Op Fabulous / QRA / Battle Flight 1950s - 1960s

[BingoBob]

I have been doing some reading around the above subject and I would love to hear any ideas about what aircrew did during the quiet moments between scrambles. I am particularly interested in the time from say July 1950 to the arrival of Q Sheds.

In OP Fab or 2TAF when aircraft were said to be at 'two minute cockpit readiness' were pilots actually in the cockpit or perhaps seated close by? I'm imagining (quite probably unrealistically) sprawled out on deckchairs or the grass beside the ORP!

Without activity as such, how long do you think would they each be required be at cockpit readiness?

For later periods were there pilots' crew rooms or similar, maybe caravans by the ORPs?

No source seems to provide a definitive answer!

Interested to hear your thoughts...

BB

[BingoBob]

Just realised this is probably in the wrong part of the forum.

:O

Sorry.

[Courtney Mil]

Bob,

Your post is in exactly the right area, just wait for replies. I can't offer anything for the period you're asking about, I'M FAR TOO YOUNG!!!

But you will get some interesting answers, I'm sure. And they will stretch beyond the 50s/60s for sure. This could be good. Depending on how honest we can all be.

[Fixed Cross]

Hi BB-I'll start the ball rolling if I can dredge fading memory for basic experience at the game. I joined the Javelin force in 58 and served on 85 Sqn until 61 as a Nav/Rad (actually an NCO Radio Observer but we did the same job in the back seat).

I seem to recall "Fabulous" was also termed "Halyard" at times but cannot remember if there was any specific difference.

We held cockpit readiness at 2 mins reaction through the night period with crews rotating at 90 miinutes intervals. The readiness aircraft were position on the ORP at the end of the duty runway plugged into the "telebrief"- a direct connection to the GCI unit (Bawdsey in our case) through which, if required, the scramble order was passed. The crew had "cocked" the aircraft for instant start up and could easily meet a scramble to lift off in 2 minutes. A scramble order was top priority whatever else was happening and ATC/Ops also received the order from the GCI station.

On liftoff we tuned onto the directed vector and climbed flatout for the required altitude contacting our control agency on the way. The rest was standard interception/recognition procedure.

After 61 I transitioned to the front seat and the low level attack/interdiction/recce game and only returned to air defence in the 80s with the Chivenor Hawks playing the mixed fighter force concept but the basics were still the same.

Hopefully former colleagues will have better memories (more grey cells around) and can add further to the story.

Happy days.

[Lightning Mate]

I can only offer stuff after the arrival of Q sheds (late 60s).

[Dominator2]

Bob,

I only have experience of 2ATAF Battle Flight in the 70s. We held a 5 minute state 24/7 in the Phantom. We held the 5 minutes out of the cockpit, sitting in a crew-room near the aircraft, which was challenging during a night scramble. Our limiting factor was the INAS align that took 100 seconds. Our highest state was Cockpit Ready which would equate to 2mins. We were allowed to maintain in the cockpit for up to 4 hours at a time. Our normal duty time for Battle Flight was 24 hours, after which you were supposed to get 24 hours off.
There was a very strong directive from "on high" that we were to make our scramble times at all cost. This led to some bizarre stories, some of which will hopefully be told on this forum.

[BingoBob]

Fantastic thanks chaps!

Fixed Cross, what would you be doing during the 90 minutes you were held in the aircraft at night? Dozing? It must have been quite tedious after a while! Do you remember how many crews were in the rotation per aircraft? I mean how often would you have to complete these hour and half stints? Did you go out to Germany during one of 85s temporary deployments? Do you recall if there were any differences to the stand-by procedure?

Sorry just realized that is a list of questions .... its a fascinating, rarely touched subject.

Lightning Mate - Happy to hear your stories! What period did your service cover?

Thanks Dominator, I have a bit of a soft-spot for the Phantom, quite the beast. I seen some footage of Battle Flight F4 launches. Very impressive! When all else is ready to go and the INAS align is chugging away must have been frustrating. I have heard elsewhere that the American Zulu alert sometimes took off before it had fully aligned in order to reach readiness time.


BB

[Lightning Mate]

What period did your service cover?

1968 to 1973 - Lightnings.

[27mm]

Battle Flight scrambles in the F4 were always hectic. On one night launch the jet wallowed airborne; sorted that when I remembered to turn the Stab Augs on! :O

[1.3VStall]

The Lightning FMk2As at Guetersloh would regularly be airborne in under 3 minutes from a scramble call - unlike the Phantom there was no INAS to align.

[BEagle]

....airborne in under 3 minutes....

Shouldn't that be airborne for under 3 minutes?

:p

[newt]

Now, now Beagle.It is the season of goodwill:E

[Free Vortex]

The Phantom FGR2 INAS (QRA) fast align was 105 secs I recall. As long as the 28v DC power supply was plugged in this kept the IN platform heaters on (and powered up the intercom/telebrief?). You first had to get AC online though, I think, following the first engine start/genny online. You then got the IN into fast align and waited for the 'align' light to stop flashing (and go out) before taxying. Considering that this was technology that came from the TSR2 era Ferranti did a good job at coming up with a way to 'short-cut' the align. It relied on doing a very good 'normal' align to get the IN platform alignment set, and then setting this into a stored heading mode.

I got pretty good at 'cocking' Battle Flight jets in RAFG, especially the 'extra' jets for weekends.

[BOAC]

airborne in under 3 minutes from a scramble call - a minute late again................:D

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Not much had changed when the Tornado F3 came in.
"Beep"
Remember that the GPU only kept the IN platforms warm, not the aircrew.
"Beep"
Sitting out on the pan for 4 hours at 0-dark-hundred on a winter's night was bloody cold.
"Beep"
If you put the canopy down, it just became misty and still as cold.
"Beep"

After 3 hours on one exercise
Nav "137!"
Me " 137 what?"
Nav "137 crosshead screws in the back cockpit. (pause) I'm going to count the slotheads now!"

"Beep"

[1.3VStall]

BOAC,

I said "under 3 minutes" - I could have added "often in under 2 minutes"! The Lightning would always beat that awful triumph of thrust over aerodynamics: the Phantom!;)

[lightningmate]

Once total boredom set-in, many a Lightning guy would start to dismantle bits of the cockpit or, more usefully, go around and tighten up all the loose securing devices, attempt to bring dead P-Lamps back to life etc.

There were several tales of people being embarrassed with bits of the aircraft all over the place when out of the blue the Telebrief requested them to get airborne http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wibble.gif

Of course, faced with such little problems, both engines always started first time so off one had to go and sort things out somewhere around FL360. For non-Lightning readers, it often required witchcraft to get the Lightning AVPIN engine starting system to fire up.

lm

[CharlieJuliet]

Lightnings Binbrook 66 to 68 mostly holding southern Q. At first we held Q from the hangar, and as such we were at 10 and I think 5 mins (cockpit). During a week day normal work went on round you, and on occasion pilots were swopped to get the daily task - as we flew 0830 (woe betide the first pair if the burners didn't light as the boss sat down to met brief) till late pilots could easily get to 4 trips and so need 'resting' on Q. At weekends it was quieter as in those days weekend flying did not happen. At one stage us bachelors used to go up to the hangar to race Scaletrix cars round the crewroom and have a coffee with the Q team. For the aircrew it usually meant 24 hours sitting around in flying kit - goon suits in winter. The squadron used to fly all the time in pressure jerkins and so we had to learn to don this garment quickly if needed. Our MRS was Patrington and, as alluded to above, the telebrief used to beep all the time in the ops room. Usually the alert came unannounced over telebrief: 'Binbrook alert 1 Lightning' - more rarely via land line. This led to a rush to the aircraft on the line, hitting a hooter to alert the groundcrew enroute. Once strapped in a check in was made and scramble instructions issued as necessary. As this was all going on the duty ATC watch were also alerted if this was happening out of normal hours. Usually we got airborne and headed east. Sleeping was in a small room in the hangar and I think food was from the mess - so usually not hot! At the time our aircraft were brand new (they were new when I arrived, but without hooks and we replaced them with more new hooked ones half way through my tour) and so usually there was a spare - a request for a scramble to offset boredom was normally accommodated. To sleep or not was always a dilemma. I slept. but a scamble at 0245 showed me how difficult it was to go from sleep to airborne in 10 minutes fortunately adrenalin helped. Mid tour we moved to the Q shed. Will post more later if interested

[Free Vortex]

The 5 mins from hooter to airborne Battle Flight Wildenrath Phantom FGR2 requirement could be somewhat of a 'tester' at night. Either sleep fully clothed with all flying clothing and boots on or leave boots in the ac! There was more than one tale of people not waking up fully until in the climb.

[newt]

Just one word "gloves"

[BingoBob]

Ha ha, I can imagine picking apart the screws in the cockpit out of boredom.

Not quite the same thing but I was once left alone for a very short time as a nipper and apparently I disassembled a VCR player (new fangled at the time) to see how it worked. The olds weren't too happy they had only bought it a few days earlier. I'd hope you guys knew how to put yours back together.

Fantastic stories, keep 'em coming please.

Oh one other question: How long were aircrew actually on Q for before returning to normal duties?

BB

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

As stated; 24 on, minimum of 24 off before you could do Q again, though you might be flying non-Q that day.

[BingoBob]

Thanks Fox3WMB!

[Firestreak]

In the very early 70s, I was launched from Battle Flight @ 04:00. Airborne in 2 mins 46 secs (every launch was timed), it was a really black night and I went into cloud at 500ft, out of the top at FL 350. Never in my life have I been so disorientated, the Lightning climbed quite quickly in burner and from being asleep to that height in around a total of 5 mins was interesting to say the least. Good fun though.

[BOAC]

2 minute cockpit readiness was 'easy', if boring and sometimes cold. The real challenge was the 'standard' 10 minutes, in a bed at night, kitted with bunny suit, g-suit and goon suit. It was often said that we mostly ran on 'auto' in the scramble and generally woke up at about 10,000' on the way up. Of course, those who failed to lock their canopies before rolling woke up a little earlier.:)

One also became fairly proficient at what was known as an 'op crap' when required:)

[Fixed Cross]

Bob,

In reply to your questions at post 7:

With two in the crew 90 minutes at cockpit readiness was rarely boring. Various competitive games were devised (some of which I hesitate to outline here), dozing was common and general discussion on a variety of topics frequent.

When the Sqn was tasked for standby whichever flight was on nights met the commitment (Javelin Sqns operated one flight on days-one on nights for routine training. The flights swopped over each week). With up to 10 crews per flight no more than two sessions of cockpit readiness was necessary per night. The remainder of the period was spent at 10/30 mins readiness in the crewroom (with usual crewroom activities).

In the Autumn of 61 my situation changed dramatically. My pilot was posted to the transport force as he wished to prepare for BOAC/BEA etc. I had just received the welcome news of selection for pilot training and was eager to depart ASAP. With only 24 hours notice 85 was detached to 2ATAF (Laarbruch) when the Berlin wall was erected and the upper level thinking anticipated another possible Berlin airlift. I was now a gash/nav only filling in when illness/leave left an empty back seat. Our home base (West Raynham) received my posting to South Cerny but failed to notify the detachment at Laarbruch. Hence I departed in something of a minor flap when a WTF signal arrived demanding my presence elsewhere. Thus I never held a reaction state during my final weeks on the Sqn at Laarbruch.

I left with the biggest grin north of the Channel.

[Lightning Mate]

It was often said that we mostly ran on 'auto' in the scramble and generally
woke up at about 10,000' on the way up.

It was usually about 30,000' for me !

.....the Lightning climbed quite quickly in burner...

Now there's an understatement.

Would love to see a civvy puke handle it. :E

[Free Vortex]

Gloves left on the canopy rail Newt??

(or worse still down the intakes of an F-4, like all sorts of things down there like maps etc................)

When the hooter went at Wildenrath Battle Flight the HAS doors would start to slowly open automatically. If you were quick you would sprint through the opening gap to the ac. One first tourist was so quick he caught his jacket straps on the large HAS door lock arms, and as a result this pivoted his head into the door edge, which gave him a nasty cut. No snags, bonedome on and scramble. Five mins later, when established in the climb out to the east, the blood from the cut started dripping off his forehead...........

[newt]

Saved time if you left them off and put them on in the climb!:ok:

[Dominator2]

At Wattisham the taxiway from the Q Shed to the runway entered the runway with only 6000 ft of runway remaining. We had certain headwind requirements to takeoff in QRA fit without a backtrack. As a 1st tourist I thought that it would be a good idea to light the burners early. The access has about 60 degree turn to line-up. I lit the burners as I started the turn (since they took 3-5 secs to light). Imagine my surprise as 32,000 of thrust pushed my 25 tonne ac towards the grass. Thank god for MacD and the strength of the undercarriage. There is little doubt that in most other ac I would have broken the gear or gone into the grass in spectacular fashion.

[Free Vortex]

On a scramble take-off one wintry day at Leuchars with slushy ice underfoot (& slippy piano keys!) turning onto Runway 27 off the Northern taxiway we needed opposite nose-wheel steer to catch the slide...............

Good job that it was a nice wide runway..........

[John Farley]

or 2TAF when aircraft were said to be at 'two minute cockpit readiness' were pilots actually in the cockpit

In 1958 to 1960 at Jever on Hunter 6 yes.

[Akrotiri bad boy]

My memories of groundcrew stints on Battle Flight include:

Two aircrew on a 24hr rota, whilst the three groundcrew did 24hrs on 24hrs off over a two week period
Separate sleeping quarters, communal kitchen/dining area
Hotlock meals, apart from lashings of eggs and bacon for fry ups
Left over VHS films from the SSVC rental shop
Backdated copies of "Sixth Sense"
Big sloppy kisses from the WO's missus on Christmas Day

Every time we launched, even at night, we beat the Soesterburg F15's into a cocked hat.

[Dominator2]

The most relaxed QRA that I saw was in Gib on the Hunters. 5 minutes was down at the Squadron while 10 minutes could be held from the Mess. Most evenings Q1 stood on the mess patio with a G+T in hand. As soon as the evening BEA Trident landed safely Q1 was stood down for the evening.

[BEagle]

3 of the 4 QRA aircrew were quietly watching yet another VHS in the Wattisham Q-shed one evening in the early '80s when it was the Crows' turn to sit Southern Q; the 4th had gone to his pit and the dividing curtains were drawn to keep the noise / light from the rest area from disturbing him.

Their peace was rudely shattered as through the curtains there suddenly crashed their colleague wrestling frantically with his errant goon suit. They watched in polite surprise thinking "He's really gone bloody nuts this time!" until the flailing rubber-suited creature decided to calm down....

It was 'Thrombo' - also known as 'AWF'. He was attempting to time how long it took him to don his goon suit if scrambled in the dead of night - but without the urgency and klaxons, sounds of running groundcrew and general mayhem, the moment lacked the necessary adrenalin for success. But it did give the rest of the Q crews a good laugh!

At least we would take it in turns to stand down to the OM in pairs for dinner, taking the world's most useless piece of comms kit, the 2-handed walkie-talkie 'Storno' radio and the station's most clapped-out L.androver. There was a special phone in the OM which was unlisted and was supposed to be used only to call us back to the Q-shed if the RS had been increased. One night we were happily scoffing when it rang - I* charged out to coax the L.androver into life whilst my colleague answered the phone.....

False alarm - it seems one of the mess stewards had given the number of the phone to all his 'dial-a-mate' chums for their private evening calls!

*Rule No.1 - Never let the navigator drive!

[Gerry Mobbs]

I was trained as an ATC Ops Clerk for my National Service(1957-1958).My first posting was to Wattisham and during the summer of 57 Wattisham closed for runway extension for the Lightening's arrival.I was then posted to Waterbeach and at both airfields we were operating "Fabulous".We were on 24/7 standby and each Thursday squadrons arrived to take their turn.It was pretty hectic with day and night squadrons changing over.From memory we had visits from squadrons from places such as Coltishall,Church Fenton,Middleton St George,Watton,West Raynham,Turnhouse and Horsham St Faith.In ATC we worked a shift pattern of five days on and three off,no extra duties.Hope this adds a bit more information to the discussion.

[Pontius Navigator]

One of our plotter's , 'Bertie' Wooster (IIRC), transitioned from the Javelin as that force ran down to the Vulcan as a plotter. We were in awe of this hugely experienced night fighter nav rad with a massive 1,700 hours, some 4 times what we sprogs had at the time.

'Wow, night fighters, how many hours night do you have?'

We were most disappointed when we found he had less than 150 hours night :)

PS

One story I heard concerned the Victor Training Flight. Not the VTF of Tankertrashenav's time but of the early Mk 1 sorties in the late 50s. The QRA force in Germany was used to delouse the Victor as it exited the ADIZ. I believe the fighters were not pre-warned but were scrambled and vectored east as the Victor entered the FRG.

[big v]

Since some of the posts have erred beyond the thread title dates, I'll add one from Coningsby c1983. We held 10 mins from two rooms at the end of the sqn hangar accommodation, with the jets parked outside on the pan. It was a bit of a nightmare because the sqn wheels could just stroll in and collar you for jobs. IIRC the front room was the day room with tv, tables etc, and the back room was the bedroom with 4 beds. The DFC's bed had a phone, a squawk box and a nice red button that set off the scramble alarm.

Anyway, one night we had repaired to our beds with our kit carefully laid out on the floor ans all was quiet except for the confidence tone on the squawk box and the racket from the duty snorer. At some ungodly hour the scamble alarm sounded and 3 of us leapt out of bed and wriggled rapidly into our flying kit while the fourth person, the DFC, was sat up in bed looking guilty. Seems he had yawned and stretched out his arms and accidentally........ Thanks Zip(at least I think he was the culprit)!

Regards,

Vernon

[BEagle]

I recall going to CGY to sit QRA for 29(F) over the Summer Ball night, following something the boss had agreed. The accommodation was much as you describe, Vern and nothing like a 'proper' Q-shed. It was a long way to 'run' to reach the jets if you were scrambled, we all thought.

The nice chaps from 29 strolled over during the evening, having clearly been enjoying the Ball. But did they bring us any tasty morsels or thank you bottles to take back to Wattisham? Err, no - which didn't go down well with my colleagues. Mind you, they had an 'interesting' selection of VHS tapes - including 'Naughty Little Girls'. Who, we found, were very 'naughty' indeed - and far from 'little'...:ooh:

Anyway, all was quiet on the Russian Front that night, so we handed back the commitment the following lunchtime, then had a 2:30 hour trip home in the usual MT rattletrap. A day off on Monday? YGBSM as they say.

[deltahot]

Just copied most of this from my earlier response to BingoBob's first post under "Aviation History and Nostalgia". This is from an earlier, and probably much less exciting/interesting, era of FAB, than recent posts.

I was on a day fighter Meteor squadron, at Waterbeach in Cambridgeshire, '51/'53 ish.

I do remember once getting airborne rapidly from the ORP, (not with the trolley acc still attached, although I did see one dragged a few yards before the lead pulled out) but with the fire warning light covers which I had been carefully unscrewing to relieve the tedium hastily stuffed into a pocket. I hadn't got as far as fiddling with the bulbs though. "Fab" for us day fighters was strictly dawn to dusk only, and I think we were in the habit of getting airborne for the dusk fab - can't remember about the dawn period - probably not because the aircraft would just stay on the ORP for the next shift. I guess an hour, maybe more, would have been about tops at immediate cockpit readiness - the ejector seats weren't built for comfort.

Hey, we were still flying those early jets in leather helmets and big old-fashioned Mae Wests. We did loll about in really old mess furniture outside tents on the airfield grass near the ORP in the summer on exercise standby, but maybe not the norm for Fab, which I think was often managed back in the crew room at a lower state of readiness, but memory is struggling a bit here.

There must be some more octogenarians out there to contribute.

Happy days ....

[26er]

34 Squadron was deployed to Nicosia for the Suez fiasco in 1956 and with 1 Squadron on alternate days we operated Battle Fights in our Hunter F 5s from dawn to dusk. The long runway, if I remember correctly, was 16/34.The ORP was at the south end of the runway at right angles and there we sat on cockpit readiness either looking along the approach to r/w 34 or facing the other way, along the runway towards to control tower. No telebrief so scramble was initiated by a Very flare from the tower with initial vectors from local. We always scrambled from 34 no matter what the wind and normally were airborne in about 90 secs. Sitting in the sunshine for an hour was very fatiguing. On one occasion I was in a vehicle waiting to cross the runway at the 16 end with three Canberras lined up ready to go, when the scramble flare fired and a pair of Hunters appeared over the rise in the runway rushing toward the Canberras. No problem but for the fact No 2 was too enthusiastic in getting his gear up so the bombers were faced with an aircraft scraping over their heads with the remains of his droptanks tumbling towards them. The Hunter's nosewheel was jammed up and the only usable fuel was in the centre tank i.e. about five minutes worth. All this excitement quite made our day !