Combining Engineering and Flying

[ManUtd1999]

So, like many on here being a pilot is all I've ever imagined myself doing. However, I'm realistic and accept it's a tough industry to get into, especially for someone without the means or desire to spend £80,000 without a guarantee of a job. For that reason I'm currently study Aero Engineering, which should provide a good back-up career in something I enjoy.

The question is, if I get a place on BA FPP or similar, or eventually make it through modular training, is there a way to combine the two careers? Would having an engineering degree open up doors for me to take on technical roles or work in flight ops? Is there any other engineering-related stuff to get involved in part-time?

[magicmick]

There is a fairly prolific poster on PPRuNe who uses the user name Genghis the Engineer who combines flying and engineering with a lot of success, it might be worthwhile searching for their posts and/ or dropping them a PM.

I come from an engineering background (military not civvy) and while the engineering experience and degree have not opened any flying doors, it has allowed me to get some engineering work while looking for flying jobs so I can keep the money coming in and keep my flying qualifications and medical current.

So your degree and engineering experience may well allow you to earn a crust and keep the wolf from the door after you finish training if you do not find a flying job immediately.

[Genghis the Engineer]

T'is I LeClerc!

Actually just waiting for my bags after 20 hours in steerage with Korean Air, but give me 36 hours or so to recover and I'll pop back in and try and say something sensible.

[portsharbourflyer]

As some one who is both an Engineer and a Pilot (turboprops and instructing), I have never had any luck in combining the two. I have found that companies what me to be either an Engineer or a Pilot (well I get a lot of confirmed Engineering offers and a lot of wild goose chases on flying jobs).

The thing also to point out is Engineering experience is a good back up not the degree itself, so it is worth getting yourself 5 years engineering experience in a particular specialisation. One of my colleagues does fly summer season for a one of the "bucket and spade" route airlines and then resorts to Engineering contracting in the winter.

With certain Engineering specialisations it may be possible to do some free lance consulting between flying if you have a light roster or a lot of time on standby.

As for working for the same company and doing a combined pilot / engineer role, there are the occasional technical pilot positions that arise, but other than that you will find the crewing planners will generally not want the hassle of arranging the schedule of one individual across two departments.

I hope Genghis doesn't mind me commenting that his combined engineering / flying roles have been GA / light aviation based. So your best hope of combining Engineering and Flying will be in the mircrolight / light aircraft sector not in an airline environment.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Jetlag surprisingly well managed on this occasion. Korean Air isn't bad either, just 4hrs + 2 hrs + 12 hrs, + 7 hours at airports in between is more than a normal human being should be expected to take, added to a 10 hour time lag.



Anyhow, my view on it. Yes, I hold qualifications as both a professional pilot (CPL + CRI) and as a professional engineer (BEng + CEng + Eur.Ing. + PhD). Most of the jobs I've done over the last 20 odd years have to some greater or lesser extent used both skillsets, although to a rather lesser extent both sets of formal qualifications.

Jobs that require significant engineering and flying knowledge together exist, and I've done a few of them. But virtually never are they either mainstream flying or mainstream engineering jobs.

The full time jobs I've done that combined the skillsets:-

(1) Military flight test engineer. My BEng was essential, my flying knowledge was essential - how I came by that flying knowledge was irrelevant, as were any actual civil licences I had. I did however get appropriately trained and spent a lot of time flying with various military pilots in military aircraft as part of their ongoing assessment.

(2) Head of a light aircraft airworthiness department. My engineering degree and licences were essential there - and I was routinely flying aeroplanes as part of my job, as well as just to get where I was going. CAA authorised me as a test pilot for the class of aircraft I was dealing with, and I got a lot of satisfaction out of that.

(3) Aerospace Engineering academic. The only qualification I absolutely needed there was my PhD. However, the reality was that I was using my flying knowledge, and my aerospace engineering experience, constantly. I did some research test flying whilst there so technically my CPL was needed - in reality it was the CPL knowledge and experience, not the licence itself most of the time (and in fact the CPL itself I didn't technically need, although I did it whilst in that job, to satisfy myself and avoid difficult questions from the CAA).

(4) Head of a research department, using aeroplanes. Technically, I'm a manager - and neither my flying nor engineering qualifications are needed, nor is my PhD. However, I'm managing researchers, aircrew, and engineers - as well as dealing with various of the same in other organisations. The combination gives me the knowledge and credibility to do the job. The flying reality is that I actually do very little either flying or engineering - the flying is occasionally up the back observing my team, or using a little aeroplane to get somewhere for a meeting. The engineering is mostly management level - signing off proceedures, auditing best practices, investigating solutions proposed by other people.


Doesn't of-course stop me doing ferry flying, bits of light aircraft test flying, and instructing on weekends and days off. Test flying is my biggest single passion, and that certainly requires both the flying and engineering skills - as a friend of mine at USNTPS said a little while ago, a modern test pilot is "An engineer in a flight suit". I've done other bits on the side as well that also used both skillsets - expert witness, bit of TV, and so-on.


So those jobs exist, and they are in my experience superb ones to have if you can get them. I hope and plan that my next move whenever that is will combine my three skillsets again - flying, engineering and research.


However, PHF is right - if you are looking to contract into a standard aero-eng post, no, they just want an engineer with the right technical skills and don't really care about the rest. Similiarly the vast majority of pilot jobs are for pilots only. The biggest exception to this last may be the various militaries, who want pilots who are also officers, and thus usually also graduates, and may well move people between relevant posts.

Also you need to be aware of course that neither a CPL nor a BEng (or even an MEng) is an advanced qualification - both are entry level qualifications and whilst you're entering and learning the job, whether it's as an engineer or a professional pilot, your capacity to learn and develop the other half of your skillset is very limited. I basically managed this by doing both very slowly - but nonetheless I've been in well paid employment, doing stuff with aeroplanes, for 21 years since I graduated with my BEng (the only qualification I have which I did full time, everything else was part time whilst working), so I can't honestly say I have any regrets about taking that route. The idea of being a full time engineer not involved in flying issues, or a pure pilot not doing anything else, just sounds so dull to me. There are certainly people not unlike me in the airlines, or in military flying services but we are all oddballs: I know one airline training captain who uses his degree to manage various safety issues for his airline, and another airline F/O who is head of safety for his airline and actively using his degrees - also quite a few people in flight test organisations around the world, who require both skillsets - as do various military specialists, most astronauts.... So, I like to think we're very important and useful oddballs who are quite well paid, but still oddballs.

[ManUtd1999]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the replies. As always, experience will be key. When you graduate with an MEng, the only options available are 'grad schemes' with the major companies, or some entry level roles with smaller contractors. With experience, the jobs really open up and engineers are in demand worldwide.

Another career I quite like the sound of is ground instructing (ATPL theory type stuff). Presumably an engineering degree would help here, although I guess they want ATPL holders first and foremost?

[portsharbourflyer]

CABAIR many years before going bankrupt had shown an interest in taking me on as a Ground Instructor for the technical subjects. My Engineering experience wasn't necessarily that relevant to teaching the ATPL subjects but the fact I was an Aerospace Engineer may have added creditability to the role.
At that time the only flying experience I had was flight instructing. So yes becoming a ground instructor for the ATPL theory would be viable once you have completed your CPL/IR and ATPL subjects.


However once you have studied aerospace engineering at degree level, teaching ATPL theory would almost be like teaching lower secondary school level stuff. The ATPL theory is quite simplified in some respects. So teaching the ATPL tech subjects will be just teaching the syllabus to what the exams require; quite often it isn't even necessarily technically correct in content. So for an Aero Engineer teaching ATPL theory may not be that satisfying.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the replies. As always, experience will be key. When you graduate with an MEng, the only options available are 'grad schemes' with the major companies, or some entry level roles with smaller contractors. With experience, the jobs really open up and engineers are in demand worldwide.

Another career I quite like the sound of is ground instructing (ATPL theory type stuff). Presumably an engineering degree would help here, although I guess they want ATPL holders first and foremost?

I think that your first paragraph here is a very fair summary of the situation - but don't discount smaller companies, as the breadth of experience gained may be very great.

I doubt that many training providers will want groundschool teachers who haven't passed those exams themselves, and preferably have some form of teaching qualification. But that said - an aero-eng degree is certainly beneficial if you've met the baseline. That said, I don't think it pays very well; I've been offered some, and the money wasn't really worth it for me.

G