't have a choice: you can't scrap 70% of your widebody fleet and not shed staff, including pilots.

For some, it will be China Southern, Jetstar or a day job. For others, EK will be a good option. Good luck to you all.

I don't believe the latest DEC rumours and the increase in QF applications are related.
DECs is one solution to increased resignation rates; there are others of course and time will tell which way EK jumps this time.

[Wizofoz]

Unlikely that someone would leave QF to come to EK.

We've had around 30 in the last three years.

[cerbus]

But how many of them are on LOAs?
Can't imagine any QF pilot willingly wanting to come to EK. It would be a huge drop or let down for them.

[Wizofoz]

Less than half are on LOA, and some that are have already extended beyond the 3 years.

A friend of mine recently committed suicide- after 12 years at QF he was still a 747 SECOND officer and in danger of losing his job- the pressure, negativity and zero prospects got to him I guess.

I re- met another colleague recently. He had similar time in QF, was a Junior FO on the 767, had been on permanent reserve for five years, and was now looking at being demote to SO.

Being senior at QF would be great- but it's no surprise some of those those with less than 20 years up are looking at the ME.

[Avid Aviator]

Indeed, Wiz.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Suicide is the leading cause of death in Australia for men under 44 so in the interests of empiricism it seems unlikely you should be mentioning Qantas in relation to the departed. Unless Qantas is the leading employer in Australia of course, in which case there would be some validity.

[Wizofoz]

Of course there was more to it, but the stress of the insecurity in his job was most definitely a factor. He had already been through the collapse of Ansett, was basically unemployable elsewhere as he had no current, applicable experience and at 45 seemed to have no decent career prospects.

Also irrelevant to the purpose of the post- Cerbus wrote that coming to EK would be a come down for any QANTAS pilot- that is clearly, simply untrue. It has been a career dead end for over a decade.

[cerbus]

If you lose your job it is a no brainier. However when you compare apples to apples EK does not stand up.
A-380 QF Captain. $380,000. 80 hours
A-380 EK Captain. $160,000. 95 hours
A-380 QF SO. $180,000. 80 hours

For the pilots not going to get downgraded or made redundant at QF they would be foolish to come to the sand. Include in your calculations the treatment of Arab style management, no unions, no CASA and a 14 hour plane trip home if you can get on the flights.

[MelbPilot85]

A-380 QF Captain. $380,000. 80 hours
A-380 EK Captain. $160,000. 95 hours
A-380 QF SO. $180,000. 80 hours

That's a bit of a simplistic look at it. That $160000 for an EK captain is tax free and doesn't factor in housing, education, medical etc. Not to mention the massive tax bill the QF pilots will have to pay out of that figure.

As you say you also have to factor in the management treatment and living away from home, but on the Qantas side you have to factor in the near zero career progression, and for some the fear of being made redundant.

So for some it will be a no brainer to stay home, and for others it might be very attractive. Not such a simple decision for many.

I wouldn't have thought QF A380 Captains would see EK as attractive from a financial perspective though, but then the grass is ALWAYS greener....

[Wizofoz]

Plus it doesn't all come down to money.

Some of us do the job because we like the job.

I turned down QANTAS 13 years ago. Had I not, there is no question I would be MUCH better off financially.

I also would have spent the lat decade and a half doing a handful of destinations over and over, while not actually flying the aircraft, just being a seat warmer with the occasional honour of climbing or descending, while my family would have had a modest but comfortable existence in a Sydney suburb.

I could by now be an FO on the 767- junior and doing crap routes, but at least getting to fly- until they get rid of the aircraft, then who knows??

None of that is bad- there are far worse ways to make a living.

What I did instead has meant living in four different countries, flying to literally dozens more, doing a lot of very interesting and challenging stuff (EK actually less than some of the European Shorthaul flying!!) and meeting a hell of a lot of interesting people.

My Kids have gotten to travel and experience the world in a much different and more full way than the once a year holiday from Aus would have afforded, and both have gotten a great education along the way.

BUT it's all cost a fortune and we will retire more modestly than we would have if I'd gone the QF route.

Still,I don't regret it for a second, it's been a blast!!

To suggest one route through life is definitively better then another is to forget there are different types of people on the globe.

[fringhtok]

Once Bitten:

It was published in the News Ltd. papers and websites. Qantas cuts was specifically mentioned as a contributing factor. Can't see how it's off limits for this forum.

I see this as a classic 'grass is greener' scenario. Cerbus published numbers that are 1) before tax 2) very debatable and, most importantly, 3) only achievable by a very, very small percentage of the QF pilot population.

Let's compare EK seniority and QF-

<5 years
EK- F/O or junior CPT. F/Os Highy likely to upgrade in the next 5 years.
QF- N/A no hiring in the last 5 years

5-10 years
EK- CPT (A few 380 F/Os in this group treated poorly. But, will upgrade soon)
QF- S/O Facing very real possibility/probablility of losing job in next 6-12 months. If that happens, very limited prospects- S/O time not worth much.

10-15 years
EK- Senior CPT
QF- Junior F/O facing very real possibility/probability of demotion to S/O or, at best, reduction in pay after move to narrowbody.

15-20 years
EK- Senior CPT probably looking hard at contract jobs.....
QF- F/O or very junior CPT about to be demoted or, at best, reduction in pay after move to 737

20-25 years
EK- ????
QF- CPT Likely facing a reduction in pay due a downgrade in A/C type. Constantly having leave assigned at the whim of company. Every time you go to work, faced with colleagues worried sick about losing job, or being demoted, and an extremely bitter employee group.

25-30 years
EK- Are you kidding?
QF- CPT Not going to lose your job but miserable watching demise of company and destruction of your colleagues' careers. Those not on the 380 may face reduction in pay due forced move to 330 or early retirement if they can't face a late career move to Airbus after flying Boeing for years.

30-35 years
EK- You're taking the piss
QF- These are the guys making the coin Cerbus mentioned!!!!


QF A380 Captains won't be coming to EK. But it's not a simple decision for anyone other than those 100 or so guys.

[harry the cod]

cerbus

May I join you on the other side of the see saw? 11 years in the Company, line pilot with housing allowance but have not included the education allowance of 72,000. I clear 66500 per month.

Multiply that figure by 12 and that's around 800K or $218k. 92 hours, not 95 (unless you want me to include 3 hours overtime as well?) That's take home. How much tax does one pay down under on 380K? I think you'll find they come out very similar. Yes, only 80 hours for QF but how many guys can earn that figure after 11 years?

Not saying one's better than the other, just like to have balance in a debate

Harry

[Offchocks]

How much tax does one pay down under on 380K?

Not allowing for any tax deductions, around about $145K, that is income tax + Medicare levy and surcharge. Depending what you spend your cash on, probably about another $15K on GST.
So possibly $160k in tax one way or another.

[The Zohan]

well, if we want balance than 92 hrs/month in EK on the 380 is also not a realistic average.

as a 380 cpt I flew 830ish hours from Mar 1st 2013 til Feb 28 2014.
the hours for every single month were: 91:35, 77:33, 85:42, 26:30, 19:13, 97:39, 56:30, 99:06, 72:08, 76:38, 69:41, 58:07...(not in this order :E)

a couple of sick days and 42 days leave, passed the 92 hrs mark only twice...

tz

[Trader]

Almost 900 hours, same aircraft, same seat---lots of months with 91 hours. Take away leave and ground work and those months bring the average down. Fact is we never fly less than 85 hours in a month unless there is leave.

[CaptainChipotle]

either leave or training, if not, 92 hours on the dot.

[LHR Rain]

Contacted you must be a company man with your insane dose of reality.
71 hours a month? Give me the drugs you are on because I sure could use them to help me sleep through the night and recover quicker after another all nighter.
I had 3 weeks vacation a few months back and flew 44 hours for the month. Think about how abused I was that month. In 11 days of work I flew 44 hours. Almost a full month at other airlines. I have not been below 90 hours and I know of no one that flies less than me.
We have too many pilots that are over 1000 hours for the year and 25% of the Emirates pilots that are over 900 hours.
Combine that with east-west crossovers, 2am starts, 6am finishes and then do the reverse pattern next week and you have for a very tired work force. It does't matter, Ryan Air pilots love it here.

[LHR Rain]

I would love to fly only 71 hours a month. Unfortunately I would have to go to another airline to achieve that.
Again I know of no captain that flies anywhere close to 75 hours a month and just about everybody is well above 90 hours a month.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

LHR- Airbus pilots average less than 70hrs a month. However their work load is punishing. 10-12 turns each month, of which 50 percent of those are through the night.

[Praise Jebus]

Don't you take leave? If you got that then your work year would be 10.5 months .....Statistics...damn lies etc...

[GreenOnGo]

If you somehow manage to get your promised 42 days leave each year, you do 1 day SEP, 1 day CRM, 2 days RTGS, 4 days sim which totals 50 days a year. That leaves 315 days for work, which is a little over 10 months. So, if you are doing 900 hours a year, then you are doing just under 90 hours a month. As stated.

Then there is the issue of moving goal posts regarding leave bidding; late release of initial bid and unsuccessful secondary bids, plus lack of roster satisfaction, and the picture is a little less rosy.

I can attest to the abuse of the leave system which uses short, unasked for leave periods to use up owed leave, while still getting a more than productive month. These leave periods, also often preceded or followed by ULRs, to further put a kink in the system.

What's not to love?:ugh:

[GreenOnGo]

Contacted, you seem happy, and that is all that matters. Enjoy. Personally, I find the manipulated leave awards a drag. Being "awarded" leave in short periods that weren't requested, and then doing a full month of flying, is not cool.

Some have better luck with rosters than others, but if a straw poll of my friends and colleagues is any reflection, there is far too much post-bid manipulation. We can't all just be unlucky.

Personally, I would happily do 900 hours a year, and have done, if I could just have some bidding success. Why make it difficult with manual insertions in the middle of requested days off? This bunch are too scared of losing control. Whatever that means.

[Woopoops]

Add to that swap system that doesn't allow you to do anything and you've got even rosier picture. Can't get better than that.

[Alconguin Crusader]

Factor in (no not the dreaded Factoring) not getting paid for vacation, sick time, all the sim time and SEP days mentioned above and we are working pretty damn hard for no pay. Plus going north of 900 hours. We are a bargain to the company. Could be why no Widebody pilots come to EK. I take that back some do, most don't.
It is good for Ryanair pilots though.

[Mister Warning]

Don't worry boys and girls. The less leave days you are awarded, the more days available to get to 900 hours. So you're actually working less hard.
Of course, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
MW.

[harry the cod]

AC

What a ****e Company eh, when they have the audacity not to pay you for taking vacation or sick leave. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should resign and join EK. Don't seem to remember anytime throughout my 11 years here when my monthly pay had deductions for vacation or sick? I admit that I didn't receive flight pay but hey....I wasn't flying! Still got a bloody good basic salary at the end of each month though.

Or maybe you do work for EK but just like to vent ignorant and inaccurate rants. Please don't let me stop you as I might be accused of being management or drinking Kool Aid or taking pills or any other disposition that may result in support for this Company from time to time!

Now, if you stuck with the SIM, SEP, CRM and requirement to complete 'Distance Learning' in your own time, then i'd be in agreement. That pisses me off no end. This month has 87 hours but not included is 2 days of non credit so in effect i'm doing 98. That should be 6 hours of overtime but I get sweet f**k all. I know where you're coming from, but arguments need to be factual and accurate if they're to hold any credibility! :ok:

Harry

[Mister Warning]

Harry I think AC meant that leave, sick days, ground days etc do not count towards your credit hours.... no?

[Alconguin Crusader]

Harry why don't you start acting like an International pilot.
There is no sick pay here. When I call in sick the company tries to put another trip in my schedule so I can fly over 90 hours every month.
There is no vacation pay here. I had a month where I had 7 days vacation and 3 days of my PPC. So with 10 days out of the month I should fly 1/3 less that month for a total around 60 hours. Well I flew 89 hours! Where is the vacation pay Harry? Where is the credit for company days?
What is the point in burning my vacation days if I am going to fly a full month anyway?
You should look around the Industry Harry. Not too many International pilots would consider Emirates a "bloody good salary" but it is probably good for you after working at the ****e charter company you worked for.
How many International pilots are applying to EK? If Emirates was so good we would have a ton of those pilots applying but instead we just have Ryanair pilots wanting to come.

[harry the cod]

AC

Look around the industry? Maybe that's a question you should be asking yourself. I guess the answer's obvious or else you wouldn't still be here after all these years eh!

What's the matter, too late to go back in the right seat at Delta? ;)

Harry

[Wizofoz]

A quick search reveals AC has now been bitching for around 8 years.

Thing is, he originally complained that what kept him here was the bond and waiting for his 7 years so he could get his provident fund.

Seriously, AC, have there REALLY been no other opportunities in that time frame?

Your logic is that EK must not be any good because people from other Internationals are not flocking here.

That must mean people ARE flocking to other internationals.

Why don't you join them?

[Alconguin Crusader]

I didn't know I would cause such consternation to you two management pilots! What a lot of time you have on your hands to look up my record. So not everyone flies 90 plus hours a month at Emirates? I guess I should join the management ranks so I can fly less and have more time for me.
Since you two fine gentlemen told me to leave I better get right on that. Sorry for trying to raise the T&C here to better reflect International standards. I am sorry as well that you think it is so good here. With that attitude we will never get what we deserve.
Harry, at least I could get hired from a company like Delta and we know why Wiz couldn't get hired at Qantas. What is your excuse? Oh yeah you think this is a great airline.

[Wizofoz]

Seriously AC, what do you think it says about YOU that you've spent eight years saying how much you hate not only your job, but also the place you live, yet you're STILL HERE??

Simple question, how many other jobs have you applied for in that time? If EK and Dubai is as bad as you say, SURLEY better alternatives have been available? Hell, in that time you could have gotten an MBA and done something entirely different with your life.

I know forums like this become confrontational, but I genuinely feel sorry for you- what is it that has kept you here this long if you are that miserable?

[nakbin330]

FFS, why don't you a-holes bicker via pm???

[Oblaaspop]

AC,

Genuine question mate which I hope you can answer in an open, calm an honest way....

I've been scouring the internet to see what the Delta pay rates are and there seems to be a disconnect between your assertions and what I can find:

I notice that the maximum B747/B777 Capt pay rate is $254 per hour (is this correct?)
The guarantee is 65 hours per month (which I guess is useful if you break your leg or worse).
The pension contribution is 9%.
There is an hourly increase of $6 per hour overtime (over 65 hours?).
It doesn't mention minimum days off (is there a minimum over the regulatory?)

These are genuine figures I have retrieved from a couple of pilot pay websites so please let us know if they are wildly incorrect (but please state your source).

Looking at the above, it appears broadly similar to what I'm on having been here about 10 years:
Just looked at my pay over the last year in HR direct and I've made circa $240,000. Now, I'm NOT management (most of them earn less than us for your info), but I do take the housing allowance (so the company can pay off MY mortgage) and it includes my training pay.
Now I'm guessing TAX in the US is around 25%?? This would mean I've earned around $330k equivalent (notice I haven't included school allowance etc).

Now, clearly this is just a financial argument above and doesn't take into account the fact that I've been working my arse off (I'll translate: ass), and there is no doubt that Delta is a better job in that (and no doubt other) respects, but let's not kid ourselves, none of us (you included old bud), are young enough to join Delta at the bottom of the list and make senior B777 scales in the remainder of our lifetimes!

Like I said, the above is what I have managed to dig up and the questions I've asked are genuine. I'm not suggesting for one minute that we shouldn't get a decent raise especially in view of how hard we work and how much profit the company makes, but I urge you to respond calmly and factually.

Thanks

[Alconguin Crusader]

I don't know the specifics of Delta airlines. I do know that having worked at both a major airline and Emirates that there really is no comparison between the two and pilots that do try to compare probably have never worked at a major.
One can cite figures and salaries but you can not put a figure on the treatment and other contractual items that are buried in the contracts.
I know the majors still have International pay, Jr Manning, Overtime pay, Call out pay, Sick pay, vacation pay, Equipment Sub pay and on and on. Emirates has none of the above.
Some of the figures cited in previous posts I think are low. I know my friends say that the Defined Benefit Plan (they have no pension, they voted to give it up) are somewhere around 16% and keep in mind their salaries are much higher than ours. Also not mentioned is the amount of days major pilots work. You would be hard pressed to find a major pilot who works much more than double digit days.
So combine that as an Emirates pilot I work 25% to 30% more than a major pilot that alone covers the tax implications in itself. Also the days worked and the impossible topic of Treatment and there really is no comparison.
Regardless of what you think of the US or Europe I am sure the vast majority of Emirates pilots would much rather be living in those continents than in Dubai.
When I made my mistake in coming to Emirates one of the things not factored (Factoring keeps rearing its ugly head) is how much it costs to set up here and close down here. Yes I could go other places but isn't it more cost beneficial to try and raise EK standards and pay?
But through all the arguments back and forth I can't help but to focus on who Emirates is hiring. If Emirates was such a great airline why aren't we getting the International Widebody pilots? Surely some FOs would consider EK if it was cost beneficial. The Marketplace is the final arbitrator.

[BDD]

DELTA AIR LINES PAYSCALES
CAPTAIN PAY SCALE (Hourly)
Year 777 747-4 787 A330 767-4 757 767 737-9 737-7 737-8 A319 A320 MD88 MD90 717
12 263 263 251 248 248 219 219 212 210 210 203 203 200 200 190
11 261 261 249 246 246 217 217 210 209 209 202 202 198 198 188
10 259 259 247 244 244 215 215 208 207 207 200 200 196 196 186
9 256 256 246 242 242 213 213 207 206 206 199 199 193 193 185
8 254 254 244 240 240 211 211 205 204 204 197 197 192 192 183
7 252 252 242 239 239 209 209 204 203 203 196 196 190 190 182
6 250 250 240 237 237 208 208 202 201 201 194 194 188 188 181
5 248 248 238 235 235 206 206 201 200 200 193 193 186 186 180
4 246 246 236 233 233 205 205 199 198 198 191 191 185 185 178
3 245 245 234 231 231 203 203 198 197 197 190 190 183 183 177
2 243 243 233 230 230 202 202 196 195 195 187 187 182 182 175
1 241 241 231 228 228 200 200 195 194 194 186 186 180 180 173

FIRST OFFICER PAY SCALE (Hourly)
Year 777 747-4 787 A330 767-4 757 767 737-7 737-8 737-9 A319 A320 MD88 MD90 717
12 179 179 172 169 169 150 150 144 144 144 139 139 136 136 130
11 177 177 170 168 168 148 148 142 142 143 138 138 135 135 129
10 176 176 169 166 166 146 146 141 141 142 136 136 133 133 127
9 174 174 166 164 164 144 144 139 139 140 135 135 131 131 126
8 172 172 165 163 163 142 142 138 138 139 133 133 130 130 124
7 168 168 161 159 159 139 139 135 135 135 130 130 127 127 122
6 164 164 157 155 155 136 136 131 131 132 127 127 123 123 118
5 160 160 152 150 150 132 132 128 128 129 124 124 119 119 115
4 156 156 149 147 147 129 129 125 125 126 121 121 116 116 112
3 152 152 145 143 143 126 126 122 122 123 117 117 114 114 110
2 130 130 125 123 123 108 108 104 104 105 101 101 98 98 94
1 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68 68
PAY CALCULATOR (Click and drag the sliders)
Pay Rate: $150
Credit Time: 75 Hours
Bid Periods: 1
Percentage: 1
$11,250
PAY NOTES
Monthly guarantee: 65 hours
Reserve guarantee: 72-80 hours (yearly average of 75:30)

International Override Pay:
$6.50/hr Capt
$4.50/hr FO

Most junior captain hired: Dec 1997 (MD88/NYC)

Future contractual pay raises: Jan 2014 (3%), and 2015 (3%)
PER DIEM
$2.10/hr (dom)
$2.60/hr (intl)
RETIREMENT
401K:

2% (DAL contribution; no pilot match required)

401K Matching: Yes

A/B Fund:

Premerger NWA: frozen/Premerger DAL: none/12%

Other:

As of 12/31/13, contributions to the former NWA pilots targeted Defined Benefit Plan stop. Further, the Delta Pilot Defined Contribution Plan rolls into the DPSP, Delta Pilots Savings Plan (defined contribution type plan). DAL contributes 15% to the DPSP beginning 1/1/14.

Profit sharing

Mandatory retirements:

[fatbus]

So why have all the US pilots not left yet?

[Wizofoz]

but isn't it more cost beneficial to try and raise EK standards and pay?

And you think bitching on PPRUNE is going to achieve that?????

You've been doing it for eight years- how's it working out so far??

If Emirates was such a great airline why aren't we getting the International Widebody pilots?

No one said it was a GREAT airline T&C wise, we all just can't work out why you're still here spreading misery.

To answer your question, do you not see the irony in your wondering why they don't leave THEIR Internationals, when you won't leave YOURS???

[harry the cod]

BDD

Thanks for all the info. Ironically, if I were to try to obtain that kind of info from our EK HR, I'd be met with a " sorry, can't publish the pay scales as our competitors may use that to their advantage" Really?

AC

I see where you're coming from, I really do but you can't compare these US legacy carriers. There are many ex Delta guys here who've been truly screwed by DL and have lost their life retirement. EK is far, far from perfect but you take it for what it is. Time spent writing to upper management would be more beneficial than ranting on here. It's a good way to vent but it achieves little.The Ryanairs and so forth will still come regardless because their lot is less than ours and so it goes on. Emirates will always offer a package that ensures a balance of retainment and recruitment.

Unfortunately, they have that balance off to a fine art!

Harry

[Likeitis]

The Delta rates are a bit low because they don't factor in the raise of Jan 14. Top is around $271 now. Most people can expect another 10% in soft pay. Also DC fund is 16%.

Biggest benefit though is QOL. At EK there is very little in my opinion because if you can't have any predictability or transparency within your day to day life then life just blows. EK gives you a bit of a warm fuzzy when it comes to long term security but day to day life is abysmal and I actually enjoy Dubai.

If any pilot at EK starts any threat briefing without listing the company in and itself as the biggest threat to any flight operation then they are walking around with a blind spot the size of Putin's ego.

[Alconguin Crusader]

Wiz, who is the WE in your post? You and other management pilots on the 3rd floor trying to present a counter balance to pprune?
When you ask how is it working out so far how do we know how much worse it would be if I didn't write to management (you probably see my emails) , voice my displeasure at wash ups and try to raise the pay and T&C. It is hard to prove a negative.
I agree with Harry's balance arguement with how Emirates recruits.

[Wizofoz]

I am NOT a management pilot.No I have never seen your emails. You really do yourself no favours when you adopt a position where anyone who points out a flaw in your arguments must have an ulterior motive.

I will and do point out where I think EK is doing the wrong thing, could be better, and when asked try and honestly give people advice about whether EK would be a good place for them to come (I have given the advice "no" more then once.).

But for now it suits me, and I am simply trying to get my head around someone who would obviously hates the airline and the place, yet is still there eight years later.

I've ALSO emailed management on what I saw were problems and shortcomings- I've been listened to and i suppose I added to the chorus, but if your MO is you are staying because we can force fundamental change, you are sadly mistaken.

You made a mistake coming to EK? Well, it's one that could be remedied (could have been almost a decade ago) and you've chosen not to.

I think after that time, staying qualifies as a choice.

[emratty]

How long would it take to get in to the LHS of a 777 in Delta or equivalent carrier in N America?

[glofish]

And while you guys give each other flak, the first DEC course from QF started today. :cool:

[harry the cod]

emratty

Valid point, however you have to remember that unless you're an Emirati, you will already be joining with experience. By defacto, you'll have spent time on a seniority list which now counts for nothing as you start over again.

That's why EK suitability is so subjective. 10-15 years ago a vast majority of new F/O's were highly experienced and ex commanders. Now it's 2500 hour ex low cost guys in their late 20's. Time to command is longer now so the requirement to recruit lower hours is a must. Nobody with 7000 hours total time in the left seat will look at EK as a good career move when you're now looking at another 6-7 years to get your command back. Add to that the luck of which fleet happens to be expanding at the time and it's not the job it was a decade ago.

As an aside, I have to say that generally the standard of most lower hour guys have been good, they're keen and switched on with competent handling skills. Quite refreshing actually!

Harry

[Wizofoz]

And while you guys give each other flak, the first DEC course from QF started today.

Are you sure about that?

[Tight Seat]

Check the date . April 1st

[Wizofoz]

DDDDUUUHHHHH!!!

Ya got me!!!!!

[glofish]

A little fun amidst the miserable fleet facts. :ok:

[falconeasydriver]

And while you guys give each other flak, the first DEC course from QF started today.

And I recently passed my command course….:cool::}

[atpcliff]

Delta pay is less, but you work less.

Talked to a DAL senior 747 captain. He is making full pay. He flies about 120 hours per year. Does all his landings in the sim as he basically does not land the plane...gives them away to his FOs. He has one trip to Asia per month, probably works about 8 days/month.

Another guy (much more junior) was on about the equivalent of 1/2 pay in 2012. Was -777 in JFK. He flew less than 50 hours for the year. I think he is FO. Has a BIG side business.

[SOPS]

I'm not saying that flying 120 hours a year is not a great job....but can it be sustained? I really wish it could..but....?

[ekwhistleblower]

It is easy to get into a numbers comparison but QOL is really the issue. Working for DAL you can pick where you live, working for EK you live in Dubai. In the States you can get more bang for your buck. In Dubai there is no real competition, Sharaf charge the same as E-Max, all the restaurants charge the same inflated prices for the same meals and booze.

I don't mind Dubai but it is starting to warm up so my love hate relationship is about to change. I am sure, were I on an equivalent salary in the States, I would be better off financially, morally and QOL wise than I presently am sitting in the sandpit.

Anyway a silver lining, In Europe they are whinging about poor air quality and health effects due to Saharan sand, thank goodness we don't have any if that here..........

[fatbus]

Why is it a thread about QF DEC's is now focused on US carriers namely DL. If y'all left would we still suffer the thread drift? Worked with anamercian the other night and to put it lightly it was painful. I finally had to say " you are driving yourself nuts , just leave and shut up"

[JAARule]

^ Now that's funny, Pardner...!