Cold war special forces jumped with backpack nukes

[tartare]

OK - loosely mil aviation related, but I kid you not.
They got pushed out the back with a bucket of instant sunshine strapped to them.
Here's the story - from Stars and Stripes (http://www.stripes.com/news/us/when-elite-us-forces-strapped-nukes-to-their-backs-1.266168) - about the B-54 mine.

[onetrack]

I'm appalled, but not surprised. When I found out many years ago, that the FSC codes contain nuclear depth charges (FSC1120) and nuclear demolition charges (FSC1125), I rapidly understood just how much the Americans had miniaturised nukes.

I don't know if just hiding behind a wall a few hundred metres away, when blowing a bridge, would be a good idea, if you were handed nuke demo charges. :eek: :)

[500N]

One small nuke is a hell of a lot easier than trying to lay charges
on buildings in a plant, plus of course the fact that you don't
actually need to enter said target.

But as has been pointed out, I wouldn't put much hope on getting
out alive on a mission like that.

The other thing that was obvious in the article was actually getting
to the target with the thing on your back. Heavy packs with odd
shaped things do not make for either quiet tactical movement or fire
and movement if contacted.

[Whenurhappy]

Training in the use of 'Atomic Demolition Munitions' continued at the NATO Special Weapons system School - now the NATO School Oberammergau until c 1975. The majority of students were US Army Engineers, but a number of British military students attended these otherwise US-only courses. My understanding - having corresponded with students who attended these courses, ADMs were designed to be pre-placed during TTW, as a denial weapon - eg airfields, rail yards and bridges. . I just hope they've all been accounted for...

[Martin the Martian]

I don't know which was the craziest part of it; that somebody came up with the idea, or that somebody else said, hey good one, let's do it.

[Whenurhappy]

Right up there with nuclear-tipped SAM - airspace denial weapons (eg NIKE Hercules, issued, inter alia, to the Luftwaffe AA units!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I just hope they've all been accounted for...
From having spoken to people who know these things, there are a very large number of non-atomic demolition charges still out there from WW2, including quite a few in Southern England.

[ShyTorque]

I just hope they've all been accounted for...

Hang on, I'll check my loft - might still have one up there...

No, it's only a box of Compo rations, Menu D. Best before WW3

Almost as deadly...

[L J R]

A Nuke in a Back-Pack.....were there any 'training' accidents, or 'Unauthorised Discharges' (or whatever they were called then)....Did they affect the Night Enhancement Devices....

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

:eek: He mentioned Menu D !!! I'll be in therapy for weeks now! :eek:

[dragartist]

At least they put them in metal tins. Our lot would have used a big cardboard tube.

[Roadster280]

Seems awfully risky. As in there in risk that the charge wouldn't get to the target, let alone the risk to those doing it. Why not simply use a missile or air-dropped bomb? Or even artillery. Such things exist(ed). Or pre-place them.

Short of putting one in a beer barrel to get it into the Kremlin, I can't see a use for these that other weapons systems couldn't do a more reliable and less risky job of.

[Heathrow Harry]

well if they were pre-positioned - even by an hour - you'd definitely take out the target whereas Artillery or airstrike is always somewhat iffy - especially in fast moving operation

you'd just have to hope that SPETZNAS weren't there to start with

[racedo]

From having spoken to people who know these things, there are a very large number of non-atomic demolition charges still out there from WW2, including quite a few in Southern England.

Remember there are still a number of mines buried in Flanders and The Somme which did not explode when required.

[sitigeltfel]

I'm not sure if this was ever a good idea :hmm:

Davy Crockett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_%28nuclear_device%29)

2,100 of them were produced :eek:

Remember this?

UGf-sS4js5Y

[gr4techie]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/SADM%28cropped%29.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Medium_Atomic_Demolition_Munition_%28internal%29.jpg/640px-Medium_Atomic_Demolition_Munition_%28internal%29.jpg

I heard they were placed underground at bottlenecks where the Warsaw Pact armoured columns were expected to break through, like the Fulda Pass.

Apparently they were sensitive to the cold. So scientists had to think of how to heat up the mines for such a long period of time. Electrical batteries wouldn't last, so he best source of heat they came up with is a thousand chickens with enough food and water!

[Yellow Sun]

Right up there with nuclear-tipped SAM - airspace denial weapons (eg NIKE Hercules, issued, inter alia, to the Luftwaffe AA units!

Which also had a much less well publicised surface-to-surface mode.

YS

[Davef68]

Right up there with nuclear-tipped SAM - airspace denial weapons (eg NIKE Hercules, issued, inter alia, to the Luftwaffe AA units!

Or indeed nuclear AAMs

AIM-26 Falcon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-26_Falcon)

AIR-2 Genie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIR-2_Genie)

The latter at least was test fitted to a Lightning

[Whenurhappy]

I broadly understand the rationale behind an unguided nuclear-armed AAM to defeat hordes of Soviet bombers (eg AIR - 2 Genie), but wtf have a nuclear tipped PGM AAM such as the AIM - 26 Falcon?

Yellow-Sun (name says it all) - tell me more about the Nike-Hercules SSM role. I've never seen any reference to this mode.

[SASless]

I read an account about a US Army SF training exercise that required the SF Team to Infil a Hydro-Electric Dam in North Carolina that was being guarded by Infantry forces. They left behind the Back Pack Nuke per the Plan and safely Ex-filed. Shortly afterwards there was a short but REALLY HUGE Panic.....as the thing was the real deal and was now unattended but stashed in an out of the way spot inside the now unguarded Dam.

The Lads what dropped the thing off went back and collected the thing....allowing everyone "In the Know" to breathe a really HUGE sigh of relief and continue to serve until they could collect their Pensions.

I cannot attest to the veracity of the account....but I would not be the least bit surprised it could have happened some how.

Good thing they did not have the codes to arm the thing....or else it might have been discovered in a more public manner.

North Carolina had some experience with the Military attacking it with Nukes over the Years.


Whoops: Atomic Bomb dropped in Goldsboro, NC swamp, Neuse River Basin, HUC 02 | Restoration Systems (http://www.restorationsystems.com/uncategorized/whoops-atomic-bomb-dropped-in-goldsboro-nc-swamp-neuse-huc-02/)

[Pontius Navigator]

Apparently they were sensitive to the cold. So scientists had to think of how to heat up the mines for such a long period of time. Electrical batteries wouldn't last, so he best source of heat they came up with is a thousand chickens with enough food and water!

You are of course confusing that small back pack nuke with Blue Peacock. By no stretch of the imagination was BP man-portable. It was a true ADM that would need to have been emplaced in a detonation chamber. I believe these were constructed at a number of locations.

Blue Peacock used a shock-mounted Blue Danube capsule in a hermetically sealed container. Google Image Result for http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39990000/jpg/_39990167_chicken203.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=599&tbm=isch&tbnid=H7XVybI0SoczzM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2Fuk%2F358846 5.stm&docid=NliPt1ZFokNM6M&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F399 90000%2Fjpg%2F_39990167_chicken203.jpg&w=203&h=152&ei=Lxb5Uq_QFKj17AbYpYAg&zoom=1&ved=0CFUQhBwwAA&iact=rc&dur=6297&page=1&start=0&ndsp=14)

While the container was fully sealed it was estimated that the biological heat source would remain viable for the required length of time.

PS While looking for Blue Peacock I found this better image:

Google Image Result for http://2.bp.********.com/-pmn6jwWvLZo/UCA6296TwxI/AAAAAAAAAzc/6oNHKZlAGec/s1600/100_5020.JPG (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=599&tbm=isch&tbnid=3Jyet7gdc7OIhM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fprettymodestbffs.********.com%2F2012% 2F08%2Fthe-blue-peacock.html&docid=ZWjusGIIIUfJlM&itg=1&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.********.com%2F-pmn6jwWvLZo%2FUCA6296TwxI%2FAAAAAAAAAzc%2F6oNHKZlAGec%2Fs160 0%2F100_5020.JPG&w=1600&h=1071&ei=Lxb5Uq_QFKj17AbYpYAg&zoom=1&ved=0CGoQhBwwBw&iact=rc&dur=11070&page=1&start=0&ndsp=14)

[Pontius Navigator]

As scary as a man-pack nuke, the RN plan to insert Red Beard based nukes into the Naval base at Kronstadt would have enthused the crews involved:

Barrow Submariners Association (http://www.rnsubs.co.uk/Boats/BoatDB2/index.php?id=2&BoatID=625&flag=class)

[SASless]

The USN used Attack Subs to service Phone Cable Traps for years.....so leaving some Nukes behind would not have been difficult at all.

If you can leave a Phone Trap....what is to say we did not leave some sort of Nuke....or at least had the ability to do so if we had wanted?

If they ever did....I sure hope they did not affix a label saying "US Navy Property....if found please return!".

Book*Review*on*"Blind*Man's*Bluff" (http://melrosemirror.media.mit.edu/servlet/pluto?state=303034706167653030375765625061676530303269643030 3433373037)


http://www.northjersey.com/news/international/243357671_When_elite_troops_strapped_nuclear_weapons_to_thei r_backs.html?page=all

[Pontius Navigator]

SASLess, having been to Kronstadt it would have been a whole lot more of hurt than tapping an undersea cable.

The water is very shallow, entrance, the 'deep' water channel is between the mainland and the fortress about 2-3 miles wide. It was, incidentally, the penetration route for one of our targets.

WUH, I did the WEC at Cranditz in 1974 and the Nike in the SSM role was one option and indeed the weapons of choice for our exercise target. It would have had the benefit of collateral damage on the adjacent town.

[Whenurhappy]

PN:

Rotherham, I hope.

[Pontius Navigator]

Neuruppin ..

[MPN11]

Hang on, I'll check my loft - might still have one up there...
No, it's only a box of Compo rations, Menu D. Best before WW3
Almost as deadly...

Probably as useful as my plastic gift-wrapped NBC Suit Mk 2, dating from the 80s. But whatever, 'every little helps'.

[NutLoose]

Don't forget this little puppy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khyZI3RK2lE&sns=em

[topgas]

There's a thread on Arrse on strange weapons Those wierd and wonderful weapons that didnt make it - Page 10 (http://www.arrse.co.uk/weapons-equipment-rations/209810-those-wierd-wonderful-weapons-didnt-make-10.html) which covered the Davey Crocket launcher system - range about 2km 9but not very accurate), 10-20 ton yield, probably fatal radiation dose to 600m, selectable medium or low burst height
http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=3476&stc=1&d=1165014606

and the nuclear backpack SADM, variable yield 10 tons to 1 kiloton
http://laststandonzombieisland.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/h-912-transport-container-for-mk-54-sadm.jpg

[Heathrow Harry]

you could easily leave one of those on the Tube by mistake................

[Wander00]

HH - perhaps best not to go there - oh, here comes the black Omega agai....................................n

[racedo]

What was the old tune

"Bring me sunshine lalala.."

[Heathrow Harry]

A few years back I was in Paris during some terrorist scare and the French Army had deployed with At4S anti-tank (like a bazooka) in the tunnels and on the platforms

Pretty scarey :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

[Pontius Navigator]

HH, they don't mess around. We were in Disney last year. It was patrolled by armed marines.

[AR1]

I imagine the Nike-Hercules S-S mode was the inevitable consequence of it missing its original target. It wasn't called the 'Forget and Fire' system for nothing!

[1771 DELETE]

I think you may find that it was not only US forces packing a nuclear rucksack, some people much closer to home had the same idea.

I also don't think that Nike was the only missile with a dual capability but my memory is fading now.

[Pontius Navigator]

AR1, nice one. It was also pretty effective in the anti-air role in that mode.

Toasting an airfield is a pretty easy way of getting a kill; just think, each battery would become an Ace with one launch :}

[NutLoose]

You can tell that is a British designed nuclear rucksack through the judisious use of a no expense spared lump of old rope.

[awblain]

The shiny rope is just to distract the curious.

[racedo]

The shiny rope is just to distract the curious.

Like Kleptomaniacs.................................

[gr4techie]

HH, they don't mess around. We were in Disney last year. It was patrolled by armed marines.

Must have been a nice posting for them. I wonder if the Marines were in hotels and on rates?

[dragartist]

Hey Nutty, enjoyed your post about the rope! Not at all far from the truth.


http://www.airborne-sys.com/files/brochures/asg_cspep_mk3.pdf


when I first joined the airborne world there was an on going dispute between two companies over the IPR of said rope. It consumed a great deal of effort diverting us away from more important stuff. the matter was only resolved when the two companies merged. probably the most expensive bit of rope in the UK inventory. Unless someone knows differently.

[SASless]

The US Marines have a long connection to Disneyland....and have embraced the Mickey Mouse Club as a partner organization.

Full Metal Jacket Ending - Mickey Mouse song - YouTube

[Heathrow Harry]

Back when didn't some thief nick a suitcase from Reading Station, got it home and found it was an IRA bomb.......... seem to remember he pitched it into the garden and called the law - who "decided not to prosecute..."

Imagine if he'd picked the wrong rucksack............ not that you'd notice if half Reading went up in a bright flash I guess.................