Virgin (Australia) Embraer 190 avionics

[sunnySA]

Virgin (Australia) Embraer 190's haven't been able to fly some SIDs and STARs for the last 2.5 years. Apparently they aren't in the database, you'd think it would be an easy fix, can anyone explain what the specific problem is and what is being done to rectify the issue.
Is it just Australian airports that are affected?

[Capn Bloggs]

Virgin (Australia) Embraer 190's haven't been able to fly some SIDs and STARs for the last 2.5 years. Apparently they aren't in the database,
They don't do too bad a job tracking the RNAV STARs around here. Timing at the Feeder Fixes leaves a bit to be desired at times but tracking-wise, they don't seem to get lost more than the rest of us!

[flyboyike]

That's been my experience, too (I'm on the -170/175). We even have some approaches that aren't published.

[Capn Bloggs]

Apparently they aren't in the database
My info is that SIDs and STARs are in the Oz database.

[sunnySA]

Are you able to confirm that all SIDs for YSSY are included in the database, specifically:
RWY 34R ENTRA 3
RWY 34R MARUB 4 WOLLONGONG & RADAR
RWY 16L ABBEY 2
RWY 16L KEVIN 3 ENTRA & RADAR
RWY 16R KAMPI 1
RWY 16R DEENA 4 WOLLONGONG & KATOOMBA & RICHMOND
RWY 34L KATOOMBA 1
RWY 34L RICHMOND 2 RICHMOND & RADAR
RWY 07 FISHA 5 ENTRA & RADAR & WOLLONGONG

[Capn Bloggs]

Sorry Sunny, I'm not going to harrass my contact any further. Why not approach DJ Flt Ops? It could be memory capacity issue. The FMS does have limitations compared to real jets...

[FE Hoppy]

The FMS has plenty of memory.

[Broomstick Flier]

Could it be a naming problem?
I have a vague recollection that, in some cases, with multiple procedures with the same name plus a differente suffix, we had to sellect the STAR first and them on a second menu sellect the appropiate complement, via the transition fix name or even the first fix on the STAR.

That arrangement meant that at first glance you would think something is missing, when it was only hidden.

Has bit a while since I flew her, though

[fmcinop]

It's been almost 5 years since I flew one but I seem to recall all those SIDS and stars being in there. In fact I don't ever recall not being able to locate one. The data base was the same as the 737 as far as the major port go anyway.

Broomstick has the right idea. It was all in the order you selected the runways, SIDS and stars. Get this out of sequence and half the list would magically disappear.

[Snakecharma]

The Honeywell FMC in the ejet, which is integral to the epic system, has a bug with some coding associated with SIDS and stars.

The problem is NOT specific to Virgin, but all ejets.

Honeywell don't release epic updates very often and it often takes 3-4 years for a fix to be defined, tested, certified and delivered.

[InTransit]

Snakecharma has it spot on. All the SIDS and STARS appear in the database, there is just a list that we can't fly because of the coding issues and the "misbehaviour" it would cause.

For Sydney, there's 4 SIDs that are included in the list.

[High Energy]

@ Captn Bloggs. 'real jets...'? Why would the E-Jet not be a real jet? Mmo of .82, FL410 and it car carry 100 passengers in great comfort for 5hr flights. No performance limitations, fantastic ergonomics/economics and a joy to operate/be a passenger on. Far better than the 'real 737' I fly today...

So what's your defenition of a 'real jet'? :=

[sunnySA]

Honeywell don't release epic updates very often and it often takes 3-4 years for a fix to be defined, tested, certified and delivered.
All the SIDS and STARS appear in the database, there is just a list that we can't fly because of the coding issues and the "misbehaviour" it would cause.
Unbelievable that it could take 3-4 years for a fix.
Could I ask a couple of supplementary Q's?
1. when was the last release?
2. when is the next release scheduled?
3. does the release notes include a list of those things that are "fixed"?

[flyboyike]

I know we're doing a new load at the present time at my airline, I don't know about others, and yes, there was a rather lengthy list of things that were fixed.

[FE Hoppy]

I know we're doing a new load at the present time at my airline, I don't know about others, and yes, there was a rather lengthy list of things that were fixed.

Lol.

You should have seen load 11 to 13 and load 13 to 15!

[Capn Bloggs]

So what's your defenition of a 'real jet'?
One with Cost Index.

How's the VNAV work in the Jungle jets?

[InTransit]

You push a button :D

Anyway none of this "mine is bigger than yours"..let's focus on bagging something worthwhile...like the English cricket team!!! :O

[Capn Bloggs]

You push a button
Got it. Like these guys:

Embraer 190 - Airline Pilot Central Forums (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-schools-training/73241-embraer-190-a.html)

Sounds like real jet to me... :}

[FE Hoppy]

The people who struggle with VNAV simply don't understand it.

1100 ejets sold in about 10 years tells me it can't be too bad an aircraft!

[flyboyike]

Whatever is wrong with the -170/190 series (and there's plenty), it's not the VNAV. The box, BTW, does have a CI entry, in fact, even the CRJ box has that.

[Snakecharma]

VNAV on the embraer is great - you fly an ILS from 120 nm!

The problem is that some people think that your genitals shrink if you use the speed brake, and when the machine bugs back to 250 at about 15-16000 ft they intervene not realising that the machine might bug 250 but it knows that it won't slow down to 250 until about 10 grand.

People try and fly it like a 737 in our outfit and build level decel segments and wonder why it doesn't work properly. They dance over the guidance panel like they get points for button pushing, when in reality it will do a terrific job if they just left it alone to do its thing.