surrendering or defecting

[mr fish]

back in my long ago youth reading commando style picture books, the accepted method of surrender or defection was to waggle wings and lower undercarridge.


this happened often when the bad guy (mostly german,sometimes japanese) was injured or out of height, speed, ideas etc.


was this just 'boys own' war book make believe or is there, was there ever an accepted method of giving up the fight ??






mr fish.

[minigundiplomat]

French Version

de retour dans mes longues livres il ya d'images de style commando de lecture des jeunes, la méthode acceptée de cession ou de défection était de waggle ailes et undercarridge inférieure.

ce qui est arrivé souvent quand le méchant (surtout les allemands, parfois japonais) a été blessé ou hors de hauteur, la vitesse, idées, etc

était-ce juste là "garçons possèdent« livre de guerre faire croire ou est-il, n'a jamais été une méthode acceptée de renoncer à la lutte?

Italian Version

torna nei miei lunghi fa la lettura giovanile di stile commando libri illustrati, il metodo accettato di arrendersi o defezione era di waggle ali e minore undercarridge.

questo è accaduto spesso quando il cattivo (principalmente tedesco, a volte giapponese) è stato ferito o di altezza, velocità, idee ecc

Era questo solo 'boys proprio' libro di guerra far credere o è lì, c'ero mai un metodo accettato di rinunciare alla lotta?

There, you may get some responses now.........



:E

[Biggus]

But in the "commando" style books of the OPs youth, it was normally a plucky Brit trying to surrender. Having escaped from the "Hun", stolen a "Jerry" aircraft and making their way back to "Blighty" they were intercepted by a flight of "Spits", and had to surrender to avoid being shot down by their own side.....

At least that's how I remember it... ;)

[Tankertrashnav]

In his book Requiem for a Wren, (1955) Neville Shute describes an incident when a Wren shoots down a Ju 188 with an Oerlikon on the shores of the Solent. The aircaft lowers its undercarriage as it is being attacked, but is hit, and crashes killing all the occupants. These turn out to be Czech and Polish aircrew who have stolen the aircraft and are escaping to England.

Shute was a Lt Cdr RNVR during the war and could usually be relied upon to check his facts before writing his books, so I'm guessing the undercarriage lowering to indicate surrender was fact, and fairly common knowledge at the time.

[Ivor Fynn]

Minigun,

You owe me a new keyboard (coffee all over it!)

Ivor

[The Helpful Stacker]

Not sure about how pilots surrender these days but those with 'Hearts of Oak' heave to, lay down their iPods, adopt the position and prepare to receive boarders. ;)

[Biggus]

T H S,

But they do get a natty suit for free as part of the experience...!

[The Helpful Stacker]

But they do get a natty suit for free as part of the experience...!

Indeed. Who'd have thought the Iranians have a contract with Snaith and Son too?

[Wander00]

TTN - some years back on 5 June we went to a dramatic presentation of Requiem for a Wren at Exbury, where it was written (and where the Ju was shot down). The seats were in military trucks and scenes were set on different parts of the estate. Last part was a representation of the Overlord outload (and we were watching this on the night of 5 June) on Lepe Beach in wind and rain - hairs stood up on the back of my neck it was so atmospheric.

[Torquelink]

I first read this as "surrendering or defecating". I suppose that attempting the former in a hostile environment might result in the latter . . .:O

[NutLoose]

The problem with dropping gear is that it could drop from being damaged in an attack, so you may think he is surrendering when in fact it's just battle damage.

Incidentally little known snippet, the Germans experimented with fitting a flame thrower in the tail of some of their bombers to put off attacking fighters, they found it had the opposite effect as the fighter pilots thought they were causing damage and setting it alight, so pressed home the attack.... they soon kicked the idea into touch.

[NutLoose]

There were some incredible acts of mercy too

Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler incident | ELLIOT LAKE News (http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/tag/charlie-brown-and-franz-stigler-incident/)

expanded version

Amazing tale of a desperate WWII pilot?s encounter with a German flying ace | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2012/12/09/amazing-tale-of-a-desperate-wwii-pilots-encounter-with-a-german-flying-ace/)

[Mortmeister]

Nutloose,
What an amazing story, hit me like a freight train. Many thanks for sharing that!

[N2erk]

I guess there still was some chivalry and decency in WW2- not so sure about some of the other content on the Elliot Lake (mining town turned retirement 'haven') website.
Minigun's post made more sense when I read the last sentence!:)

Re the thread- don't many modern military aircraft have red/yellow or yellow/black handles in the cockpit that could allow surrender, defection, or hors-de-combat status for the crew :E

[Tankertrashnav]

Wander 00 - very interesting. I think I have read all of Shute's books, and enjoyed them all, particularly as most have at least some aviation content. I wouldnt mind seeing some of them serialised for TV - I'm sure that many would convert well to the small screen.

[Wander00]

TTN - I read the whole cannon years ago, and remember seeing the 50s film No highway, I think it was called. I agree - some potentially very good movies there


W

[chevvron]

A full list of signals to be made by aircraft are contained in the UK AIP at section ENR 1.12-2. Sorry I don't know how to cut and paste it on here and the address is too long to re-produce for a link.
It consists of signals made by intercepting aircraft and responses (including lowering/raising of undercarriage) by intercepted aircraft.

[SirToppamHat]

See Here:

Appropriate Section of the AIP Here (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/eais-2FB09097185E604AAADBFDE958FD6262/3QDXTD5E6YWTY/EN/2014-01-09-AIRAC/html/eAIP/EG-ENR-1.12-en-GB.html#ENR-1.12)

STH