Speed record MEL-SYD

[Ivasrus]

United 840 today managed it in 50 minutes. Departed 34, landed 07, ATC assigned max speed.

Any 727 anecdotes?

[Capt Fathom]

A TAA Electra did it in 54 mins!

I seem to recall..... 48 mins Ansett B727 .....but I don't know why!

[down3gr33ns]

and the TAA (remember them?) DC-9 that overtook a 727 ........................ and the 727 wasn't slouching.

caught the interest of the ATC radar guys.

something about a max airspeed warning CB being pulled rings a bell.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Given the speed of the B727, and the routing back a few years, I would think that the B727 would have to hold the record.

Looking at the timetable times of the 1960's tells an interesting story of block times getting longer and longer.

Ain't "progress" wonderful.

Tootle pip!!

[Mister Warning]

Anyone else feel it would be sacrilege for an orange 787 to steal the record :(

[Dora-9]

Leady:

Back when I was a boy, DC-9 times MEL-SYD would often be as least as quick as a B727 (certainly rarely any slower). Far better initial acceleration aided by a simpe flap retraction profile, and the ability to maintain high speed until much, much closer to the field tended to balance out the B727's higher cruising Mach.

And Down3gr, at least one of the DC-9 overtaking the Boeing incidents involved an AN DC-9 with the overspeed warning CB pulled.

Doubtless Emeritus, a DC-9 operator par excellence, can expand on this...

[Karunch]

Mister, the orange one couldn't get all their standard calls in if flight time under 50 mins.

[falconx]

Avalon to Richmond in the old mighty pig in 33mins

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

My first ever aeroplane ride was aboard the 3-holer from BNE - SYD in 1964.

My recollection is that the airlines used to advertise "under an hour" for that trip.

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

About 8 years ago was flying as pax in a VB738 when a woman passenger had a brain aneurism just as we were about to reach top of climb from Mel to Syd. Had there not been a doctor on board we would have turned around. What an experience and pat on the back for the pilot and FO, they had us an emergency clearance into Sydney in a matter of seconds, drinks service was cancelled and we got the ride of our lives in that 738 with a hand flown approach dodging clouds. It was amazingly loud in the front row with the air whistling around the front doors, have never experienced anything like it commercially. We arrived at least 15 minutes early where an ambulance and the husband were waiting. Would love to know how quick that trip was.... For a 738 anyway :-) I remember a lot about that flight as I was baby sitting the woman's three young children in seat 1C with Angry Anderson in 1B.

[Frank Arouet]

Sydney to Melbourne would have been a quicker trip, being downhill and all that. At least it is on my map.

[Capn Bloggs]

Looking at the timetable times of the 1960's tells an interesting story of block times getting longer and longer.

Der, fuel costs maybe...

[Capt Fathom]

Looking at the timetable times of the 1960's tells an interesting story of block times getting longer and longer.

How about SIDS and STARS with their extra track miles, altitude restrictions and speed limits!

[27/09]

Longer block times.

How about SIDS and STARS with their extra track miles, altitude restrictions and speed limits! About sums it up.

[Pinky the pilot]

Teresa Green once told an interesting story about just how fast the DC9 could move. :hmm:

He still around?

[Nautilus Blue]

Shallower decent profiles of more modern types can't help. A 767 will leave a A330 for dead descending ago the same speed.

[megle2]

Pinky, Teresa seems to have vanished from PP
Hope he is ok

[john_tullamarine]

Can't recall any races MELSYD but, on one memorable trip we were racing some mates in the blue tail 727 down the coast from up north. Naturally enough, they cheated and called a U/S which put them at FL250 for each sector so we had to do better on climb and descent ...

Plan was to get far enough ahead on time to pax the final leg SYDMEL on the prior flight to that programmed ....

Worked a treat until we beat them into SYD by a few minutes and taxied in feeling quite smug .. to find the desired aircraft in the bay we were assigned and no others available .. you guessed it .. after sitting there for a lifetime, turning and burning, they taxied and we finally could drive into the gate ...

We did, however, do our bit for the fuel companies that day ...

[ivan ellerbai]

an interesting story about just how fast the DC9 could move. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

He still around?


I'm aware of one TAA Capt where there was a parting of the ways after such an event.

[Buttscratcher]

If you '9 boys were so fast, why aren't 71s ruling the airways? It's a '9 on steroids after all!
Hard pressed to beat a 72 on that route given it's Mmo of .88 and the old Vmo of 380. The 200-17 sat nicely at FL320 at . 82 into .84. Top that!

[Dora-9]

Read my earlier post again please. Ansett B727's cruised at M .8 or .82 (when I was on them anyway), so with the B727 at FL330 there's not much difference in TAS with a DC-9 doing .76 at around FL270/290, particularly as the 9 was already out in front during the climb. Since we're talking about MEL-SYD, the inevitable tailwind would proportionately reduce the speed advantage the Boeing held too. On longer trips the B727 would win, but certainly not MEL-SYD

[Capn Bloggs]

If you '9 boys were so fast, why aren't 71s ruling the airways? It's a '9 on steroids after all!
It's all about the fuel burn these days, Bloggs...

Big donks good for countering drag on takeoff, can't make wing go any faster at high altitude. Once a railway line, always a railway line! :ok:

[Borram]

It was great back when we had 3 holers and DC9s running around. As an ATC when we asked them to go max, they knew what the word meant. Now, they panic and slow down so bloody early , except Air NZ who still know how to fly. A few years ago we had the same situation with a UAL 747 Mel-Syd straight in on 07. He was showing 300+ on radar at Glenfield. Slowed down and configured no problems. Ask a domestic Airbus of any sort to do that now and hear the panic in their voices.

[LeadSled]

Captain Fathom,
Exactly!!

Bloggs,
The max range cruise MNo. for a B727 was probably faster than average cruise speeds on many current aircraft.

But it ain't normal cruise speeds that set records, it is the max. speeds. Back in the GODs, we climbed a B747 at 360, cruise 0.88, descent 0.88/360 to 3000', to meet schedule on N.American sectors. Great fun!!

Tootle pip!!

[Flava Saver]

Borram, as a 'bus driver, I wish we could go 'flat chat' like old days have it, but it's the BS company requirements that's hindered such efforts. I just wish I was being powered by a JT8D now'a'days. :*

We just wish we got more direct tracking and high speed from ATC like the old days, instead of having to ask for it. :}

[Nautilus Blue]

We just wish we got more direct tracking and high speed from ATC like the old days

Thats because most of us have learned that if you are going to resolve a dead heat with high speed, you give it the one thats not a 'bus :p

[Tiger35]

I still maintain that an Electra could be about a minute faster than a 727 on the SYD - MEL, or vice versa, legs - in the old days when pilots ruled the airlines and still had some fun flying.


Modern jets and operational policy probably means the Electra may still hold the "record".


When the race was on the Electra could maintain >250 kts until pretty close to the runway, whereas the 727 had to start slowing down way out, no matter how hard they tried to delay config until the last possible minute.


SIDs and STARs weren't around and the Electra needed Approach Control to help out with shortest track and either a short base or straight in. Any holding or speed control and the jet won.


When the Ansett/QANTAS race was on with jets on the SYD - MEL route in the early 90's QF started cheating when departing SYD behind AN by running their 767s at FL290 to get to 120 ML first, and hog the descent. WHY? Beers in the bar and bugger the rest.

[Capt Casper]

Remember Canberra Sydney in 17 minutes, hot breakfast included, once! B727! I think the indigestion is still with me! My leg, captain ate first.

[Capn Bloggs]

My leg, captain ate first.
As one should always do when food is involved on a short sector...then the PNF can get the ATIS without rushing his dinner afterward. CRM 101! :}

[zlin77]

Ah..SYD-CBR on the 727..on average 19 minutes airborne, brief the F/As "Wheels-up, meals-up"…the F/E would look after ATIS, calling company, read the checklist etc. all we had to do was eat..!

[Ozdork]

Zlin, I remember doing a 17 min SYD - CBR on a VB 737 - 25 departure (from the old VB gates/shed) and a straight in runway 17. It was the fastest on record by the tine I had left VB but I guess one of those ejets would now claim that one.

[Dora-9]

SYD-CBR and v.v. were sectors where the DC-9 really shone, because the lower cruise Mach didn't matter (the sectors were flown at FL200/210) while the aircaft's strengths (rapid clean up with superb acceleration combined with the ability to keep the speed up on arrival until very close) had a proportionately greater influence.

I can't recall the times, but departing 35 at CBR to land on 07 at SYD was very quick indeed, yet the redoubtable Vince C*****s always managed a seemingly leisurely breakfast!

[C441]

Did a 50 min MEL 27 to SYD 34L in a 767 to beat curfew one evening. It needed some ATC assistance - right turn off 27 direct to base 34L - and a flat-out cruise at FL280. Of course there were no company speed restrictions in those days. :rolleyes:

Landed at 3 minutes to 11.

the Electra could maintain >250 kts until pretty close to the runway, whereas the 727 had to start slowing down way out

Used to have some fun racing the 727's into Alice in a Conquest. Alice tower was once queried as to why the Conquest was getting priority from 30 miles one day.
Rosco in the tower replied " 'cause he can maintain 250kts to 3 miles and then get off at the first taxiway. You can't."

"Fair enough" came the reply.

[Jack Ranga]

You lucky bastards :cool: look at it now :ugh:

Best approach I ever saw from the Kye rissole was a United 747, visual left base onto R07, geesus, the earth moved. Most impressive bit of flying I've seen :ok:

[the_rookie]

Used to have some fun racing the 727's into Alice in a Conquest. Alice tower was once queried as to why the Conquest was getting priority from 30 miles one day.
Rosco in the tower replied " 'cause he can maintain 250kts to 3 miles and then get off at the first taxiway. You can't."

"Fair enough" came the reply.

Haha! Thats great stuff

[Roj approved]

these days i'm just happy to get there in under 2hrs:ugh:

[john_tullamarine]

yet the redoubtable Vince

And, on one occasion when that track was beset by thunderies in all directions .. Vince's was the only aeroplane to maintain sked for the day ... he just went under the cells ... back and forth ... while all and sundry were diverting however many thousands of miles left and right to get around the bumps ...