Average prices of deicing fluid

[donPablo]

As per title, where was your highest and lowest you ever paid, what do you think is average.

Where are to highest in europe drive-up fees

[falconeasydriver]

Seriously? If you have to worry about the price of de-icing fluid, perhaps you shouldn't be going flying.
Or am I being a bit unfair?

[donPablo]

Ehhh... can't it just be out of curiosity ???

I always apreciate those quick judgements though... :} , one of the fav parts of this forum

[Jet Jockey A4]

And most of the time they are billed without us knowing how much it cost for a service.

Do you want a price per litre for type 1, 2 or 4 which will vary a lot depending on where you are on the planet or a general cost to de ice and anti ice an aircraft.

Aircraft type/size will make a big difference in the cost as will how badly the aircraft was prior to de icing and anti icing.

I remember in the mid 90s going into JFK in just awful weather with a lot of freezing rain coming down that day. We waited for our passengers to come off a Concord flight from Europe at the GAT ramp and the aircraft got rained on (FZ RN) for about an hour and just looked like a Pop Sicle… Well I remember it costing us over $5000 USD back in those days to get our Hawker de iced and anti iced for our flight home.

Today, it's not uncommon for a Global Express type aircraft to cost $10,000 to de ice/anti ice when in bad weather.

[Globally Challenged]

I think that as far as deicing is concerned, our boss appreciates that we take an interest in the costs beforehand and we generally try to find out the cost (ideally hourly) for a heated hangar from the FBO to compare against the cost of the fluid.

Anti-ice is obviously a different matter as it is not optional.

[Jet Jockey A4]

And even anti ice them with type 4 in the hangar when possible prior to pulling them out.

We have a "hangar departure procedure" and wait for all passengers to be onboard prior to starting the anti ice (type 4) application in the hangar.

All the checks are done with a GPU but it is a lot easier with the 604, the GEX is more of a pita when we do this procedure.

For winter ops in general, the GEX gets hangar when the overnight temperature is expected to be colder than -5C. If not available then we will ferry the aircraft home if feasible (short flights) or we bring one of our engineers to keep the APU running for a while. Once it is decided to shut down the APU and depending on the OAT, usually 6 0r 8 hours later the APU will be restarted and the aircraft warmed up again.

I remember one year the aircraft was in Beijing during a cold spell (-30C and colder) and we were lucky to get a hangar but at a cost of close to $1000 USD an hour... It was an expensive trip!

[silverknapper]

Falcon

That's an elitist attitude you've got yourself there. Some of us like to know what things cost. I'm glad you don't fly an airplane I own.

Don

In Europe what I've seen is generally around €100 call out and €4-5 per litre.

If it's done through a planning company this no doubt rises.

That was two years ago so times may have changed.

[ksjc]

We save a lot of $$ by sweeping the GLEX wings and fuse first. Brooms and squeegees. 2 guys can generally get it done in and hour. Takes a while but greatly reduces de-ice fluid needed to finish the job.

[FrankR]

I used to use brooms to remove snow. I thought I was the good company man doing so.

Then, one day in Aspen, I was using a snow broom, and noticed a VG on the ground... We don't broom any more!

It doesn't seem to save us much money either.


FR

[Deep and fast]

ESSA today, 400 euro flat fee, 50 euro certificate and type 1, 3 euro a litre and type 4, 4 euro a litre

Wanted 1800 euro for the hanger and it was snowing when we left so would have still needed anti.

At the hold 35 mins as they needed to get the brooms out again.

Aviation just ain't cheep.

D and F

[clivewatson]

If your airplane had been designed right in the first place, the wing wouldn't need VG's!

[falconeasydriver]

Falcon

That's an elitist attitude you've got yourself there. Some of us like to know what things cost. I'm glad you don't fly an airplane I own.

Don

Far from it silver, my attitude is if you need it, and can't afford it, you shouldn't be going flying in the first place.
Fine if your boss decides to choose his destinations based on cost, I would prefer a boss who goes where they need so that they can generate more revenue..
Yes be conscious of costs (who isn't) but basing operationally significant decisions on the cost of De-icing fluid? seriously? that's one area where to me the cost is largely irrelevant, if that's elitist then so be it.

[His dudeness]

my attitude is if you need it, and can't afford it, you shouldn't be going flying in the first place.

My attitude is, my company wants me to be as safe as possible and as effective as possible. (hangar vs. deice as others mentioned)

BTW, nobody ever said (wrote) they can´t afford it.

[falconeasydriver]

Dudeness

BTW, nobody ever said (wrote) they can´t afford it.

I've made the inference purely to illustrate a point, you and I both know that when the boss (company) start to penny pinch in certain area's the writing is on the wall.
Finding the places that offer cheaper de-icing is only useful if you need it when you go there...its a pointless exercise, a bit like an operator I know who hangered their jet to avoid de-icing costs at airfield B as it was 3 times the price at airfield A, only problem was, they ended up paying for de-ice/anti-ice twice at B due to operating in and out, and once at A, so the entire exercise ended up costing them 4 times (including hangerage) as much as putting the covers on and letting the jet ice up at airfield B.
Stupid as stupid does...said Forest.

[Tony Mabelis]

A VG lying on the ground becomes an MEL problem...............A member of the flight crew lying on the ground, with a broken arm, leg or head, becomes a possible show stopper.
Very dangerous practice getting onto wet or frozen wings, especially if the paint has been treated with a "protective" coating.
Then there is the problem of clearing the top of the fuselage and horizontal stabilizer without suitable steps, just pay the money and get the job done right!
Tony

[con-pilot]

The most I ever paid was $25,000.00, but that was on a 727 after an major ice storm, not snow. They had to refill the de-icing truck twice and it took forever.

The aircraft was basically an ice cube with about two to three inches of ice all over the exposed surfaces.

The thing that made me upset, was that it was a fluke ice storm and that afternoon the temperature was forcast to be 60f and a low that night still above freezing. I called ops and told them if we spent that day and that night, there would be no ice problem. Therefore we'd save that money.

Nope, we just had to go. But what the hell, the money was free, US tax dollars. So by the time it was de-iced and we could fly the schedule, we ended up with a 16 hour crew duty day.

Hell, the trip to the airport in the hotel van that morning took two hours, normally a 20 minute drive.

Looking back, I should have call ops that morning from the hotel and told them that due to the ice storm we couldn't get to the airport. Oh well, if I was that smart, I would have bought Apple Computer stock when it was first issued. :p

[donPablo]

Instead of rising the arguments about whether someone chooses places to go basing on the deicing fluid price I wanted to rise a question about differences in prices for my sales department... We put it on customer and they need some estimates for brokers. Of course we could check the previous year ones but I guessed we could discuss it here as experienced pilots. Same thing is about the airports - UUWW expensive, another one cheap...

To make it clear we never save on that, nor we pay for that, customers do and they also apreciate the safety of the whole thing.

[FrankR]

Let it be a lesson to you DonPablo, you can start a discussion on PPrune, but you can never have the last word.

This has been a good discussion, so far...

FR

[ksjc]

De-iced/anti-iced the GLEX last night in KPHL. Type I then Type IV. $2600.

[Tu.114]

As DonPablo seems to come from the administrative side of things, I think his interest is understandable and plausible. But for the flying crew, the costs of deicing should be of secondary interest at best. If a treatment is needed, it is needed or the flight does not depart. The manufacturer and secondarily also the company have determined how they want their aircraft surfaces to look before departure, so the decision is to be made based on their state and not on costs.

One caveat applies though: Of course, there are style points to be won for selecting an appropriate mixture and procedure. Washing off a completely snowed-in aircraft with 100% type four is certainly not the preferrable method.

So there is no point in telling the aircrew how much exactly a litre of glycol costs at an individual airfield. If deicing is needed, it is needed at the airfield one is currently at and one would certainly not consider carrying the ice along to the next airport of call where its removal may be a bit cheaper, thereby differentiating deicing from fuelling. Maybe this question would find more answers to DonPablos liking in the Ground Handling subforum?

[Jet Jockey A4]

Last night we needed to have our wings and tail de-iced in Torino due to frost.

The handler arranged for the truck to meet us at our stand. We requested Type I with a 50/50 mix. A total of 220 litres was applied at €4.50/litre.

They billed us €990 for the Type I fluid but then charged us an extra €450 for the de-icing truck!

So the grand total for our de-icing was €1440 for 220 litres or €6.55/litre.

I like the way they charge us for the truck separately which artificially keeps the cost of the de-icing fluid per litre down in price.

[Tray Surfer]

You should have just asked for a kettle, a broom with a long handle and a bucket, along with the de-icing fluid, and done it yourself… :) :) :)

[Jet Jockey A4]

Yes my thoughts exactly...:ugh:

Leaving for EGGW in 30 minutes... If I need de-icing on our departure on Saturday I'll be able to report on Luton's pricing.

[His dudeness]

THAT reminds me of a mx shop (and a very well respected one) that started to charge for opening their hangar doors. I asked them to work outside then, which solved the problem (they hid the charge someplace else, undoubtably...)

Sorry for OT.

[Tray Surfer]

ROFL… Brilliant.

I think I read somewhere, maybe in a thread when I was asking about catering… In places, a 5kg bag of wet ice is €100 or something silly like that… :) In this thread, be cheaper to put on a pair of gloves and go chip it off the wing…