Water ditching Caravan caught on a Go-Pro from inside

[YODI]

A video shot by a passenger on board a Caravan ditching, due engine failure.

The accident was last month and there was one fatality.


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[Pace]

Very sorry yet surprised that there was a fatality as the sea landing seemed well carried out without a major impact and the evacuation given the circumstances seemed well co ordinated with no injuries apparent other than shock to the other passengers.
Does anyone know why there was a fatality? Was it a heart attack caused by the situation or was one passenger trapped in the sinking aircraft? Or some other reason?

Pace

[JDA2012]

Pace - the conspiracy theorists are out in full force on that one, given the identity of the fatality...

New footage shows the harrowing moment a small plane crashed off Hawaii and killed the woman who published President Obama's birth certificate | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536931/New-footage-shows-harrowing-moment-small-plane-crashed-Hawaii-killed-woman-published-President-Obamas-birth-certificate.html)

Loretta Fuddy: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | HEAVY (http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/12/loretta-fuddy-obama-birth-certificate-dead-crash)

Loretta Fuddy: The Most Unlucky Person of 2013 ? or was she killed to cover a big lie? (http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/12/16/loretta-fuddy-the-most-unlucky-person-of-2013-or-was-she-killed-to-cover-a-big-lie/)

Loretta Fuddy | Hawai?i Health Connector (http://www.hawaiihealthconnector.com/loretta-fuddy)

She appears to have escaped the aircraft; there is discussion that it may have been a heart problem but actual information (as opposed to theorising) is rather thin on the ground.

[Pace]

i purely found it strange that someone perished looking at the video.
if the poor lady in question did get out of the aircraft its possible that she could not swim and was missed by the others at a critical point or suffered a heart attack and again was missed by the others?

but looking at the video even after the event there was a lot of care towards the others in the water and a certain organisation so very surprised but not impossible that she was missed.

I doubt the conspiracy to murder theory there would be better ways than purposely crashing an aircraft with risk to others

pace

[mad_jock]

Its quite common for people to just disappear in water like that.

It doesn't need to be anything major to cause it either.

If they pull a lung full of water they just sink.

They are using buoyancy aids not life jackets which are designed and rated to support an unconscious body in a head clear of water position.

While scuba diving I know of 3 people first hand who were there one minute and then were gone the next. 2 on the surface while snorkelling and one during an ascent. 2 of them were found and 1 has never been found.

It can be a wave that gets them or they go into shock and swallow a lung full. A lot of people try and swim on their fronts while wearing a life/buoyancy aid unless its designed for it like the dingy sailing types it defeats half of the safety benefit your better on your back with your arms crossed across the front kicking with your legs with your head back. If your on your front you are just wasting energy fighting against its centre of buoyancy trying to do its designed job.

The lady from the pictures on the net was rather large and old and if she is like any other large elderly ladys that I know will have numerous medical issues. I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to an angina attack or some such if she hasn't already become fish food and they find her.

More to the point any word on why they ditched?


Me getting into a Single engine IFR/night/over water commercial flight you can stick up your arse.

[Pace]

MJ

Yes looking at her she did not look that fit and the fear and shock could have caused her to pass out or have a heart problem. As you said in the evacuation it is quite possible she vanished in seconds under the water.

i agree in warm waters like that with numerous predators they will be unlikely to find a body which will further stoke the conspiracy theory.

Sharks are amazing creatures and fantastic to dive with but terrible scavengers with prey they do not regard as a threat.
i have dived with Oceanic white tips, Tiger, Hammerheads, reef sharks, blue, Angel Sharks and only ever felt threatened by the oceanic white tip :E and that one I did feel like a potential meal :{

Pace

[PURPLE PITOT]

Remarkably well executed evacuation considering the "alarm" went off just before they spiralled in! :ugh:

Got to love the media!

[mad_jock]

They didn't spiral in which is why it was so survivable.

The alarm I don't think was a master caution it was the stall warner.

And looking at the angle of the wing prior to splash down confirms this to me.

The pilot did a very good job of flying the crash and maximising the survival chances no doubt helped by the low stall speed of the aircraft keeping the wings level and controlling the crash so that the aircraft didn't start tumbling because of a wing digging in or one gear touching first yawing the aircraft.

And the only time I have felt like I was at the bottom of the food chain was up in scapa when an orca started pinging me and I was getting blasts of current with nothing seen in 1-2 meters viz doing a deco stop. Decided I would rather chance the chamber so missed 15mins of deco. Got called every name under the sun by the boat skipper for missing my stops until the fin passed the boat. Then stripped of dry suit I was made to lie on the deck with my legs raised in the sun with a full face O2 mask on and made to drink a half bottle of dark rum with a few cans of strongbow for rehydration during the o2 breaks. He didn't even charge me for the O2 or rum.

To this day I haven't seen this alternative method of bends prevention documented but as I didn't even get a niggle it does seem to work.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Sarcasm warning. It was the stall warner, and the evac had obviously been well briefed before the well executed wings level ditching.:ok:

Just loved the way the news reporter spun it!

[EARSA]

Me getting into a Single engine IFR/night/over water commercial flight you can stick up your arse.

I agree. Were all much safer in a 40 year old piston twin...

[mad_jock]

Maybe not in the piston, but you are in my 37 year old turboprop.

[EARSA]

As long as it doesn't live up to its name, and become the WETdream!

Economically, a clapped out old JS31/41 couldn't compete with the 'van. A BE20 would be the better bet. Plenty vans flying commercially though.

[mad_jock]

Only time you get wet is when the condensation drips off the DV window when it melts when you descend.

I don't think anyone as taken one for a swim yet. Going to have to do a search on that because someone must have. Most of the ones that have been crashed its purely down to pilot screw up.

I was more than happy flying it up to Vargar many times.

Yep but Vans keep on crashing. Last time I was in Dar I met someone who had spent the night floating about after one ditched. Then just as we were leaving one ditched again. And the King air is great until someone needs a toilet which the wife of one of the African presidents found out when she had to crap in a cooler box and get the defence minister to wipe her bum because she was a large girl and could reach herself.

[EARSA]

Plenty of King Airs with crappers on board, cassette type. In commuter configuration it might be an issue though.

[mad_jock]

What ever you go for, Twin TP's be it F406, JS31/32, BE20's are far safer than a spanking new Van with all the Gucci Garmin kit.

[Slopey]

Why did the camera man wait until after landing to get his lifejacket on - if that's what he pulls out of the seatback infront of him? Would have thought it would have been on and ready prior to the touchdown.

But as someone who has never been and hopes never to be in that situation, it looked like it was handled superbly, aside from the single fatality which may be due to mitigating factors.

[YODI]

Because we are in the 21st century surrounded by technology, facebook and twitters.

[SawMan]

If I recall correctly (which isn't as often as it once was) in one of the news repirts another woman on the plane said that the deceased and her "were holding hands and doing OK one minute and the next she was gone" or some words very close to that. All did have some kind of flotation devices which made me wonder how someone could "be gone" when moments before they were said to be so close to each other. Perhaps the "gone" referred to her being dead instead of being 'present on the scene'- that wasn't made clear in the news article or anywhere else I saw, which is why I still recall this now but can remember little else about it.

[mad_jock]

Its a reoccurring statement in diving fatalities.

Once your lungs fill you sink like brick and there is nothing there to shout with. She could have hyperventalated and passed out that way as well.

So i can believe she was holding someones hand and then they turned for a few seconds releasing it then she was gone

[India Four Two]

Why did the camera man wait until after landing to get his lifejacket on

More importantly, why was no-one in the brace position AND wearing a lifejacket?

[edsbar]

How do you brace with a shoulder harness...??

[India Four Two]

edsbar,

Well if I was a pax with a shoulder-harness, I would at least have my forearm on the seat in front.

[AirborneAgain]

How do you brace with a shoulder harness...??
Cross your arms over your face...?

I, too, was surprised by the apparent lack of preparation in the cabin. For an overwater flight in a single-engine aircraft, everyone should have donned life vests before takeoff!

The ditching itself was well executed, though.

[mad_jock]

Putting your arm on the seat back in front isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference. They arn't designed to take any load in that direction in fact most will just rotate forward.

And its not the done thing in any of the operations I have seen (but always refuse to get on) to put life jackets on before departure over water. It would cost a fortune. And within a week only 50% of them would still be working anyway.

[India Four Two]

mj,

I appreciate your point, but I would rather have my forehead hit a known quantity like my forearm, rather than whatever nasty bits of sharp hardware might be hiding in the seatback.

I am also surprised that given that this was a controlled ditching, that lifejackets were not donned prior to touchdown.

[mad_jock]

The whole trick is to stop your head moving in relation to anything. If it hits anything your dead or your neck will be broken.

Which is the reason why you meant to curl up and put your arms over the top of your head. Up right with your arms in front of you will just give your head 50cm to gain a relative difference in velocity between head and object your going to strike. Plus also your neck will flex and give whip lash damage.

So pull your seat belt tight and kiss your knees and pull your head down and keep your elbows tight in.

[AirborneAgain]

And its not the done thing in any of the operations I have seen (but always refuse to get on) to put life jackets on before departure over water.Well, I'm just a PPL so I wouldn't know how this is commonly done in commercial operations. (I haven't even been passenger on a commercial single-engine overwater flight.).

I can only say I am very surprised that you say it is not done as the greatest danger when ditching is not surviving the ditching itself, but surviving in the water until SAR reaches you.

[mad_jock]

if they are willing to put you in a single engine over water their focus isn't really on safety of the pax.

It will never happen in Europe under current rules. And everytime it happens else were in the world it reduces the chance of it ever happening in Europe what ever the pro lobby would like.

[Pace]

MJ

At least you get out into bath warm water there rather than freezing to death here ;)

Pace

[mad_jock]

O well looks like politics over safety then.

Aye but pace they have things that eat you over there if they are bored.

You wouldn't catch me in one.

[Pace]

Mj

If you are in warm shark infested water the first thing to do is stay still! Do not sit on the top flailing arms and legs around like some dying sea creature!
Sharks will see you as easy prey!
Hopefully you will have your warm warer survival kit which will include some surface goggles and a knife,
The goggle s so you can survey the deep for anything coming to take an interest in you as some sort of haut cuisine dinner!
Underwater there are three categories Predator, Prey or neither ! The thing you have to avoid emulating is prey so eith emulate the neither category or if the predator still sees you as prey become threatening and a predator too!
The knife is a vital bit of kit especially if you have a nice tartan bib and a fork too :E This will give the. Message that you are far from prey and maybe even a predator with your saliverly glands eyeing the Shark as a nice fish and chips meal!
I have met quite a few underwater and trying to film them the problem is usually not scaring the things off I usually end up chasing the things around the sea bed looking like some weird creature waving an equally weird contraption at them ;)

So if your flying a single warm seas remember the goggles and a nice bit of cold steel as they don't like it up em ! Unless it's a great white! Killer whale Oceanic white tip ( killed more people from sinking ships in the last war than any other species ) and a couple of others in which case pray ;)

Pace

[dn88]

A few years back I flew Kahului-Kalaupapa (the accident airport) and Kalaupapa-Honolulu on a Cessna Caravan with another operator out there.

We were put in to a hold on the way in to Honolulu, and sat there circling several miles out to sea at around 2000ft VFR for 15 minutes or so. Whilst staring down at the sea it did cross my mind what would happen if the engine quit, because none of us were prepared with life vests or any instructions on what to do in the case of ditching.

After the flight I chatted to the pilot about commercial SE ops over water, his reaction was that it was so unlikely that it shouldn't even cross your mind.

[mad_jock]

Sod stabbing it, that will just annoy it.

Suppose you could just stab the FO and then swim for it.