AFPS15 OTE, Anybody going to return the form?

[SteveTonks]

So with 31Jan rapidly approaching I was wondering if anybody was actually going to return the form, let alone actually accept.

[Willard Whyte]

Glad I've got a job in the real world.

And a '75 pension on top, natch.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Just shifting my '75 pension abroad & cashing in

Take The Money And Run - The Steve Miller Band (Lyrics + HQ) - YouTube

[Megawart]

Fox3, do you mean to say you're transferring your AFPS 75 abroad via QROPS and taking it as cash? Is this possible?

[Avtur]

Given the lack of responses here on this subject, can one assume this is a non-event?

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Like GlassCollector says, it's a non event. Your 38/16 point remains an optional retirement date that you can take with 12 months' notice, so you don't lose that out (and if you do take it, you still get your pension on compulsory retirement terms, not PVR terms).

If you do decide to stay an extra couple of years (exact figure depending on your and your circumstances), then on retirement you'll get a slightly larger AFPS75 pension if your pay's increased, and you'll also get AFPS15 EDPs rather than having to wait until age 60 to get anything from that section of your pension.

If you're in the PAS bracket, PAS terms (this year at least) stay the same, so if you get an offer it'll take effect at your 38/16 point and the 5 year amortisation period starts then too.

I'm not in the bracket and didn't receive one, but from talking to colleagues who're approaching that stage at length there seems to be literally no reason not to take it right now, considering it doesn't remove your 38/16 point.

The only negative I can see is if you're considering PAS and you're not going to feature on this year's board, then you'll end up shifting the start of your PAS career to the 20yr service point.

Hope I'm accurate; the above represents the collective crewroom wisdom of my squadron!

[snakepit]

Where do I sign!

Opps, I forgot I retired 4 years ago

[scientia in alto]

5S6B,

To my knowledge you are exactly right. My poster indicated that PAS may change slightly in the coming years to a 3yr amortisation beyond the 38 yr point. Worth asking your deskie about that, as signing a 5yr amortisation, when a 3 yr amortisation is in the pipeline would surely make people bitter!

I was also told that I could take the extension, and then if I still wanted PAS, exercise my original 38 point option (1 year in advance). This would then place me on the PAS board. Taking the option with the hope of PAS is IMO a riskier approach as under the old 38 point, I'd at least have access to all of the service leaving benefits at an earlier point.

There is also the push factor of being a lvl 9 Flt Lt waiting a further 4 years for PAS. It'd make me a 42 year old starting on the PAS payspine… then having to serve a further 5yrs rendering me a 47yr old to get a PAS pension. Significantly older than holding tight and looking to get PAS pre-38 point.

It is also worth looking heavily at the pension calculator as everyones circumstances will be different. There is an awful lot of maths to do and forecasting on the pilot recruiting market around your 38 point. On the last manning flyer they state that 400 pilot ground jobs have been delinked to aircrew. I suggest that the manning plot may be tight wrt future pilot manning levels. There is chat in my office at least of FRIs being used to stem the outflow.

I think you may be a able to tell I am not so keen. The calculator indicates a minimal uplift in gratuity (without PAS) and pension, whilst there is no information on PAS within the offer timeline. Another example of a rushed change without a holistic approach to the renumeration package and conditions.

Lastly… Will your poster indicate where you'll likely be, for the period of your
extension? .. mine wouldn't commit, so with PAS & job unclear, I didn't.

SIA

[Whenurhappy]

Without going into too many details, I am still on AFPS 75, but was offered an extension beyond 55 to see out my next (extended) tour. One concern I had was the impact that this would have on my pension entitlement. I wrote to SPVA and sought a written confirmation that my entitlements, inter alia, would remain the same.

It took a threat of a service complaint - and intervention by the CE - to receive a proper written response; the earlier response consisted of a YouTube link, and with a carefully worded 'we don't know'. This is due, in part, to SPVA being hollowed out of both civilian and Service personnel. Nonetheless, if a private pension provider refused supply an account of pension entitlements, I would be off to the FCA in a shot!

I have to say, I still have unqualifiable concerns that I will be migrated across to AFPS 15 for the period of my extension.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

SIA, good points, some I hadn't thought of.

It depends on where you see your career ending; in most cases for early-to-mid-30s level 9 Flt Lts like myself, the extra 2 years or so will give you a noticeable uptake in pension by enabling the AFPS15 EDP.

On the other hand, if you don't get a PA offer this year, it's certainly a negative as you've delayed entry to the pay spine by another couple of years.

Pension calculator seems little use, as I don't believe it really understands "future PAS" that well yet. Marking time for 6 years at level 9 waiting for PAS is bad enough, adding 2 or more years to that seems pretty untenable.

It only seems to make sense, with hindsight, for people who were definitely sure of leaving at their option point, and who'd like the option to stay around for an extra couple of years to elevate the pension slightly. If you have PAS ambitions beyond this year's board then it's a bit of a negative...... promotion I guess it wouldn't affect, but that's its own conversation!

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

On the other hand, if you don't get a PA offer this year


Manning have stated, since Christmas, that accepting the OTE will not prevent you being offered PAS on this year's board. Therefore, if you don't get offered PAS, it's not because you accepted the OTE!


My poster indicated that PAS may change slightly in the coming years to a 3yr amortisation beyond the 38 yr point. Worth asking your deskie about that, as signing a 5yr amortisation, when a 3 yr amortisation is in the pipeline would surely make people bitter!


My understanding (again, from a brief earlier this month) was that the proposed change will still see a 5-year amortisation, but this will start from the date of accepting PAS, not from the 38/16 point. However, the individual would still need to serve 5 years on PAS to qualify for PAS pension rights.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Torque, I understand that the OTE has no bearing on PAS offers; but from what I understood, anyone who accepted the OTE and shifted their IRD from 38/16 to 40/20, and was offered PAS this year, could still accept PAS based on their original 38/16 IRD.

If offered next or subsequent years, you'd move to PAS on your revised 40/20 IRD.

So if I were to be offered it this year and accept it I'd move to the PAS spine at 38. If I'm not offered this year but am next year, having accepted the OTE, I wouldn't start on PAS until 40.

2 years longer to mark time on level 9 Flt Lt, and 2 levels lower when you do subsequently leave. If PAS features in your future, I don't think the OTE is the best plan.

If leaving at 40 as a level 9 Flt Lt seems tenable, and you were planning on leaving at 38, then it give you a useful uplift in pension. If you're thrusting for promotion and a career then it's virtually moot, but those of us mulling the thought of PAS in the future? A bit more awkward.

[Guest_22]

I think Mr Tonks started this thread to get affirmation of HIS own decision. I have said it before and I'll say it again:

It's your decision to make, do the numbers and actually work out what you want from the RAF or your future career.

If you are reading this thread, you have time to sign the form (if you haven't already). The OTE paperwork didn't make it clear what happens if you don't return the form: automatic extension or automatic decline of the offer; who knows?

I, for one, declined.

[SteveTonks]

Thanks for the discussion. I wasn't after reassurance on my decision. I have made my mind up and like most of you feel that it's not for me.

Like guest has said the paperwork was unclear as to what a nil return would yeald. I know of many whom won't be returning the form in order to remain non committal...

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Guest, it may be my career and my decision alone to make, but like some, I quite like to hear what my peers and colleagues might have chosen and why. I think discussing something like this, openly and honestly, with a frank opinion of what you might want to achieve in the future is essential.

Someone here might be in the exact same situation as me, but have a better understanding of part of the terms... or someone might just understand how the pension calculator works better than I do!

No harm in canvassing opinion and fact checking before you put pen to paper. I haven't signed yet (although a recent conversation with the AFPS2015 cell at HQ Air makes me pretty certain a non-return is a "no"), and the more information I can gather before deciding, the more informed my decision will be.

Personally, I think I'm more likely to stay in for PAS than I am for any sudden career push; and if I decide I don't enjoy the job enough for a potential PAS offer, then an extra chunk a month or so isn't enough to sway me to stay for another 2 years.

[Al R]

For what it's worth, if the Lib Dems get in as part of a coalition, they want to reduce the lifetime allowance even further.. it'll probably affect O6.

[BlindWingy]

According to AP3393, vol 1, para7318 (as emphasized on the acceptance certificate), if you do exercise an ORD, manning can delay your exit by up to 3 years! Can anyone confirm?

[Just This Once...]

No, the 3 year regulation pertains to how long manning can defer your ORD (say due to promotion or an RoS) rather than how long they can keep you in having exercised your ORD.

[Stronomas]

For all those procrastinators out there approaching zero hour. A nil return is classed as a “nothing”. #sitonthefenceabitlonger.