3D printing of carbon fibre parts

[tartare]

See this:
The world's first Carbon Fiber 3D Printer (http://markforged.com/)
Obviously in its infancy, but intriguing.
Would there be any benefits to aerospace - doesn't continuous strand manufacture currently require v. expensive machines and autoclaves?

[proteus6]

Seems a bit of a stretch calling this 3D printing, lots of CF is laid up using tape layers, this machine is laying up filiments, I can see it has its uses but many parts could be more quickly made with exsisting technology

[Owain Glyndwr]

Not quite the same thing since it is metal parts not CF, but worth a read

Fighter jet flies with 3D printed parts | Business | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/06/fighter-jet-flies-with-3d-printed-parts)

[deptrai]

This isn't metal: BAE Certifies '3D Printed' Part on BAe 146 Jetliner | Aviation International News (http://ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-air-transport-perspective/2014-01-28/bae-certifies-3d-printed-part-bae-146-jetliner)

"3D printing" sounds like a buzzword, somewhat misleading, it has virtually nothing to do with traditional print techniques, and I doubt it will revolutionize manufacturing overnight, for now it's just a niche thing. I suspect many jump on it to demonstrate how "innovative" they are, to be able to make a press release. Nevertheless as a technophile...why not. It may be worth exploring :) I can't comment on carbon fibres in particular (the original question), but regardless of material, the promise to cut tooling costs seems very interesting, particularly for older a/c and hard to obtain parts today. That's a pretty big market (my immediate thought. So maybe not so much carbon fibre yet? But rather mundane things, like in the above example)

[NWSRG]

Here in Northern Ireland, we have something of a centre of excellence for carbon technology. I managed to get a visit to it a few months ago, and one machine stood out above all others...a weaving loom (much like an old fashioned cotton loom) fed by 1000 bobbins of carbon fibre (and any other fibre of choice). This could weave intricate extrusions such as T-sections or box sections as a continuous piece...once baked, the finished article has no joins. Very impressive. Apparently a large US manufacturer from the north west was interested in the technology...their potential consumption of extruded carbon was apparently heading towards 5km per day! Not sure if that figure is reliable, and it was based on future projections, but you can see how this material is going to become the norm.

[Machdiamond]

I don't see how this is different from classical filament winding that's been used for many years and indeed using the buzzword 3D printing seems to be pushing it.

[Linktrained]

Some may recall that IBM said that there might be a world requirement for less than 10 computers. They sold 19 IBM 701 s in 1953. And then 1800 IBM 650 s in the following years. The architecture was made available to all - or was it nearly all?


Some of the thousands of APPs now available, may have been drafted as a game or small program on a BBC, Spectrum or VIC nearly thirty years ago.


Some one is making me a spider, in plastic, using an amateur 3D Printer. Complex in design and taking a few hours to print. I understand that the actual computing requirement is not very high, so part of a PC could be doing something else


I have read of two other people who are attempting to make an "artificial limb" for use by some of the many disabled children for whom a "proper" limb would not be affordable or often, even available. ( Perhaps the child will need the next size up when the first is worn out, if made of plastic.)


The Multi Bobbin version mentioned sounds promising for an industrial size set-up.

[Linktrained]

"3D printing ".........A Buzz word ?


Many years ago we would listen to "THE WIRELESS"... ( with shared headphones !) Until a new word, "RADIO" , came into common use. And was used, tacked onto the name for many other items, to attract potential users of something NEW, and by association, exciting.


Nearly thirty years ago I obtained a Modem for my Spectrum. I expect that it would have worked, (although slowly). But I knew of no one at the other end of the phone line with whom I could have communicated, then. Perhaps my technology was too advanced !


PS The plastic Spider, mentioned earlier, is all white.

[Chu Chu]

I have to share folks' skepticism. 3-D printing plastic is a fundamentally different process than injection molding. Instead of filling a steel die with molten plastic, you're depositing it drop by drop. Since (most) plastic is homogeneous, you end up with (about) the same product, without the need to machine an expensive steel die.

But to "print" a CF part that's similar in properties to a conventional one, you'd need to lay fibers in the same places and in more-or-less the same order. The printer's just automating the same process that might originally have been done manually. But it's hard to believe there aren't robots doing that already for a lot of parts -- they just aren't called 3-D printers.

[DaveReidUK]

But to "print" a CF part that's similar in properties to a conventional one, you'd need to lay fibers in the same places and in more-or-less the same order. The printer's just automating the same process that might originally have been done manually. But it's hard to believe there aren't robots doing that already for a lot of parts -- they just aren't called 3-D printers.

In other words, the process of laying fibers, whether automated or not, can't possibly be described as "printing".

[Linktrained]

Not a CF man, but I assume that some of the Carbon fibers are laid/ arranged to lie N/S and others E/W, for example ? The earlier "3D Printers" may only be able to use/ extrude their plastic on one direction ( say down ) from the print head. That is a start.


Some, at least, of the thoughts and considerations will transfer to a "proper CF 3D Printer" perhaps sooner than otherwise. And a suitable, "strong plastic" might be developed as an alternative.


Early digital cameras were all B&W until the Bayer filter made colour photographs practical and cheap enough to be unavoidable !


"Wet Plate" processing was still taught for regularFleet St. use in 1945.

[DaveReidUK]

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'

Clearly 3D printing must have been around in 1871. :O

[Linktrained]

Perhaps he had heard of Faraday's remark :


"Of what use is a baby ?"

[Linktrained]

Perhaps someone thought that :
"A few Brabazons would be enough for ALL Trans Atlantic air passengers for the next few decades..."
In the 1940s !

[pattern_is_full]

Seems to me we are splitting hairs when it comes to "laying up" vs. "printing."

Your bog-standard office laser printer "lays up" a discontinuous layer of pigmented plastic dust in the shape of letters (which are then heat-fused to bond the plastic particles to the paper and each other).

The letters are even slightly raised (3D) although it takes an electron microscope to see this. Run your memo through the printer a couple of dozen times (assuming you can get consistent paper repositioning to the nanometer) and the letters will build up into a 3D structure sensible to the finger and naked eye.

That's pretty much how all 3D printing works (although the materials and devices vary as much as, say, aircraft in 1914) - "run the memo through the printer a couple of dozen (or thousand) times" to build up a shape in the 3rd dimension.

Given that this printing technology dates to the Xerography process (1938), updated to computer control (in concept, 1968; in a commercial device, 1983) - it is pretty "traditional" by this point in history.

Given that one can now 3D-print with common sheets of paper (by introducing a cutting laser to the mix as well as deposited material) - it doesn't seem like a big reach to replace the paper sheets with carbon-fiber sheets.

How Paper-based 3D Printing Works | BL 3Dimension Corp (http://bl3dimension.com/how-paper-based-3d-printing-works/)

Which may be similar to what markforged is doing.

[Linktrained]

An early 3D program for the Spectrum computers was VU-3D made by Psion in 1982. Printers then available might use themal paper l ( still used on cash tills )

Classes in " COMPUTING" were held at evening classes, locally. Few then anticipated something on a wrist, with camera and telephone.

The A350 XWB is said to have over a THOUSAND components made by 3 D printing. Presumbly if they are lighter this reduces the weight carried throughout the aircrafts life. ( Think in terms of the 3% of fuel per hour when tankered fuel is carried.)

My local Public Library has more than a dozen DIFFERENT 3D printers for use by the general public, with volunteer supervision. One router can deal with pieces up to 3 ft, long. Others are smaller in capacity, some havea ( limited ) colour capability.

The " Theory of 3D Printing" can be taught and practiced at small expense.

Others have built a Jet engine or a full sized Motor cycle. but both I think, out of plastic.

Houses are designed and built in a few places.

I hesitate to predict too far !