EK: what happened to RTA?

[flaphandlemover]

Chaps,
has anybody had any RTA msg lately inbound to DXB.
seems to me it has silently disappeared again....

any ideas?

[CAT3A]

I was wondering also-nothing the last month

[Fromagio]

I was wondering the same thing, I haven't seen it for a couple of months. I got the impression that people were only following the request if it asked one to speed up and ignored it if asked one to slow down, in which case, it was never going to work.

[Desdihold]

Alternate call sign.....
Has anyone ever used it?
I spoke with a Dxb controller recently who said that Is an EK policy which is not being used by ATC.

[flying willy]

Just had an RTA inbound DXB. Guess it’s still in use.

[INLAK]

Got one tonight.

[Plazbot]

Just 10 minutes ago had an Emirates at DESDI asking where the preceding traffic was because their RTA was 4 minutes earlier than their actual sequenced time. It seems that EK internally have not communicated that RTA has nothing to do with air traffic realities.

[Gulf News]

It seems that EK internally have not communicated that RTA has nothing to do with air traffic realities.

Plaz. It has been quite well communicated internally for a change however I think that comprehension amongst EK pilots is a bit of a challenge.

[jack schidt]

Around 3 weeks ago, the RTA system crashed. My flight received 30RTA messages continually for various aircraft arrivals. It was not just my aircraft that was receiving these messages but the whole fleet and shortly thereafter the system was shut down.

There endeth RTA, perhaps until it's rebirth.

[Emma Royds]

The situation that jack schidt described was apparently due to an IT glitch (update of some sort). The system was swiftly turned off!!! :)

[helen-damnation]

Not having attended a wash-up for some time, has there been any feedback from the suits?

Seems pretty dubious as it's only for EK. While I can see there may be some benefit in the middle of the rush hour(s), it still spits out a time in the quieter moments when you get a huge shortcut, free speed, etc. Complete waste of time and money in that case!

[wayupthere]

A few weeks back they managed to send all the RTA messages to all the aircraft, had one last night night also

[Jefferson Airplane]

I believe that RTAs have gone south because of the overwhelming success of the multiple Waves: Wave@2, Wave@7, Wave@14.

[myekppa]

Why would anyone not follow an RTA? Whether it works or not is quite frankly immaterial, it's a commercial request and unless you can't meet it for an operational reasons just do it.

The inference that 'people' ignore an RTA if it requires a slow down should actually be interpreted as 'a selfish Captain placing the other pilot(s) in a difficult position for no good reason.' I can't see an FO choosing to ignore an RTA if the Captains wants to follow it. With the roles reversed, how comfortable does the FO feel?

There has been a recent flurry of ridiculous and poor RT from our fellow company members that causes those in the flight deck to wince. If ATC are reading this, your frustrations are ours as well. An RTA makes zip difference to you I know, I have no idea if it works or not but the arrogance to ask a controller where the RTA traffic is defies belief.

[Rim-job]

Myekppa…

I can almost count on 2 hands the amount of times I was given an RTA to slow down and effectively lose anywhere from 3-5 mins. Unfortunately, due to "operational reasons" :ok: …. I was unable to slow down. Upon arriving at Desdi/ Bubin and expecting to potentially hold… ATC assigns me high speed and significant track shortening. :}

Kinda makes ya wonder what the point of this RTA thing is… as it's obvious it doesn't correlate to anything. Especially EK inbound sequencing.

I'm gonna guess you're also one of the chaps that doesn't use any electronic devices on the flight deck because the policy says so… :ugh:

[Flying Spag Monster]

Gee Outatowner, I guess not following an RTA request from your company is your big protest, that will show them eh! Better not mess with you I reckon....Do you need a wheelbarrow to carry your balls around?

[springbok449]

Until every airline heading into DXB receives and follows RTA's the system won't really work, I am not saying that you should or shouldn't follow it just that it won't work...
A few years back LATCC were issuing all traffic heading to LHR and LGW RTA's at the land fall points off the ocean and it stopped after a couple of months as it wasn't working so not sure why EK think they will be different...

[LHR Rain]

Because EK is so arrogant they think whatever crap they spill out is reality.

[Outatowner]

Sorry for the delay getting back to you, Spag. I thought I already did but it didn't show up.

Anyway it's not about making a protest. No one with any common sense in his head makes a protest or raises his head above the parapet here. Maybe you haven't been here very long. I simply do what works for me, quietly, just as they do what works for them.

And it's all somewhat moot given the latest news on the topic, don't you think? That's what I've been doing all along!! But if you've been toeing the line all this time, then good for you. It doesn't bother me what anyone else does except the guys flying the freedom bird when I leave on vacation.

Thanks for asking about my balls. They're huge.

[Emma Royds]

I cant remember the last time I came back from Europe and I didn't have some sort of speed restriction imposed from either Baghdad or Bahrain. RTA then goes out the window. Nuff said!

[Fromagio]

So the other day we received an RTA asking us to slow down and arrive at Bubin 5 mins later than we were expecting to. We complied and when we reached Bubin, ATC peeled us off the arrival and gave us a direct to sedpo for a straight in to 30L. We landed 15mins earlier than we were originally going to with over a tonne more fuel than we would have had otherwise. Saved time and money!! This time at least, it worked out really well.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Have received them the last 2 flights. 1st worked out. Second via Turkey/Iraq, was asked to make up 5 mins (when in northern Iraqi airspace) at DESDI, obviously tried our best with continuous MOD Turbulence that we were getting, and made the time to within .5 minute. Still had to do 3 patterns in the hold :ugh: what to do!

SyB :zzz:

[Emma Royds]

It works a lot better with BUBIN arrivals compared to DESDI.

With the majority of BUBIN inbounds having previously been under procedural control prior to Muscat, there is less likelihood of there being an issue if you tweak the speed as there probably won't be anyone inside -/+ 10 mins of you at the same level anyway.

The same can't be said with coming in from the north through Iraq and further south. There just isn't the airspace available to slow down or speed up without often having a impact on the separation.