ASA on the hunt in euro control

[mikk_13]

Apparently ASA have been trying to make some kind deal to source controllers from eurocontrol on an exchange. My info was that no one in eurocontrol had any interest in the honour. More work for not much more pay.

I thought they had full staff

[T28D]

They have full staff numbers, administrators, personnel managers, accountants, but lack licensed ATC.


So great control of the budget, just can't control or manage airspace !!!!!!!

[Jack Ranga]

And what are we going to exchange?? We want controllers and we are going to give them?? Perhaps 800 admin staff that we've gained over 2 years??

[Mud Skipper]

The issue isn't,

We want controllers and we are going to give them??

But rather "We want our controllers back"
Conditions must be much better everywhere else than Oz judged by the number of Aussie voices you here in Euro airspace, not to mention half of Asia.
Love it talking to an Aussie on Rhein Radar or Dubai Control even.:)

Ain't the free market a bitch when you train people and they leave when better conditions are offered elsewhere.

[Jack Ranga]

Mud, they may want their controllers back but there's a sticky little issue called 'the black list' ;)

[Mud Skipper]

Jack R, sorry guess I'm not that familiar with the internal politics of a 'Black List', though it would not surprise me that some management would cut of their nose to spite their face over people having enjoyed several years OS and now wanting to come home.

[Nautilus Blue]

Or maybe our new CEO and particularly GM(ATC) know that you should start to recruit staff before you actually need them. "Fully staffed = stop recruiting" was what got us into a mess in the first place.

If it actually was an exchange program I think that would be a very good thing. Different ideas/perspectives/techniques etc. Plus I wouldn't mind a few years in Europe, personally and professionally. Also on days off one could tour Europe on ones flying pig.

[ferris]

Mud skipper, a lot of us left not just because of the better T&Cs on offer. A lot left just to escape what would've been THE worst employer going.

Has anything changed? I've been gone too long to know....but would be interested to hear!

from atop the BLACKLIST!

[Howabout]

Hi Esq. Some interesting observations on the problems. Can't say I disagree, in general, but I am a little puzzled by your implication in respect of No 3. Are you suggesting that AsA defer poaching 'inexperienced controllers' until they mature a bit more and then pinch them?

The fundamental problem, IMHO - and this goes back over 15 years, is that AsA has not recruited enough ab-initios to meet the projected need and trained them from within its own resources. Instead, to save on the training dollars, part of its strategy has been poaching RAAF controllers to shore up the shortfalls.

I remember being told by one of your more capable middle managers in a frank exchange back in 2001, that 'upper management isn't listening.' He told me that he'd mapped the AsA controller-workforce demographic, that there was a blatant 'black-hole' that stood out like FDBs coming in 2006, plus or minus, due pending retirements, and that if AsA didn't start recruiting and training for the future now (2001) then it'd be in DS. He told me that he had briefed the info to his 'betters' and had been ignored. According to him, they did not want to listen - training to meet the projected (factual) shortfall didn't meet the desired outcome on the balance sheet. He was incredibly frustrated - and could not understand why something that was CDF to him was sidelined by those he regarded as a bunch of bean-counters.

As regards your comment: controllers who are challenged by commercial traffic levels try sitting in the APP chair in DAR during a major ADEX, where there's no secondary airport to handle the pesky bug-smashers, RPT and fighters are all inbound, and the majority of the traffic isn't doing a predictable and uniform 250kts on descent - two-mile a minute to seven is standard. No desire for a stoush on this one - but it ain't 'kiddy-land' Mate.

BTW, and I've been out of it for a while, who's the new GM?

[ferris]

Would anyone care to comment on what it's like inside AsA these days? Has anything changed? I would especially like to hear from anyone who has recently returned after a stint overseas. I guess everyone knows the sorts of things I'm talking about:
Harassment for OT
Availability of leave
Management/organisational malice
Professional development opportunity (or lack thereof)
etc. etc.

[Nautilus Blue]

BTW, and I've been out of it for a while, who's the new GM?

Greg Hood (ex RAAF?)

Harassment for OT - never has any, but we had good ALM's in our aisle, and I've recently heard people complain about missing out on OT, so it can't be that bad. Leave availability seems about the same, malice and toxicity way down. The last CA was one of the most pain free I've seen since that were introduced. Someone else will have to comment on professional development because I'm to lazy/apathetic/disengaged/realistic (delete as appropriate) to chase it.

Thats just my perspective, others will vary, but I think it's a much better place to be post TFN.

[le Pingouin]

Hoody is ex-RAAF but it's been over 20 years since he wore blue.

[Nautilus Blue]

Hoody is ex-RAAF but it's been over 20 years since he wore blue.

So unless he is much older than he looks he must have been a RAAF "inexperienced controller" when ASA "poached" him. If having people like Mr Hood in charge is what happens when we get ex RAAFies in the job then I say get more ex RAAFies.

[Howabout]

Thanks NB. Hoody was one of the best controllers I ever worked with. He has total cred as an operator who's been there and done that. He was not, in any way, 'inexperienced' when we lost him.

Only my personal opinion, but your organization hasn't had someone in the top ATC job (forget the bean-counters above) with real cred for years. Please don't take offense, but all I saw in my final years was a bunch of enroute controllers that weren't even good enough to do that job and got management positions in the 'Superior City Zone.' Most of them weren't worth feeding when it came to having an understanding of what the coalface was coping with. A few years controlling aircraft in the cruise and stuff-all else. What happened to Azervicestan BTW?

Hoody should be a breath of the fresh as regards empathy with the workforce. But he also ain't a bunny!

[Paragraph377]

Howabout, very true about Hoody, he ain't no slouch. Very smart man and well respected in Melbourne where he did a lot of good work. Nice guy and easy to get along with but don't let the niceties fool you - burn him and you will become toast, and fair enough I say!
He was making inroads in CASA, but he left when he saw the writing on CASA's wall. He initially applied for the CEO role at ASA after that nupty Russell left, but the Government wanted more of a bureaucrat at the helm, hence Staib's appointment. Nonetheless, the Hooded one has already garnished a measure of respect plus he is ticking all the boxes. That combined with a big bucket of project money they currently have should at least ensure some good systems and infrastructure introduced. But there is still a need for more frontline controllers. If the newish senior management group could throw the 'little black book' in bin they could actually ramp up numbers pretty quickly as there are some good quality Aussie controllers who would give two testicles to come back home and work in Aus. Time for bygones to be bygones I reckon.

[Howabout]

Hi Para. I never saw any direct evidence of the 'black book,' but heard enough about it to believe that there was some substance there: some weird form of payback if someone wanted to explore other horizons and then return.

Most of those guys were/are incredibly competent and experienced controllers - I know a few. I remain askance that the company would eschew taking these guys back with their overseas experience. Surely, a competent organization would grab them with both hands.

'Let bygones be bygones' is a generous thought by you. However, rank stupidity and arrogance come to mind in this old brain.

[Paragraph377]

Some of the changes at the top of the organisation is a good start. They need to filter some changes down through the mid level management group as the next priority. As for the 'black book' it does exist but you will never see it though :=
But time will tell if the book has been discarded, and when you see some old faces return to the screens you will know that ASA has really changed for the better. Hoody has worked the line so hopefully his knowledge, as well as CEO support will equate to an increase in funding for frontline manpower including contingency, succession and training requirements over the next year or two.

[esquire2012]

Azervicestan: it still exists!

Azervicestan and The Superior City Zone (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Azervicestan/208659242576)

Maybe the original author has moved overseas with the past exodus?

[ferris]

I would've thought there would be more local interest in people going to approach or tower, rather than the current use of 457 visas to fill those spots?

[Howabout]

Thanks esq, but there has been a big gap in Txs from Azervicestan. Although I was selected in the ballot to be allowed to bid for a Petrov Teflonski triple-breasted shiny-suit, there was no follow-up from the local Chairman Two Tractor and Workwear Barn. Likewise, I never received my two complimentary potatoes and (high quality) tin medal. I was not too worried about the medal, but the family was devastated after I had told them over the usual turnip dinner that potatoes were inbound.

But, from a personal perspective, I was so looking forward to the Petrov Teflonski. I had rehearsed throwing down the acronyms, promoting SDE and the CON, as well as using terms like 'drill down.' I thought that I was middle-management material. I had all the quals, except for the purple shiny-suit.

And as for the Great Leader Superior Peoples Wagon (Sport), I won't even go there. The bids closed before I was even aware that bids were open.

I think I need a coffee-flavoured beverage (that may, or may not, contain coffee) from the nearest AzCafe.

What happened to one of the heroes of the revolution - that incredible patriot that could talk without knowing anything? He was a rare talent, being so confident as a true revolutionary. Ardud al Said it-Maself?? I heard that he may be selling used Peoples Wagons (Sport), but that was just a rumour.