EK - Time to command, for hopeful new joiners and us already in the crapper

[GoByNumbers]

Are they still telling you in the road shows and interviews that time to command is 3.5 years, max? Well, it´s always good to do some fact checking which quickly busts that slightly optimistic statement.

Fact: If you join today on the 777 there are about 1000 F/Os ahead of you waiting to move over to the left seat. For the 380 the number is about 400.

EK Statement: HR is working on a plan of 200 upgrades/year (unclear if only 777 or all fleets)
Fact: Current financial year approx 35 upgrades were made on the 777 (from recent meeting with management)

You do the math....

[Al Murdoch]

Most junior 777 Captain joined when?

[Orangewing]

The most junior 777 Captain was a DEC who joined a year ago. The most junior non-DEC Captain on 777 joined around april 2010

[Laker]

I heard 200 upgrades total next financial year (Apr 2014-Apr2015). 50 on the 777 and the rest on the Airbus side. Long long time to upgrade for a new joiner. I'm guessing 10 years. Anybody have better info?

[Wizofoz]

Factor in attrition- 3.5% doesn't sound much, but it's close enough to 100 pilots a year, and the fact that additional ULR routes require a lot of manpower (it's about 50 pilots each).

New joiners are being told around 6 years

[GoByNumbers]

Yeah, attrition is a factor of course, but the current rate is about 2.5% and of course higher among captains than the F/Os. So, attrition affects the time to command but not so much how many are ahead of you.

Correct, latest non-DEC took about 3.5 years to upgrade. However, and this is a BIG thing, the number that was mentioned in my first post is acutally 1000+ and for a fact there has been close to 1000 new hires on the 777 after the latest F/O that upgraded. So, let´s say 100 upgrades/year on the 777 and yeah, close to 10 years I would say...

[captainsmiffy]

I joined over 6 years ago and am not expecting to upgrade until at least 7 and a half years have passed....possibly 8.it is all a matter of timing and luck here. Some of us feel really shafted, others seem to have been quite lucky in comparison. FWIW, around 14000 hours total time, nearly 7 years of wide body time and 10 years of previous command time, albeit under the magic 55 tonnes though. Think very carefully before signing the dotted line if time to command is a big factor for you. Am airbus here.

[falcon10]

What is the upgrade time running down the street at the other place?

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

What will happen to the a330 guys when they eventually jump across to the 380. Do they keep any seniority or is it to the back of the line? I assume there's no MSL to cater for this.

[captainsmiffy]

Maybe join the queue.....most of us were EK 330 a few years ago!

[captainsmiffy]

Possibly......we were all asked for a complete hours breakdown a while back and so am sure that this would have helped the cause....

[Trader]

There are no accelerated commands any longer. At the moment they 'may' skip a small handfull who do not have the TOTAL time for command but that is it.

The upgrades are at over 4 years right now (at least on the 777 they are--group in April are all over 4). If you are hired today (or in the last year) you need to see 8500 pilots at EK to upgrade (double the number today).

With attrition that mean at least 7 years. I'd guess longer.

[lospilotos]

If you are hired today (or in the last year) you need to see 8500 pilots at EK to upgrade (double the number today)

Was there a zero to many in there? 850 perhaps?

[emratty]

A new joiner now will have to plan on a minimum of 8 years before upgrading. Emirates has grown rapidly doubling the fleet every few years the upgrades have come thick and fast which was great for the people who joined at that time.
The upgrades you are seeing now on the 777 at the 4 year mark are as a result of that rapid growth. It's no use to look at the orders and think they are additional airframes the fact is the A330/340 fleet will be retired over the next 3 years along with the old 777-200 and 777-300 which means the gain of aircraft is going to be relatively small.
Emirates is not the airline if you are looking for a quick command....those days are gone. It's still a good option if you are young and single but a married guy with kids really needs to think long and hard with the way prices are moving.

[Likeitis]

Slight mistake. The list will need to hit 7200. Currently at ~ 3600. With the published plan between now and 2020, expect around 350ish upgrades. Anyone with a post 2011 DOH can expect at least 6 years from now to upgrade. New joiner today would be 12 plus years. I for one am happy for this. After 20 years in the lines with only a brief command prior to 9-11, I'm sick of babysitting cocky douchebags who sit left of me only because of their lucky timing. Plenty of briefing talking gods who couldn't hand fly their way out of quife.

[Trader]

Yes, sorry, meant about 7500 since we are at 3700 now.

[nakbin330]

Things change all the time, and baring that in mind, crunch the following figures:

A short while ago it was stated in some company communication that there would be a net increase of 60 aircraft between now and 2020. If one divides the current number of pilots by the number of aircraft, and divide the result by two, the result will be the approximate number of captains required by 2020.

My numbers indicated approx 600. So, if one is not in the top 600, there will be no upgrade before 2020.

[Visual Procedures]

Dusted off my crystal ball and it came up with this:

As far as the 330 goes, its anyone's guess. Depends on the 350 of which talk is limited to whispers at the moment.

As far as the 380 goes, there's 40 odd now, total slated at 115, with 1 coming every month unless airbus slows down. So commands are happening, with time to command on the way down in the short term (for those with the hours).. All of course completely dependent on the 30+ aircraft with of crews on the 330.

As far as the 777 goes.. As per the latest "Open Skies" magazine, 134 777's flying, 64ish 'ER's to come over the next 5 years plus the X's which have been nominated as replacement aircraft.

1100ish captains now, makes sense there'd be 1650 needed once all the ER's are here.

Allow for some attrition and if they don't order any more 777's, then the last guy getting a command on the 777 due to expansion in 2019 has the number 411xxx. And that guy will have been here 8 years.

Now factor in the 9 200's and 14 300's slated for retirement over the next couple of years and command-wise things start really looking grim if your number is 412xxx + and your on the 777..

[donpizmeov]

All the above assumptions would work if EK upgraded on next in line basis. History shows this is not the case. It is done by fleet.
Net 777 fleet growth is said to be between 30 and 40 from now until 2020 (It was reported as 160 but think that has grown because of the extra 77Fs. All classic 777s gone with first ER retired in 2017). There are 80 380s on the way in the same time frame, with remainder of the 330/340 to be retired. So about a 25% increase in the Boeing and bit of a doubling of the Bus fleet.
So the top 25 to 30% of 777 FOs will be upgraded by 2020, and all current Bus FOs will be upgraded. If/when the 350s arrives could tilt this a bit more.


Out of seniority commands will continue.


The Don

[Dropp the Pilot]

I can offer one upgrade slot for June 2015. I can go earlier if you make it worth my while or help me lose my medical this week. Something not too painful.

[nakbin330]

From now until 2020 there is a net increase of 60 aircraft.

[Mach_Krit]

U all wanns stick around that long :ugh::ugh::confused:

[fliion]

According to the latest 'Open Skies' issue, TC says in black and white that we will carry 70m passengers by 2020. That compares with our current annual of 39m. It's almost double.

Granted aircraft size will increase but so will the numbers of pilots needed as the 380 takes on additional US ULR.

Interestingly he also confirms the 70 A350s in the same lead-in article.

Finally, word is that the 777F is chewing up crews with these new Latin routes (Mex City & Quito)

I think our FOs will be fine with upgrade timing, long may it continue.

f.

[whossorrynow]

captainsmiffy post #3:
I joined over 6 years ago and am not expecting to upgrade until at least 7 and a half years have passed....possibly 8.it is all a matter of timing and luck here.

fliion post #24:
I think our FOs will be fine with upgrade timing, long may it continue.

Oh you're being ironic, I see now.

[Outatowner]

'Open Skies' - what's that, some sort of brown noser company rag magazine I presume. Never heard of it. No wonder they knocked me back for asst deputy CP.

[fliion]

Well first let me say that my belief of 'non doomsday' upgrade scenarios has absolutely nothing to do with my view of the company's practices and treatment of its Flt Ops crews.

Two separate subjects. My position is clear on the latter - not good enough.

As to the upgrade standard, don't want to let this thread drift - but I don't know many if any who have had a free ride.

Your point?

f.

[INLAK]

After 20 years in the lines with only a brief command prior to 9-11, I'm sick of babysitting cocky douchebags who sit left of me only because of their lucky timing. Plenty of briefing talking gods who couldn't hand fly their way out of quife.

Are you one of those guys who immediately gives me the cold shoulder when they look at the GD and see D.O.B XX-XXX-198X? Thankfully I've only experienced a handful.

[fatbus]

@200 pax AC now = 39mil pax, 777/380/330 (330/340 @250 seats ), 280 AC by 2020, 120-380 160-777 = @70 mil, that's where the numbers are coming from . So net growth of 80 AC in 6 years. Cargo may be using up crew but with the 777 ULR flights decreasing the crew requirement is dropping off. As it has be posted be aware of what you are getting into if you join EK now. The last @ 500 FO 's on the 777 will soon figure it on there own.

[Outatowner]

Likeitis,

I'm sick of babysitting cocky douchebags who sit right of me only
because of my lucky timing. Plenty of briefing talking gods who couldn't hand fly their way out of quife.

There I fixed it for you!

PS: what is quife?

[medflyer]

Would the other place down the highway be quicker? I'm currently an NG Captain, does it ever happen that "they" would consider DEC on to the 320 with no time on type (but lots of narrow body time) or is it all RHS entry to the wide bodies?

Thanks

[falconeasydriver]

Medflyer, you can always ask…just don't mention zee name..

[donpizmeov]

Tinee,


In 2010 a 777 FO was starting command course just before they had completed 3yrs in the company. Today guys are approaching 4yrs with no course date. Did you read Capt Smiffy's post? He joined 6yrs ago. Looks like 7.5 to 8yrs for him. Unfortunately he is not on his pat Malone.


It would seem that the predictions from the past aren't too far away from reality.


The don

[Machspeed]

Everything changes here! Example, EK stated in Gulf News that they will continue the expansion of the past into the future. Quoted saying they will be at 15 US destinations in the next 3 years.

[lospilotos]

Everything changes here! Example, EK stated in Gulf News that they will continue the expansion of the past into the future. Quoted saying they will be at 15 US destinations in the next 3 years.

Well, it's not the number of destinations that decide how many pilots you need but it's the number of aircraft you have, and that's quite easy to predict.(I agree ULRs need more pilots). Unless you start to dry lease a lot, deliveries are pretty fixed, you don't just rock up a 777 like that.

[ramius315]

don,

Reading between the lines Capt Smiffy is a 330 guy who was transferred to the 380 as an FO. ie he had to start his whole 2500hrs again in order to get his CMD.

That isn't the norm for most guys at EK, so his is an (extremely frustrating) anomaly. It shouldn't be referenced as the typical career path to CMD in EK because it quite simply isn't.

[donpizmeov]

Ramius315,


Your right it isn't the command career path for all EK FOs, but it is for all the EK 330 FOs that joined at the same time as Smiffy. 330 FOs coming to whale now have been two years in the company, and will need another 4yrs to upgrade.


The Don

[Payscale]

Latest rumour. 96 upgrades on the A380 in the next fiscal year. That should make some happy faces.:)

[Flying Spag Monster]

Try 106....same number as 330 FO's to 380.

[captainsmiffy]

Whilst it may not be the norm as a careerpath, there are a fir few of us in the same boat.....the other thing that is rankling right now is that there may well be 96 or 106 upgrades in this financial year but I am personally worried that I may still fall outside of this! I believe that I first become eligible for an upgrade in march of 2015 according to flt ops, assuming that I get their forecast hours. Just shy of 8 years in the company and still touch and go on the hours.....it would be the cruelllest twist of fate to lose out on this round as well.....!!!!

[NG_Kaptain]

Would the other place down the highway be quicker? I'm currently an NG Captain, does it ever happen that "they" would consider DEC on to the 320 with no time on type (but lots of narrow body time) or is it all RHS entry to the wide bodies?

Thanks
Anecdotally about three years to upgrade if you meet the requirements down at the other airline. Ninety-six upgrades projected on the 77.

[Machspeed]

The point to the matter is this: the company is expanding, slower at the moment due the spring slow down due runway (where else in the world does a 24 hr airport close down half of its capacity for 3 months). Additional destinations = more airplanes = more pilots. EK is not pulling out of places. Retirements of 330s were a lot slower and some will remain for a few more years. Retirements of the RR 777s did not happen as planned last year. EMH is still here with 64,000 hrs on her and she was suppose to exit stage left last summer.

Instead, EK wants to continue to expand and double it's size by 2020. That's a lot of growth. If your an FO here now with all the requirements and no letter yet, that's due to the current and short slow down. If you go down the list, there are a lot of FOs that do not have 6000 hrs Total Time. That is still a requirement. If you came here with 2700 hrs total time, you not only need the 2500 hrs in type and 36 months, but a total of 6000 total time. For half of those FOs on the list, they need to do 3500 hrs here and at an average of 700/yr, that's that's 5 years. If you were pushed to the A380, then you need the 2500 EK type, but only 700 in the A380. So add a year to that. If you came to EK with minimum time and got pushed to the A380, it will not slow you down unless you had the 2500 hrs in the 330/340. But NO MATTER what, you still have to have 6000 hrs Total Time.

The fact of the matter is that everyone going to the left seat must have the experience required. If you came here with very little, then you need to do a lot here. Just watch as the most junior Capt spot starts to run WAY up the list. The most Junior Capt now is near 2050 seniority number. That's going to go up the rank fast since most of the hiring during 2010-2013 was Ryan Air FOs and Regional CRJ FOs. If you're not in that category, sorry, wrong timing, but it should be coming fast soon.

As stated by someone earlier in this thread, out of seniority upgrades will continue to find those with min requirements.

One thing is for certain here, if you don't like how things are going right now, give it 6 months, it always changes.

[RjAgCR]

American Airlines to hire largest number of pilots in more than a decade | Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/american-airlines-to-hire-largest-number-of-pilots-in-more-than-a-decade/)

Will these news have any effect on that matter? :confused:

Just wondering...I don't work there yet! :ok:

Rj

[GoreTex]

and lets say one day you will be a captain in EK, then what?

[falcon10]

American is hiring mostly military guys right now. The very few civilians are flow throughs from Eagle. Doubt this will have much impact on Ek given their preferences.

[glofish]

But NO MATTER what, you still have to have 6000 hrs Total Time.

Tough luck (or bad planning ahead) if you have not pulled the subcontinental hours-stunt when joining .....

[gl69]

There are well over 200 Emirates pilots that have applied to AA. That doesn't mean that they will all get hired or even all go but if even half go that is huge.
AA just had their first new hire class in over a decade so get in now and get your seniority number. Don't wait to be captain at EK you will just lose 60 numbers a month and what does an Emirates captain get you. 15% more work than an FO while your buddies that left for greener pastures are enjoying life.
AA has about 4000 retirements in the next 10 years. You will be a wide body captain in no time with a lot less stress and flying hours there than if you stayed at Emirates.

[InnocentBystander]

Instead, EK wants to continue to expand and double it's size by 2020

Where do you get that from? Current planning (and aircraft orders) is nowhere near doubling the fleet. Tim Clark has stated numerous times in the recent past that he sees the airline at around 270 aircraft by 2020. We have ~210 now.

See here for a recent statement:

By 2020, we will have more than 250 aircraft serving some 70 million passengers across six continents (http://www.theemiratesgroup.com/english/news-events/news-releases/news-details.aspx?article=1403528)

[InnocentBystander]

There are well over 200 Emirates pilots that have applied to AA. That doesn't mean that they will all get hired or even all go but if even half go that is huge

That'll be about 2.6%, and they won't all leave at the same time, maybe over two years? That's 1.3% attrition per year. That's nowhere near huge. Europe is still contracting and will be for a few more years. That'll more than make up for that.

I think the biggest recruiting draw will be China, but there you'll trade Dubai for China. Not a change a lot will be willing to do with their families unless there will be commuting contracts in large numbers.

[gl69]

I have been here almost 10 yrs and last year (2013) I moved up 52 numbers and that is pilots ahead of me. I did not check how many left junior to me.
H.R told us that there are 75 pilots with their resignations in now. Some of them could always pull their resignations but that has to shake the recruiting dept a little especially when we see what is trying to join. Shocking I'm told by recruitment pilots.
With Expo and other expansion projects coming it is only going to get worse for us.

[Machspeed]

Management washup today. Said 35 777 upgrades this fiscal. (Apr). Then 230-300 A380 FO new hires and same as much with the 777 for a record hiring year.

No more DECs and if they have to will start going up the list to find FOs for fast track Capts.

15 new 777s including 2 new 77Fs. They are considering retiring 5 airplanes but that's TBD.

However they said everything is driven my Commercial and when they release the new plans for increased destinations, all of this will change.

As for Innocentbystander above, EK has always understated their intentions. Or else you give away your plans to the competition. This airline has nearly doubled its size every 7-10 years. Clark has stated even on ICE that you can expect the same type of expansion from EK that you've seen in the past. EK carried 34 million passengers in 2012. So 70 millions sounds like doubling. Yeah, a bunch of A380s but a bunch of 777s too.

[InnocentBystander]

Yeah, it's more like 30 upgrades in financial year 2014/15 and 90 new hires on the 777.

But whatever, you seem to hear only what you want to hear. Good luck with that.

It is a rumor forum after all, who wants to deal with reality, right? ;)

[fatbus]

Loss of ULR's slowly produce a surplus ,calendar year 2014 net growth @ 7-9 777 and only 30-35 upgrades . Over half of the 380 coming this year are the new higher take off wt, so more of the ULR 777 flights going 380. For planning purpose listen to IB and not MS( no offence) ,people tend to only hear what they want to until it's too late.

[BDiONU]

due the spring slow down due runway (where else in the world does a 24 hr airport close down half of its capacity for 3 months).Runways do wear out and have to be replaced. Heathrow (http://www.cnplus.co.uk/innovation/project-reports/how-morgan-sindalls-dinky-toys-are-helping-deliver-airport-resurfacing/8652210.article) had one of theirs done last year. But they, like most of Europe, have the luxury of doing it at night when airports shut. Dubai never shuts.
The option to do it in 10-12 hour time periods was examined but it was decided it was less disruptive to do it by closing during the quieter traffic months in the summer (cause it's too damned hot to holiday here).
It's not just one runway being done, the Southern Runway has to close to allow work on the RETs which are being improved. Then the northern runway gets resurfaced, RET work completed and an end around taxiway.
This is a truly MASSIVE project and to complete it with only 80 days of closure is exceptionally challenging.

[fliion]

Minor point BUT;

Not all the 777ULRs being replaced by 380 will result in said Boeings going to non ULR cities.

A lot of US expansion coming next financial yr and beyond once these aircraft are replaced by 380 on the legacy US routes.

Look for MIA ORD EWR DTW ATL PHL (that's my order guess) in the next three years, not to mention up-gauging at least LAX to twice daily and possibly another in Texas.

Not sure on LATAM, seems quiet there re. rumors.

As has been mentioned numerous times EK finds a way to keep on marching up...and I believe attrition will continue to increase as long as the petty BS Japanese torture from above continues.

f.

[whossorrynow]

Machspeed wrote:
EK has always understated their intentions. Or else you give away your plans to the competition.

and then wrote:
Clark has stated even on ICE that you can expect the same type of expansion from EK that you've seen in the past.

So which is it?

[Machspeed]

Yeah, it's more like 30 upgrades in financial year 2014/15 and 90 new hires on the 777.

But whatever, you seem to hear only what you want to hear. Good luck with that.

It is a rumor forum after all, who wants to deal with reality, right? ;)

That's what they said at the washup.

[Machspeed]

Machspeed wrote:
EK has always understated their intentions. Or else you give away your plans to the competition.

and then wrote:
Clark has stated even on ICE that you can expect the same type of expansion from EK that you've seen in the past.

So which is it?

Both. He didn't give numbers. That would tip the hat.

So well just wait and see. Which is all we can do anyway.

[Praise Jebus]

Mach please tell us you watched every new movie, listened to every top 100 Album, replayed all the Family Guy episodes THEN decided to catch up with Sir T on ICE ......?

[Machspeed]

Mach please tell us you watched every new movie, listened to every top 100 Album, replayed all the Family Guy episodes THEN decided to catch up with Sir T on ICE ......?

Lmao!! Actually listened as my IFE was frozen and waiting for pursuer to reset.

[Machspeed]

You have as much chance of upgrading as a new hire at EK within 7 years .

Been here a bit already. It's those guys that have been hired in the last few years that are looking at 7.

[Mister Warning]

Frozen ICE - sounds about right :)

[RjAgCR]

How miserly airlines created their own pilot shortage (http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/news-wire/2014/02/20/commuter-airlines-face-pilot-shortage.html?page=all)

Rj

[Beatsaregularjob]

It's an interesting post, just wondering though - since the 380 is flavour of the month these days and it's taking over a lot of the ULR routes will this continue? If EK starts going to new destinations in the USA will they start these with the T7 or straight to 380?
Not that it seems likely but if the 777X turns up in say 2021 wouldn't that be the new flavour of the month and therefore command focus shift to that? So maybe new hires who join now might just get a command around then????

[thehonourablefong]

No, BRJ...

Emirates will endeavour to put what they see as the most commercially appropriate aeroplane on a route at any time.

If they open a route with a 330 but the demand immediately peaks for a 380 to become a suitable airframe, then as long as they have the aeroplane availability (which is the problem), a 380 it will become.

There are myriad other issues but just because an aeroplane is new and shiny doesn't mean that they ignore all the other fleets...the reason this is happening with the 330/340 is because a) they're too small for the majority of routes b) their cabins are out of date and unsuitable for premium (ie first world) routes. As they were always planned to be departing, the company delayed refurbs, the problem now is that they can't get rid of them as they have nothing to replace the capacity with.

In an ideal world, EK won't leave a fleet short in order to fly the shiny new one if they need both equally, however not having enough pilots to do this, they have to spread who they have out to fill the most valuable seats - at the moment, the 380 - as it can take the most passengers.

[Airmencharlie]

Every day new rumours about the 330/340 fleet. It's become a joke. Operational plan changes daily. New joiners in 2012 were told 6 months 340 n 1 year to 380. 2 years running and all of them, i say again every single one of them is still on the fleet because they started hiring direct 380 fo's.
Recently the word in the market is emirates is not going to hire any more 380 fo's, but even in the latest interviews every one is being told that they will be flying a380 straight away.
Now that makes me wonder, they definitely making up some part of it.
No one knows what will happen and thats the truth. You can speculate as much as you like but the odds are as good as going to the tarot card reader.
And guys on the 330/340 fleet are easily looking at a 8-9 year mark for command if 350 order is cancelled.

[aussiefarmer]

The latest rumour is that only 30 upgrades are being planned this year on the B777. I'm counting and will take maaaany summers to get mine!

A340 guys are being screwed over with no-more-upgrades on their fleet, and much junior guys going to the whale jet for "operational reasons".

Just an update on how miserable is life for them (was just talking to one of them at a BBQ the other day)
- 1 Reserve month every 5 months
- Forced leave in May 30 days (no leave this financial year with family and kids)
- No upgrades on the fleet
- No 380, being bypassed by junior guys A330 only
- Rosters up to overtime threshold with 10-15 night turns in cases
- Instructors being initially not allowed to bid for leave and now have been forced.

Happy days!

[120feet]

Farmboy,
I did see one of my 330 friends roster he had close to 90 hours, and 7 days off. There were not any "rest" days either. I was shocked. Working that schedule with a day or two off here and there, he is not long for this world. I tell my non flying friends the reason I have 14 days off a month (I do not work for EK) is because I work Easter and Christmas and my Kids birthdays, and through the night on occasion. Those days are compensation for everything else this job takes from me. I can not imagine 7,8,9 days off coupled with 5 allnighters. I would be dead before age 50.

[GoreTex]

EK has to hire FO's direct on the 380, nobody who does some research would join the 330

[FLEX/MCT]

5 all nighters is pretty standard, in fact bottom bid group is usually entirely composed of night turns - I didn't log a day flight for six weeks at one point last year! Also managed eight consecutive rosters without a layover.

Our only hope is that some new recruits do accept a stint on the 330 in order that those of us currently mapping the night time Arabian Sea can escape to the 380 at some point in the future. Currently my predicted course date will see me completing two and a half years of some of the worst rosters I have ever experienced and there is no guarantee that that date won't slip back if the 'golden boy' recruitment direct 380 resumes.

I know it makes commercial sense but it is pretty galling to watch a load of short haul easy/BA/Iberia pilots going straight to the top fleet when I'm getting up at 1am every other night to go to India...

On a related note the lowest guys on the 340 are scheduled for 380 courses around January I believe. Having heard that the 343 is not scheduled for retirement for a couple of years I wonder who will fly it? Seems to me one of a few things will happen:

A) Current 340 guys will be kept back. Current 340 guys get screwed

B) Experienced 330 guys will be kept back and CCQ'd. Current 330 guys get screwed

C) Any poor suckers who join onto 330 this year get cross trained but will there be any/enough of them?

I'm betting whichever option gets exercised somebody will be getting screwed, seems to be standard EK MO....:ugh:

[White Knight]

Is there anything official preventing EK guys heading South to AUH?

Possibly a No Poaching agreement?