Any advise before starting my PPL??

[djla86]

Hi,

Iv never posted on a forum before so hope im in the right section.
Im struggling to find the information i require online when searching as there seems to be so much that makes no sense.

Im wondering if someone can recommend a website or anywhere that i can find out what order things are done in/i need to do things, before and during my PPL.

Im brand new to aviation and am doing it because Its something iv wanted to do for so long, with this in mind, my knowledge of what to do and when is very limited.

Im wondering if i need to do tests etc before actualy even approaching a flight school.


any help would be great.

Thanks guys :):)

[Rhino25782]

Hi djla,

You do not need to pass any test before approaching a flight school.

In fact, as you say you are completely new to aviation, I would recommend you to visit a flying club or a school quite early in the process, book a trial lesson and actually see and feel if this is what want! A trial lesson can be credited towards your training hours if you get the paperwork right - so it's not a waste of money!

At this point, I think I'd ask myself some general questions which should more or less dictate the course of action afterwards. What are you looking for in flying, where is it going to take you? Do you want to fly for a living or as a hobby? Do you want the license quickly, or would you enjoy the training so much that it can take 1 or 2 years to complete? Are you on a budget or do you have money to spend?

Then start making decisions: What kind of license you need (EASA PPL is a good starting point for private flying...), where you want to do the training (clubs or schools in UK, intensive course in the US, ...) etc. You will probably have more detailed questions in the process of making those decisions. Come back here with those questions. ;-)

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi djla86,

The first thing I would point out is that of all the people who actually get a PPL, fully 70% decide not renew their licences at the end of their first five years. (This does not include those who give up flying before they succeed in getting a licence).

There are numerous reasons why people give up, cost and the demands of family especially loom large, but so also does the massive over-regulation of private flying in the UK and the limited things you can do with your licence once you have got it - unless you have plenty of money. There's an old joke ruefully exchanged among private pilots that 'if God had intended man to fly - he would have given us more money'.

If your intention is to fly just for a hobby, then you should also look at gliding and micro-light flying. Micro-light flying is divided into two sub-categories, 'weight-shift' and 'three-axis'. 'Three-axis' micro-light aircraft especially are almost indistinguishable from 'Group A' and are in very many cases much better aircraft. These modes of flying are all much cheaper than 'Group A' flying and do not require a full PPL.

There is also the NPPL, which is a 'Britain only' licence that will give you limited rights to fly 'Group A' aircraft within the UK, although I do believe NPPL holders may now be allowed to fly over France. (Don't quote me on that; I'm not an NPPL holder so I am only going on hear-say).

Gliding has its own system of incremental certificates that can be gained step by step over a time and micro-light flying is regulated by the BMAA who have their own licence system. I believe the minimum requirement for a licence to fly 'three-axis' is only 30 hours, rather than the 45 minimum for a PPL or 40 for an NPPL.

Incidentally, don't fall into the trap of assuming the PPL is a '45 hour course'. The 45 hours is merely a legal minimum. In practice few people qualify within this number of hours, 60 or 70 hrs being more common. And if, for work or financial reasons, you can only fly perhaps once a fortnight then you are probably going to require well over a hundred hours just to get your flying to a standard adequate to pass the PPL skill test.

You also need to be confident that you can pass the six ground examinations by self-study as ground-school facilities are few and far between.

Finally, I would strongly support the point Rhino has made about knowing before you start what kind of flying you wish to do with your licence and knowing in advance whether you can afford it.

Good luck.

BP.

[mary meagher]

good morning djla!

Broomstick pilot is giving good advice: and I see you are a Brummie! why not check out the gliding clubs near you, no need to book up front, just turn up on a weekend and see if it would suit. It is an excellent grounding for rising into the air! and not all that expensive, either.

Suggest you google my club first! Shenington Gliding Club, but there are others, eg Husbands Bosworth, Snitterfield. Others exist in the area but suffer various drawbacks...pm me if you would like more information.

Mary

PS. VERY IMPORTANT! If you are determined to get a pilot's license, the first money you should spend is on an aviation medical. If there is any health reason that would get in the way you need to know that before you start splashing the cash.

[Exiled Martian]

Hi OP (& fellow Brummie)

Im wondering if someone can recommend a website or anywhere that i can find out what order things are done in/i need to do things, before and during my PPL.

I'm brand new to aviation and am doing it because Its something iv wanted to do for so long, with this in mind, my knowledge of what to do and when is very limited.I suggest you have a look at THIS WEBSITE . (http://www.profpilot.co.uk/courses/ppl.php)

I found it very resourceful when I was in your predicament a couple of years back. Just a heads up - the information on there might be a little dated , but the manner in which all things flying is explained is pretty much simplified (layman's definition breakdown). Everything you need to know about the PPL path (& beyond if you fancy it) is pretty much in black & white on that link....just follow/ click the relevant tabs from thereon!



To reiterate others, you do not need to complete any particular tests (apart from getting that medical sorted) prior to starting your training. In the mean time head out to a local airfield (Half penny Green/ Wellesbourne/ Coventry) that is in close proximity to yourself & get a trial flight sorted:ok:

[RTN11]

Some good advice here. I would second the advice to get a medical as early as possible, I'd say trial lesson first to make sure you actually enjoy flying, then medical as soon as possible so you don't waste loads of money on flying only to find some obscure medical result prevents you progressing.

My main piece of advice to people very new to aviation is NEVER PAY UPFRONT FOR A PPL COURSE. Some schools make this look very attractive, offering discounts for buying hours in bulk, but it could take you over a year to fly these hours, and if the school runs into financial trouble in that time, and you lose everything. It has happened to a lot of people in the past, so make sure it doesn't happen to you.

So NEVER PAY UP FRONT, and hope you enjoy the flying.

[md 600 driver]

rtn

So NEVER PAY UP FRONT, and hope you enjoy the flying

Why not! all companies are not bad, when i trained for my fixed wing and rotary i paid upfront for both without problems

some companies have arrangements to ring fence the money ,you could also pay by credit card as they have protection also

[airpolice]

Quote:
So NEVER PAY UP FRONT, and hope you enjoy the flying
Why not! all companies are not bad, when i trained for my fixed wing and rotary i paid upfront for both without problems

some companies have arrangements to ring fence the money ,you could also pay by credit card as they have protection also

Ding! Ding!

"Seconds out, round 567!"

[djla86]

Thank you all for passing on your advise. Very helpful. The issue I face is that although it's something that I really want to do, I find it had to justify spending the money JUST for a hobby. So I suppose in my head I have to have some future financial gain to come from it.

This again leads me up a path of No knowledge.

I have no interest to go down the commercial route (I can't finance it and am to old)

So the only thing that would interest me in the future is becoming an instructor/tutor.

However due to my limited knowledge I don't know how possible/realistic this is to aim for long term.....

How many hour due you meed to do instructor rating

What's the cost of instructor rating

Can you even get a job when you've done it


I love teaching people anything and I do have a passion for aviation so it was a perfect (although possibly unrealistic) goal


Thanks again every one

Djla

[Rhino25782]

Hi Djla,

There is two elements in your question that I'd like to answer separately.

1) Is it justifiable spending that much money on just a hobby?

I went through that decision last year and for me the answer was "Yes". So far, I'm happy that I did it and enjoy myself a lot "up there". I'll see what the future brings.

Many hobbies are expensive, but quite obviously, leisure flying is an exceptionally expensive hobby. I used to think skiing was expensive but I now pay for an hour of flying what I pay for a week ski pass in the Alps. At this point in my life I can pull it off. I go flying alone maybe once or twice a month to stay current. Beyond that, I fly trips with friends and cost-share whenever there is a chance to. I realize that there may be phases in my life where I cannot afford this but nobody can take the experiences/memories from me that I am accumulating now. For me, that's worth it!

This is a question you are going to have to answer for yourself. That brings us to the second element of your question:

2) Can you make money from it?

Don't count on it. Even if you ARE going down the commercial route, it doesn't currently seem to be an industry to get rich in.

If you're not going down the commercial route, don't expect to make any money from it - mostly, because you won't be allowed to with a private license. I'm not entirely sure about this (others may have more details), but most instructors hold a commercial license. While it may be possible to instruct strictly PPL students on a PPL license with an instructor rating, I think this is quite rare and flight schools would shy away from employing you. Things might be different in a club environment.

In any case, don't make this a precondition for your hobby! Either you're willing to spend the money (and if you're lucky and perseverant, you may get some back at some point), or you're not. ;-)

[RTN11]

Round 567:

True that you can be lucky, and pay up front, but I personally know at least 5 people who each lost over £5k when a flying school went bust after they paid up front. A lot of small flying schools are run very close to the red, and sometimes all it takes is one unexpected prop strike, cylinder head crack or nose leg collapse where they suddenly need to fund a new engine, and just don't have the money.

They then go bust, and the owner starts a new school months later with fresh books, and it's the students who pay for it.

Perhaps I should say never pay upfront more than you're prepared to lose. If you know it will be a 3-4 week course, a lower risk. If it's likely to take a year to do the licence, I would never risk more than I could afford to lose, even if they offered discounts.

Round 577?

Anyway enough of a thread drift about paying up front, you can make your own risks with your own money.

To answer your other questions, you need to do cpl groundschool and would need a minimum of 200 hours to do an instructor rating. You can do it with or without a cpl, but my advice would be to do the cpl.

The course costs about £7k, maybe more these days. It's more groundschool than flying.

It's very difficult to make money from instructing, especially early on, as there are Loads of instructors on the market just trying to build hours to go commercial. With some decent experience behind you maybe 3-4 years, you may be able to negotiate a decent set of terms and conditions with the right school, who see the benefit of having a longer term instructor on their books. Don't think you'd ever earn more than £15-18k a year though, certainly starting out you'll be scraping by on £12-15k a year, maybe even as low as £10k.

[Lost in Cloud]

1. Speak to a few flying schools, get a feel for them, the instructors etc. Choose one club and book a trial flight.

2. Save some money. To complete a PPL in the UK in the minimum number of hours will cost circa £10k. Note I say minimum, most people need more lessons than the minimum, at extra cost. A lot of people run out of money so best have it set aside, it is one less thing to worry about.

3. Look in to all the options of where and how you want to train. In the UK or abroad, intensive 4 / 5 week full time course or one or two lessons a week, the latter will probably take about 1 year to complete.

4. You will need to sit 7 theory exams, these are multiple choice. Start by reading up on the subjects. Again your flying school will recommend good books. I used Trevor Thom and 'The Confuser'. The more exams you can do before you get in an aircraft the better in my opinion. Certain exams must be completed before you can do certain flying tasks e.g. you must pass Air Law exam before you can fly solo and I had to pass Air Nav exam before I could so solo X-Country.

5. Choose a school and instructor. Check out aircraft and instructor availability. How well are the aircraft maintained? NEVER pay upfront for the whole course, people have lost a lot of money doing this. Though schools do offer discounts for blocks of flying, so you can pay for 10 hours and get a discount, this limits possible losses but is up to you to decide if it is for you or not.

6. You will need a class 2 medical, assuming you a reasonably fit and healthy this is nothing to worry about, but best to have it before you spend a fortune

7. Enjoy it! You will struggle to maintain airspeed at first and landing will be the impossible task that you think you will never be able to manage, but you will get there.

[djla86]

As the first time Iv ever been on a forum I'm soooo pleased I did and so great full for everyone taking the time to get back to me.

I think I'm going to take the test flight(but this is going to seal the deal for me lol) and then I'm not going to try an rush it so I can manage the cost more.. I think this is going to be best for me..

I'm solo excited and agin the advise has been brilliant


Djla

[Chase_BHX]

Hi,

Another student from Birmingham. I think the most important bit of advice is to be happy with the planes, school and instructor(s).

Next enjoy the flying lessons themselves rather than seeing them as part of a course that has to be done to get the PPL (after all they cost a lot per hour!)

Finally try and have regular lessons. Most people suggest aiming for at least one lesson a week. Early on if I had break of two weeks the next lesson was spent getting back to where I had been and three or four week gaps (mixture of work and weather) could mean two lessons to catch up.

I live in N Birmingham and there are also Tatenhill and East Midlands (where I had a trial lesson 10 years ago) as well as the airfields already mentioned. Amazingly because of the motorways from where I all the airfields around Birmingham are within about 10 mins driving time of each other and my choice (Wellesbourne) was based upon knowing one of the instructors.

Chris