Practicalities of hunting down that first job.

[Gearupandorrf]

Hi everyone,

So as of this week, I now find myself with a shiny new MECIR to go with my CPL, ATPL subjects and 300 hours.

Now it's time to try to secure the job.

Just a quick question based on your experiences if I may.....

Presently I'm employed in Flight Operations (Dispatch) for a major Australian Airline. A bonus of my current employment is that it provides me with:
- blocks of up to 5- 6 rostered days off at a time and;
- access to Staff Travel and associated discounts on Car Hire/ Accommodation.

This puts me in a position to keep the $ coming in from my present job, but concurrently to "hit the road" for close to a week at a time and go knocking on doors. Being able to fly everywhere will cut trip times and maximise time looking for work.

For instance, I could do close to a week in Broome and surrounds in one block, then a few weeks later do a "top end" trip for a week, and then cover north QLD on another trip. Then, I could conduct "follow up" trips every month with follow up phone calls and emails to make sure that I'm not forgotten.

In your opinions, could such a strategy prove successful? Or, is actually relocating the ONLY way to go? I'm slightly hesitant to cut myself loose from a well paying job in the industry without having a job to go to.

All thoughts and opinions welcome.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[Ixixly]

I'd say relocating really is your best bet, for a lot of these jobs they'll want someone who can start straight away and I'm presuming with your current job you'll have to give notice. Personally I would frown upon hiring someone who doesn't bother to give their current job proper notice.

If you have a current job and are living elsewhere it'll take at least a week I'd say for you to get back home, pack up your gear and get back. This of course doesn't allow a lot of time for travelling in a car if you want to take it there nor does it allow for any real notice to be given to your current employer so it might be closer to a month which could be a problem for an employer especially when there are most likely another bunch of guys and gals who have been living there and gotten to know the local crowds and are ready to go ASAP.

[Capt Fathom]

Ahh...

Join date 1999.. You are kidding! Go Away!

[Gearupandorrf]

Mate, care to clarify re: the above?
I'm taking it that being Saturday night, you're pissed??
I can't quite "fathom" your comment.

[Bounceferret]

Would have to be one hell of a pay cut going from airline admin to a entry level GA job.
Bold as hell, but I like it.
All the best.

[345789]

My food for thought...
If you get the oppurtunity of an interview with a particular company spend some time getting to know what aircraft they operate, how many of that type in the fleet, the local aerodromes that they regularly fly to etc.
Lets face it - if you have 300 hours your probably at the bottom of a pile of resume's.
You need to sell the idea of why your better than the next guy! I have given guys a go whom may have no experience but demonstrate the fight not to leave that interview without a job - but can at least hold their own knowing a bit about our company!
You can teach any monkey to fly... But you cant teach a monkey how to deal with customers when the going gets tough, weather closing in, last light, over weight etc. Being the right person with the right attitude is worth more than having the right amount of hours.. on most occasions (small GA)!
good luck!

[Gearupandorrf]

You're right mate, it will be a hell of a pay cut.
However, it's a risk I'm willing to take to get the job.

The strategy mentioned in my opening post is designed to minimise the risk of being left without ANY job.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[Gearupandorrf]

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

It's something that I'm already working on based on life/ work/ business to date.
Being a more "mature" bloke of 39, I've had experience of this in order to secure my current job- as well as building and running a small business away from work.

I'm hoping that there will be a CP at a GA outfit somewhere in this wide brown land that will find my previous sales/ customer service experience, maturity, life and industry experience worth looking at.

Also, I'm capable of valuing and following the advice of a CP who may be 10 years younger than me. With my current experience, I'm more than aware of my place in the food chain.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[Jack Ranga]

Gear, I don't know what's up fathoms date? I remember you sending me a PM, can't give you advice! (No clue!) but..........all the best mate! Great attitude, you'll be right!

[tail wheel]

I think Fathom is referring to your PPRuNe join date of June 1999. Mature age pilot graduate?

[pull-up-terrain]

If you're working at Qantas they might let you take some LWOP in the coming years at the rate we are shrinking, if you're worried about giving up your current job.

[Metro man]

Married with children and a mortgage ? That would change things a bit. I would be very hesitant to put myself on the street with a brand new CPL and no money coming in. I've been out of work and know what it's like. It's much easier to get a job when you have one already. After six months of not working people start to question what's going on. Try keeping you licence current while you have no income.:hmm:

Your idea of hitting the road once a month while you have access to staff travel and a pay cheque sounds best. Not all employers will want you to start immediately, usually some forward planning is involved. A current employee would normally have to give a months notice. Unless a walkout or immediate dismissal is involved, a company with an aircraft sitting around with no pilot to fly it has screwed up.

Have a back up plan just incase you arrive after being given a start date, only to be told the job has fallen through. It has happened before in GA :rolleyes:

[Wally Mk2]

'Geary' fortunately most of the comments here are positive, ignore any that really are angry people inside of which this industry has many!
You don't mention anything of yr personal life, not that we are asking but it does have a huge bearing on what advice can be given here or how someone perceives what abilities you have outside of that piece of paper.
Seeing as yr a mature age pilot having started out late in some ways this ambition will for work for you & then again against you, meaning there are a lot of young whipper snippers out there who will sell their soul to drive a plane & have no commitments elsewhere. Assuming you have a family behind you then obviously they are yr main consideration re what/where to go next. Can you support them with what yr planing to do, drop $$$ & the security of a large Co position, the latter more the long term issue as this mugs game of flying for a living is now very unstable.
If by chance yr footloose & fancy free you have an interested journey ahead of you & many would be envious:-)
I personally can't give you much advice much like my very good buddy 'JR' :Ewe are old buggers now you see & came up thru the ranks when the industry was flourishing but we can give you encouragement & a little insight into the pitfalls along the way.
Always have a back up plan, yr intentions maybe great but you are delving now into an industry that is far remote from yr current employers way of doing business & by that I mean yr first commercial job could be seasonal & at best a short term gig. Can you afford to be unemployed (between jobs) for periods at a time?
Obviously your keen to do this (flying) for a living having spent a few dollars along the way so far but can you handle it if a full time satisfying gig doesn't come long long term for quite a while? Can flying privately satisfy yr lust to be flying commercially? There many guys/gals in here am sure whom would liked to have flown for a living but couldn't/didn't for one reason or another but fly privately 'cause they have well paid jobs outside the aviation field, 'jabba' comes to mind he's as happy as pig in mud, well pig in a homebuilt !:ok:
I started out late commercially myself as I simply couldn't afford it any earlier (left a very secure at the time & well paid job) & have made it to the big shinny jet (which is not what it's cracked up to be anyway, well that's my take on it) but back in my early times aviation was flourishing charter wise & there where jobs aplenty of you kept at it but now it's a different game I'd say.
One of the things I found along the way was I was kinda not looked at to favorably due my hours commensurate with age, at yr age there's plenty of guys around with many 1000's of hrs, this I found was a bit of a stumbling block for me along the way but didn't stop me altogether but left me having to explain why.
The above is a bit of rambling on I guess but do what you can get out & at least try as if you don't give it a go you'll always wonder ............"what if."......& you don't want to become a bitter & twisted old man with only 'wish' memories:-)

good luck stay focused & always have a back up plan:ok:

Wmk2

[Gearupandorrf]

Cheers Metro and Wally for your input.

My current personal circumstances are Married ( to a super supportive Wife), no kids and we have our House paid off. We don't owe a cent to anyone. Aside from my job, I also have a small business that I can run remotely that also puts a few $ in our pockets. Although I would have liked to have been looking for that first job in my 20's, I like to think that I've still achieved some things that will make the next stage easier. My training has all been paid for with cash, so flying doesn't owe me a cent either.

And yes, when it comes to dealing with employers, I do have some very valid reasons as to why I am where I am at this stage. In my present position I get to deal with the guys in HR/ Recruitment a lot, and they've been able to give me some good advice in that area. FYI I don't work for QF, but elsewhere I the Qantas Group.

My problem is that I can 't live with regret of not having tried as hard as I can to build a career. I can only be at peace with myself if I either manage to build a career- or be able to look at myself in the mirror and honestly tell myself that I did everything that I could. For my age, I don't have (in my opinion) any unrealistic career expectations. I'd love to make it to the left seat at QLink one day, or even a regional jet. There's also the prospect of getting into the RHS of a Jet with the bare minimums with my current Employer- so I've been told by HR and all the Management Pilots at work.

Now that you know my personal circumstances, all constructive advice is welcome.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[mostlytossas]

Well if you can get into a flying job with your current employer why on earth would you chuck your job in and go door knocking! I would guess you won't find anything first up better than you have anyway and with the added bonus of a regular income and staying at home.
Something not quite right here? Having us all on perhaps?:rolleyes:

[Gearupandorrf]

Mate not having anyone on at all.

In order for me to get a job with my current Employer, I still need to be able to meet their mins re: hours.

I'm not going to be able to get that by staying in my current job am I?

Cheers,
Gearup.

[Jay Bo]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as yourself in age and from my experience I packed up left a supportive wife and kid back home for the Kimberley's. Spent 10 months setting up home working a job and banging on doors every 2 or so weeks and sadly nothing. Other people I know went on to Darwin and even worked for an operator doing admin work and yet didn't get a shot.
The worst part is not having the money
to keep flying up to a standard and remaining current.
I think the idea of working in your current job and travelling might save you the heartache if you don't become successful in a flying gig.
But you never know unless you give it a shot

[Gearupandorrf]

Mate sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you, but I think you can hold your head high for giving it a go.

You can PM me if you like but I'd be really interested to hear about your experiences during that time.

For instance:
- Did you happen to be there during the typical lead up to the dry season?
- How did operators view your age?
- what type of non- flying work did you get up to whilst knocking on doors?

Cheers,
Gearup.

[deadcut]

Gear up,

I was a newbie end of last year. Admittedly almost half your age and in a worse financial situation but anyway.

I moved to a town in the Kimberley's, stayed in backpackers for about 3 months (eventually moved to a share house) worked all sorts of jobs to keep myself afloat. Wet season was the hardest, most jobs scale the hours back and I was living on about 300 a week (200 of which was rent). Didn't have the best diet but always had enough for a carton of the cheapest beer on sale :} to get on it with the boys.

I religiously visited the companies every fortnight. Some times I would just pop in to say hi, other times I would drop in an "updated" resume ;) over the course of about 6 months I got to know other pilots and also other wannabes looking for work. I think that was key to getting a job. My current employer took the most recent resumes he had and asked his preset employers if they recognised any of the names. Mine was one of them and eventually got an interview, check flight and then a job :) On the other hand there were dudes who were in town for 2 weeks (TWO FKN WEEKS!!!) and got jobs because they knew someone. I knew no one in the state before I moved up.

If took me over half a year from moving to town to full time employment. I would not change a thing. From the start of the journey I have made life long friends and that in itself is worth the effort.

Good luck.

[J_I_Logan]

Hi Gear Up,

I'm in pretty much the same boat but leakier. 45, wife and 2 kids. CPL check ride coming up. 300 hours, Aerobatics, Tailwheel, CSU and Retractable. I was hoping to go up North right after my check ride and try to land something for the 2014 season. My goal is float/bush flying. No interest in airlines.

Please keep this thread current and if you hear of anything after you get established, PM me.

Good Luck and I've got the first round if we happen to run into each other. :ok:

[grrowler]

Would it be an option to try meatbombing or instructing in your local area on your blocks of days off? I'm a bit out of touch with the GA job market so not sure if an employer would be flexible enough to allow that sort of thing.

If your missus has a portable vocation and could get a job in one of the towns in the top end, I would have both of you putting out feelers now while you're working, then bite the bullet, rent out the house, and head north on adventure.

Sounds fun.:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday Gearup'.

39, no debt and house paid off! Well done, but therein may lie the problem.

I was 30 when in the similar situation to yourself, at least hours and career wise. A supportive wife (at the time), no kids, and the absolute arse out of our pants. Back then unless you had the mins for the airlines by 25, you weren't going anywhere. Times have however changed. My wife finally called its quits some years later and on my own with lots of networking, no real lifestyle, and a smattering of luck, I managed to crack a series of gradually improved GA jobs. 9 years later, right place at the right time, jagged the big one. First officer Regional airline, $32K PA!

I have since remarried, 2 children, house in a nice suburb, even an SUV in the driveway. Despite a good income, I doubt that we will ever have our house paid off. one of the prices I have paid. I absolutely love my job. I look back all those years and honestly feel it has become the career I always dreamt of. But as I have said, at a price. If I could do it all over again, the one thing I would have done is to kick it all off at 18!

The point I'm trying to make, is about reality. While never letting go of the dream is essential, you probably might have to ask yourself, at 39, was my dream, financially irrational as it is, strong enough to become a reality.

I hope I'm wrong, but you may have to admit, you might have missed the boat!

[Flying Bear]

I think that if the airlines is not "the be all and end all" for a pilot in this situation, and they are comfortable with accepting that the likelihood of becoming a millionaire in the airplane flying game is essentially zero, there is a potentially sound career in GA / regionals and that 39 is not too late to make a run at it - but it will require dedication, tenacity and humility. I gotta respect the courage, if the attempt is made!

There are some jobs in the GA sector paying well over 100K - and if it's doing the sort of flying you like, well, that's awesome.

Several GA operators are realising that stability in crewing is important and will try to look after their people in an effort to keep them. Uncommon it still is, but worth looking into. Mature pilots with the right training and approach to helping develop a business are a sought after commodity - and they are possibly somewhat more attractive if their logbook hours are behind the traditional airline "age vs experience" recruiting curve...

We'll see more of this in the years to come, I think.

[Metro man]

I've recently released a fifty year old with no previous jet time, turbo prop only, to line as an A320 F/O. He will probably upgrade to Captain in two to three years and is likely to stay until retirement, but could realistically still get a job elsewhere if he wanted to move on. A wide body command is unlikely, but you never know.

There are opportunities out there and at the moment Asia and the Middle East are the places to look.

[Cessna 180]

Hello, I got my first flying job at age 35 with about 250 hours and five years later am still enjoying G A with very little interest in airlines.

Have travelled all over Aus with work and seen many areas which I would not have had access too if not for the type of work we do, and we get paid to do it.
Just like one big five year holiday!

The downside is one practically live out of a suitcase

I am however interested in where "the some jobs in G A that pay over 100k" are.

Also from what I hear you are lucky to get close to that in a regional airline?

[DeltaT]

I am however interested in where "the some jobs in G A that pay over 100k" are.

Few months back Hardys wanted Check and Trainers, with that pay rate.

[Metro man]

The RFDS package must be around that figure by now. The gold standard of G/A,
with excellent maintenance, job security, pay and conditions.