EK Employing more Indians

[Going_Manual]

Just a thought, why don't EK Employ more Indian pilots? all EK pilots seem to be Western pilots, if your ever in DXB and listen to 118.35, 9/10 of the EK pilot will have a British/American or Australian voice, same could be said for FZ.


From a business perspective if these big players opened up to all the unemployed pilots in India I would guestimate they could cut there crewing costs by up to 75% in reduced wages.


I am not Indian myself, but it just bears a thought for the future.

[ironbutt57]

Loads of Indian nationals at all carriers here in the Gulf...can't see why they would cost less...their skill sets seem to match everybody else's therefore they are paid the same as everybody else...

[Mister Warning]

Going_Manual - Perhaps if they payed idiots less than Indians, you could personally save them 100%.

[Going_Manual]

Mister Warning - Next time your in Dubai just have a listen to the radio and tell me I am wrong about EK and that the majority are Indian voices:ugh:


Ironbutt - I am not disputing that Indian pilots are any less of a talent than Western pilots, but it is a fact that Indian carriers like Spice jet, Indigo etc get paid much less than the likes of EK pilots, they work for less money is the point I was making, I never said that it was RIGHT they get paid less:ugh:

[Murrenfan]

Couldn't agree more. Why would you start such a stupid racist thread like this? Going Manual you really should get a life bro and stop embarrassing our class.
Mfan

[south coast]

Murrenfan

Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, I don't read it as being racist, I just think he has poorly explained what he thinks a global economy means, ie outsourcing to where labour costs are cheaper.

That is not a racist statement or practice, it happens every where and actually is just a sad fact that somewhere a country can do the same job as another for cheaper.

[Going_Manual]

Murrenfan - I Not a racist, are you trying to say that Indians get paid on the same level as western folks? have a look at the airlines in your country and tell me they are on par with the western world!


If anything I should be thanked as what I have suggested if it ever happened would give work to thousands of unemployed Indian pilots! I am a hero if anything.


You are racist for suggesting this be a race issue IMHO.

[ironbutt57]

You are mistaken and confused..all Indian pilots as expats here are paid same as everyone else...pay scales in India are another matter but I daresay if one offered an Indian pilot a job here on a lower pay scale, that pilot would politely show them where to stick it...:ok:

[Going_Manual]

The reason for starting the discussion is not at all intended to offend or upset anyone.


My reason for starting the thread came after reading another thread in the Asia forum about the masses of unemployed Indian pilots.


Now you cannot deny that every voice you hear when coming from an EK call sign is that of the western world, e.g. British or American I am talking about ground 118.35 tower 118.75/119.55 even UAE 124.85 if an EK call sign is talking to ATC it is always a westerner!! always! you cannot deny this!


If EK want global domination and even bigger profits, my question is why don't they take advantage of the unemployment in India and take on the Indian pilots with a lesser salary?


If they did do it, and the Indians were agreeable to a lesser salary can you imagine the cost savings for EK?


Average Salary for an FO with an Indian carrier is $37,000 per year you cant argue that.
Average Salary for an FO with Emirates is $128,000 per year!! you also cant argue this fact!


I am not being a racist, I am just pointing out that these chaps are just as capable as Western pilots, agreed? so why not exploit them


@Ironbutt - that's great they get the same scale!! I don't dispute it, but where are they?!? I don't hear any Indian voices coming from EK call sign!

[ironbutt57]

1) the masses of unemployed Indian pilots are recent CPL grads which do not qualify for here

2) any Indian pilot qualified to fly here would most definitely not accept a lower pay scale

3) your comments besides being asinine are most certainly racist

4) I personally know several senior TRE Indian nationals at EK

now continue on with your absurd observations...and await further response..I'm out

[scandistralian]

This bloke is either a Troll or a few holes short of a golf course..:ugh:

If it is the latter; the unemployed Indian pilots are all CPL holders, Emirates hire worldwide, sans bias, but you must meet the minimum experience levels.

[Going_Manual]

Ironbutt - I'm sorry but you lose this argument! YOU CANNOT!! deny that there are hardly any Indian voices coming from EK planes!! you cannot!! sorry but have I gone completely insane here?! someone please back me up on this fact!


You cannot speak for other Indian pilots and whether they would or would not take a lower pay scale, you can say you would not accept, but that's you not them sir!


The CPL holders you talk of are the same guys I am talking about...


My point of view is visionary not current, I know the requirements for EK:ugh:


Ironbutt & Scandistrlian - OK so you are telling me with your hand on your heart that there is equal amount of Indian pilots in EK & FZ as those pilots from the Western world? say there are 10,000 pilots in each 5,000 are Indian,Pakistan etc and the other 5,000 are Brits,Yanks,Aussies, Euros etc, that what your saying yes????

[dubaigong]

Going Manual,

First , the cost of life in India is a lot less than here , so it is one of the reason why Indian pilots are paid less than the EK ones.
Second , the salary you are talking about is not valid for all the Indian companies , some pay a lot more than that for their first officers.
Third , I have been contacted many time by agencies offering a job for an Indian company , so can you explain to e why these Indian pilots are not filling these available job then ?
Fourth , I have Indian fellow pilots in my company and there are paid exactly the same money as any other pilot , I doubt that your suggestion will really please them...

[scandistralian]

Some good old fashioned mining the cost chain, maybe we could send all our maids to flight school to do 250 hours and then fly for $1500/month

Going Manual, this isn't a flying club, it is a serious international airline with a diverse and highly challenging scope of operation. Minimum experience levels and the cost of hiring professional experienced pilots is assessed against the benefits and risks of lowering experience requirements.

As stated earlier most Indian pilots I know in EK are former Captains and set a very high standard for which they are appropriately remunerated.

But be sure to send your thoughts to EK, I am sure they will value and reward your "visionary" solution, they might even offer you 15 of their "special" tickets as a reward :E

[Going_Manual]

The year is 2040 and planes are much easier to fly and handle


we need a large work force but at the same time as cost effective as possible.




Enter the EK Board of directors AGM
oh remember Going_Manual's thread on employing Indian CPL grads for EK to save 75% on flight crew cost's, I must remember to thank him for the suggestion. we are now on course for global domination


oh and all those other prune members where slagging him off saying oh he's a troll, get a life, your silly that's not in the rule book! "GUILTY GET A NEW RULE BOOK"

[single chime]

He wants an "ICadet" scheme ala CX.

[Rich8a10]

This must be the most stupid topic I have read on this forum :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[south coast]

Benefit withdrawn...

How can you be so crazy as to run a two tier system for doing the same job, that is discriminatory for sure.

The only outcome of that would be that the lower pay scale would soon become the standard and everyone loses except for the company.

Obviously standards would reduce due to massively reduced morale and a lower level of experience.

Perhaps you stick as the rocket scientist that you are!

[crewmeal]

Going_Manual if you spend your time glued to 118.35 or any other frequency trying to work out nationalities then you are barking up the wrong tree. Try to realise that not all Indians have "Indian accents" I know of 2 Indians with Scottish accents and I work with Brummie Indians as well, whose accents are far from anything you refer to.

If you want to do a survey like that why not ask EK direct? To me this is a pointless unneccessary thread :ugh:

[Going_Manual]

OK well we will all agree that there is equal Indians to westerners in EK!
end of discussing thank you very much for clearing that up.


As I say when I listen to the radio I don't hear any Indian accents, but the chap has assured me that those western voices are infact Indians, so I am at fault, I'm sorry I must look really silly now http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

[south coast]

Didn't know EK ran p2f?

P2f are paid differently based on agreement that they enter into in return for a rating or some other silly notion...

However, what you are suggesting is a particular nationality is paid less to do the same job but based on nothing other than nationality.

As ridiculous as p2f is, as one sided as it appears, it still remains a contract based on supposed mutual benefits, I don't see that in your example.

You have now removed your post that this refers to....get confused?

[ManaAdaSystem]

I am not Indian myself, but it just bears a thought for the future.

Really? I don't know why I don't belive you.

[Xulu]

Well as my and other European airlines do. EK could open a 'base' in Delhi and transfer people there on an inferior contract.

Infact why stop at pilots. Let's fire every Brit in every job in the UK, and replace them with an Indian counterpart? It's genius.

The salary is already low at EK saving them a lot of money. It is only attractive due to the tax-free status.

[OnceBitten]

Going manual, by any chance do you work in the area of staff travel? :rolleyes:

[Going_Manual]

Staff travel? errr no I don't I am a 747-200 Captain for Midex.


I am no longer involved in this discussion apprentley I am wrong about EK favouring westerners and that Indian pilots are plentiful in EK so no more to discuss. my point was originally saying there should be more Indians in EK! hardly racist is it :rolleyes:! and also a soloution to the unemployed CPL holders in India that they join EK on reduced salary, its a fair enough comment, I mean they don't have the experience.


IMHO I don't think it is that hard to fly your A380/777 aircrafts, I would even go to say that anyone could do it with the right training.


Anyone could be taught to drive a car, the same goes with flying an airliner, its not so difficult.


Why pilots think they are gods gift to aviation and need huge salary's and need to feel important is beyond me, you know some of the cab drivers in Dubai are on 3k AED per month for doing a similar job, moving people from A to B. I personally feel aviation and pilots should be paid normal salarys for doing normal jobs, these figures of 10k US per month is an outrage in my opinion, I would fly for much less, a fair salary would be 4k US maximum!!


anyways Im done with this thread, I have said my piece if you don't like it that's ok, but you know what....I speak a bit of truth there

[jack schidt]

CARRY ON!! nothing more to say here except, perhaps if EK stood down all the local pilots then that would save money and more westerners could be employed. Cheaper piloting of the airline was the thread line was it not? Regarding the engineers, we need more people from close continents to help the already struggling line guys, now that would be more proactive GM.

Honestly, regarding Indian pilots, they are here in EK so answer complete. There is just a fact that they are not allowed to talk on the radios as it is designed to annoy people who troll the DXB frequencies and make silly statements on PPRUNE forums.

[ironbutt57]

Midex hires cheap pilots...why worry about the rest of the carriers...

[Murrenfan]

Simply can't believe this guy is a pilot. But he had his 5 minutes of fame anyways. We shouldn't reply anymore. I'm out.
Mfan

[theidler]

Midex Airlines is a cargo airline based in the United Arab Emirates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midex_Airlines#cite_note-FI09-1) Licenced for both cargo and passenger services in 2007, the airline concentrates on scheduled cargo services. Passenger service never started. Scheduled cargo service has been operated from Al Ain to Paris ORY for few months and subsequently closed due to lack of freight. A300 fleet grounded in May 2012. All crew members laid off without respecting the UAE labor law and the company has been brought to court to settle the dispute in June 2012. One B747-200F is in Jakarta from 2011 for C check. It is not expected to resume operations anytime soon due to missing spare parts. The two additional B747-200F that Midex announced have been bought on the official website never showed up in the UAE with Midex logo.

Midex Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midex_Airlines)

[Javadreaming]

No way is going manual a professional pilot... I would guess a indian national with a fresh CPL or perhaps just a flight sim pilot....But I do love the wind up.

On a serious note. I have been told that airlines are very, very careful when hiring Indians as unfortunately so many individuals from this nation have forged qualifications or bribed someone to get a licence. A sad state of affairs for the honest guys/girls from India.

[Going_Manual]

The idler - Hey don't slag off Midex we are the UAE number 1 airline and will soon over take EK and EY when our passenger operations start, I have been in talks with management to head up the project so watch this space and weep when you come to me begging for a job on one of our 747-200's!!


we are looking in to restoring the L1011's that are up at RAK and starting a new LoCo service to Jakarta and Hong Kong, new features that would include Boeing sky interior and onboard bar and casino. this is not yet confirmed yet due to loop holes in UAE Gambling laws.


We will see, but don't slag off Midex, we have started small just like EK did, and will flourish with our cost effective plan and the restoration of old classic aircraft!


EK spend 300 million on a 777 and pay over the odds for there western pilots, us at Midex can restore an L1011 and have it good to go for under 10 Million, plus our cost effective crew policy will make us UAE number 1 by 2020

[Wizofoz]

So, It seems the pubs have closed....

[Plazbot]

Come on! I saw Ultimate Airport Dubai. Plenty of Indians and Pakistanis. Far too many tucking Australians though.

[Going_Manual]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5899996672/hE10A9408/ (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=6QuZlNFm0IRwfM&tbnid=Q27r0OM0g3HJ-M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcheezburger.com%2F5899996672&ei=zU3lUu-_GoOm0QXg84CwCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.bGE&psig=AFQjCNF8ZGrc9IKApZ1E5CnrmwWgGvmOUw&ust=1390845746617583)

[donpizmeov]

You know I really think this idea has merit. But instead of Indians think of the savings if it was pigmys. Less cloth in uniforms, they might eat less ration wise, less weight leading to fuel savings. This is revolutionary stuff.

The don

[Plazbot]

A second EK Knighthood to you Sirdon

[Capt Jack Rosen]

Personally I think flying is a privilege and lots of people would love to fly. I say we make the pilots pay for the privilege of flying a nice brand new airplane. why pay low wages to Indians when I am sure you can find people around the world to pay you to do the job.

[Boeingrestricted]

" You know I really think this idea has merit. But instead of Indians think of the savings if it was pigmys. Less cloth in uniforms, they might eat less ration wise, less weight leading to fuel savings. This is revolutionary stuff.

The don "

ROFL ,now this is a style adoptable by somebody a little north.

(oh and btw I really like most of the Indians I know, pilot or not)

[south coast]

It's not a privilege to fly, it's a job, granted a good one that perhaps many would like to have, there's a difference.

[crewmeal]

Hey don't slag off Midex we are the UAE number 1 airline and will soon over take EK and EY when our passenger operations start, I have been in talks with management to head up the project so watch this space and weep when you come to me begging for a job on one of our 747-200's!!

Oh pleaseeeeee! World domination wow. I watched a James Bond film this afternoon

From Russia with love (1963) - Death of Kronsteen - YouTube

[Trader]

Manual---India is one out of about 200 countries. Why should Indians make up half of EK???

[glofish]

..... because they account for about 95% of the world's logged hours above 55 tons .....

[BeCareful]

..... because they account for about 95% of the world's logged hours above 55 tons .....

*ding ding ding*

We have a winner!

[Craggenmore]

Rightly or wrongly, no insurer would touch EK if what you say happened Going_Manual.

And if they did, the massive increase in premium would more than negate the pilot salary saving.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

a) No insurance, as big enough to cover any hull loss.


b) Nominal self insurance, by shareholders, much like a).


c) Insure in local market, much like a).


d) Insure in international market.


My money is on a)b)c).


glf

[stealthpilot]

If anything I should be thanked as what I have suggested if it ever happened would give work to thousands of unemployed Indian pilots! I am a hero if anything.More like a muppet :D

[PPRuNe Towers]

The troll went for a bit of a long term lie down about 12 hours ago

Rob

[frexpat]

Troll has a name. :suspect:
Check the Lao Central thread on SE Asia.

[Warlock2000]

I am no longer involved in this discussion apprentley I am wrong about EK favouring westerners

Hey moron, firstly it's "you're" and not "your". Secondly, EK is doing just fine with pilot recruiting and all candidates are considered - the good ones are recruited.

PS: These 2 hit were top of my google search....

India arrests two more airline pilots with fake certificates - USATODAY.com (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2011-03-22-india-fake-airline-pilots.htm)
Fake pilots: DGCA fast-tracks verification : North, News - India Today (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/fake-pilots-scam-dgca-fast-tracks-verification-of-pilots/1/133670.html)

So if you're not hearing enough Indian accents on the radio, ask yourself why.
:cool:

[worldrover]

Warlock, don't even bother.

Check this moron's other posts. Apparently he is a troll that got uncovered.
I thought he was Indian but looks like he is American.

[Buckshot16]

Well said Rich8a10, something not right with the lad ... I guess GM will need to leave that name behind and use another email to start all over again.

[OnceBitten]

Put it in perspective guys,

It was a good Laugh!

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and taste like duck,

It's probably a duck! :rolleyes:

Good on you manuals for giving us a good chuckle for 3 pages. :ok:

By the way, are you thinking of a career in the staff travel area, we need a mathematician like yourself and unfortunately Alan Joyce is busy at the moment! :E

[GNL]

....well they have made a good start by making staff fares cheaper to the region....did it move closer ?.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

if the Indians allow the 380. will this be the new CREW BUS...... shuttle to work.


glf

[glock320]

is it true that EK is going to nationalized

[Wizofoz]

"Nationalised'?

It is already owned by the Dubai Government, how much more "Nationalised" can it get?

[west atc]

I think sadly the DG of the GCAA must read Pprune, there are rumours that ATC in SZC might be going exactly this way, why pay Western expats when you get Indian controllers for half the money. Have fun holding at DESDI and BUBIN in a couple of years guys, you may want to pay very close attention to your TCAS when in the hold!

[VijayMallya]

going manual.... i support you...

gimme a shiny 380 and i'll fly it for my existing salary... :}

[Gonetilltuesday]

Plenty of Indians in the office:E

[ironbutt57]

Pay all the staff you shafted first VJ

[scandistralian]

Imagine how many of those CPL's could get online MBA's and replace the Executive Management Team too... Going Manual should be offered an Honorary Doctorate in Visionary Human Resource Management Muppet Theory from any of the Top 100 online universities offering non-certified fast track degrees....

[ruserious]

The reality of recruitment here, is that on balance, the good applicants get through and the not so good don't. Are there nationalities that do better than others, absolutely. Is it a conspiracy, not really, I am pretty sure they will take every Indian they can that is up to the specified standard.

[masalama]

I believe the original OP was a wind up, unemployed CPL holder of any country , whether US , UK, AUS,NZ, India, Pakistan would not get a chance in any of the carriers but a few points if one were to look at the move from an Indian carrier to the middle east (say P1 A320/B737NG ) to a FZ/AA as a P1 or as P2 with EK/hide at/Qatar.

Purely from a financial POV , unless you could save twice or more what you'd save here in India , IMHO it's not worth being an expat. Remember, once you leave and don't renew your licenses >5 years, your ATPL papers have to be written again and we all know how that's gonna be.You will also give up your seniority which might not mean much now but talk to any 9W pilot who left 10 years ago .....:sad:

Yes today the difference in salary is 50% but I know that's not going to be the case in 10 years time .10 years ago , my take home as a P1 on a narrowbody here in India was 30% of what my take home is today , that's a 300% pay rise. I would hazard a guess to say that 10 years from now , the gap in pay & emoluments between our carriers and the middle east carriers would further narrow . The cost of living and education or simple things like domestic help etc. are always going to be way more expensive in these countries.

Now, a lot of the pilots that leave Indian carriers are not leaving purely on the financial package being offered. A chance to fly worldwide on a widebody or a change in lifestyle ( unhappy with dealing with the mess that is living in India) or just a change in scenery... some have left ,not liked it and returned too ....to each his own I say.

I like the suggestion about hiring pygmies and fuel/weight savings ...beancounters might actually look into it:ok:

masalama.

[VijayMallya]

Kinda broke these days ironman 57...


PS: I know i wrote ironman and not ironbutt ;)

[ironbutt57]

hahahaha...sure made waste of daddy's hard work...:cool:

[ironbutt57]

First time I operated to CDG is was cheerily greeted by an Indian ground staff.."welcome to France"...we are truly globalised :ok:

[VijayMallya]

Russell Peters - Beige - YouTube


In about 200 years from now, we all are gonna be hybrid mix of Indians and Chinese...


With the two largest population in the world... Sooner or later we're gonna get you :}

[White Knight]

eat less ration wise, less weight leading to fuel savings.

Thanks bud.............. 😬😬😬

[ironbutt57]

I went to see Russell Peters here without really knowing what to expect...well worth the money...

[nador2707]

Going Manual,

There is one main reason that Emirates does not employ many Indian pilots. It is called an interview.

[masalama]

nador 2707 says Going Manual,

There is one main reason that Emirates does not employ many Indian pilots. It is called an interview.

And you substantiate that comment with statistically proven failure rate comparison of Indian pilots to the rest of the world.Or is it that you believe Indians don't get called to the interview .So , could you give us a figure , Nador, how does the Indian pilot fare at EK interview compared to the rest of the world????

Sorry guys, had to bite , couldnt resist .

masalama:ok:

[Trim Stab]

I've no idea about EK, but a company I used to fly for never interviewed Indian pilots because of concerns about the validity of their qualifications and logbooks. There was a perception that there was so much corruption in Indian aviation training that all Indian candidates were regarded as a risk. Obviously tough for all the genuine and able Indian pilots out there.

[cyrilroy21]

@ Trim Stab

Unfortunately what a lot of companies dont realise is that about 80% of the Indian Pilots did not learn to fly in India
Most of them went abroad to countries like US , Canada , Australia etc and then came back and converted their foreign CAA licenses

Although I dont think the perception of Indian pilots outside India is going to change for the better any time soon ( especially after the FAA downgrade )

[haveago]

For the record the many indian pilots I have flown with at EK in my opinion are very capable and very professional!

[NG_Kaptain]

For the record the many indian pilots I have flown with at EK in my opinion are very capable and very professional!
But at the other airline the son-in -law of one of the TRI's was charged with assaulting another pilot on a layover.

[ROKAPE]

First time I operated to CDG is was cheerily greeted by an Indian ground staff.."welcome to France"...we are truly globalised :ok:

True 'globalisation' will occur when a Frenchman says "welcome to India" in DEL. And before you think as a Frenchman there is no way I would take a job like that in India...you can't. Nor can you obtain an Indian passport or own land.

It seems immigration, racism and 'globalisation' is only applicable to Europe, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA.

[dcbus]

Pilots aren'nt racists??? They're Professional!
This Thread has has exposed enough racist bigots, no matter how they put it. Very poor show indeed.

[heloguy412]

You do realize that Indians are not a "race". They are a culture, therefore the people you are attacking are not racists, they are culturalists.

[Wizofoz]

Meh...

Scientifically, there is no actually classification of "Race"

Culture is a similarly imprecise term.

"Racist", "Culturalist", "Nationalist" are all merely imprecise sub-sets of the term "Bigot"