Another Premier 1 down Dec 17 2013

[robbreid]

2 dead in plane crash in NW Atlanta | www.wsbtv.com (http://m.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/plane-crashes-nw-atlanta/ncNTf/)

N50PM Premier 1 departing Fulton County Airport, Georgia crashed for unknown reasons - 2 crew on board fatal.

N50PM ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N50PM)

Photo Graham Evans/Flickr Click Here (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8364/8296660507_900085565b_b.jpg)

[galaxy flyer]

Premier's accident rate rivals the F-16's.

GF

[robbreid]

I listened to the atc tape, on departure the crew reported to ATC they had 'a problem' and were returning. ATC offered emergency equipment which the crew declined. Aircraft was about two miles out on approach to runway 26 making a final right turn when it went down.

A witness who video taped the fire stated the aircraft looked like it was coming right into her house but turned at the last moment impacting the ground in a fireball.

[robbreid]

Oh no!!!, read this accident report from the owner/pilot of N50PM when he wrote off his King Air B200 when it ran out of fuel at flight level 33!!!

Untitled Page (http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001211X11244&ntsbno=DEN99LA014&akey=1)

[ksjc]

I read the KA accident report. No fuel uplifted usually means no fuel bill to pay. That would be my first clue.

[Tray Surfer]

Irrespective of everything else, sad to have 2 people pass away.

RIP.

[galaxy flyer]

Well, the fireball indicates fuel quantity wasn't the problem.

GF

[flarepilot]

if you are rich enough to have a jet

you are rich enough to hire professional PILOTS to fly you around

[one dot right]

if you are rich enough to have a jet

you are rich enough to hire professional PILOTS to fly you around

If only that were true.

This industry is littered with idiots who thought they were rich enough to afford a private jet. I even got sent on a type rating once only to find on my return that the aforementioned IDIOT couldn't afford to buy the jet after all.:ugh:

The idiot still owes me £thousands in unpaid wages too!

[Yeager]

Didn't that Berlin, Germania, based company Windrose Air ( WINDROSE AIR Jetcharter GmbH. The company - benefits - exclusive business or private flights (http://www.windroseair.de/) ) crash a Premier 1 down in Samedan, Switzerland a couple of years ago?

[what next]

Didn't that Berlin, Germania, based company ... crash a Premier 1 down in Samedan, Switzerland a couple of years ago?

I'm totally unrelated to that operation, yet I would like to point out that it was not crashed by the company. The report concludes

"The following causal factors have been identified for the accident:
- The crew continued the approach under weather conditions that no longer permitted safe control of the aircraft.
- The crew performed a risky manoeuvre close to ground instead of a consistent missed approach procedure. "

I very much doubt that the company you named instructs it's pilots to fly in the described manner.

Flugunfall 19 DEC 2010 einer Hawker Beechcraft 390 Premier IA D-IAYL - St. Moritz-Samedan Airport (SMV) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20101219-0&lang=de)

[NewTimer]

And if they were the main causes of the accident, it doesn't matter much what aircraft they were flying. Hard to blame that one on the RA390.

[flarepilot]

meldex


self important...thanks. I guess I've been around the pattern ( or circuit in your parlance ) too many times and some things just smell a certain way.

self important...yes, I am.

and you, what are you?

[flarepilot]

meldex, you just judged me.


not cricket of you old boy.

how many planes have you seen, in person, crash? or the smoke come up from a crash? or helped pull someone out of a plane that has banged up so badly as couldn't move anymore?

hmmmm


I"ve seen three crash and you?

[I.R.PIRATE]

OMG. Flarepilot.

I think I have just had a fibro-mialgiasm thanks to your awesomeness.
:ooh:

[flarepilot]

I've finally figured out pprune.

the people on it, for the most part, really don't have too much experience in aviation.

there are exceptions of course.

[galaxy flyer]

Care to share with us peons of aviation your vast experience that allows you to judge in the near complete absence of facts? Nothing notable in your profile, flarepilot, other than you are from Chicago.

GF

[flarepilot]

dear gf


if i put down the truth, you would write that it wasn't true

so, why bother?

but when you have seen enough, you come to your own conclusions...and in a year when the NTSB comes out with a report, you can write to me then.

and you probably don't believe I have seen three planes crash...oh well...

[rotorspeed]

Flarepilot

Think I've got it - you're an airport fireman, right?

[galaxy flyer]

I fail to see where watching planes crash provides any special ability to discern causes without factual evidence. WRT this accident almost no factual information has been presented, but you claim to know the cause. Just post some facts so we might judge your creditentials to reach such rapid conclusions.

GF

[Brian Abraham]

I've finally figured out pprune.

the people on it, for the most part, really don't have too much experience in aviationWe are well aware of who has experience, such as GF, and more than well aware of the posers and pretenders, such as yourself.

A PM from flarepilotso brian

you don't think I'm a pilot...fine

I just made a post that should prove to any real pilot that I am a pilot

now, YOU DO THE SAME

CROW TIME He seems to think that knowing what a "beaver tail" and a few details about the "NY TMA" proves that he is the fair dinkum article (pilot of vast experience).Unfortunately his version of an ATPL exam has been deleted.

flarepilot originated as ssg who popped up claiming to have extensive jet and helicopter time. Yet he has shown by his posts that he has never sat at, and operated, the controls of any aircraft, be it fixed wing or helicopter.

He has gone through an extensive number of identities, such as,

tankdriver45
Angels 60
Trickle451
Onepercenter
Cattleflyer
Iflymach85
Longflights
johns7022
SinglePilotCaptain
Whenrealityhurts
Dimlightbulbs
sevenstrokeroll
Anotheravatar
Dariuszw
RainingLogic
TheRobe
SillyPeoples
Teldorserious

and the latest being flarepilot

A few comments by others to posts he has made.

1. Awww, you spoiled it. Already had the popcorn out, SSG is always soo much entertainment value. Nothing like a 16 year old that believes fervently in some whacko theories.

2. please state who you work for so we can all steer away...
(this guy can't be for real)

3. Your ignorance regarding the underlying principles of safe aircraft operation are on public display with your last post.

4. Well Angels, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now I know you're full of it.

5. You're flying a helicopter, now? You were a fixed wing captain with 10,000 hours and seven type ratings, flying a citation, and had just been rejected by Alaska airlines when you posted as ssg and then as Trickle451...both of your former identities which have recently been banned.

6. Now you're a helicopter pilot. Who'd have guessed?

7. Do I see SSG v4.0 ?
Interesting v4.0 joined as soon as v3.0 was banned.
And always links the current version with the previous ones.

8. Yes, it makes it interesting albeit frustrating and painful...
but after seeing the same patterns again and again, sorry, SSG, it's getting boring.

9. I guess this one has tooo much time on his/her hands... corporate or not, pilot or not.

10. I think someone should make a "Bad Flying Advise" series and shove what Ssg and his "successors" preaches there... well, it'll be bad advise for those who carry cattle class (aka cattle flyers aka SLFs) at the back.

11. I don't actually believe he's for real. Surely, no-one's that stupid.

12. Seldom have I heard anyone display the depths of their ignorance with such total conviction. The only downside is that there are others who might believe what he says through their own inexperience. The reasoning behind some of his statements would have made the Monty Python crowd very proud of him. He certainly sounds like he believes them himself and thats scary!

13. I wouldn't worry too much about what flarepilot has to say... he/she is not a pilot!

The comment "The only downside is that there are others who might believe what he says through their own inexperience" is one of the more troubling elements of his posts.

[BEACH KING]

Brian..That is most amusing.

[robbreid]

And ... back to this accident . .

NTSB Identification: ERA14FA073
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, December 17, 2013 in Atlanta, GA
Aircraft: RAYTHEON AIRCRAFT COMPANY 390, registration: N50PM
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
On December 17, 2013, about 1924 eastern standard time (EST), a Raytheon Aircraft Company 390 Premier 1, N50PM, was destroyed when it impacted trees, terrain, and was consumed by a postcrash fire, while returning to land on runway 26 at Fulton County Airport – Brown Field (FTY), Atlanta, Georgia. The airplane had departed a few minutes prior. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan had been filed for the flight to New Orleans Lake Front Airport (NEW), New Orleans, Louisiana. The private pilot and passenger were fatally injured. The personal flight was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.


According to voice recordings obtained from the air traffic control tower (ATCT), the accident flight was given a departure heading of 290 degrees and was cleared for takeoff. Immediately after takeoff the pilot requested to return to the airport; however, he did not request any assistance after being queried by an ATCT controller. The pilot was given instructions to enter the right downwind for runway 26 and was told to follow landing traffic; no further transmissions were recorded from the flight.


According to an eyewitness that lived next to the accident location, the airplane struck a tree and veered to the right and subsequently impacted the ground.

According to written statements provided by line personnel at the fixed base operator (FBO) where the airplane had been fueled, they had towed, or repositioned, the airplane to their ramp from a nearby service center and parked it on their ramp area about 1720. The accident pilot contacted the FBO about 1740 and requested 125 gallons of Jet-A fuel with prist, to be loaded into each wing. The pilot and passenger arrived at the airplane about 1900, loaded their baggage inside the airplane cabin, and departed the ramp area about 15 minutes later.


The wreckage debris field was about 260 feet in length, on a course of 095 degrees, and was located about 3 miles to the northeast of the intended landing runway. The airplane impacted a tree about 80 feet above ground level and the left wingtip and navigation light were located at the base of the initial tree impact location. Another tree strike was located about 100 feet from the initial impact location and the right wing navigation light was located in the immediate vicinity. Subsequently, the airplane impacted the ground in a nose down inverted attitude and then came to rest approximately 50 feet away on a heading of 289 degrees. Ground scaring and burn patterns are consistent with a postcrash explosion and fire.

The cockpit voice recorder, enhanced ground proximity warning system, and two primary flight displays, were sent to the NTSB Recorders Laboratory for download.

[Sir George Cayley]

Crashing on 17th December brings poignancy to an already bad incident.

SGC

I did once rush into a burning building, rescued the old lady who had let her chip pan explode, re-entered with wet towels to douse the flames and shut off the gas and electricity as I crawled out the front door. I got a right royal bollicking from the Chief Fire Office for going back in - I think he wanted his crew to do that. Does this count?

[talkpedlar]

..but having run the KingAir's tanks dry (after it was refuelled in the owner's absence), one might have thought that he would thereafter be present and carefully witnessing future refuelling..but no sir... the NTSB say he arrived at the ramp long after the refuellling of the Premier.

Also, one wonders what sort of defect/distraction could contribute to, or cause, this accident. Just how much skill does it take to land an entry-level jet in VMC conditions?

Another tragic entry-level fatal. RIP gentlemen.

[CharlesLindbergh]

..but having run the KingAir's tanks dry (after it was refuelled in the owner's absence), one might have thought that he would thereafter be present and carefully witnessing future refuelling..but no sir... the NTSB say he arrived at the ramp long after the refuellling of the Premier.

Also, one wonders what sort of defect/distraction could contribute to, or cause, this accident. Just how much skill does it take to land an entry-level jet in VMC conditions?

Another tragic entry-level fatal. RIP gentlemen.

Wonder no-longer. The pilot was on a variety of drugs, and a capsule containing blue powder was found containing more of the same. Amphetamine, methlone, THC, various boner drugs, a sleeping pill. Those are what I recall of the top of my head. (I read the file earlier today and came across this thread when - on a whim - I decided to search for any additional info I could find. The toxicology report is in the NTSB accident docket.

[CloudHound]

Link to the synopsis
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20131217X20444&key=1

Link to the Docket Management System
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=55872&StartRow=16&EndRow=27&CurrentPage=2&order=1&sort=0&TXTSEARCHT=

In effect I believe the female passenger was unlawfully killed.