Ansett B727 Crewing Question

[Stationair8]

When Ansett operated the B727, did they have seperate crew for the night freight operations on RMX?

[UTW]

Hi Stationair. The same crews operated pax and freight operations on VH-RMX.

[john_tullamarine]

Readymix was up for grabs for whomever either wanted it or had too much juniority to avoid it.

However, there was a caveat elsewhere. Although the memory is fading, and I would have trouble laying my hands on my logs to check, there was a period where AN and TN shared the -100 freighter flying and we flew blocks on the freighter. I vaguely recall this was for 2-3 months at a time ? Wonderful time was had by all ..

Some of us, especially ex-Wombats, bid routinely for the freighter flying and its associated relaxed schedules. The hosties, however, left a tad to be desired ...

[Capt Fathom]

The hosties, however, left a tad to be desired ...

Poor old FE's cop it again. You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you! :E

[john_tullamarine]

Give a bloke a go .. I was extremely pro-FEs as a crew complement.

At least they'd have a beer on overnights.

Was it Ronny Hare (one of Nature's finest gingerbeers - RIP) who did the hand-out-the-toiletries-exercise at the foot of the stairs long ago .. and upset a group of the ladies ? He was a character was our Ron ...

[rafterman]

Hey enough about the "hosties" will you, I used to be a loadmaster on RMX back in the Wrightson's Bloodstock days when we carried nags between Aus and NZ. I still remember wandering (crawling more like it) down the back one flight back from Akl when we had a few cows on board and discovering some old fella who had actually taken one of the dairy cows out of the horse box and had it standing merrily on the open pallet unrestrained at 35,000 feet. When I asked him incredulously what he was doing, he simply replied "milking" in a tone that implied I must have been an idiot to not know that.... Ahhh happy days

[Wizofoz]

I flew with Ron on the 767- Great bloke!!

[john_tullamarine]

.. maybe we should have a Wombat reunion before we all shuffle off ?

[outback aviator]

Ah, C2-RN7 flew like Boeing meant 727 to fly!

[By George]

During my time on RMX we donated a few dollars a month to support the Wombats in the Melbourne Zoo. I remember seeing the plaque on their enclosure when I took my young daughter for a visit. It said something along the lines, "Supported by the Pilots of Ansett Air Freight". They must be very thin by now.

[john_tullamarine]

.. and, no doubt, you still have your Wombat Squadron badges and so forth ?

[By George]

Last Wombat sticker went out with the old Ansett Nav bag which fell to bits in Singapore days.
The only time I ever met Sir Peter Abeles,I was on a Freighter pairing and he told me how much he was amused by the origins of the 'Wombat' painted on the aircraft. Difficult to find any of this humour with the current operators.

[B772]

C2-RN7 was originally the Ansett VH-RMS. Ansett sold the a/c after just over 10 years of use. A few months before Ansett sold the a/c it was seen painted with the name ANSETT replaced with ANNSETT in large letters. The a/c operated in Australia for a further 24 years with a number of owners/operators.

[3 Holer]

Whilst we are on the subject of F/E's of the likes of the "Hare", Rod "Sparrow" Swallow was another great character F/E. Alan Clarke, Johnny "JJ" Jansen......... the list just goes on and on.:ok:

[Sunfish]

Is it true that a pistol was carried on livestock flights in case a horse decided it didn’t like the cabin service?

[krismiler]

I believe that’s a requirement when carrying livestock of that size in case it goes berserk inflight.

[Checklist Charlie]

I understand a firearm is too dangerous (and unpredictable) in an aircraft (says allot about the wisdom of armed 'skymarshalls")

In my experience on horse charters there has always been a Vet carried with a "Humane Killer", a captive bolt gun, a spring actuated non explosive device.

CC

[mustafagander]

In my days on B707 horse charters we carried a "pole syringe" to put down out of control horses. This device was a large syringe mounted on the end of a couple of metres broomstick.

[Mark WB]

didn't they have a tranquilliser on a large stick

[Fris B. Fairing]

C2-RN7 was originally the Ansett VH-RMS. Ansett sold the a/c after just over 10 years of use. A few months before Ansett sold the a/c it was seen painted with the name ANSETT replaced with ANNSETT in large letters. The a/c operated in Australia for a further 24 years with a number of owners/operators.
The aeroplane survives at the Aviation Australia training institution at Brisbane Airport. I believe that would make it the only 727 in Australia.

[john_tullamarine]

Is it true that a pistol was carried on livestock flights in case a horse decided it didn’t like the cabin service?

Absolutely the case during my time on the operations. S&W in a locked, combination box. I suspect I was the only pilot who ever bothered to do the usual safety check on the thing at the start of a sequence. One wit opined that the reason for the large number of rounds carried in the box was so that the first umpteen could be used to drill a hole in the unfortunate horse's head and the final round to dispatch it to the big clover field in the sky.

The best tale, however, was from IPEC. The then CP was being quizzed by the relevant DCA chap for his periodic tick in the box. When asked whether he saw a need to carry a weapon when freighting tons of oysters and such like delights, his response was along the lines of "Oh, I don't think that would be entirely necessary. I suspect that a plate, cutlery, and Worcestershire sauce would be more than adequate for the hazards and risks involved …."

[Sunfish]

Thank you JT! I seem to remember being told about it one day in the hangar. I well remember Wombat Squadron and their badge on the nose. I also remember the LAMES christening them “the golden goose” for the periodic structural checks on the wing planks. I was lectured on the sophistication of the Electra’s systems as well. I was told they were far ahead of their time when originally designed.

[Dora-9]

In Cathay we carried a lot of horses and the captain was issued with a Humane Killer, a gun thingie that fired a bolt six inches into the horse's skull. How you were supposed to position it on the currently panicking horses head, between his eyes, was beyond me. But this didn't fall to us, as we carried one or more horse handlers whenever there were horses (the handlers were a VERY interesting group of people; FE's were very tame in comparison) and only they were allowed to leave the upper deck in flight. That suited me fine.

But being a firearm you had to sign for the weapon; often in typical mangled Chinglish it was described as a "Human Killer"!

[Valdiviano]

As I remember,
As a freshly minted (1982) FO on the Ansett Wombat L188, we carried a 45 in a sealed case with about 10 bullets whenever livestock was carried.
It was the FO duty to sign and get it from Freight Office. We had minimal training on loading and operating of such big black ****er, we never trained to fire it. We where told to shoot UP, never DOWN, controls and hydraulics under floor.
Just before departure to TAS late one night, got a call, FO to office to P U gun. Quick look at freight manifest, only a smalll cage of birds. WTF?
Run to the shed, tried to argue, with a smirk on their face the office staff said, son, rules are rules, if those birds go bersek, just shoot them.
What a great time we had in the Wombat Squadron
A great bunch of crew

[mustafagander]

Mark WB, in my mob it was some sort of lethal injection, definitely not a tranquiliser. We were cautioned about the risks of mishandling the contraption. This was, by the way, back in the 1970s.

[40years]

As a callow ground controller at Melbourne, I was occasionally greeted by a wombat departing the runway with the words "Melbourne Ground this is Wombat (1,2,or3) snuffling and grunting to the Wombat Shed."

[blackburn]

Back in 1982 I was tasked with an Ansett Freight Charter from Tulla to Adelaide where we were to pick up a Tiger and bring him back to Melbourne in a Setair DC3.
Before we left Tulla I was handed the said wooden box containing the pistol to which I enquired "what I am to do with this?" I was then told about the tiger to be transported back to Melbourne before being shipped on to the Amsterdam Zoo. Well when we got to Adelaide I found the poor old tiger was in a steel barred cage which in turn was inside a wooden cage, something like an early version of an overpack.
Tiger was in no condition to even stand as like all drugged cats, his eyes were only half open and his head was lolling about. So any thoughts of using the pistol, should he even get out, were firmly put away.
The biggest issue was getting the cage on board as the aircraft I had that night was the only one (was MWQ then and now is back to its original rego of MMA) in our fleet of three that had the galley at the rear and that required some substantial juggling to get the cage past the galley with both cargo doors open. I had never ever fired a gun let alone handled one apart from the 303's used for drill when we were cadets at High School so it all seemed a bit of a laugh at the time.

[emeritus]

While we are on the subject of carrying a firearm on the Electra, there was a case of having to shoot a horse on a charter NZ to MEL. Late seventies I think. Horse went berserk in flight after playing up pre flight.

Amazed CASA, or whoever they called themselves then, allowed untrained crew to discharge a firearm in flight.

Would have loved to sit in on the Enquiry to hear the comments. Upshot was that thereafter we carried a vet with a big needle.

[Checklist Charlie]

Back in the dim dark ages of my early flight training there was a Civil Aviation Order that stated " For the carriage of swine, the crate must be constructed in a manner so as to prevent escape by rooting"

Knowing the speed and efficiency of the Regulatory Reform Program, that Order is probably still valid and current.

CC