Flt Ops Officer

[CptDesire]

Hi all,

Currently serving and looking to commission, I can't seem to find out much information on FOO I'm wondering if anyone can share any details. Day to do job? Possible career opportunities after first posting etc and what ever else is open.

I'm in Afghan at the mo and due to the job I'm doing can't get down to the Tower to speak to anyone otherwise I wouldn't be posting on here.

I've looked on other forums and FOOs seem to get quite a lot of stick however it does seem to be an important job. Any insight would be greatly appreciated thank you.

[Daf Hucker]

Standby for incoming! :}

[Door Slider]

Try:

Page not found - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/find-jobs/air-operations-support/flight-operations-officer/)

Don't bothere visiting the tower, you would be better of going to see the chaps at the Flight Ops, Aviation HQ.

[Courtney Mil]

That looked like a broken link for some reason. I'll try:

Flight Operations Officer - Air operations support careers - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/flightopsofficer.cfm)

[Herod]

I guess things have moved on, but that used to be a ground tour for pilots.

[StopStart]

Yes. I believe I'm right in saying that things "moved on" about 13+ years ago.....

[scarecrow450]

Now its a job for failed JATCC students !

[CptDesire]

The RAF careers website is rather vague. Regardless of your opinions it is a career I would like to find more about before making a decision hence my postings here looking for help.

[Rossian]

.....have you thought about visiting the ops room where you are at the moment? There are sure to be one or two Ops officers there??

The Ancient Mariner

[MPN11]

Now its a job for failed JATCC students!

Having sat on numerous Reassignment Boards, at least there's somewhere for people to go who have an interest and commitment to keeping people flying. They are commissioned, they have the requisite PQs, they're just lacking the skill set for ATC.

Don't kick them when they're down, matey ... not everyone can do ATC as well as some of us used to, in the days when there were more than 3 aircraft airborne. :p

And having seen your AATC profile, :eek: :mad:
Mind your back as you leave, in case the door knob hurts you.

[Wallah]

Check your PM's

I've had a bloody good time as Flight Ops Officer. Working for and with aircrew, of all varieties, over the years hasn't put me off (and even got me promoted once :bored:).

Most of the early dross has now been weeded out. What's left are generally a bunch of dedicated, hard working people who do a good job.

[Canadian Break]

............and clearly, you only go to join the Air Traffic Branch when you fail to become a FC!:E

[Melchett01]

Isn't the Flt Ops Training School also known as Failed Other Training Systems :E ?

Yes, very tongue in cheek, but if you are in BSN get down to JAG and speak to the MAOTs - Mobile Air Ops Teams. They are Flt Ops and do some of the more interesting stuff with the helicopter force. If you are less interested in sitting in a FJ ops room sorting maps ;) and would prefer to get out and about, possibly getting out on the ground, going forward with Army units who need someone to set up HLSs, act as de facto advisors / liaison for RW use etc it is an interesting job.

A chap I know went down the MAOT route after a few years on sqn. After years of making tea (badly) he found himself doing the Infantry Platoon Commander's Battle Course at Brecon and came home from theatre 6 months later with a couple of extra holes in his smock that definitely weren't part of the manufacturer's spec and a MID for his troubles whilst attached to a BG. As with all branches and jobs, some postings are crunchier than others, but if you want to do something a bit more hands on rather than commission into Handbrake House or Blanket Central you could do worse than Flt Ops if you don't wan't to / can't actually fly.

[Tankertrashnav]

BSN - JAG - HLS - RW - BG :confused:

FFS!

[scarecrow450]

And having seen your AATC profile,
Mind your back as you leave, in case the door knob hurts you.

Sorry I wasn't having a dig but the amount of failed JATCC students seen on FOTF are many, fact !
I'm not the one having a problem with a knob !

Sorry I'll make a profile next just to keep you happy ! :ugh:

[mymatetcm]

Perhaps a visit to Shawbury may provide all the answers you need, if you need to be spoon fed unlikely you will get through the selection system

[Party Animal]

Is it true that lesson one started with a picture of a runway and the words 'This is a runway. You will notice that it is longer than it is wide'? ;)

[dallas]

The Flight Ops Officer - YouTube

I have been 'commanded', 'led' - insert other euphemism - by some who modelled for the video above. But there are also some good guys out there who are starting to catch up with the early chisellers who stayed and got default promotion.

The official descriptions of FOO are often vague, mainly because end job can be pretty diverse, and the core course can only go so far. Said course circa 2001 lacked some credibility, but it must have improved!

[Wallah]

Just for the record, I wasn't chopped from JATCC, I was chopped from Boulmer :) JATTC must have been desperate at the time as they subsequently offered me a place but I thought Flt Ops sounded more fun.

The policy on the number of reselectees changed a few years ago; with the emphasis shifting firmly to direct entrants, with just a few re-treds and an equal number from the ranks.

I think our first lecture started with "As this has been deemed to be an attendance cse you will not be allowed to move into the main Mess, but will stay in the port a cabins for the duration of the course"! Nice.....

[Melchett01]

BSN - JAG - HLS - RW - BG

FFS

Oh come on TTN, do keep up with the times! Rotary is where it's at these days.

PS you missed a couple .. FJ, MID ;)

[Rossian]

.....TTN has been out for a while, as have I. These may well be common abbvs. these days but if someone makes an effort to keep in touch with the organisation they spent a large part of their lives working in, don't crap on them with the smart arse answers.

The response to the OP was also pretty ****ty. I think he's probably thinking twice about following through on his original idea.

Oh, and spare me the "it's only a bit of banter" IYCTAJYSHJ sort of reply.

The Ancient Mariner

[Toadstool]

AM et al

MID - Mention in Despatches
BG - Battle Group
HLS - Helicopter Landing Site
RW - Rotary Wing
BSN - Bastion
JAG - (Joint Air Group B%?)

The OP who is currently serving would presumably know these TLAs although I appreciate you old timers :-) may not have known. I also thought that advice ref MAOT rather than an Ops Room was excellent advice and may have been an angle with which the OP may have been unaware.

[MPN11]

This old scrote knew all of those TLAs. Do I get a prize? :cool:

[Melchett01]

Rossian,

I'll give you BSN & JAG if you left pre-HERRICK kick off, but the rest are standard mil abbreviations anybody should know if they've been in for more than a dog's watch. You do know about these new fangled helicopter things don't you ?

And if the OP is in theatre he will know exactly what BSN and JAG are. I can only assume you missed the irony in my reply to TTN.

[orca]

What's an OP?

[gijoe]

Hole dug in the ground, sticks used to cover the hole, periscope stuck over the top and the baddies watched.

...but that's not important right now.

It might also be source of this thread.

G:ok:

[orca]

That would be a SOTT. ;)

[CptDesire]

Genuinely thanks for the help fellas I appreciate the majority of the replies, even if it is turning into a pissing contest between trade groups. The MAOTs sound very interesting, how easy is it to go down this route?

To whoever wrote I probably will not pass the aptitude tests if I'm looking to be spoon fed; I plan to visit JAG when I get the opportunity however I'm on a quite a high turn around at the moment and out on the ground the majority of the time. As I don't have the time to get down there at present and with the careers website being rather vague I posted on here looking for answers and advice- I don't see a problem with that. Some people have been a lot of help despite a lot of negative comments on here. One of the big bonus' of the job is it seems to have a lot of variety however a lot of people currently serving are saying the trade is on borrowed time and likely to be amalgamated with ABM and ATC, is there any truth to this?

[gijoe]

Standby SDSR15 - if you don't know what that is then find out sharp!

Everything, repeat everything, is on the table for amalgamation, cutting, etc

G:ok:

[Toadstool]

Good luck with whatever you do though. Enthusiasm and a will to succeed, which you appear to have, will help you go a long way.

[langleybaston]

say again all after "good morning" please.

[Tankertrashnav]

PS you missed a couple .. FJ, MID http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Well I dispensed a lot of fuel to FJ's over the years so I knew that one, and as one of PPRuNe's resident medal buffs I knew MID.

But thanks to Toadstool for the explanation of the others :ok:

[plans123]

Rule of thumb in an Ops Room:

1 SAC = 1 Flt Ops Off
1 Cpl = 2 Flt Ops Off
1 Sgt FOM = 4 Flt Ops Off

:ok:

[Wallah]

You forgot to mention the bit about knowing when you have good Flt Ops O as we can count to more than 10 without taking our shoes and socks off and know how to answer a phone (well at least get it the right way up 9 times out of 10)! :eek:

[Canadian Break]

Branch old thing, not trade.

[Pontius Navigator]

I had the job on mentoring an abo FOO. She was one of 3 FOO, then other two were retreaded scribblies. Mine, OTOH, was only part Ops and part computer systems manager. Her following tour was as an Ops O with SOpsO in mind.

Fast forward about 6-7 years and she was an SO2 in 1 Gp and after that served as Sqn Ldr Ops.

I have momentarily lost sight of her but I am sure I could find out what she is up to now.

[Pontius Navigator]

You forgot to mention the bit about knowing when you have good Flt Ops O as we can count to more than 10 without taking our shoes and socks off and know how to answer a phone (well at least get it the right way up 9 times out of 10)! :eek:

Ah, that explains the basic nav stude we had in the late 80s (pre-flt ops) she used to take her shoes off. Drove her course commander mad (maybe he had a feet fetish) (Sorry Alec :))

[Hoots]

MAOT is a great job, which certainly gives you a varied and interesting workload. Currently there are 7 Flt Ops Os and 6 NCA. For the Os they are typically second tourists minimum. Most of the NCA are Masters, but not all. They also come from different backgrounds, not just rotary. All in all a most enjoyable and interesting tour, which gives you a massive respect for the infantry and the conditions they work in.

[CptDesire]

MAOT sounds an interesting job, is it open only to Flt Ops? What tasking do they do and what route would a Flt Ops Officer have to go down to this job?

Thanks.

[Wallah]

A first tour in SH can't hurt; then put it in your OJAR and hope that the Desk Officer is on your side and there is a slot. Like all posts there's an element of luck but you can do a lot to help yourself. However, like all things there are no guarantees, if your timing is out or the gods are just not on your side you may not crack it.

[CptDesire]

Is MAOT postings specifically for Flt Ops or is it open to any trade?

[Biggus]

CptD,

Just remember that by the time you get your commission, pass IOT, trade training, etc (let alone maybe have to be a 2nd tourist) we won't be in Afghanistan, at least not in any numbers, maybe just a minor training role. The British Army will have shrunk, and the same will probably go for the SH fleet.

Thus, while the MAOT role may well still be one of the better slots for a FOO, it may be a case of spending a lot of time on Salisbury plain and the Brecon Beacons, rather than somewhere sunny and potentially more exciting.

Just a thought. Make of it what you will...

I suggest you take one hurdle at a time, starting with getting a commission. Best of luck! :ok:

[CptDesire]

Biggus thanks for the reply, I'm currently serving RAF Regiment so spending extended periods of time in minus temperatures on barren training areas is not a totally new concept to me.

[Pontius Navigator]

Do you have a particular interest in becoming a FOO?

Son-in-law, now a sqn ldr was a Cpl in the RAF Regt. He failed to qualify in his preferred branch, was re-treaded, and is now doing well in his new specialisation.

[CptDesire]

Pontius I'll PM you.

[Wallah]

CptDesire.

MAOT is a cracking tour, which you are probably well placed for, but it will only be a single tour. Before you jump you need to make sure you could spend the rest of your career in the specialization without going nuts (it will be one of the things you are asked about). I once had a TG9 Cpl working for me who was ex French Foreign Legion, joined the RAF on the promise of Tac ATC etc and then spent most of the next 12 years doing his nut in various towers, desperately volunteering for anything vaguely war like without much joy.........

PS It might be worth getting on Landing Point Commanders cse now (if it still exists and you can sell it to your Boss) it's good fun and will give you a taste of the job.

[CptDesire]

What are a Flt Ops Off's responsibilities on MAOT?

[Biggus]

Making the tea for the people who do the real work...? ;)

[NutLoose]

I once had a TG9 Cpl working for me who was ex French Foreign Legion, joined the RAF on the promise of Tac ATC etc and then spent most of the next 12 years doing his nut in various towers, desperately volunteering for anything vaguely war like without much joy.........

We had a CPL armourer. In the same boat, joined as an armourer and promised he could remuster once in to a musician, had a degree in music and was a qualified teacher, was gutted and held a chip about it throughout his career.

Strange how the FOO position has the same traning period as the assistant... 12 weeks

[Wallah]

Not quite Biggus.

When I worked in the SH Force (late 90's I was attached to the MAOTs for a couple of months before moving up to SHF HQ) MAOTs were attached to Battle Groups and responsible for planning and the coordinating helicopter moves. That could be anything from a simple day platoon move to running a multi-lane HLS at night on NVGs to move the entire BG. They would also go out a recce HLSs and help out with one off lifts eg recovering a CVRT or Chinook.

To help them out they normally had a 2 man team from the Royal Sigs to run their comms. There was also a National Standby commitment and a requirement for a couple of them to be Para qualed. They also worked closely with JHSU, who rigged the loads and owned the HUSLE (Helicopter Under Slung Load Equipment).

Generally they were very busy (though they were responsible for updating the HLS directories, so it wasn't all hard work). Of course, it may have changed a bit since then, but it used to be one of those jobs where you were the rotary expert in the BG and had to be able to plan, brief and execute moves with bugger all support (though making a brew for your Siggies every now and again went a long way). It was one of those jobs that sorted the men from the boys rather quickly.

[Hoots]

All changed a bit now, MAOTs combined with JHSU to form JHSS a few years ago. We no longer have external siggies attached. Anyone in this job can expect to spend a lot of hours behind a steering wheel, 1900 miles in the past 5 days for example, probably around 18000 miles in service MT this year, and all within driving hours before anyone says anything.