AVGAS contact

[Odai]

Hello,


After I gained my PPL this year (on the PA28), I recently moved on to the Cessna 172 for my CPL hour building.


One of the more significant differences is on the external checks where it is necessary to check the fuel (100LL I think) at 13 different drains (5 on each wing, 3 under the engine). No matter how careful I am, I do always end up getting a little bit of the fuel on my bare hands, as some of the drains spray a little when first opened.


I'm just wondering if there are any significant hazards associated with this? The fuel evaporates pretty quickly from the skin, within a few seconds. But as I understand it, a certain amount can be absorbed through the skin and the substance contains significant amounts of lead.


I always wash my hands thoroughly with soap after finishing the checks, but that's normally about 10 minutes after getting the fuel on my hands. Should I be more concerned?

[Fostex]

If you are refueling aircraft multiple times on a day-in day-ou basis I would take precautions, in fact your employer would probably require it. However for fuel checks washing your hands should be enough, failing that wear some nitrile surgical gloves which will be available online or at a pharmacist. Free disposable gloves are also usually available on the forecourt of petrol stations for this very reason, steal a bunch of them next time you fill up your car! :ok:

[Capot]

Now I'm feeling very small and incompetent. I've got a couple of hundred hours on C172, admittedly some time ago, and I could not even guess at where those 13 fuel drains can be found!


I suppose they stick out, but I don't remember them, at least not all of them.

[Ulster]

I could not even guess at where those 13 fuel drains can be found!

You made that observation just before I was about to ! I had a share in a C172 for many years, and I seem to remember pre-flight testing just one drain under each wing, and one more under the (port side ? ? ) of the engine compartment !

Dermatologically any kind of liquid hydrocarbon is potentially a severe skin irritant and best avoided or minimised. Like any other parameter in humans there is a wide range of sensitivity throughout the population. Personally, though, I don't remember spillage being a major problem.

[gingernut]

I'm not an expert but I'm guessing the health risks are likely to be related to frequency of exposure, method of intake, and total time exposed, rather than the amount of irritant, or having 13 fuel drains. (What sore of Cessna is it again??). Route of ingestion plays a part as well, siphoning a tank from your rich neighbor, and getting a lungful if a lot worse than spilling a bit from your fuel drainer.

In the big scale of things, I reckon the guy who fills the planes up every day, is more at risk of "the nasties" associated with hydrocarbons, than the pilot. I can't list them off the top of my head but tracheal and scrotal cancer come to mind from memory.

I guess common sense comes into the equation somewhere.

[Pace]

Gingernut

Far worse is the fuel additive we have to add to Jets which do not have heated fuel! The product called Prist is supposed to be highly carcinogenic and the fuelers will not go near the stuff forcing us the pilots to add the additive.

as with anything using surgical gloves and protecting the eyes is vitally important.

[mad_jock]

scrotal cancer come to mind from memory

Apart from excessive nut scratchers how does that work?

I can remember as a young lad working in oil yards in Aberdeen, pretty much everything was washed or cleaned in diesel.

And as a FI clean trousers stank of avgas after the first day wearing them. And god only knows how much was impregnated in my shoes.

[bcgallacher]

100LL is exactly what it says -low lead.The old green stuff 100/130 had 5cc of tetrethyl lead per gallon in it - it could be ingested through the skin and was cumulative so regularly getting it on the hands was not a good idea.Even worse was the purple 115/145 which was used on the last of the big piston engines. Saying that, I cannot remember any incident of fuel poisoning in the days when I worked with recips.

[Odai]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The Cessna I fly is a 172S model - apparently the older versions don't have the drains peppered all over the airplane. :P

I was actually much more concerned about lead exposure than any harmful effects of contact with the hydrocarbon compounds.

I did consider using disposable kitchen gloves but was worried that the chemicals in the fuel could react in some way with the material and cause some retention of the lead even after the gloves had dried.

With regards to the 'low-lead' designator in 100LL, as far as I can remember this is really just a relative term - I think it still has far more lead than, for example, the old 4 star leaded auto fuels.


EDIT: From Wikipedia:


TEL remains an ingredient of 100 octane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating) avgas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas) for piston-engine aircraft. The current formulation of 100LL (low lead, blue) aviation gasoline contains 2.12 grams of TEL per gallon, half the amount of the previous 100/130 (green) octane avgas (at 4.24 grams per gallon),[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaded_petrol#cite_note-21) but far more than the 0.1 gram per gallon permitted in automotive leaded gasoline or the 0.001 grams per gallon in automotive unleaded gasoline sold in the United States.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaded_petrol#cite_note-22) The United States Environmental Protection Agency, FAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAA), and others are working on economically feasible replacements for leaded avgas.

[Fostex]

As I suggested previously, buy a box of nitrile surgical gloves. They are specifically designed to be non-reactive and will not be damaged by petro-chemicals like AVGAS.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medium-Nitrile-Gloves-Powder-AQL1-5/dp/B001TA5RNA

[Flying Binghi]

via Odai:
I was actually much more concerned about lead exposure than any harmful effects of contact with the hydrocarbon compounds.

Hmmm... Looks like a beat-up to me..:hmm:

Anyway...

Lead is every where in the environment. The amount found naturally varies a great deal from place to place.

Odai, last time you went to the sea side you woulda got a far bigger dose of lead in one visit then your little spill event. Lead is found naturally in minute quantities in sea spray. Every bit of sea spray that blows towards the land deposits this minute quantity that steadily accumulates along beaches and sea front buildings.

Odai, if your worried about lead dont go near the beach..:ok:


"...Lead is a soft metal that is found in air in the form of very small particles. Lead can get into the air through soil erosion, volcanic eruptions, sea spray and bushfires..."


Lead (Pb) - Air quality fact sheet (http://www.environment.gov.au/node/13402)












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[dubbleyew eight]

there is actually a Materials Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for avgas.
try reading it.

[Flying Binghi]

there is actually a Materials Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for avgas.


Is there an MSDS for living near a beach ? Try researching it..:hmm:

[dubbleyew eight]

a simple google for "avgas msds" brings up 6,000 entries supposedly. the first one is the BP offering.

the original poster is stupidly exaggerating the risk as is typical of newbies these days. read the msds and you'll find out how avgas can kill you.
a bit on your hands wont do it.

[Flying Binghi]

the original poster is stupidly exaggerating the risk as is typical of newbies these days.

dubbleyew eight, i read the poster join date of 2009 and it looked like beat-up to me. If genuine its likely as you say its a bit of an over reaction.

If one is unaware of just how much lead there is naturally in the environment then the large volume of literature on lead in fuel can likely alarm some. Much of the literature on lead levels concern when cars ran on leaded fuels and the levels were a health concern.

Unfortunately, because there's no alarmist value or research dollars in sea-side lead levels then the information that can give a context to todays minuscule fuel lead exposure is just not there.

The days of lead in car fuel are gone so the minute amounts put out by aviation are no more harmful then a visit to the beach.









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[ZH875]

For the lazy ones
msds-avgas100ll.pdf (http://s01.static-shell.com/content/dam/shell-new/local/country/aus/downloads/fuels/msds/msds-avgas100ll.pdf)

[White Knight]

Gosh. How times have changed:D How much people worry:D

I used to fill my Zippo with Avgas, from the underwing drains on various piston types. Bl00dy stuff used to flow down my arm but a rinse off seemed to work ok:cool: I'm still alive...

Rubber gloves????