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Andy_P
16th Feb 2014, 01:46
A few people have asked me to provide updates on my training, from the point of view of someone who has a fear of flying, so I thought I would spawn a new thread for it. Perhaps it may even help a few other along too. I will split up my initial post over a couple of posts, cause I think it will be too much.

A few years back, I would not even step into a commercial jet. I was just too scared. A completely irrational fear I know, but if you have not experienced it yourself, its impossible for others to understand. I guess this is why we call it an irrational fear. I love aviation, have always been interested in it, but just to scared to pursue the interest.

So eventually, I was forced to overcome this fear or lose my job, so I had to get onto a plane. So with much protest I eventually did. You become so overcome with fear, that it makes you physically sick, you nerves are shot, you start sweating profusely, you feel like you need to throw up. Even breathing becomes labored and difficult. Anyway, I survived. I am sure the metal on the seat handles of that 737-800 is now permanently deformed, and probably still has my fingernail marks in it. You have to give credit to the flight crew when dealing with people like me, they do a fantastic job of alleviating your fears and making you comfortable. A few stiff drinks before hand also helped me. I was not drunk when I first stepped on a plane, I think that would make things worth, but a little social lubricant does help. maybe 2 standard drinks!

Step forward a few years, I had made many flights between Brisbane and Sydney/Melbourne for work. I even took a few holidays, including one to Cairns. It was during that holiday I decided to step up the challenge. We were out on a boat trip to the great barrier reef, and they offered helicopter scenic flights. So I signed up. Getting into that heli brought back all my initial fears. I was petrified to the point were I was almost about to get back out. But I pulled myself together and off we went. Once you are up there, a good pilot will soon make you forget your fears. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Work eventually saw me mixing it up in smaller aircraft flying out to regional areas. Spend time in Dash 8's, Metroliners, Kingairs and various other small twin engine aircraft. I become a regular commuter on aircraft, even at times doing the monday friday commute between Brisbane and Sydney. I have become so used to it now, that it does not worry me anymore. I still have the nerves, I still get sweaty palms, but I can get on an aircraft and relax to some degree.

Fast forward to last Jan. I took a trip to New Zealand, and chartered a helicopter to fly my wife and I out to Milford sound and around (and on) a few of the glaciers. The helicopter was an R44, and it was this trip that convinced I need to make the next step. As I said before, I was always interested in Aviation, so I decided to make the next step. I just wasn't quite sure when it would happen.

My other hobbies are motorcycle riding, and sailing. Apparently a lot of pilots also like motorcycles and sailing, and often do one or the other or both. It was my pursuit of motorcycling that would eventually lead me to taking that step into becoming a pilot. About march last year, I was out riding my trail bike (solo) and I have a pretty good crash. I thought I had just sprained my knee, but it was hurting pretty bad so I got my wife to take me to hospital that night. Turns out I had fractured my tibia in about 5 places, and ruptured my ACL. I had surgery about 6 weeks later to fix it all up, but sailing and riding was going to be impossible for the next 12 months. I was good enough to walk after about 3 months, and decided this was the time to go for a trial flight.

Yup, those fears came straight back again, but it was no where near as bad as that first time I stepped onto that commercial aircraft 10 years ago. Nevertheless, I was scared, but I sat in the left seat, and once were were at a 1000' I got to take over and fly the plane. Once you discover how easy it is, most of your fear dissipates. I flew the plane until we turned on base leg, when the pilot took over. Fear back again, the landing was scary, but not like I had expected.

So I am hooked at this point. I just need the thumbs up from my surgeon to fly and start training. That came a couple of months later, September 2013 IIRC.

Now the fun stuff begins. I am still scared, every take off and landing, I get sweaty palms, my breathing becomes a little labored. You get that sick feeling in your stomach. But I am flying, and enjoying it. Doing the basic stuff, straight and level, turns, climbing and descending is all pretty straightforward. Steep climbs make me nervous, in fact still do today. But all in all things are going well.

Enter stall training. Not good, not good at all. For someone who has that fear of flying, a plane falling out of the sky is not an easy thing to deal with. That point were the aircraft becomes completely stalled, and that brief feeling of weightlessness is pretty intense for the first time. I have felt that before, in commercial flight where the plane has hit turbulence and dropped a couple of hundred feet (if that) but nothing prepares you for it when you in the pilots seat. This is where a good instructor makes life a lot easier. I didn't like my instructor at first, I though he was a pompous ****, but I really appreciated him after this. He turned out to be a pretty good guy, and I was completely wrong with my opinion. It took me about 3 hours in total to do basic stalls. Most people (especially younger lads) would have this stitched up in an hour. I walked away with the ability to recover a stalled aircraft, but I was still scared of stalls.

With all the basic stuff covered off, its time to start doing circuits. By now, I had done my medical, but because of chronic asthma, there is a delay whilst CASA ponders my case. Not a problem, got plenty of time yet. So I am still scared, take off and landing still make me nervous, but each time I fly it becomes just that tiny little bit easier. The great thing about the circuit, especially in the early parts is that your workload is so high, you dont have a lot of time to be scared. You just do what you have to, and keep flying. This is the time I decided to pop up on pprune. Been reading stuff on here for ages, and a lot of google searches end up pointing here. I am starting to get frustrated with the round out and hold off not working for me, wondering if I will ever get it. Then a post here, a few good pointers I nailed it the following week (Thanks pprune!!).

Finally, I get to that point where I am ready to go solo in the circuit. But it turns out that my previous stall training has not been signed off on (the instructor I did my stall training with was only a casual), so out to the training area we go again. This time, they CFI decided I can start on advanced stalls, as this will cover off the basics. They know I have done it before, so a bit of revision on the simple stalls and they will sign off on it. But we also start some advanced stuff. Stalls whilst climbing, stalls whilst descending, turning stalls, then mix it all up. Then incipient stalls. The instructor demo's this spin recovery, but it scared the hell out of me so much so that I refuse to have a go on the day. I need to go back and digest it all first.

So the day comes around, I finally solo. When you first do a solo circuit, all that fear comes back again. But you push on, and you are so busy you dont have time to digest it. I did one full stop and that was it for the day. But you walk away, still shaking, but smiling. Finally I have flow a plane by myself. I have taken off and landed by myself. Its a great feeling. And for someone like me who is so scared of flying, its just so much bettered knowing you have tamed your fears finally, well almost. But for that little moment, you just dont care about the fears that are still there.

I know the inevitable is coming. I have to master 2 things that have been demonstrated to me to date. Steep turns (I only have to do 45 degree turn for my GFPT, but this becomes 60 degree for my PPL). Both have scared me a lot, and I dont like it all. I still dont like stalls either.

My last flight was bad. Practicing crosswind circuits in gusty 15-20knot winds. I did a go around after hitting some chopper upwash that screwed up my final. About midway down the runway, I got hit by a large gust that rolled the plane over about 30-45 degrees. It happened pretty quickly and violently. The instructor took over and I told him I had had enough for the day. I was a bit rattled by the whole experience. We landed and I walked away wondering if I am making the right decision to pursue my licence. This comes at a good time, because I have to go for another minor operation on my knee. I keep up the study anyway, and put that little incident to the back of my mind.

Today comes about. By now I have written off my little fright and some good solid experience. I did not die, so it cant be that bad. Just goes to show how stable the C172S is. Its another one of those days, blowing 20-25knots. I expect more crosswind circuits, but the instructor says nope, we are going off to do incipient stalls. I really don't want to do this. I am thinking how I can get out of it. That same fear is coming back again. I feel sick. But I go up anyway. Fortunately, this instructor is really good at allaying your fears. I cant speak highly enough of him.

We get to the training area and start off with a few clean stalls, then a few stalls with flaps down. Then I ask him to demo a 60 degree turn, I can handle that but I cant handle the incipient stall, I am just delaying the inevitable. So we do the turn, then I have a go. I manage a couple of 45 degree turns, and even one pushing 60. I am feeling pretty good now, confidence is up. FI demos a incipient stall. I still dont want to do it, but he encourages me to have a go by suggesting we will just do a real gentle one. So I have a go. Done. I have another go, done. Have a third go, done. No major fear at all. I say that sitting here typing thinking about it, and my palms are all sweaty. But today I managed some standard stalls, with out any major component of fear at all, and I also manged incipient stalls!

Today I am happy, defeating that incipient stall feels just as good as that first solo. I was so afraid of doing, but I have come to the realisation that its pretty harmless. I know I can go out there and do some more stalls now, and the idea does not scare me at all.

So we move on. I still need another hour of solo circuits. I nearly have the crosswind stuff sorted. So I am moving forward at a good pace now. Just got to do a little more advanced takeoff and landing, precautionary search and landing, and some basic instrument training and I should be able to do the area solo.

I also passed my area solo exam today. 90% pass. The 2 questions I got wrong were an engine related one which I genuinely did not know. the other was regarding turns and forces, and had the concept right, I just did not interpret the answer correctly. See folks, they say you should go reread all your answers when doing exams, had i done so I would have had a 95% pass!

So my fears are subsiding, and my confidence is growing. I decided to write this here on pprune, because hopefully others will go to google and might get directed here for help on fear of flying. I have certainly taken a lot from here, so perhaps here is my opportunity to provide a little back. Hopefully in the years to come I will be able to provide more assistance, as I gain experience!

Thanks for listening.

India Four Two
16th Feb 2014, 05:42
Andy,

I'll chip in while Europe is waking up. Very well done and thanks for writing it up so candidly. I'm sure this will help others who also have fear of flying.

You seem to be managing by having some amazing willpower. I hope things get better for you. Two things I will mention. One is to try to have your instructor talk you through an exercise rather than demo it first. Sitting through a demo, if you already have sweaty palms, is not going to help. I knew a very experienced CFI in Canada who told me that he would talk an ab-initio student through their very first takeoff in a 152!

Secondly, as you have noticed, it helps to approach stalls by degrees (pardon the pun). I used to introduce glider students to stalls by just slowing to the beginning of the buffet and then easing off. It does wonders for their confidence.

I've never had the kind of issues that you have had, but I do remember after flying for about 20 years, I developed an uneasy feeling if I was in an airliner cabin and couldn't see out of the front. I was fine if I was in a jumpseat! Completely irrational I know, and it eventually went away.

I used to live in Brisbane and flew a little there. Are you flying from Archerfield?

Motorcycles, yachts and aeroplanes. :ok:

PS When you say "incipient stalls", do you mean "incipient spins"?

Aphrican
16th Feb 2014, 05:56
If we are honest with ourselves, I think that we have all had moments in our training / early experience where we have been a bit afraid even if we are not scared of flying.

I have had five so far in my 2 and a bit years of flying : my first solo flight into controlled airspace, my first full spin in a Citabria (with an instructor), chopping power from 100% to 50% while turning from crosswind to base in a Cirrus to maintain a reasonable speed in the pattern full of 172s etc (with an instructor but it just feels unnatural), testing eTAWS by aiming at a mountain (with an instructor) and the appropriately named Rocks2 VFR departure out of KVGT.

I found that 3 hours of "gentleman's aero" work in a Citabria (very steep turns, quick stall recovery, spins, loops and rolls while learning what the rudder is actually there for) helped me a lot with fast but smooth manipulation of the controls to the "stops".

I would highly recommend some "gentleman's aero" in an aerobatic taildragger in the first 100 hours or so for everyone.

porterhouse
16th Feb 2014, 06:34
Andy - your fears of deep stalls or sharp banking turns resonate with me, I think all novice pilots go through similar experiences.

Andy_P
16th Feb 2014, 09:43
I used to live in Brisbane and flew a little there. Are you flying from Archerfield?

Motorcycles, yachts and aeroplanes.

PS When you say "incipient stalls", do you mean "incipient spins"?

I am flying out of Redcliffe, and I cant be happier with the staff at the Aero Club there. I have read some stories about them, both good and bad, but as a training org I am really happy with them. I am yet to fly with an instructor that I dont like, or dont get on with. And you can choose who you fly with, but I like mixing it up with instructors because they all add so much value to my flying.

When I say incipient stalls, well, we call then incipient spins in Australia. I have been questioned when I called it a spin, and I think the US folk call it an incipient stall, because its not a fully developed spin. Eitherway, its a power on, wing drop stall that is developing into a spin.

Andy - your fears of deep stalls or sharp banking turns resonate with me, I think all novice pilots go through similar experiences.

I am sure it's tough for any new pilot, and I dont doubt that. But add to that that fear of flying and I am sure its something alltogether different. Like I said, its hard to describe unless you have been there. It actually makes you physically sick.

Fear keeps you alive, but irrational fears can do the exact opposite. I was adamant from the very beginning, if I was not able to deal with it, or I was not getting the flying part, then I wanted the instructors to tell me and I will walk away. Its like anything, put your mind to it and anyone can do it, but this does not mean you will be a good pilot. I want to be a good pilot, but if I cant, then I want to be told, and I want to walk away from it. If that irrational fear stops me from being able to deal with a real life situation, then I need to cut my losses and give it all away. So far, I feel I am just keeping on top of it. I keep asking the question of my instructors, but I know its just a half arsed way of making the excuse to get out of it. Dont ask me why, I dont know. When I am up there, I love it.

I would highly recommend some "gentleman's aero" in an aerobatic taildragger in the first 100 hours or so for everyone.

You are not the first person to suggest this, but I honestly think it will do more harm than good at this point. I am progressing well at the moment, and I really dont need to be frightened!! I think they guys at the club just nursing me into stuff at the moment is the best way for me.

Pace
16th Feb 2014, 10:34
Andy

The biggest fear is fear of the unknown so the less unknown there is the less fear!
We had a guy who posted a while back that he was scared of stalling especially practicing stalls on his own!
It emerged that his real fear was getting into a situation where he went beyond recovery at incipient and ended up in a full stall / wing drop / spin / spiral dive !
That is why it is important to confront those fears!
Feel the fear and do it ! Is a well known phrase!
Do go up with a good aerobatic instructor and throw the aircraft around to your hearts content!
I stress the words hearts content as a lot if fear is negative thought!
If you approach the exercise thinking " I am going to enjoy this! I don't care what happens ! If I get killed no more worries ; ) you will relax!
Just tell yourself the aerobatic exercise will be fun fun fun !

Fear is natural it's our attitude of what if which causes the problems!

I had to land a Citation in 80 kt winds a few days ago !
I had awful wing drops and speed fluctuations from 170 Kts to 120 kts
Was I fearful ? Yes of course
What if the jet gets slammed into the. Ground when I reduce speed?
All manner of thoughts
You throw them away ! Make a plan think a way out and get on with it
Don't worry ! FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT


Pace

cockney steve
16th Feb 2014, 10:48
buy and fly a radio control model! despite the "anorak" image, it sharpens the reflexes and apart from (usually) having huge power reserves, they fly the same....."ye can't beat the laws of physics, Jim"

When you actually see, feel and control steep turns, knife-edge and other simple manoeuvers, the full size job is a doddle,
I introduced a pilot-friend to sailing and pointed out that it was 2-dimensional ,slow-motion flying....when it came to Navigation, it's more like time-lapse:}
Congrats on having the willpower to supress and beat your irrational fears....wish I could do the same with spiders (we don't have poisonous ones here, in fact Idon't think we have any bitey ones at all! Iam happy to observe them, as long as the buggers don't scuttle towards me!

India Four Two
16th Feb 2014, 12:52
wish I could do the same with spiders

steve,
You wouldn't like Oz then. ;) When I lived there, I had a wonderful book called Things That Sting. Spiders and snakes featured very prominently! Even the vegetation is out to get you - beware of the Gympie Stinging Tree.

Andy,
It sounds like Redcliffe is a nice place, but I wouldn't fly with too many instructors, nice as they are. Try to pick one who you get on well with. That way he/she will fly with you more often and be more familiar with your skills and will be able to ensure that you are progressing.

I'm pretty sure incipient spin is the term in the US as well. Important to practice and actually quite fun once you are used to them.

Remember to look outside and enjoy the scenery and the sensation of flying. That will help with combatting the fear and sweaty palms.

localflighteast
16th Feb 2014, 14:07
I'm away from my PC at the moment ,so won't be a long post but I couldn't not comment on this.

I think I could have written 90% of what you've written myself. Yep I too have gone from being too scared to get on a plane to flying one on my own.

Even now, after far too many hours , I still get anxious when soloing. Even last week I was on the verge of turning back after dropping off my instructor. I still have to remind myself to breath out there.

Once I do breathe it call comes flooding back,the training ,the ability , the confidence.

What you have done is truly amazing. Learning to fly in itself is a phenomenal achievement , learning to fly when you have been so scared adds a whole other level.

Pace
16th Feb 2014, 15:03
You have to confront any fear to beat it ! There are two ways one is gradual exposure to that fear. Understanding more about your fear subject and being familar with your fear subject!
The other way is saturation exposure ie in the case of stalling stalling in every config and beyond until you no longer fear the manoeuvres!
I believe in the Second World War they had no time to teach people to swim so dumped them in a swimming pool and only pulled them out when they sank to the bottom :E Most swam got over their fears and swam :ok:

Pace

Andy_P
16th Feb 2014, 16:01
The other way is saturation exposure ie in the case of stalling stalling in every config and beyond until you no longer fear the manoeuvres!

Cant say I agree more. I said to my instructor yesterday, that I need to go out to the training area and just spend a couple of hours doing stalls. I am starting to get used to it now, and I think doing more incipient spin recovery will help. Most people would only do a couple of hours of stalls, I think I already have 5-6hours! From now on, we are going to do some stalls at the end of each lesson.


I think I could have written 90% of what you've written myself. Yep I too have gone from being too scared to get on a plane to flying one on my own.

Even now, after far too many hours , I still get anxious when soloing. Even last week I was on the verge of turning back after dropping off my instructor. I still have to remind myself to breath out there.

Once I do breathe it call comes flooding back,the training ,the ability , the confidence.

You were one of the people that PM'ed that also had some fear. There is another person here also. It was actually you two that prompted me to write this out. Someone else also asked me for updates on the training, so I will keep this thread going as I progress.

India Four Two
16th Feb 2014, 16:38
I am starting to get used to it now

Good for you. When you are really comfortable with incipients, you can progress to spinning. ;)

The 172 spins quite nicely and predictably. You'll know you've conquered your fears when you go solo-spinning for fun. :E

Steve6443
16th Feb 2014, 18:39
Overcoming my fear of flying was the reason for my doing my PPL - I have to fly all over Europe on Business and was in a bag of nerves before (and after) each flight. I'd registered for the Lufthansa "fear of flying course" but was told this wouldn't help me, my issue was more a psychological issue, the thought of the pilot making a mistake, a lack of control and was advised to learn to fly, or at least take a few lessons to see whether that would help.

So I took a lesson and although it was hardly "pleasure", I signed up, thought "I can do this" even though every nerve was screaming at me to get out of the plane. I was fighting my fear all through the early lessons, would step out of the plane drenched with sweat - partly from the effort, partly from the fear. It didn't help me that my instructor was nearly 80 and on a few occasions I thought: would I be able to land the plane if he suddenly became unconscious? Only when I felt comfortable with the landing phase did I stop thinking that, however wind was the next issue to contend with - when I had a lesson booked, I would look out the window and see how the trees were moving and hope it would die down before I got flying.

Even now, I can still recall the flight where the wind was no longer something I feared but suddenly flying became something I enjoyed - it was a nasty day, overcast at 2000 feet with winds blowing around 15 knots, around 30 degrees from the side. Nowadays nothing serious, but back then.... I had reached the stage where I had gone solo, now I was due to do solo circuits at 3 different airfields I'd not practiced at and the one I was lined up for was known for it's slope....

The flight there was bumpy as hell, plane being blown all over the place... Finally landed at the airfield, my instructor walked me through what he was expecting me to do and I said "first I'll have a coffee with you". My instructor looked me in the eye and said:

"Steve, I can't force you to go up solo in this weather but if you don't face it, you'll duck out the next time too. Sooner or later, you'll be ducking out more than flying and eventually you'll give up flying. All I can say is that you can handle this and more."

I thought: He wouldn't send me up if he didn't believe I can handle it, so I went up, was planning to do 3 circuits and each one was better than the next, on the final circuit I heard my instructor call out "ok Steve, this one's the last one, so full stop landing please" to which my reply was "must I? can't I do one more circuit?" After that, no more sweaty palms or white knuckles, passed my PPL without further hassle....

Since then, flying is a real pleasure for me, am glad I did my licence, even flying commercial airliners is much more relaxing for me.....

KNIEVEL77
16th Feb 2014, 18:40
Great thread guys.
I'm struggling with steep banking at the minute, my head isn't allowing my hand to move.
I've come to the conclusion exposure therapy is the way forward until it sinks into my head that the aircraft simply isn't going to flip!

olasek
16th Feb 2014, 19:22
I would highly recommend some "gentleman's aero" in an aerobatic taildragger in the first 100 hours or so for everyone.
Some go so far as to suggest parachute jumping for every pilot but most pilots never do that and still are doing fine as pilots.

GBEBZ
19th Feb 2014, 23:12
I found being "current" helped me relax more when flying. Not doing long flights, just flying often, and getting to the point where becoming a pilot becomes like being a driver of a car - jump in, checks, power, lets go...

We dont think twice to jump in the car and hurtle 70mph down the motorway, with many things to hit, but yet we are fearful of flying and controlling a plane (even after 100 hours total time!) and currency is the key (or at least it was for me!).

Also doing the ATPL Ground school - knowledge = confidence (not cockiness, more a knowing)...

Andy_P
20th Feb 2014, 08:48
I am about to board a commercial jet for the first time since I started my training. Guess what? Still got the nerves, how pathetic is that?

Pace
20th Feb 2014, 12:49
I am about to board a commercial jet for the first time since I started my training. Guess what? Still got the nerves, how pathetic is that?

Andy

Oh dear :ugh: Have you thought of going on a course of cognitive behavioural therapy.

My ex wife suffered badly with Agraphobia leaving shopping trolleys in supermarkets etc with feelings of panic and being trapped.
CBT helped her a lot.

Every time you feel nervous it will be negative thoughts or how you felt in the past boarding an Airline kicking in you have to identify those thoughts and negate them with positive ones.

Face the fears and do it anyway. Good luck :ok:

Pace

localflighteast
20th Feb 2014, 13:17
Not pathetic at all. It took me a handful of flights on commercial planes to get comfortable with the idea.

It comes gradually, not all at once.

I'm still a little but nervous but once I settled into my last flight I actually became able to enjoy the view. Although I will admit to spending some of it scoping out possible sites for a forced landing. PPL habits don't die easily.

Give it time and concentrate on the positive. For me it came in steps. One flight I was able to read a book , because I wasn't hanging onto the arm rests with a death grip. The next I was able to doze off and so on.

Concentrate on the improvements!

Andy_P
21st Feb 2014, 00:18
All good. Once I got onto the plane I was right at home! Here in lovely New Caledonia at the moment and a have booking with the local aero club to go up in a Cessna 172S in a couple of hours. Can't wait!

windowshopper2010
21st Feb 2014, 03:02
Andy,

Keep up the good work.

There is a really well run "Fear Of Flying" Course run out of Sydney that is well worth considering. You are doing a great job on your own but I don't think you will truly conquer all you need to in order to help you achieve your goals.
Fear that is "good" is necessary for sure, but an "irrational" fear that could end up holding you back is worth getting outside assistance for.
I think they have courses in Brisbane also and it's run by the Women's Pilot's Association" or similar. Try searching on the web for "Fearless Flyers".
I think it's aimed for travellers but suspect it could be useful with the "cognitive" stuff one of the other posters was talking about.

Good luck with the training.

Andy_P
23rd Feb 2014, 09:13
Well I am proud to say the trip home was uneventful! No real fear this time, other than some sweaty palms! Been talking myself through it all day, telling myself its no different to the Cessna when I am in control. Even observed a good crosswind landing by the pilot when we touched down in Brisbane!

I spent 1.2 hours in the air with the aero club in noumea, in a C172S. I was in control the whole time. Good experience, made a few errors. Coming into land at Noumea Magenta airport they have a displaced threshold due to some mountains. I was about 200ft to low as I turned final (they have really widely spaced circuits due to noise abatement rules) and too low as I landed. I managed to stretch out final, only due to no crosswind, less flap than I am used to and slightly higher approach speed based all on the instructors advice. FWIW, they normally have a solid crosswind, so final is 20º flap and 70knot final.

One thing I still need to deal with is turbulence. After take off from Noumea Magenta, we tracked toward the NE (about 030 IIRC) over some mountains. IT was pretty rough. We are spoiled down at YRED, because its all flat terrain, and whilst you get a few thermals, its not like flying over mountains. So I am still really scared in these conditions, but stepped up to the challenge and just dealt with it! I feel good about it now, things are getting better!

I have another thread about flying in Noumea, I will post up some details there about the club and the fantastic instructor I flew with. Highly recommended. Fying there is a lot like Cairns in Aus, there is lots of coral reefs and small islands to look at. If you are ever there and you want some details, please PM me.

Andy_P
23rd Feb 2014, 10:42
And this is why we do it:

BTW, over water there, most calm, I am calm.

Please resize photos to 800 x 600.


And that is only half of it.

Pace
23rd Feb 2014, 10:54
Andy Superb shots :ok: That water looks delicious :E As an avid Scuba diving enthusiast yum yum :ok:

Pace

Andy_P
23rd Feb 2014, 11:12
Andy Superb shots That water looks delicious As an avid Scuba diving enthusiast yum yum

Pace

Yup, water is good! Being an avid sailor, I feel comfortable over water! Unfortunately, no one will let me scuba dive because I am a chronic asthmatic (CASA had an issue with that too), but I have use a snorkel and seen some great places on the Great Barrier Reef when I use to sail on yachts in the Whitsundays.

When we left Noumea Magenta Airport, I was glad to get over water. Puts my mind and ease, and at low altitudes it makes for more comfortable flying.

Pace
23rd Feb 2014, 11:42
I am a chronic asthmatic (CASA had an issue with that too)

Andy I wonder if this is a clue to your problems with confined spaces rather than a Psychological base as such.

Might be worth posting a question in the Medical section as I am far from an expert but in a light aircraft you have ventilation control and light in a large aircraft you have many passengers, circulated air and no control.

just a thought

Pace

Saab Dastard
23rd Feb 2014, 12:19
Andy, please resize the photographs to no more that 800 x 600 - not everyone has a widescreen panel!

Thanks

SD

JEM60
23rd Feb 2014, 20:02
Many years ago, learning to fly, climbing away for a spinning exercise, I admitted to my instructor that flying scared me a little from time to time. His comment?'Good. Then you will treat it with the respect it deserves' I discovered then that a little fear will keep you safe, much better than complacency!!.

Andy_P
23rd Feb 2014, 22:20
Andy I wonder if this is a clue to your problems with confined spaces rather than a Psychological base as such.

Might be worth posting a question in the Medical section as I am far from an expert but in a light aircraft you have ventilation control and light in a large aircraft you have many passengers, circulated air and no control.

just a thought

Pace

Its a control thing for me. I dont do well in any form of transport as a passenger.


Andy, please resize the photographs to no more that 800 x 600 - not everyone has a widescreen panel!

Thanks

SD

Meh, too much effort.

KNIEVEL77
25th Feb 2014, 17:40
Andy,

What is it do you think that is helping you overcome you fear............is it quite simply 'exposure therapy'?

And I came across this a while ago which I found very interesting.

http://www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf

Andy_P
26th Feb 2014, 01:41
Andy,

What is it do you think that is helping you overcome you fear............is it quite simply 'exposure therapy'?

And I came across this a while ago which I found very interesting.

http://www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf

Its hard for me to say. I think that is the realm of a psychologist. But, if I was to guess, I think perhaps exposure combined with me being forced to deal with the fear using rational thought. I doubt the process that causes the fear will ever go away, but what I am learning to do is find ways for me to manage it, rather than letting the fear manage me.

BTW, its this fear that is holding me back. It took me just over 30 hours to solo, and its going to take me a lot longer than most to get to that point where I am capable of doing my GFTP check flight. But one thing I am more adamant about than my FI's, is that I need to be comfortable with it all, even if they deem me competent. I wont take that check flight until I am happy with myself.

Great article BTW.

kevinb3
28th Feb 2014, 23:35
Nice article but how did you go with your medical ??

Andy_P
1st Mar 2014, 08:00
Nice article but how did you go with your medical ??

I got a class 2 medical, so not as strict as class 1. The only issue I had was due to my asthma, which is classified as chronic mainly due to the drugs I have to use to control it. They did test me for it, and they can tell if your asthma management is under control. Once the DAME does his stuff, it goes onto CASA medical team for review. Obviously they were happy with it, because they issued the medical albeit after bit of a delay.

Andy_P
2nd Mar 2014, 10:36
Good weather today, should have had a chance to finish up my solo circuit work, but nope, could not get my **** together..

I walked away today, typical type a personality trying to figure out what went wrong. Not a single solo circuit, the whole time knowing every single mistake I was making but for some reason unable to correct it. I will dwell on this for weeks to come now.

Pissed off, I get home and dive into my books. Do some revision in stick and rudder. Still not sure. I think as stick and rudder suggests, I am relying to much on landmarks to sense altitude and speed. Not focusing on the aspect of the runway. Speed on final is a big problem too, I think its related. Today, the big difference, I have been landing on 25 a lot, today on 07.

EMB-145LR
2nd Mar 2014, 17:04
Only just stumbled across this thread. It resonates with me a lot. I used to petrified of flying to the extent that I wouldn't get on a commercial flight. I found that simple exposure in baby steps is what helped me to overcome my fear.

Believe it or not I went from being terrified of flying, to being an airline pilot! Today I fly the ERJ-145 in the USA and I'm moving on to the EMB-175 in a few months.

A and C
4th Mar 2014, 13:48
Perhaps someone might be able to help my wallet, it to has a fear of flying but it exhibits this by trying to hide in small dark places each time I walk into a flying club.

Perhaps one of the Psycologists on the forum could help my wallet open up to the experience of flight ?

I was hoping the female touch would work but I think my wife is being far to gentle with my wallets aversion to flying and just seems to encourage the negative behavior towards flight that my wallet exhibits.

Andy_P
6th Mar 2014, 04:47
A an C, my wallet is developing a fear of flying at the moment!!

As for me, finished up my solo circuit work today, and definitely my best circuits and landings yet. Unfortunately, I cant fly twice a week any longer, down to just a day on the weekend. However I have made the call to book the aircraft for a double slot, so an hour dual in the training area then come back and do an hour solo in the circuit. Its working wonders with my confidence at the moment, so I would like to stick with it for a while.

Also got a personal tour of the tower and radar centre for YBBN today. The radar centre takes care of most of Australia's air traffic, as well as a lot of pacific islands. I am yet to work with ATC, but it was great talking to the controllers and learning about how they operate. It's given me a great perspective on how I can interact with them when I start flying in controlled airspace. It was also great to see how the flight plans are used.

Andy_P
9th Mar 2014, 11:42
I must be doing ok in the 172. Today, doing some solo circuits, was behind a guy in the pattern. He flew the worst base and final I have ever seen. I think I would be grounded if I did that with my instructor(s) in the right seat. I slowed right down on downwind, and when I finally turned base I maintained 1000feet. Turned final at 1000 and still nailed the landing! Normally I would be at about 600 feet turning final.

I was chatting to the guy on the ground, he was nervous to go up in the conditions (20 knots, probably abut 5 crosswind). It was testing my limits, but I did 5 circuits with the instructor and he was happy for me to go up solo. Flew another 5 solo before my nerves got the better of me. Very gusty. I was outside of my comfort zone, a good test for me. I had the plane for another 40 minutes, but decided to call it quits. The last thing I need right now is a scare to destroy my confidence, which is currently at an all time high!

Andy_P
16th Mar 2014, 08:20
Not sure if I took a step backwards or forwards today. Early morning flight to learn forced landing, not to bad. Was going to follow up with some solo circuit work, but opted to postpone till the afternoon till some of the seabreeze came in, hoping to get some crosswind practice. Crosswind landings are the only thing now holding me back from a training area solo, and besides some basic instrument flying I am very close to doing my GFPT checkride.

So I trot off home, do some reading, watch a few youtube vids. For those learning crosswind tecnique, I highly reccommend the University of North Dakota videos: The UND AeroCast - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/undaerocast).

Well the sea breeze came in alright. 20 knots gusting 25. Using runway 07, the wind was about NNE (025), so about 14knots of crosswind, gusting (Correct me if I am wrong, did that using my mental crosswind calcs!!). I decided to head back to the aerodrome an hour before my booking to observe some people doing crosswind landings (as I did yesterday also). Anyway, I think that was a stupid move, because all I did was scare myself to the point were I did not want to go up. Yup, that good old feeling came back, making me feel sick. No where near what it used to be like, but still there nonetheless.

But, I convinced myself to go anyway. Yup, still sweating, but I went up and managed about 5 landings before I decided to call it quits. Instructor was pretty happy with me given the conditions, and he was happy for me to keep going. Baby steps, I am getting there. Once in the cockpit, I was not anywhere near as nervous as I was on the ground. I have to stop over thinking this stuff, its not doing me any good, and its not doing my training any good.

My only real issue today was a little to aggressive on the controls, probably holding off a little to long considering the gusts. Also once I had touched down, not enough aileron. When training at this stage, they have me crab down to late final, then side-slip maybe at about 100 feet, if that. Its working well, because I have enough time to fine tune my position and it give me plenty of time to manage gusts as well as get ready for flare and hold off. One thing I can say, that gusty conditions really teach you the need for good footwork. I know Chuck says the C172 is lazy, but its plenty for me at this point. Had I been in a super cub I would have tossed it in long ago I suspect!! I hope Chuck reads this post as I would love to hear his (or anyone elses) thoughts on the difference between the cub and the C172 in this regard.

Anyway, I am not sure if today was a step forward or back. The nerves are a real problem, and days like today make me wonder if I should just call it quits. I know I have to deal with these situations, and fear overtaking my ability to control the aircraft in a emergency worries me no end. I am going to push on at this stage, but I am a realist, so if the time comes where I decide its not working out I wont hesitate to pull the pin.

Andy_P
22nd Apr 2014, 04:41
Managed to get signed off on Steep turns over the easter weekend. Along with incipient stalls, I thought this might hold me back. Only have to do 45 degree turns for GFPT (first stage of PPL in Aus). We tried pushing on to 60 degree (required for PPL) turns but I cant quite deal with the increased g force just yet. I am pretty sure I will get there though, just need to get out and keep trying.


I am starting to feel pretty confident now, really starting to get over the fear. I have done about 5 hours solo time in the circuit which has boosted my confidence a great deal. Recently, every time I go up with the instructor, I book the aircraft for an extra hour of solo circuits afterwards. Add to that conquering steep turns (to the point where I am actually starting to like doing them).

Its odd, the last hour of solo I did yesterday, I was climbing and turning onto crosswind I realised how relaxed I was. I also notice now that I can make my radio calls whilst starting to turn base and final. I used to have to do before I turned, so I could concentrate on flying. ITs all becoming automatic now.

So it just goes to show, it is possible to get over an irrational fear! I continue to surprise myself each time I go up. The more I fly, the more I am developing a unhealthy obsession with it. :ok:

localflighteast
22nd Apr 2014, 12:31
Well done Andy, it is indeed possible to overcome those fears, slowly and surely.

It's good to look back on how much you have achieved. There will be times when you will hit other hurdles and challenges, remember how you were and that you have overcome your difficulties before and you will do so again.

Unfortunately you have also discovered the addictive nature of aviation. You're hooked now, there's no turning back!!!!!

Andy_P
22nd Jan 2015, 08:33
Time to post an update. For those who have not been following the odd thread or 2 I have posted since. I took a break (pun intended) from flying after running into a kangaroo in my motorcycle at 110kph. 8 months later I finally start flying again.

Well today, I checked off the last thing I need to do and that was short field landings. (already done short field take off)

So I have been up in the training area solo a bit lately. Stalling a plane solo, steep turns solo, forced landings solo, prec search and land solo... And this morning, solo STOL!. Not really happy with my steep turns (I cant quite get to 60deg yet) and need a bit more practice with prec search and land, but overall I am pretty happy with where I am, and my instructor is even happier.

The best part, I now have some confidence in my ability. I am not scared everytime I rock up to the airport, I am now looking forward to it. The best thing I did was break my leg again, because that time off has helped clear my mind. My progress since I have returned has been staggering.

I am yet to do my flight test for my RPL (restricted licence), but I am pretty pleased with myself at the moment. I really did not think I would get this far. I am currently doing ground school for my PPL so only flying once a week for the next three weeks, but I intend to fly on a full time basis once I have finished in the classroom. I am hoping to have my full PPL at the end of Feb, but even if that becomes end of March I will be happy.

Now I just need work to stay quiet till the end of March and I am laughing!

Andy_P
22nd Jan 2015, 11:01
Managed to quickly snap this pic heading home from an area solo the other day. First time I have ever taken a pic solo, and in fact I am surprised it worked out given I pretty much grabbed my phone and just pressed the button without really looking! Workload is still to high for me just yet!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2uNw9a_7Vyg/VLiZ8ZIUhgI/AAAAAAAABqg/vgGSXhCmKdc/s640/20150116_111852.jpg

localflighteast
22nd Jan 2015, 12:42
Beautiful shot and nice work on the flying :)