From airline to corporate jet pilot

[VH DSJ]

I'm thinking of making the transition from airline pilot to corporate jet. Apart from the obvious differences, like the adhoc nature of corporate jet flying, what other differences are there from those who have made the transition? I know, on the whole, the differences may depend on specific company operating procedures, but as I have little experience in this matter, I'd be interested in having an insight on how things are done generally in the corporate jet world. In particular;

1. I've been told that corporate pilots fly a lot less than airline pilots. Roughly, how many hours a month are people averaging out there?

2. Loading and balance - are there dispatchers or is the loadsheet task done by the pilots?

3. Ground handling, are the pilots generally organizing fuel from themselves, ie contacting the refuellers and paying the bills, or are there ground handlers that do this?

4. Catering, again are there ground handlers that do this?

As I said above, I realize that all this may be different for different companies, but I'm just after a general overview and how it is for the company that you fly for.

[Woody12]

Think twice before joining the corporate business. Be prepared in the best case to have a roster (which is just a paper thing because they will call you on off days anyway and if you say "no", they will be pissed off), a hire or fire attitude and fear management. Never be able to plan anything in your private life cause they will call you on the off days anyway. Even if you have a lot of experience, THEY DONT CARE. If you dont have the rating (thats the magic word for them), you simply dont get in. Investing in people is a dirty expression in aviation.Etc. How do i know? Well, this corporate guy had it and is now in the process of leaving aviation and applying for a job outside aviation. Im really looking forward to it.

Good luck and all the best if you enter this business.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

In general be prepared to do everything by yourself, i.e. have the contacts set up, the back ground knowledge of passengers likes and hates.

The fuel suppliers have CC that you should have, or a contract supplier. Depends on various factors, mostly related to cost.
Catering is normally the responsibility of the CC, but you should be able to advise her as to what might be the best supplier, cost v quality.

Load sheets, I have heard of them,,,, and sometimes completed. It is your responsibility.

Ground handling, again passenger or company preference, but you need to know who is in the market place.

Number of hours, again wildly variable, it might be 10 hours in month 1, and 100 in month 2...but expect an annual total of perhaps 500.

Hotels, again if lucky your choice.

Perhaps use your own credit card, but usually after a few months you should get a company credit card. There will never be enough credit remaining, so know the accountants home phone number.

Pay might be on time, but until you know the company, be prepared to expect up to 1 moths delay.

Hope you enjoy this mad world of corporate aviation....Glf

[Daygo]

VH DSJ

You've been mollycoddled for to long! My advice would be for you to stay in the airlines. I think you're going to have a shock in the Corporate world.

No offence, just saying.

Daygo

[Trim Stab]

Be prepared to do all your own flight planning - usually last thing at night after a long days flying for the early flight the next morning that has just been booked. Be prepared to have to use your own CC when the company card is maxed out. Be prepared to make outrageous safety decisions or face losing your job. Be prepared to lose your job at the drop of a hat the moment the aircraft owner decides to sell it. Even if he buys another aircraft, he probably won't keep you as crew as you won't be type-rated on his new plane.

You will fly typically 300-400 hours per year, but you will spend far more time waiting around at airports than on airlines, and you will get a lot less days off since you are effectively on standby 24/7.

[Don_Apron]

VH DSJ The first thing is to find someone who is willing to give you a job, if you already haven't one lined up.

Unless you are an exceptional individual, you will need someone to bankroll your type rating (endorsement as you say down there). There are plenty of corporate crews on the market who have recent type experience.

[His dudeness]

2 Guys, one FAR/JAR25 airplane, OPS mainly in EUR, EEUR, AFR, sometimes ASIA.

1. I've been told that corporate pilots fly a lot less than airline pilots. Roughly, how many hours a month are people averaging out there?

This year we will be doing 360hrs. We do an average of 1,75hrs/leg. We often have one or two overnights in one sortie. The guys in the next Hangar do 150hrs annually and stay almost exclusivly in EUR.

2. Loading and balance - are there dispatchers or is the loadsheet task done by the pilots?

I do all the flightplanning including W&B. The main difference for our ops is, that we know who/what (we don´t do any cargo) is flying. We don`t see LMCs often.

3. Ground handling, are the pilots generally organizing fuel from themselves, ie contacting the refuellers and paying the bills, or are there ground handlers that do this?

That depends on where we fly to, there are airports without handlers, there some which have mandatory handling. As for fuel, we have a fuel broker, we get info on the various suppliers and their prices, rest we do ourselves. We usually pay either by invoice or company creditcard. In AFR we get cash to work our way. I get all invoices to review and okay them to accounting.

4. Catering, again are there ground handlers that do this?

As before, sometimes yes, sometimes no. In Afrika we usually stay in the best hotels and take catering from them.

[B737-800W]

VHDSJ,

I have experience in both Airline and Business sector.

For me either you like it or hate it. Of course it depends from the operator/owner you are flying for.

Yes i have a standard roster and they do not change it, i can organize my personal life for months ahead, they do not call me on my days off and i am flying around 550 hrs/yr. no catering / loadsheet issues, as everything is organized by our offices.

Always it depends for who you are flying for.

I hope it will helps.

[what next]

Hi!

From what I see it very much depends if you fly for a private owner, corporate owner or public transport company (AOC holdrr). There are some large AOC bizjet companies who operate not very differently from airlines so coming from the airline environment this might be the best choice. I fly both for a corporate owner (very relaxed, you know all your passengers, no catering is required, most flying dates are fixed at least two weeks in advance, almost always back home in the evening) and a small AOC holding company. Not big enough for proper crew rostering (the most difficult thing to adapt to: Not knowing when your next flight will be and how long you will be away) but luckily big enough for it's own maintenance and OPS department with dispatchers and everything. Which means we only have to fly the aircraft (and tidy it up away from home) with everything else being taken care of.

Flying for a private owner can be heaven or hell, from what I see it is more often hell than heaven.

[fernytickles]

from what I see it is more often hell than heaven

I think you'll find the folks who are in the "heaven" job don't tend to go on forums to vent & grumble, so you just don't hear about them as much.

To the OP, I'm an airline to corporate convert, & absolutely loved it. If you are prepared to roll your sleeves up & get involved with all the areas you never normally see in the airlines, you'll do fine. Not every job is perfect, but when you do find one that is the right fit, you won't be sorry to took the step.

[mutt]

Load sheets, I have heard of them,,,, and sometimes completed. It is your responsibility. tut tut tut.... remember that this is a requirement for SAFA checks :):) For a small fee, redeemable in the Irish Village, i will send you an excel sheet that you can use for the Gulfstream.

In the corporate world its not just who you work FOR, but who you work WITH :)

Mutt

[Gulfstreamaviator]

naturally we complete all our paperwork....... in advance.... glf

[ksjc]

VH DSJ

It's not as bad as some here will want you to think. There are as many happy stories as sad. While never an airline pilot I have been a charter/corporate pilot for 25 years and it has been a great run. No regrets. Good money, good equipment, and good people. By the way, I have had 3 jobs in that 25 years and with each change a substantial step up.

The ones who gripe are usually the same ones with an attitude so it's no wonder they end up with the miserable jobs. Chin up and smile...it works.

To answer your question...300 hours and about 80 nights away from home per year.

[Klimax]

Left the serious airlines about 4 years ago, to go corporate/private.. No regrets.. Doing an average of 250H a year.. Prob. around 60-80 nights away per year.. All planning completed by in house ops department.. Doing our own load sheet (takes about 2 min on iPad).. Fuelling and handling by handlers.. Catering planned by CC.. Earning lots of hotel and airline points (something you don't do in the airlines) - to be used for your private travels..

Only real downside, compared with the airlines, would be not having ID-travel access and not having a roster a month in advance.

Good luck bro' :ok:

[deefer dog]

Airline and Corporate are as different as chalk and cheese, but then so too are Corporate flying for a private owner when compared with a Charter Operator..

One man's private owner can be a dream to work for, while another can be an :mad:hole, and similarly charter operators range from very good employers to outright thieves, cheats and cowboys.

My advise would be to stay where you are until you find a job in corporate that you have thoroughly checked out, vetted and are sure is an outfit you certainly want to join.

[Klimax]

deefer dog,

Good advice :ok:

[VH DSJ]

Thank you all for your advice and information. It sure helps in making my decision to move across to the world of corporate flying. A lot to consider as the two types of operations, as mentioned above, are chalk and cheese. I guess they key, as with any flying job, is to be lucky enough to end up with a good operator.

Cheers!

[surplus1]

An airline operates aircraft as its primary busines and employs professional airmen that fly airplanes for a living.

Corporations and individual aircraft owners employ chauffers whose vehicles happen to be airplanes .... which are used mostly to gratify the egos of CEOs and owners.

Yes, I've done both but went the opposite way from your plan, i.e., corporate to airline; best thing that ever happened to me. Would never have dreamed of going back, and I happened to drive for a large, multi-national corporation, with several aircraft, several pilots and a so-called "flight department". We were still just glorified chauffers.

Guess I have a bad attitude but I did not become a professional pilot because I wanted to drive somebody's limousine or carry his baggage and golf clubs, or be at his beck-and-call 24/7. Apart from that, it's hard to stay proficient when you only fly 200 - 400 hours in a year.

To each his own. I wish you luck.

[what next]

Hello!

All more or less correct (if that "chauffeur" stuff was really expected from you), but I object to:

it's hard to stay proficient when you only fly 200 - 400 hours in a year.

It is not the flying hours that make you proficient, but the number of sectors/take-offs/landings. Sitting in the middle of Europe, we rarely fly longer than one hour legs, which means that in my 300 - 350 hours I do almost 400 approaches and landings. At least twice as many as most longhaul pilots who fly straight and level for 1000 hours per year!

[surplus1]

What next .......
It is not the flying hours that make you proficient, but the number of sectors/take-offs/landings. Sitting in the middle of Europe, we rarely fly longer than one hour legs, which means that in my 300 - 350 hours I do almost 400 approaches and landings. At least twice as many as most longhaul pilots who fly straight and level for 1000 hours per year!

Kudos to you, sir. I couldn't agree more! Hours are not the appropriate criteria but rather what one does in those hours. Thanks for pointing that out .... I just got carried away as it were. :D

[Caveat: If one flys from NY to Paris or London to Dubai it takes just as much straight and level in a G550 as it does in a B787. Most folks flying around in large business aircraft are not flying one-hour sectors. That kind of short-haul flying is more suited to a Cessna or a Hawker].

Now about the chauffer stuff ..... I don't mean to disparage chauffers; a good one is worth his weight in gold, especially if you own a Rolls. It's just that I prefer to be a pilot. ;)

[Booglebox]

Most folks flying around in large business aircraft are not flying one-hour sectors
A reasonable assumption, but wrong. :}

[tommoutrie]

agreed, wrong assumption.

Average sector for me is about 2.5 hours in an aircraft capable of over 12. I am just a taxi driver and thats fine - I'm paid well and am home half the year. I like sorting the fuel and the catering and the permits and the flightplans and unblocking the sink and fannying about doing updates and not having a clue where I am going next and arguing with someone with gold braid as to whether I needed a visa before I entered his country and finding sneaky ways to circumvent a slot and haggling over parking costs and all the other aspects of corporate flying that make it interesting.

Have a think about why you want to go corporate. Its a funny old world with some very strange characters and some truly excellent colleagues and you meet very interesting passengers and have a lot of fun. I have passed through over 500 airports and stayed in countless cities which I constantly seem to find dodgy bars in and I think the variety is what keeps corporate pilots interested in the job. Most corporate jobs are shaky and easy to lose on the whim of an owners decision or the marginal economics of a small company but I can't imagine thats all that different to the airlines nowadays.

Come on over to the dark side...

[His dudeness]

Corporations and individual aircraft owners employ chauffers whose vehicles happen to be airplanes ....

Jupp, and whats wrond with that ? Do airlines think better of their crews ? Appaerntly, one of the biggest employers in Europe (MOL) they don´t...

which are used mostly to gratify the egos of CEOs and owners.

Maybe. Our airplane is mainly used to meet schedules that you could not do using airlines. The board members do fly more hours on the airlines than we fly with the business jet, cause they use em whereever it makes sense.

Last year we did a 9 day trip that would have lasted 13 days using airlines.

So, our aircraft is a time saving tool, nothing more, nothing less. BTW the only options they bought was the smallest airshow, a coffeemashine and a satphone, otherwise our cabin is just seats and tables.

[fernytickles]

Now about the chauffer stuff ..... I don't mean to disparage chauffers; a good one is worth his weight in gold, especially if you own a Rolls. It's just that I prefer to be a pilot.

Funny you should use the analogy of chauffeurs to describe corporate pilots. I use this analogy to explain to non-aviation folks what the main sections of commercial flying are.

Corporate pilot = airborne chauffeur
Part 135/charter pilot = airborne taxi driver
Airline pilot = airborne bus driver

[south coast]

Good descriptions ferny...

At least with the bus drivers they get concessions with the bus company to travel, where we have to pay in full for the bus!

Also bus companies tend to go out of business less often than private chauffeur companies.

Comes down to personal preference.

[tommoutrie]

I spent much of the day trying to get the drain working from our cool storage unit and getting as much of the mould out as possible without making the cabin stink before a possible flight at the weekend. A bottle of beer seems to have burst at some point and the heat and the moisture made for a smelly afternoon.

if you don't fancy getting the marigolds out and going home smelling like a sewer, it may not be for you..

[60N]

I started my career in the airlines (regional, f/o), then went on large business aircraft (private, f/o then cpt.) and now going back in the airlines (legacy, f/o).

I would put it this way - it depends on what kind of airline it is and what type of bizjet job it is.

In my view, a large bizjet job is usually better than low-cost or regional airline but would struggle to beat a good legacy carrier job (if you are young enough to make it up the sniority ladder).

It also down to your own personality - some people find it hard to work in a large organization and some people struggle to work one-on-one with the customer/owner.

Another thing - even if you find your dream corporate/private job, it will probably not last for the rest of your career, so at some point you will be looking for a job again and would take whatever is available and your lifestyle/pay might change for the worse.

On the other hand - once cpt. on a large bizjet, you would usually land a job as cpt. again, something that would never happen in a major airline.

I made my move, I believe I can always reverse it if unhappy.

Good luck.

[Trevor the lover]

I'm one in the heaven job.

Private owner - when he flies, I fly, when he doesn't, I don't.

About 200 hrs per year.

Regularly up to 3 months at home, no flying.

A weeks notice is short notice for us.

I do everything - all trip planning, etc. But hey, I have the time.

Great trips - maybe twice round the planet each year, other trips to nice resorts.

Treated well.

No holidays - they say we get enough time at home.

Yep - a rare job indeed.

Private corporate is definitely the way to go if you can.

[Moonwalker]

60N, sums it up really really well! :ok:

[surplus1]

Funny you should use the analogy of chauffeurs to describe corporate pilots. I use this analogy to explain to non-aviation folks what the main sections of commercial flying are.

Corporate pilot = airborne chauffeur
Part 135/charter pilot = airborne taxi driver
Airline pilot = airborne bus driver

LOL, I like that. With your premission I'd modify it just a bit:

Part 135/charter pilot = taxi driver
Fractional pilot = Limo driver
Corporate/owner pilot: Small bizjet = chauffer; Large bizjet = butler @ Downton Abbey.
Cargo pilot = Commercial Truck/Lorry driver
Regional/LCC airline pilot = abused bus driver
Real (legacy) airline pilot = airborne professional
BA, AF, LH, DAL (or equivalent) Captain = Nobility
International (legacy) airline captain = SKY GOD :cool:

[Energetic Pilot]

@ 60N

I almost agree. I did exactly the same way you did.
BUT, going back to corporate is almost impossible unless you have the suitable T/R. The companies are "hiring typeratings at the moment, not pilots".. at least in Europe

[NilDesperandum]

Loads of good info on this thread.

My advice would be to either go to an outfit where you already know somebody and they can recommend the company as being a good place to be. Or, do as much research as you can on the company you're interested in and certainly talk to at least one or two of the pilots.

I reckon the hours can vary between 200 - 600 a year.

For me personally, I like the variety of flying in my current corporate job, working closely with a small crew for 2 weeks at a time and having a steady roster. Though I have been with outfits where 'roster' didnt really feature in the dictionary !

ND