So...you wanna come work for the GCAA at the SZC?...think again!

[DESDI OR BUST]

Not to be a bore....BUT....

...if you're thinking of joining the wonderful ATCO's at the GCAA...probably best to stay where you are for now.

If you have family in tow, you will need approx 150k Dhs (30,000euro) in your back pocket to start off.

NO Housing allowance advanced,
NO Schooling
NO Flight home
Health Insurance changes at a whim leaving you having to pay straight up before waiting 2 months to get re-imbursed
Rent Cap removed in Abu Dhabi allowing landlords to charge whatever they want for rent
...and now barely any leave.
Moral is the lowest its been in a while
Deputy Supervisors castigated for doing their job and when they say they don't want to do the thankless, unpaid work their not contracted to do, you get shafted.

They've recently adjusted the leave policy but assured that this does not change ATCO entitlement but if you have ideas about other positions your fairly screwed. Apparently some guys at the top have had their leave slashed in half.

Will be interesting to see some guys go back home soon. We're quickly being priced out of the market here. Leave it to the rich and famous.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Sorry I can not see any problems with the package.


glf

[ironbutt57]

YIKES!!!!! sounds like we might be hearing different accents on the atc side of the radio

[Left Coaster]

I call a little BS on this one…if what is being said here is true, the ATCO is failing to follow UAE Employment conditions…school cover and flight(s) home are mandatory requirements, and part of any employees package. It might not be enough for this poor person, but it still has to be part of an allowance. Anyone else know if it's been changed?

[Rule3]

Many companies offer a "Package Deal"

You get X amount of Money, and you pay for everything. Medical Insurance is generally paid by the employer.

[DESDI OR BUST]

Not sure what laws u are refering to there left coaster but neither schooling or flights formed a part of any package at the SZC. NO BS I can assure u. The GCAA is a federal entity and not therefore signatory to laws that may pertain to Private Companies registered in the UAE. lots of talk now of people moving out. Plenty of opportunities beginning to crop up elsehwere.

[single chime]

"Plenty of opportunities beginning to crop up elsehwere."

I heard there were opening in DXB.

[ironbutt57]

so whats the pay then?...

[DESDI OR BUST]

For new entrant ATCO's pay is approx 53,000Dhs per month

That is the TOTAL package...nothing more.

Take your housing from that...if single probably around 10k-12k per month. (Note: Housing/Rent in the UAE is paid in full in advance of the year - 1 cheque (sometimes 2). The GCAA DO NOT advance you housing, therefore, you will need at least 1 years rent before coming here in order to find suitable accomm). If you are a family, lets say 2 adults, 2 kids, that housing could be anything from 13k-15k per month - again paid in advance by 1-2 cheques.

Take schooling for kids - paid per term. range from 36k-60k per year, Then average 50k per year per child = 100k per year divided by 12 months = 8,300Dhs per month approx.

Take a car loan (if you don't already have cash to purchase 1 or 2 cars outright) - I dunno, maybe 5-6k per month.

Utilities Bills - Single guy 2 bed apart in Marina - around 300 per month. Family in Villa in Springs or elsewhere, about 1200 - 2000plus per month during summer. Plus tv, internet, phones = 1000k per month TOTAL about 3000k per month.

Food - varies, but going up - single 500 a week maybe, family 1000 per week maybe = 2500 per month or 5000 per month.

Then Family on 52k per month minus 30k (approx) = 22k to live on. Minus some savings for pension. Believe me that a conservative figure. You WILL have a certain amount of debt to pay off to begin with if you come here with money for straight up rent, etc. Also, estate agents will rob you.

Have a nice day......

[ironbutt57]

not so generous to say the least..sucks for you guys:ooh:

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Is it that the package is designed for locals, and not expats.....???


as said one can not pony up the school fees, housing costs, car purchase, in advance,,,, and wait for 12 months to clear the previous years expenses, (plus the <5% increases).


edit: is SZC a Abu Dhabi or Dubai entity....


glf

[DESDI OR BUST]

SZC is in Abu Dhabi...GCAA a Federal Authority.

Not designed for locals and not designed for expats either. Locals have their own problems with the GCAA. They've significantly reduced their housing and basic salaries over the past 2 years. Locals pensions are based on both. A lot of unhappiness amongst them also.

To be honest, the package has been etched away for everyone over the past number of years and most are just about sick of it. :yuk:

SERCO and GAL both advance housing for their employees as well as schooling. Although, with SERCO it forms the total package and is not extra. But, on the other hand, SERCO packages in Bahrain and Doha are significantly better for families.

Muscat will be looking to staff their new Centre in the next couple of months. Will be interested to see the package they are willing to offer.

Nearly all of us really enjoy working here and living here. It is really great. But, the GCAA are not going to attract the kind of quality ATCO anymore thats needed to handle the increase in traffic (10% approx per year. At present about 2300 movements per day.)

Rumors that all contracts will change next month. I hope its not a case of take it or leave it and they make it worse than it already is.

I just don't get these guys. Look after your staff and they'll return the compliment 10 fold. It pretty simple really.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I was aware of the location, but curious if it was considered a Dubai or Abu Dhabi gig. if Abu then accommodation should if funded by government then should be in Abu, but as you say they are not funding accommodation.


I was not aware that the local staff had problems with the package....I was under the impression that they would be cosseted , and encouraged. Silly me.

In any organization, the staff are the biggest asset, and also the biggest expense, (except if 380 operator.!!!!)



Thanks for the overview. Glf

[allrounder99]

Gulfstream, its not considered an Abu Dhabi gig, its just in Abu Dhabi so we don't need to live there.

Actually the locals earn more than the expats, to the tune of between 1 and 2 thousand US per month, but as DESDI or BUST said, are unhappy too.

Im interested in the comment about contracts changing next month.... who said that?

[DESDI OR BUST]

Leave for ATCO's now confirmed as 22 working days per year. NO....I say again....NO compensatory days for working public holidays. ATCO's were advised via HR that they basically get paid better than everyone else and this makes up for not getting comp days.

A number of expat places to become available this year....wonder where the next crop will appear from cause it aint gonna be from the usual spots.

An air of unease and unhappiness has befallen and otherwise ok place to work. The GCAA has really pulled out all the stops this time and royaly ass:mad: their employees. Well done chaps....well done!!!

[Laker]

Well you make about the same as an EK pilot if not more. At least the FO's.

EK Base salary- 27k
Flight Pay- appx 4k
Housing Allowance- 13k
Scholing- Not sure since I don't have kids. But can't imagine it's more than 4k/month.
8 days off per month minimum

So a single FO at EK makes about 44k per month if he/she takes the housing allowance.

[DESDI OR BUST]

Perhaps so but only in numbers. The stark reality is that EK offer pilots a lot more in terms of housing (choice between good EK appointed housing or an allowance in lieu) with all utilities paid for. Also, schooling is covered as EK have debentures with many Dubai schools which allows kids almost no hassle first place entries. No waiting and no fees which is all covered by EK. Also, flights home are a big bonus. ID 50 and ID 90 along with a free flight home once per year for u and family. Time off is great (well at least for some of the FOs I know, can't say the same for Captains). And that's the way it should be.

The GCAA have continuously confirmed to us that they absolutely do not understand our work. Traffic levels have soared and will continue to do so, no pay rises whatsoever only pay reductions with ATCOs having to bear the brunt of excessive rent rises and cost of living. Housing allowance discontinued, no schooling, and health insurance providers changing on a whim. No 22 annual leave days per year reduced from 34. This equates to yet another pay reduction. More traffic, more stress, less money in the pocket to live off and a continually lowering moral.

No CVs on the desks and people seriously considering a move. This isn't idle chit chat and people will walk if given the opportunity.

All this and you've got one very pissed off bunch of controllers controlling YOUR aircraft.

HR have no idea what they have allowed to happen. The whole idea of time off for pilots and controllers is that they can use the time to get away from what has traditionally been a stressful job. Come back rested and continue to do what we all love. There are a whole lot of issues around leave including fatigue. No understanding and not expected either.

[ferris]

Unbelievably stupid management decision- must be a Rhiis legacy. At a time when you would think they would be making the UAE contract a benchmark to attract talent, they try these stupid stunts. Genius.

GCAA: worldwide ATC JOKE. Well done. Can't wait for the ads in Flight.

[west atc]

Well you make about the same as an EK pilot if not more. At least the FO's.

Sorry but ATC is not equal to an FO job.

Daily aircraft movements through UAE FIR early 2010 - ~1750
Daily aircraft movements through UAE FIR late 2013 ~ 2350.

Obviously someone is making more money but it's not the controllers doing the work...

[allrounder99]

West is right. You can't compare ATC to FO or Captains.

Let's not start a pissing contest here it's irrelevant.

Word is there is a meeting today to discuss and settle it once and for all.

[DESDI OR BUST]

No pissing contest. Comparing packages is all. The intricacies of the job are much alike and nothing wrong with comparing benefits at all.

[west atc]

However the package compares to other jobs/industries it is clearly not enough given that there has been no pay rise for over 5 years. There are a lot of rumors of people leaving, at least 10-15 are looking at other jobs and are a good chance to be not with GCAA by the end of the year. I wonder how Emirates and The other airline are going to handle the reduced services provided when there are not enough staff working at the SZC.

Those of us working there cannot stress highly enough, DO NOT APPLY TO GCAA, you will regret it!

[allrounder99]

And it seems we might all be getting yearly renewable contracts now........:ugh:

[Baileys]

So that then they can legally reduce your terms, conditions and salary every year (not that legally really matters there). Sign it or leave must be the continuing HR motto.

[west atc]

I get the feeling yearly renewal contracts won't make a difference to a lot of people, up to half the current ATCs could be gone within 12 months anyway. :ugh:q

[Number2]

Don't worry. I'm sure the Chinese and Indian controllers that the Board are so keen on will take the available jobs.

[Baileys]

"up to half leaving"... no chance. Tell 'em they're dreamin....

There's always those willing to take it..

[Number2]

Seems GCAA can't even pay us on time now. It just gets better every day. What a bunch of clowns.

[allrounder99]

pay day is the 25th of each month......

[DESDI OR BUST]

....but today is the 27th.....hehe

No change to the leave status as yet....Director ATM has resigned :uhoh:. No doubt more to follow in his wake. Yearly renewable contract to be distributed within the next couple of weeks. What a bunch of :mad:holes.

[Undercover Brother]

Hey folks,

Any updates for pay/conditions?

A few jobs being advertised at the moment.

Cheers

[vinayak]

How does one become a ATCO?

[DESDI OR BUST]

Approx 8 people within their notice period at present. The writing is on the wall......:ugh:

Al Ain APP dangerously below required staffing at the Centre.......numbers of controllers approaching critical.......morale could not be any lower. Most are well and truly sick and tired of GCAA's ignorance to their staff as well as the lack of strong leadership at the SZC. Manager ATC has still not been replaced. ORSAR traffic a complete shambles and putting ATCO's in extreme danger of losing separation, their licences and the plot!!

Collapsing under its own weight.....it is but a matter of time.

[ruserious]

Feel your pain Desdi, hope things improve, as we really don't want to rely on TCAS to sort out a lack of quality controllers, resources and inept policies.

[ABBOT]

Deal appears similar to what I have heard regarding FZ 'b' scale captains, that sounds a bit thin as well. Interestingly, same issues apply.


A fair few long term employees have headed, or are considering heading for the door.

Ratio of cost, AKA tax with free healthcare, schooling and savings of living in own house versus no tax out of control housing, schooling and healthcare costs are now nearing the magical 1:1.

I am guessing a fair few people are playing with the numbers now, interesting to see the conclusions that are drawn.

[DESDI OR BUST]

Operation Intimidation has begun.....Management now intimidating controllers into staying put. := A number of Controllers over the past few days have been called by management saying that resignations could not be accepted. Sounds like Al Ain APP is going down the tubes with a possible halt to operations in the near future....that might put some noses out of joint. Time to dust off the CV.....

The race to the bottom continues unabated....

[SOPS]

Sounds like a certain airline telling Cabin Crew they won't accept their resignations, must be some sort of MO in the UAE.

[DCS99]

Only here have I heard of the company refusing to accept resignations.

Unbelievable!

[west atc]

Dubai International eyes 20m passengers in last quarter | GulfNews.com (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/dubai-international-eyes-20m-passengers-in-last-quarter-1.1394905)

[Satellite Man]

My personal opinion on this is that salaries in the UAE are very low considering the traffic load, the roster, etc etc Apart from that, moving there is like a leap into the void, taking into account that the way back to one's current position is uncertain, the term of the contract is just one year, and a million of things can go wrong.

I would consider a move to the UAE if the pay was awesome and I was provided for free with a very good accommodation (and I mean a very nice villa, which is what I have now at home), but right now conditions are not good enough.

[sandy_muk]

apart from salary do they pay bonus housing allowances and children eduction allowance and how many paid leave in a year

[DESDI OR BUST]

34 Days paid leave

No housing advance...No Schooling advance

Bonus might as well not exist.

[Satellite Man]

It sounds pretty bad to have to advance one year rent etc etc..

Do you think there are plans to hire more controllers, I mean, to increase the current staff instead of just replacing the guys that are leaving?

[nonewsisbadnews]

So should I apply or not...... UK controller....got the tickets...got the time in....how bad is it really....?

[Kiwikid]

Speaking from a UAE point of view in general, it's not great. Depends mostly on your personal situation though of course. If you are single or just a couple, are prepared to live in a smallish apartment and have some cash available to set yourself up (100000-150000dhs at least for rent, car, deposits etc), and are prepared to work your arse off propping up a failing system then sure, go for it. If you have a family, forget it.

[west atc]

So should I apply or not...... UK controller....got the tickets...got the time in....how bad is it really....?


Short answer, no, you will regret it...

[nonewsisbadnews]

Seems there is little positive news from your end of the empire...question or am i asking the blxxding obvious....what got you over there in the first place......and how long before you realised that the sand is not always greener on that side of the fence

[DESDI OR BUST]

It is not a matter of realizing that the sand may or may not be "greener". In fact it is a case of how much one can accept before it just gets too much. Look, the Middle East, in particular UAE, Bahrain, Oman have been attractive to Westerners for decades. And it is important to know that it is not just for the money we come; only in recent times has money actually been an attraction. People have to come to the Middle East for a long time before that and for different reasons.

Staying here is the easiest decision to make if you are open minded and willing to accept the bad with the good. Bad being relative of course. You might experience "bad" weather in Europe or some parts of the US during winter. And because of this, you decide a move to warmer climes might be a worthwhile idea. Likewise with income tax, cultural attitudes, economics, etc. YOU evaluate your current circumstances and try to put them into perspective. YOU then decide. My point is, people move here for lots of different reasons and time here exposes us to "abnormalities" as we see it when we put it in context with our own cultures and norms. It is how much you are willing to spend time with these "abnormalities" and accept them for what they are. It is a biased western view of the world that stops many from staying here longer. (Only one reason of course....there are many others).

However, the current environment at the ACC in Abu Dhabi is froth with insecurity and instability. Most importantly, a lack of strong leadership has contributed to the constant outwards flow of experience. Not just controllers, but experience. This is crippling.

SERCO have now lost the contract to provide a certain amount of controllers, engineers and ATCAs from January. It unfortunately leaves few amused. Small increase for those with experience, but most for those in the door. It will create a divide which always has the potential to impact on operational safety. This, the management do not, I am sure, understand.

The ACC was a great place to work. Traffic was chaotic but fun and team spirit was better. Now, traffic has grown with much the same airspace structure with little change. Controllers are being pushed to the edge of that seat everyday with little assurances if something goes wrong. The culture is that of blame and apportioning it is what they do best. If you choose to come here, you will work with some of the finest and experienced in the industry. Controllers love what they do. But be prepared to be put back in your place just when you think all is good. Life in the Middle East is truly wonderful. So much to soak up, so many friends to meet.....but work hard, play hard. Take the bad with the good and you'll do just fine. But do your sums before coming here.....it is expensive!

[DESDI OR BUST]

Another "top brass" resignation this week.....more ATCO's singing their way to the exits.....time to throw in the towel boys and girls. :ugh: Recovery is unlikely. It's not comfortable here anymore. The descent continues. How far does it need to fall before heads will roll?

[cello78ss]

Hi Desdi or Bust,
it seems you know very well what is going on there.
But what about the working conditions?I mean what about shifts,or holidays,or relief during your work?How is the work organized?
You also talked a lot about safety, what in case an accident occurred?There would be any possibility to be fired for that?(I mean a TCAS or something like that,not a real incident)
I'm seriously thinking about moving there for some years and I'd like to evaluate everything first.
Thank you for your time

[Flyer555]

New job advert out...

Have things improved since this thread stopped?
No salary on ad this time. Any sign of school fees being paid? (3 kids)

Cheers for info.....

F.

[west atc]

Have things improved since this thread stopped?
No salary on ad this time. Any sign of school fees being paid? (3 kids)

No, if anything things have gotten worse, still no pay rise despite all the talk of one. There were a few staff that changed from SERCO to GCAA that got a raise but the existing GCAA controllers are still on the same pay for the last 7 years.

If you have kids forget it, no schooling paid and no chance it will be paid, school fees are going up again so that's another pay cut. If you have 3 kids you will not survive here even on the new pay rate that the ex-SERCO controllers are on.

People are leaving, we are currently around 25 short and it's not getting any better.

The bonus is that if you come you are almost guaranteed to pass, the standard has dropped so low that every one passes no matter how bad they are.

Think carefully about coming and don't come here and complain after a few months about how bad it is, you have been warned.

[avoiee]

Hi everyone

should i apply and send resume? 6+ years acc

on first page someone mentioned atcos make 50 K +- local currency , even if you save half thats not that horrible number :)

what you guys think?

need to change something in my life , this would suit me just fine i think

[allrounder99]

even if you save half thats not that horrible number

what you guys think?

Single guy or girl, this is possible but still not worth coming due to conditions at work.

Family = Not possible. Costs are so high here, don't be fooled by the apparent high salary. We are the hardest working, (traffic numbers) and worst paid controllers in the UAE, excluding some of the Abu Dhabi "controllers".

Stay at home, you will regret coming. Conditions are getting worse by the day.

[Atco126]

Hello,
Is there any improvement on the working conditions ? Salaries ? If someone want to quit, when can he or she give his or her resignation ? And how could they not accept ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Sandeywison]

hi there fellows,

News about SZC?

[pilotguy1222]

Hi Desdi or Bust,
it seems you know very well what is going on there.

Thank you for your time

Everything except for the housing cost. You could rent a nice 3 bedroom in the Dubai Marina for 12-14k per month. Hell, you could have a 1100sq ft 1-bedroom in the Burj Khalifa for that price.
Plenty of companies or landlords will accept more than 2 checks, but the fewer checks the lower the price.

[tech49]

Does anyone know if the conditions have changed?

Is it possible to live in Dubai and work at SZC, I mean commuting and stuff?

[Dubaian]

It is possible to drive back and forth but not recommended. Depends a lot on where you live in Dubai. Somewhere on the south side with good access to SZH will help.
Foggy mornings make it a very dangerous drive.

I did the Deira side of the Creek in Dubai (the wrong side) to Masdar City (very close to SZC) for 6 months. OK going in the morning. Approx 1 hour. Nightmare coming back in the evening - solid traffic from Jebel Ali inbound.

There may also be restrictions on where you live if you are drawing an accommodation allowance from the Abu Dhabi Govt.

[tech49]

It is possible to drive back and forth but not recommended. Depends a lot on where you live in Dubai. Somewhere on the south side with good access to SZH will help.
Foggy mornings make it a very dangerous drive.

I did the Deira side of the Creek in Dubai to Masdar City for 6 months. OK going in the morning. Approx 1 hour. Nightmare coming back in the evening - solid traffic from Jebel Ali inbound.

There may also be restrictions on where you live if you are drawing an accommodation allowance from the Abu Dhabi Govt.

Thanks for the info. Someone mentioned that there are no allowances anymore, you just get the salary, and everything is included.

[Dubaian]

Ah I forgot - there is also now a new road parallel to SZH but further inland. Pitches you out pretty close to AUH airport. Might make commuting more practical. Especially from places like Arabian Ranches, Silicon Oasis, Mirdiif, etc.....

Anyone done it using the new highway?