Flight time logging without Type Rating

[Goose9]

Hi everybody

I'm just after type rating training for new chopper and now waiting for TR to be filled in my licence by my Aviation Office.
The question is about flight time logging.The insurance policy state that pilot should have at least 30h on type before he can fly as PIC if not , he can only fly as CO-PILOT.
my simulator training was 8 h , flight training was 5 h so total time is 13 h - this are my calculations
If I still have no TR in licence (procedure take about 1 mth) but physicaly I'm type rated because I passed final check and receive all documencts from training organisation and immediately relay it to Aviation Office , can I fly as CO-PILOT and log this time to my logbook or until my TR appear in my licence my flight time can not be logged ?

thanks

[Arm out the window]

I thought this was going to be about flight following some kind of tail rotor failure, silly me!

[GoodGrief]

The law says you have to have your licence in physical posession. Flying now without that piece of paper is illegal.
There is no co pilot flying on singles.
Your licence will state PIC.You'll either have to fly under supervision of a properly rated and accepted pilot or find another helicopter that is properly insured.

Last option is a change of insurance policy, that usually comes with a higher premium.

If all the above fails, you're f***ed.

[hueyracer]

Simulator-Time does NOT count towards "Total Flight time"-if your insurance would accept Sim-Time, that´s fine…but i doubt that they do.

Even in the AW139 course (completely done on Sim), the regs require to do (i believe) 10 hours in the aircraft AFTER receiving the TR to be able to legally fly it…

Regarding the type rating-i see this different.

From the moment you pass the rating, you get a piece of paper.
Your type rating will expire 12 month after the date shown on that piece of paper.
If it takes 1 month to issue your new license, you would only have a TR for 11 month-that does not sound "right"..

I had the occasion where my old rating was lapsed, but i had to do a ferry, so went to do a check ride, and called the CAA.
With their approval (a written statement), my old license (and the "expired rating" on it) and the check ride form i could then do the ferry…..

[tu154]

As with everything in aviation, it depends. In this case, on the issuing authority.
In EASA land, UK CAA specifically, you can't fly the type until it has been issued on your physical licence. Regardless of how long that process takes.

[Ready2Fly]

According to ARA.FCL.215 you can:

Applicant may be allowed to exercise his privileges for 8 weeks after successful completion of an examination – pending the endorsement on the licence

However, on the UK CAA skill test form, it does not say so...

[tu154]

ARA.FCL.215
'The competent authority may develop procedures to allow privileges to be excercised by the certificate or licence holder, for a maximum period of 8 weeks after successful completion of the applicable examination(s)' pending endorsement on the licence or certificate'.

So slightly different wording, I got it from http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:100:0001:0056:en:PDF

In the past, the UK CAA did not have a 'developed procedure', unless this has changed under EASA?

[TeeS]

Germany have introduced a system to allow this eight week period of exercising the privileges of the type rating and I believe one or two other european states have also done so. We are still trying to encourage our authority to progress in this direction!

Cheers

TeeS

[Um... lifting...]

How bizarre.

In FAA-land, a temporary certificate (a hand-written paper document with all valid ratings including the new TR) is issued to the airman on the spot, and the old permanent certificate (a plastic card) is given to the inspector for return to the FAA for issue of a new permanent certificate.

The FAA is required by regulation to issue a new permanent certificate within 120 days. The temporary certificate is valid for the entire period and is valid to present to any inspector anywhere in the world during that time.

Which is how it should be.

And the replacement cost for a new certificate (should you lose yours) is $3.

That is also how it should be.

[tu154]

That is indeed, how it should be. Another part of the expensive and unaccountable EASA debacle. Not that it was great before...

[Rick777]

I used to think the FAA was really messed up until I started reading pprune. Now it looks like a well oiled machine compared to what pilots in Europe have to deal with.

[Ready2Fly]

FAA is for pilots
EASA is for bureaucrats (aka bean counters)

:}

[jymil]

Don't get too technical here guys. Passing the skill test is the final requirement for getting a type rating, the rest is just bureaucracy delay until you get the licence. The licence will also feature the date of your skill test and not the date of when it was issued. Therefore I see nothing wrong with logging PIC directly after the the line in which the examiner signed "skill test passed".

In EASA land, Copi can only be logged on multi crew-certified helis. The original post didn't state which TR was done, so this may or may not be possible. Also, your insurance might have another definition of what's considered being PIC or Copi than EASA has. For instance, an insurance may just require another typerated pilot with more experience to act as safety pilot. In this case, you can still log PIC in your logbook because you are the one doing the actual flying.