Tri Star bowing out.

[mmitch]

The RAF TriStar has made its last flight from Afghanistan.
It will retire on the 31st March.
TriStar makes final flight in support of Afghanistan operations (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/tristar-makes-final-flight-in-support-of-afghanistan-operations-07022014)
mmitch.

[ShyTorque]

Yet another type for the increasingly sad knackers yard at Bruntingthorpe.

I feel old again, I pre-date them, remember them coming in to service... :ooh:

[Wander00]

There's sad - came back from FI in the third seat for both legs.


Was a member of the Tristar crew quiz team early 86 at MPA (pre RAF Mount Pleasant). Team was always called "If we don't Win, We won't Fly You Home"! On one occasion we did win, which meant beating a hasty retreat from amongst the (very bulky) contractors' personnel, who reckoned we had "stolen" their beer money.

[lasernigel]

Used to fly them a lot as SLF on Gulf air and BA. Wonderful machines though one I flew with Saudi Air aborted 3 take offs from Khamis Mushayt. Slightly concerned on the 4th when we finally got airborne!

Wonder how many hours the last one had on it?

[DC10RealMan]

The last passenger DC10 is also bowing out of service this month.

Real aeroplanes and such a shame!

[Indicating Full]

Wander00

Third seat? Were you standing in for the Flt Engineer :)

[Dengue_Dude]

Much of my flying life was spent in three-holers, both the Tristar and the DC10 of various hues.

Great aircraft, I loved the Tristar more as an office, but the DC10 was probably the better aircraft in a commercial sense.

Sad not to see them flying again, but there are other things in life. I'm just glad I had the time I did.

[Grobling About]

Enjoying a drink with a Tristar Flight Engineer in the Death Star at MPA (1987). Bemoaning the fact that he still wasn't used to other aircraft getting close and plugging in to refuel he went on to say: "When I first joined Transport Command, formation flying was 2 Britannias travelling to Cyprus on the same day."

[WE992]

Bruntingthorpe? One is already at Kemble!

[Onceapilot]

A few points:
Last "trooper" flight does not mean last task into/out/over Afghan.
Flight was reportedly from "middle east hub" not Afghan, this is probably a political fudge, because the FSTA cannot go into Bastion, despite the fact that the TriStar is the best platform for the hostile task.
DD. TriStar is a better flying machine than DC10. Don't worry about seeing them around, the Scottish air force will buy them and show the RAF how make money with them! :eek:

OAP

[Roland Pulfrew]

OAP

because the FSTA can't go into Bastion

I'm not a great fan of the PFI but this:

Bastion (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/raf-voyager-now-operating-afghanistan-flights)

from Dec 13 according to the Govt website suggests otherwise.

[cessnapete]

Saw a piece in USA that Omni the US civil AAR contractor may be interested in them. Ready made AAR assets to add to their portfolio. Mentions less than a £mil for the lot. Cheaper an Omni TriStar on Falklands stby than mega bucks Voyager?

[Lynxman]

Voyager definitely operates into and out of Bastion.

[Onceapilot]

Quote:
Voyager definitely operates into and out of Bastion.

Yes, even a picture of it. Why the political blurb about "direct" when they operate a non-hostile hub then?

OAP

[Top Bunk Tester]

The RAF TriStar has made its last flight from Afghanistan.
It will retire on the 31st March.

Are we absolutely sure about that :=

[Wander00]

IF - depends how you count - probably 4th seat then - but made very welcome by 216. Mind you I recall the flak the RAF, collectively and individually got if Tristar round trip was missed, as was the case after one continued rather further down the glide path than had been intended. Also recall the aircraft carrying the relatives of those killed in the FI conflict, which suffered a centre engine surge on take off from MPA and aborted take off. That was a shaken bunch of passengers.


PS - Apologies to the Flight Engineer

[Roadster280]

Saw a piece in USA that Omni the US civil AAR contractor may be interested in them. Ready made AAR assets to add to their portfolio. Mentions less than a £mil for the lot. Cheaper an Omni TriStar on Falklands stby than mega bucks Voyager?

Shades of the Belfast there. Sell fleet as SNLR. Re-hire capability back.

Terrific.

[Basil]

Third seat? Were you standing in for the Flt Engineer
In BAED we didn't carry an FE; two FOs took turns operating the systems panel.

[BEagle]

Top Bunk Tester wrote: Are we absolutely sure about that :=

Of course, it would be a brave person who decided to scrap one type when its replacement hasn't yet entered fully into service.

And, of course, if some unforeseen serious issue affecting any single type's role capability should result in it being grounded, the MoD would be rather up that creek without a paddle.....and embarking upon another 'capability holiday'......:rolleyes:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Even in your advanced years Beags I note that your crystal ball has passed it's functionals 'satis':ok:

[Liffy 1M]

Saw a piece in USA that Omni the US civil AAR contractor may be interested in them. Ready made AAR assets to add to their portfolio. Mentions less than a £mil for the lot. Cheaper an Omni TriStar on Falklands stby than mega bucks Voyager?

Perhaps you mean Omega Air, though they are already using converted DC-10-40s (ex-JAL) and have more in storage for future conversion, as far as I know. Omni Air are pax-only with B767 and B777 equipment.

[cessnapete]

You're right, slip of the pen!

[Redcarpet]

Is there any chance of the TriStar being given a stay of execution?

[BEagle]

Redcarpet wrote: Is there any chance of the TriStar being given a stay of execution?

Well, that would depend upon whether something limits the availability of the intended replacement.....:uhoh:

Top Bunk Tester, it's rather quiet here at the moment....I wonder why?

[Top Bunk Tester]

Is there any chance of the TriStar being given a stay of execution?


Well if I were a betting man I think I'd have a flutter.

Mmmmmm Beags deafening isn't it? :oh:

[Basil]

Chicken tava and kangaroo flip-flops for 300 please Basil!
We, in a well known civil airline, probably DID give the Pongos more fun in the TriStar than the old mob did.
Ex Gutersloh, new captain on type, new co-pilot on type.
Just fuel for the UK BUT, r/w length required full thrust departure.
Check alt on SID was 4000ft.
Climbing through 3000ft at circa 4000ft/min cojo calls "One to go." and looks down to retrieve doc from nav bag.
Looks up again to see 4000ft passing still at previous RoC.
Calls "Passing 4000!"
Silence and, ahem, reduced g ensues. :O

Quotations from Para Reg pax:
"F**k me, and I thought the RAF were bad!"
"I turned white back there and it ain't a pleasant experience!" (From Afro Para).

[Hosepipe]

Just seen an RAF Trimotor at the Kemble scrapyard- were those guys busily screwing bits back on instead of dismantling it????

[WildRover]

How many TriMotors are left in service to fill a "gap" if required?

[Onceapilot]

I am sad to hear about the in flight incident with the mil A330. Hope, all recover well. However, the damage to the whole fleet is done, and this will be a sure test of the military airworthiness system.
Talk of the TriStar being extended is warranted as the RAF faces the prospect of having no AAR capability in a months time. In fact, one can speculate that serious failures may have already started with the Prime Ministers promise to provide the French AF with AAR capability for CAR falling flat on its face. However, the effect on TriStar personel will be considerable and, although they will rise to any challenge, they will get scant reward-probably lose out on postings and promotions if the delay continues.
FSTA is screwed-up in many ways, and Billions of pounds have been wasted IMO.
:ugh:

OAP

[WildRover]

What's the latest "rumours" on the Tri* regarding any delay due to Voyager?

[vascodegama]

So Dave has made a promise to help the French? Just remind me how many French ac are actually cleared for AAR against the Voyager.

[Onceapilot]

Vasco, yes the PM promised RAF AAR help with the French in CAR. Guess that this has proved to be a broken promise? For decades, RAF AAR assets have earned huge amounts of military credit when working for other NATO nations. One can only speculate if this will be possible in the future?

OAP

[NutLoose]

It must make it interesting for inflight refuelling, f**k me where has it gone? springs to mind.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Ex Gutersloh, new captain on type, new co-pilot on type.
Just fuel for
the UK BUT, r/w length required full thrust departure.

I recall that -22B thrust was required for Gutersloh departures? In any event, without much fuel aboard and only carrying Pax, it would still go up like a scalded angel!

[Dengue_Dude]

I recall that -22B thrust was required for Gutersloh departures? In any event, without much fuel aboard and only carrying Pax, it would still go up like a scalded angel!

Remember it well . . . :D

[Onceapilot]

Another week and, nothing! No news and yet, there is a trawl on the RAF website to complete a "how to improve this site" survey. Here is the answer - put some news on it! Is the TriStar doing a good job? Is the TriStar the only tanker asset left? Are 216 and their support working hard? What is happening?
It is not a secret that the FSTA is grounded. Why are the efforts of other personel unworthy of a few column inches, you muppets?

OAP

[Martin the Martian]

Maybe they're trying to make a positive out of a negative? One tanker fleet grounded, the other due for retirement in six weeks.

Um, where's the former Iraqi information minister when you need him?

[cessnapete]

TriStar taken over from still grounded Voyager all AAR and Herrick etc. but sagging with u/s aircraft down route already. Crews doing their best with clapped out kit!

[Onceapilot]

Thanks CP! The lack of public info smacks of conspiracy. What is there to hide ?

OAP

[TheWizard]

Nothing. Voyager is back flying now.

[Onceapilot]

Nope. Not good enough Mr Wiz. Nothing on RAF interweb. :bored:
Maybe it can fly under a state exemption?:eek:

OAP

[TheWizard]

OAP

The WWW is a big place. Much bigger than the RAF Website. Much bigger.

Britain's RAF lifts flying ban on Voyager fleet | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/21/britain-voyager-idUSL6N0LQ2X320140221)

[Onceapilot]

No Wizzy, don't believe it, nothing on RAF portal.:bored: That Reuters' is full of mistakes.:8

OAP

[WASALOADIE]

Why dont the MOD waste £billions and have the Tristars converted into a new MPA? take out the refuelling equipment and replace with bomb bays and sonar bays. take out all the pax seats and put expensive games consoles in, hang a great bulge of a radar unit under the nose. Leave the nice big Galley in for the pie eating AEOp's (sorry WSOp's). Fly them out of a former Scottish airbase that has now been turned over to the Army.

Why not? they converted an airliner for this role before. I'm sure British Waste of Space could come up with a very expensive solution for the government to squander £multi-billions on.

[Onceapilot]

Too late WALoady. The £ Billions have been spent on the gold-plated FSTA "private raf" project. I am sure it will turn out to be an expensive but OK performer. Not quite so sure how long the Army or Navy Chiefs will put up with the "private raf" though?:yuk:

OAP

[cessnapete]

I heard in the pub that 6 TriStars are sold to an American buyer for less than £1mill.

[lj101]

Sept 25/13: Small business qualifier Omega Aerial Refueling Services Inc. in Alexandria, VA receives a $30.6 million indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity contract for Commercial Air Services (CAS) Program aerial refueling services to the US Navy, other Department of Defense and government agencies, and foreign military sales aircraft. $11.6 million is committed immediately, and will expire on Sept 30/13.

Work will be performed at Victorville, CA (50%) and Norfolk, VA (50%), and is expected to be complete by September 2014. This contract was not competitively procured pursuant to FAR 6.302-1′s one acceptable supplier provision (N00019-13-D-0010).

Sept 13/12: Omega Aerial Refueling Services Inc. in Alexandria, VA receives a $15.4 million indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity contract modification for Commercial Air Services (CAS) Program aerial refueling services to the US Navy, other Department of Defense and government agencies, and foreign military sales aircraft.

Work will be performed at various locations in the continental United States (34% East Coast and 23% West Coast); and at various locations outside the continental United States (43%), and is expected to be complete by September 2013. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year (N00019-07-D-0009).

Well this one needs more assets if it's to meet the obligations as above - cleared to be used by all types already. What's not to like..

[BEagle]

The local rag is now reporting that the burning of the boats has started, with the first KC1 being flown to Kemble for scrapping:

RAF Brize Norton's 'farewell' to Tristar heritage (From Witney Gazette) (http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/11030811.RAF_Brize_Norton_s__farewell__to_Tristar_heritage/?ref=var_0)

:uhoh:

[Sook]

ZD952 is hardly the first. There are already 2 parked up at an International Airport in East Anglia.

[BEagle]

Any new leads as to which 'US Company' has allegedly bought the RAF's TriStars?

It isn't Omega, I gather.

But with no-one still having a civil Type Rating for the L-1011, what use would they be? Aerial firefighters, perhaps, in the same way that the 2 x DC-10s of '10 Tanker Air Carrier' are used? Evergreen International Airlines used to have a 'Supertanker' firefighter,converted from a Boeing 747-100, but they ceased operations 3 months ago...???

[ErwinS]

JJAL is the rumoured buyer.
http://www.manta.com/c/mt13gc2/jumbo-jet-air-leasing-llc

[BEagle]

Do I hear that the 'deal' is off and that the TriStars will be retired to Bruntingthorpe instead?

It's a good thing that Voyager is working so well then.......:rolleyes:

Would it not be more prudent simply to park the TriStar tankers at Fairford until such time as Voyager actually meets its specified requirements?

By the way, any news about the cause of the 9 Feb plummet having been identified yet? Or is AOC 2 Gp just keeping fingers crossed...:hmm:

[gijoe]

...software issue...MS approach..test on the user.

:cool:

[Onceapilot]

Get your cameras folks. Last chance to photo good paid-for kit being thrown away between now and the end of the month. My betting is... all to be scrapped.
Not just bankers who get away with wasting £Billions:mad:.

OAP

[cessnapete]

All the rest going to Bruntingthorpe apparently, presumably for breaking.

[pulse1]

There was one at Kemble when I went in there last Tuesday. There seemed to be a lot of activity round it.

[WK622]

There usually is when you are removing the starboard engine!

[Dengue_Dude]

There usually is when you are removing the starboard engine!

Presumably there's just as much when they remove the right engine . . . (we didn't do Port and Starboard when I was on Two Sixteen, did they change that?)

[Rhino power]

ZE704, ZE705 and ZD953 all due into Brunty tomorrow morning (12th), recipient is GJD Services, have also heard (rumour only) the remaining aircraft are due later this week...

-RP

[Onceapilot]

Happy last landings to all!:ok:

What a waste. The whole multi-Billion FSTA saga and the F-35 (with their large naval target!) will go down in history as a turning point in the financial collapse of UK Mil.

No doubt this scrapping will get a line in the RAF News?

OAP

[NutLoose]

Onceapilot,

But it's the British way..

Who else would

Try to close Hospital departments that work, to aid ones elsewhere that don't.

Close schools that fail teaching standards, then need to build more.

Close working and viable coal power stations rather than convert to gas, without replacements in place to take up the slack in generating capacity (something that in the light of the Russian gas being held as ransom over our heads maybe wasn't a clever thing to do)

Close working coal burning power stations to meet EU "pollution" requirements, only to have the said power station sold to the Chinese who up'd it sticks and all and transferred it to China, where it continues to pour out "pollution" into the atmosphere free from EU directives.

[Onceapilot]

So, £1,500,000 per day for 2t/hr less fuel burn. Where is the Public Accounts Committee on this!

OAP

[Squirrel 41]

Is one going to RAFM?

[Mike51]

No. Too big, too costly to move by road. They're still trying to get the VC-10 moved to Cosford

[Squirrel 41]

Too bad. Presume too big to fly into Cosford? If nothing else, would be nice to see one as BZZ gate guardian.

[fergineer]

Gate guard at BZN.....how much longer will BZN be an airbase with so few aircraft there!!!!!

[Onceapilot]

SQUIRREL:"Is one going to RAFM?"

No! They should have been holding the line for 15 more years!:ugh:

OAP

[Wycombe]

Will "Damien" fight back the cutters torch? !!

[Arty Fufkin]

15 more years!

I'll have a pint of what he's drinking....

[Onceapilot]

I'll have a pint of what he's drinking....

You'd be so lucky! Where is the sense in this? A good sound airframe does not need to be scrapped if it can still perform its role well. Look at the Canberra, Hunter, B52, KC135 and KC10! The cutting edge of technology has not made the A330 a better AT/AAR platform than well maintained TriStar, except in fuel burn, but renting FSTA costs ten times as much as the TriStar we already have (had)!
As the USAF found, why buy a new "B52" when the one you already have does the job?
Spilt milk now, but some of the "mighty VSO's" we see in pictures on the pages, should be ashamed of this waste of the defence budget when other important capabilities have just been lost due to "cost"!.:mad:

OAP

[BEagle]

Onceapilot wrote:The cutting edge of technology has not made the A330 a better AT/AAR platform than well maintained TriStar, except in fuel burn, but renting FSTA costs ten times as much as the TriStar we already have (had)!


'Well maintained' is the crux. As the age of the TriStar approaches the right hand side of the bucket curve, the cost of maintenance would obviously increase hugely, with spares becoming rare and costly. But perhaps not to £1.2M per day.....

The ZD949 scandal wasted mi££ions and yielded nothing. Perhaps if that Tab bunch of metal bashers had converted it on time and on budget, then someone had warmed over the TriStar wing AAR pod issue again, it would have been worth keeping the TriStars until 2020-ish at least.

But then there's an exclusivity clause in the PFI deal which has stitched the RAF like a kipper. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if the Voyager actually met its user requirements....eh, Arty Fufkin? High speed variable drag drogues working yet? Or the centreline FRU? Or the MPS.....??? As a dual-aisle people-tube, it works as well as a grey-painted A330 should, apart from the still-unexplained mysterious 9 Feb Turkish plummet, but as for the full AAR clearance and support for other NATO receivers - such as those the TriStar could support.....:\

[Onceapilot]

I understand that the band will play a special version of "big yellow taxi" at the TriStar hangar bash.
"Don't it always seem to go-that you don't know what you've got till it's gone...":\

OAP

[Wander00]

Only had 4 flights in the Tri* - Brize-Ascension-Mount Pleasant, and back. But what a lovely aeroplane to fly in, and hasn't it served the RASF, and the other Services well. Very sad to see it go, and IMHO a bit of a bum decision to ditch it and the VC10 in favour of the PFI. Anyone seen a PFI in any Government department actually work in the public interest? Hat, coat................

[Timmy Crew Chief]

I was a crew chief on TriStars and it's sad to see them go, a great bus to many parties. 2 Tristars 949 & 706 are at Cambridge as scrap, 952 at Kemble, 705, 704 and 1 tanker at Bruntingthorpe yesterday and today. Only 3 tankers left to die at the end if the month.

[Motleycallsign]

Any 216 Sqn posters know when the hangar bash is planned for? Is the Standard being laid up or 'stored' in the Rotunda @ Cranditz?

[Onceapilot]

Anyone with genuine interest should phone Brize Norton. Bona fides will apply.

OAP

[Roadster280]

Wander00 - For the sake of playing devil's advocate -

When the government had (have!) no capital to spend on capital purchases, they went down the PFI route. Thus enabling the provision of the service required. Albeit under more restrictive terms than ownership would have allowed.

If it is in the public interest to have a new hospital, because the old one is Victorian and not fit for purpose by modern standards, then if PFI delivers a new hospital, is it not serving the public interest?

The fact that the government will be paying for it on the never-never forever is immaterial to those who need the service today.

It's all swings and roundabouts. If the government had not done PFIs, and issued more bonds (i.e. increased whatever the PSBR is called this week), then they would still have to replay those bonds. Further, issuing too many bonds raises the public debt to unsustainable levels. With PFIs, they do not borrow the money themselves, yet the payments are still due under the contracts for the service being provided. But these come out of a different "bucket", so all is good. Apparently.

I'm not a very good devil's advocate!

[Ian Corrigible]

Do I hear that the 'deal' is off and that the TriStars will be retired to Bruntingthorpe instead?
Flight: RAF TriStars to be scrapped after US sale falls through (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/raf-tristars-to-be-scrapped-after-us-sale-falls-through-397390/)
Talks with a potential buyer for the last six operational aircraft had reached an advanced stage, but stalled over finance and export permissions.
I/C

[BEagle]

One hears a rumour that, even though MoD failed to flog the TriStars to the US, the scrappy at Bruntingthorpe has had better luck - and is likely to do very nicely out of the deal.....

Or is that complete bolleaux?

[Evanelpus]

I've heard a rumour one will be kept as a 'runner'.

Also heard that the man from Lockheed was there yesterday and withdrew the certification of the Tristar once the last one had parked up and switched off the engines.

[RAF_Techie101]

How would that effect Orbital Sciences...?

[The Curator]

This is indeed a unique day.
I actually find myself agreeing with Beagle.
Having flown with him on more than a few occasions, I know we would not willingly choose each other as social company, however I am still rather surprised we actually agree on something. Yes, the debacle on the glass cockpit on 949 is well documented and was an atrocious waste of money. Such is life when a certain Aero firm in Cambridge is involved. I'm not prepared to enter into into a bun fight as to whether the VC10 or the TriStar was the better AAR tanker. I am, fortunately, in a fairly unique position of having operated both to pass a valid point of view.
UK towline with small fast jet receivers. VC10 wins.
Any large receiver, or US fast jet, TriStar wins every time even with single hose. Flow rate of up 2,800 kg per minute sorts that out.
Plus the ability to regularly take off with over 115 tonnes of the stuff is a bit of a bonus. Which I have done on several occasions.
As is often regrettably the case, important decisions were made by those not best qualified. Classic case in point was the proposed fitting of wing hoses to the TriStar. Nothing to do with wing strength or jet blast from the pod engine. At the time, the customer receiver was deemed to be the F4. American aircraft. Large bore fuel pipes. Could not easily get the flow rate out to the wings.
As for the seating capacity of the TriStar, it is worth pointing out that several civilian operators used to fly it in the 300 seat plus configuration. The RAF chose not to, but could easily have fitted more seats.
My great sadness is that this mighty aircraft has now gone and went in what I came to accept as traditional 216 Sqn fashion.
As was once said 'This is how it will all end, not with a bang, but a whimper'
( Misquote intended)
I spent 1 tour on the VC10. I was not 'moved on' I left with a full CRA category. To say that I much preferred the TriStar was no secret and rather removes my anonymity to any that flew with me. I enjoyed my flying on the VC10. I met some wonderful people, got used to shutting engines down in flight with gay abandon (no, I never surged one......) and I broke down in several places I had never visited before.
I was dined out on the top table of Brize Officer's Mess when I returned to the TriStar and was invited to the 10 Sqn disbandment parade. I had lots of fun.
I spent almost 18 years on 216. 10 as a Flight Instructor.
Nothing. I couldn't even go to the disbandment parade.
I was even stood up by my own Wg Cdr for my final interview on my final day. After waiting for 3 hours I just walked out of the door.
216 could have learned a great deal from 10 Sqn. Especially when dealing with the Squadron's greatest asset. Its personnel.
Good luck to those operating the Voyager. Let us hope that the recent 'in flight excursion' does not reappear and that confidence in the aircraft will return. It would be nice if one day, it could also boast the same AAR capability as the L1011. Somehow, I doubt that.
What a tragedy that some of the money invested in that aircraft could not have been spent on the TriStar.
Possibly 216 Sqn should have had more than the occasional Navigator as an Ops Officer after all........
The RAF might have still had a capable tanker then.......
Rant over.

[vascodegama]

The only US FJs that could take fuel at a high rate left service a long time ago (F4, F14) and even they could not take it at 2800 kg/min. FA18s don't take fuel any quicker than a GR4 (admittedly much better than Typhoon). Am surprised at the argument for not proceeding with wing pods, firstly the F4 was by no means the only rx and 2 F4s on the pods would be as quick as one on the centre.

[BEagle]

The Curator, sorry to learn of your rather shabby treatment :( With which I can sympathise, having had much the same treatment myself some 11 years ago :hmm:

If the TriStar had been updated with a glass cockpit and 2 x wing pods, things could have been very different. Particularly if an AAR planning and management system had been included.

Certainly the wing pod mod. would have been a challenge, but would have been fine for the F3 / Harrier etc. Prodding the centreline from the VC10 wasn't as simple as prodding another VC10, but entirely acceptable.

'Gone with a whimper'? Well, I don't know about that, because coverage in the local media was pretty good - when the local BBC news is down to a 13 min segment from Oxford, to have a 4 minute item was good going - and both the disbandment parade and final operational sortie were given good coverage in both the Oxford Mail and Witney Gazette.

When you look at the case originally presented for the FSTA and compare it with the current size of the RAF, it is perhaps not surprising that, notwithstanding its capability, an increasingly expensive-to-maintain 30 year old aeroplane with a single (OK, dual redundant) hose had a limited remaining lifetime, compared with a brand-new, 2 hose aircraft with less burn and up to 111 tonnes of fuel. Particularly since MoD beancounters didn't have to consider acquisition costs under A PFI....

...just the astonishing £1.2M per day cost!

At least the TriStar was still permitted to carry passengers on its last operational trip - unlike the poor old VC10 which, having once carried HM The Queen, was no longer permitted to carry anything other than essential crew :ugh:

PS - Happy Birthday, vascodegama!

[Dengue_Dude]

Curator,

Yep. I had applied for VC10 for years - to no avail, so assume your observations to be correct.

Then an AOC's commendation got me to the Tristar (from the Canberra OCU). It was undoubtedly the finest flight deck I've ever operated on.

The Hercules (at low level) was more fun, but the Tristar more satisfying.

Your treatment at the hands of the Establishment . . . well, nothing new there, doubt you're particularly lonely. Pete Hoskins was 216 boss when I got there and was a great bloke, he was replaced by Dave Vass, known for his warmth, sense of humour and all-round bonhomie, so the squadron 'dipped' - classic Sine wave often seen in the RAF.

Operating both the Tristar and DC10 as a civvy was most enjoyable and IS different. Especially when ex-Sqn Execs turn up as co-pilots . . .

I think we need to arrange to meet up between here and Lincoln and have a beer mate. I think you've got my number (in Donny). I'll bring my lancet :)

The 'system' proves again that Loyalty is a one-way phenomenon, but they were paying you so the contract was fulfilled (which is all the civvies ever asked for - simples).

Nil Illegitimus Carborundum (or somesuch).

[Evanelpus]

Let us hope that the recent 'in flight excursion' does not reappear

It shouldn't if care is taken with a personal camera on the flight deck!:uhoh:

[TheChitterneFlyer]

One of the RAFs greatest failings; with regard to operational aspects; is the apparent need for new commanders to make sweeping changes with respect to 'improving' what is already in-place. For only one specific reason... OJARS!! Those very people, at the senior level, who are only in-post for one tour of duty, never become truly proficient at what they do. Consequently, high level contractual matters have been blundered by lack of expertise within their area of responsibility. Hence, 'Policy Matters' have never been accurately addressed by those who ought to know what they're talking about.

The ZD949 debacle was an ill-conceived project that only came about because of the perceived lack of 'flight instrumentation' spares. It was never going to be a true 'glass cockpit'... just a cockpit made of glass! The benefits of which were never going to be cost effective nor making any significant inroads into making it a better aeroplane.

I truly believe that our, then, policy makers were ill-advised by lessor mortals with a desire to show 'change' for the sake of 'change'... with an eye for promotion and nothing else! In many respects we have been our own worst enemy; with the expectation that 'social climbers', who are perceived to be 'going places', will become instant experts; particularly within the area of writing/negotiating 'contracts' to civil industry.

Rant over.

It was a massive turnout at the Hangar Bash last night. Was it good? Well, it was OK-ish. When the Sqn Cdr took his turn on-stage with the microphone, no-one had the courtesy to stand and listen to what he had to say. It would appear that 'The Party Bus' attitude lives-on! It was quite an embarrassing moment... a b:mad:y rude audience. Disappointing!

TCF

[glum]

Plenty of us did listen to him, and the embarrassment was the point where he told us not to get drunk and have too much fun or the Staish wouldn't be pleased.

So f:mad:ing what?

They've just scrapped our beloved aircraft for utterly stupid reasons.

Sod the arse licking, why not encourage us to have one final blast?

Talk about bloody social climbers... :mad:

[Roger D'Erassoff]

Curator


As someone involved in the 216 Sqn disbandment activities, I will take issue with you. A number of events were planned with the aim of catering to as many relevant groups as possible. There was a parade on 20 Mar which was open to selected invited guests, Sqn members and families of Sqn members. With 100 on parade, capacity remaining at the parade venue from the other 380 personnel, their families and the invited guests precluded an open invite.


There was a dining in night that same night attended by 130 personnel (max Mess capacity) to say thank you to representatives from units that have supported the Tristar over the years - think industry (Marshalls, Rolls Royce, Cobham, NG and Thales), project team, affiliated livery companies, previous OCs and station heads-of-sheds as well as 75 Sqn personnel. Industry generously paid for this.


There was a Hangar Bash last night open to all previous and serving members attended by some 700 folk and there is still a Gala Dinner in Apr for up to 180 current, previous and Association members. The details for those open events are all on the 216 Sqn website.

Furthermore, with regards to press, there was a specific press day which allowed 50 members of the press to go on one Tristar to watch another Tristar with 50 aviation enthusiasts on board conduct the last operational AAR sortie. There was, as Beagle points out, much local coverage - what the nationals chose to pick up on is their business. There are plenty of aviation magazine articles yet to come as a result of that press day.

With the Sqn as busy as ever until the last moment, particularly after the Voyager pause, what it did not have the capacity to do was try and contact the circa 5000 people that have served on 216 Sqn over the last 30 years, however worthy, to see if they wanted to come. Those that have a genuine interest in the Sqn join the Association and would have known about those open events or kept themselves informed via the 216 Facebook page. If you want details of the Gala dinner then either take an active interest or even PM me for details.

I'm sorry that you were stood up by your OC - I am sure that it wasn't the current one.

As for you Glum, the 'embarrassing moment' of people continuing to talk during the OC's speech began long before the bit about behaviour. Your comment about not drinking or the Staish wouldn't pleased are a lie. The point was made to make sure your mates weren't left in a ditch, not to do drugs and not to drink-drive - all current and recent issues at Brize. Basically, not to ruin the 30 year reputation of the Sqn on the final night by being an ar$ehole. If any of those things are your idea of a good night out then point made. If you couldn't hear correctly, then maybe you were one of the 'rude audience' TCF referred to?

Roger D

[BEagle]

Roger D, it's a pity that a couple of folk should have used the occasion for throwing their teddies in such an ill-mannered way.

For those who may not have seen it before, this is a link to the Oxford Mail article: RAF bids farewell to trademark TriStar jets (From Witney Gazette) (http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/11098984.RAF_bids_farewell_to_trademark_TriStar_jets/)

I hope that your gala dinner will be a success and will be enjoyed by those worthy enough to attend. Our VC10 do certainly was!!

[Dengue_Dude]

Or put another way:

THE STIFF UPPER LIP MUST BE MAINTAINED AT ALL TIMES . . . ?

What a load of cobblers.

[NutLoose]

Seems like you did your best to include everyone and hold a hangar bash too for ex members, something sadly that never happened for the departure of the 10, so kudos to you all Roger.

[The Curator]

Roger,
I had a thoroughly enjoyable time at the Hangar party thank you. My thanks have already been passed to all involved. I personally thanked the current OC for his fine speech and apologised for the poor manners shown by many.
I will also be at the Gala Dinner hopefully. My criticism was not aimed at those who worked hard to provide the party and the upcoming dinner.
More than happy to discuss my points in person.

[BEagle]

A link to the local BBC News coverage of the last operational TriStar sortie: BBC News - Final operational mission for RAF's Tristar fleet (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-26728765)

[Onceapilot]

Thank you for posting the link BEagle. Possibly should have been titled "last mission for RAF AAR ". Ladies and Gentlemen, you were watching demise of the most cost-effective widebody AT/AAR aircraft, scrapped before its time.

OAP